Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Mark Iliffe]

pressed concern. In point of
> fact, ESRI certainly has no real interest in open source. They are there to
> make as much money as possible and don’t mind playing rough to get it. That
> is not to suggest we cannot find ways to live and even work together.
> Though like you said and said well “This approach should make OSGeo more
> alert.” On another but related issue, I am still curious as to where ESRI
> and the OS community are on LiDAR format and compression as ^one^ open
> standard.
>
> -Patrick
>
>
>
> *From:* Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
> <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org>] *On Behalf Of *SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA
> *Sent:* Monday, February 26, 2018 7:03 AM
> *To:* María Arias de Reyna; André Cruvinel Resende
> *Cc:* OSGeo Discussions
> *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>
>
>
> Stefano, certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have expressed
> my concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto were sponsoring an organic
> food event. I don't think ESRI (or Google or IBM or others) approaches
> OSGeo innocently. This approach should make OSGeo more alert. And distrust
> their intentions. I remember that some years ago ESRI did not let gvSIG
> people even assist an ESRI conference. And now what has changed? That the
> FOSS4G movement is now "cool". So it makes these companies present
> themselves as OS ("we support the OS movement, we even sponsor their
> events", even "we are OS") and it is easier for them to enter certain
> places (later it is more difficult for them to leave). Maybe these
> companies should be asked something more than money in exchange for
> sponsoring the FOSS4G. And see how far they can get with that support to
> the FOSS4G movement...
>
> ​
>
> Sergio Acosta y Lara
>
> Departamento de Geomática
>
> Dirección Nacional de Topografía
>
> Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
>
> URUGUAY
>
> (598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330
>
> http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/
> --
>
> *De:* Discuss <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> en nombre de María Arias
> de Reyna <dela...@gmail.com>
> *Enviado:* lunes, 26 de febrero de 2018 4:34
> *Para:* André Cruvinel Resende
> *Cc:* OSGeo Discussions
> *Asunto:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I share your fears. But on the other hand, the list of sponsors is not
> closed for this year, I know for sure there are open source companies that
> are still pending to be shown there. GeoCat for example, being a small SME
> in comparison, will do the yearly effort to be a key sponsor proving that
> open source companies support FOSS4G events.
>
> You know (because I have been tiring on this subject) that I am completely
> against openwashing. And I will not be comfortable (and protest) if FOSS4G
> is used as a platform to promote closed source software. If I see a track
> full of selling closed architectures and software or some keynote talking
> about the greatness of closed software, I will be angry. But until now, we
> have had closed source companies sponsoring OSGeo and the "worst" thing we
> have had is some talk with a lot of openwashing that made us laugh. No big
> harm, but useful to reopen the debate and refresh terms.
>
> Look at it like this: If a closed source software company (and I won't say
> ESRI here, because we have more examples, don't focus only on one) wants to
> sponsor an FLOSS conference... look at it as a small fee for all the work
> they are reusing from our open side. Is it the only budget they spend on
> open source? Is it because they want to get close to the community and keep
> in touch with the state of the art software in the industry? Great! If
> anything, I would be more worried if they had no interest in FLOSS. This
> means we are an important piece of the industry and they want to be
> involved, either to -steal- research about our way of working, our ideas or
> whatever we have.
>
> Big companies with closed software history can't change from one day to
> another. Can you imagine Microsoft announcing Windows is going to be FLOSS?
> Would be insane and dangerous (if a code is going to be FLOSS, it should be
> FLOSS from the beginning to avoid big security holes in the open that come
> inherently on closed software). Let them get closer and, maybe in the
> future, they will become real FLOSS advocators.
>
> While they "only" sponsor and maybe promote the ¿little? job they do on
> FLOSS, I am fine. If they want to cross that line and start a conversation
> about how great closed software is, then we will have to stop them.
>
> Regards,
>
> María.
>
>
>

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Jeff McKenna]

Hi Stefano,

It is hard to add points here that aren't covered by the responses from 
all of the community leaders speaking here (even just considering 
everyone's backgrounds who are speaking here is quite fascinating, and a 
great sign of our passion for FOSS4G).


I only want to encourage this sharing, sharing your thoughts, asking 
questions and listening.  I think you asked a good question, that is 
quite healthy to discuss here with the community.


To be honest, when Venka, Markus and I first discussed creating a global 
"FOSS4G" event in 2004 we really had no idea where it would take us, or 
how it would go on to change the whole industry and spread across the 
whole globe.  But how did that happen?  Was it because we were so 
structured in what we required for a FOSS4G?  Opposite in fact: it 
spread because of our passion and openness: everyone from anywhere was 
welcome to share, laugh, learn, and be open.


I have personally moved my efforts from the global events to the smaller 
regional FOSS4G events, but the OSGeo Conference Committee is doing a 
good job in managing the FOSS4G-global process. Can things be 
improved/adapted as we all grow together?  Absolutely!  And part of that 
is talking and sharing ideas and concerns.


I find that when the topic of money comes up things become very 
delicate.  OSGeo Boards have been discussing sponsorship and revenue for 
a long time, and it is not easy as the OSGeo foundation needs money for 
infrastructure, but where should that revenue come from, should it come 
from a big global FOSS4G, or some other source?  Sponsorship is just one 
way (and we can always improve on those sponsorship requirements too).


Your question brings up more and more questions.  And I don't have the 
answers.  But talking about this is a good thing, as it shows that you 
and the community members care.


Please though know that you are not alone, you are big part of the 
passionate OSGeo community and your voice matters.


Thanks for this, I really appreciate hearing from you and everyone else.

Love,

-jeff







On 2018-02-25 10:26 AM, Stefano Campus wrote:

Hi,
I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell) 
but sometimes...


Thank you for your reply

Stefano Campus



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Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Seven (aka Arnulf)]

Folks,
we have seriously discussed this over and again to the point of boredom.
Still, I am happy that the topic comes up again and again because it
shows that people are alert. Good.

Having said that, we need to be as precise as possible in our terms and
definitions. Every now and then this blurs over.

Therefore allow me to give a quick primer: When we say "Open Source" and
"Free Software" we basically mean the same thing: Software that is
licensed under one of the 40+ officially respected licenses ranging from
the GNU GPL over BSD and MIT to the WTFPL.

Please refrain from using the term "Open Software" because it is
imprecise and only good to confuse people. Do not say "closed Software"
either because it may imply that it is more secure (like "locked" and
"safe"). Most evilly wrong: Never say "Commercial Software" because it
connotes that we cannot do business with Open Source and that commercial
enterprises cannot use it to make money which is both wrong and hurts
commercial development of Open Source businesses. The opposite to Free
and Open Source Software Licenses are proprietary licenses (and believe
me, proprietary vendors hate this term).

We should not make the impression that there is no business to be done
with Open Source software. People have to understand that we do not
charge fees for licenses and give the software away for free - but that
we do charge fees for developing and maintaining it, when we actually
"do" something. This can be maintenance, development, training,
SLA-contracts, implementing the newest standard or whatever else may
come up, you know how 95% of IT-revenue is done. Only a fraction of 5%
really come from proprietary licenses, not more!

Next: When we say "Open Source" and "Free Software" we also often "mean"
a lot of additional things. One very dear to OSGeo is "community based"
and "good governance". But this is not necessarily part of the license!
It is only our interpretation of how Open Source should be done (and I
totally believe in it).

We should also be clear that anybody can use and support Free and Open
Source Software for any purpose. This explicitly includes Esri and
Oracle and Microsoft and all the other proprietary vendors. And why not?

How do we deal with them at a conference? Like any other business. If
they like we even invite them to a plenary talk, get a versed speaker
from our trenches and let him or her publicly dissect all their
proprietary arguments. This gives Open Source a much better voice than
to just to ban them. They know we are so good at doing this that you
will even have a hard time getting anyone on a plenary at all.

We have also publicly invited proprietary brethren to participate in
performance shoot-outs and the result was invariable showing how good we
are. This is much cooler and shows much more self-efficacy than denying
entry to anybody.

Autodesk has tried to go Open Source and they basically failed. But they
funded the fledgling OSGeo Foundation and now look at where we are.

It appears that we are still not done educating folks who are still
stuck on proprietary stacks.

Lastly, how do we prevent an evil proprietary vendor from luring our
conference attendees into believing that proprietary software is better
than Open Source? Well, let them give a talk and if they say anything
stupid or even wrong about Open Source they will be ripped to little
pieces by the audience, believe me.


Thanks for listening.

Seven


Am 26.02.2018 um 17:03 schrieb Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX):
>
> Sergio,
>
> I for one am delighted to hear your well expressed concern. In point
> of fact, ESRI certainly has no real interest in open source. They are
> there to make as much money as possible and don’t mind playing rough
> to get it. That is not to suggest we cannot find ways to live and even
> work together. Though like you said and said well “This approach
> should make OSGeo more alert.” On another but related issue, I am
> still curious as to where ESRI and the OS community are on LiDAR
> format and compression as ^one^ open standard.
>
> -Patrick
>
>  
>
> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of
> *SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA
> *Sent:* Monday, February 26, 2018 7:03 AM
> *To:* María Arias de Reyna; André Cruvinel Resende
> *Cc:* OSGeo Discussions
> *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>
>  
>
> Stefano, certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have
> expressed my concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto were
> sponsoring an organic food event. I don't think ESRI (or Google or IBM
> or others) approaches OSGeo innocently. This approach should make
> OSGeo more alert. And distrust their intentions. I remember that some
> years ago ESRI did not let gvSIG people even assist 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX)]

Sergio,
I for one am delighted to hear your well expressed concern. In point of fact, 
ESRI certainly has no real interest in open source. They are there to make as 
much money as possible and don’t mind playing rough to get it. That is not to 
suggest we cannot find ways to live and even work together. Though like you 
said and said well “This approach should make OSGeo more alert.” On another but 
related issue, I am still curious as to where ESRI and the OS community are on 
LiDAR format and compression as ^one^ open standard.
-Patrick

From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of SERGIO 
ACOSTAYLARA
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 7:03 AM
To: María Arias de Reyna; André Cruvinel Resende
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship


Stefano, certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have expressed my 
concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto were sponsoring an organic food 
event. I don't think ESRI (or Google or IBM or others) approaches OSGeo 
innocently. This approach should make OSGeo more alert. And distrust their 
intentions. I remember that some years ago ESRI did not let gvSIG people even 
assist an ESRI conference. And now what has changed? That the FOSS4G movement 
is now "cool". So it makes these companies present themselves as OS ("we 
support the OS movement, we even sponsor their events", even "we are OS") and 
it is easier for them to enter certain places (later it is more difficult for 
them to leave). Maybe these companies should be asked something more than money 
in exchange for sponsoring the FOSS4G. And see how far they can get with that 
support to the FOSS4G movement...

​
Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY
(598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330
http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/

De: Discuss 
<discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org>> en 
nombre de María Arias de Reyna <dela...@gmail.com<mailto:dela...@gmail.com>>
Enviado: lunes, 26 de febrero de 2018 4:34
Para: André Cruvinel Resende
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

Hi,
I share your fears. But on the other hand, the list of sponsors is not closed 
for this year, I know for sure there are open source companies that are still 
pending to be shown there. GeoCat for example, being a small SME in comparison, 
will do the yearly effort to be a key sponsor proving that open source 
companies support FOSS4G events.
You know (because I have been tiring on this subject) that I am completely 
against openwashing. And I will not be comfortable (and protest) if FOSS4G is 
used as a platform to promote closed source software. If I see a track full of 
selling closed architectures and software or some keynote talking about the 
greatness of closed software, I will be angry. But until now, we have had 
closed source companies sponsoring OSGeo and the "worst" thing we have had is 
some talk with a lot of openwashing that made us laugh. No big harm, but useful 
to reopen the debate and refresh terms.
Look at it like this: If a closed source software company (and I won't say ESRI 
here, because we have more examples, don't focus only on one) wants to sponsor 
an FLOSS conference... look at it as a small fee for all the work they are 
reusing from our open side. Is it the only budget they spend on open source? Is 
it because they want to get close to the community and keep in touch with the 
state of the art software in the industry? Great! If anything, I would be more 
worried if they had no interest in FLOSS. This means we are an important piece 
of the industry and they want to be involved, either to -steal- research about 
our way of working, our ideas or whatever we have.
Big companies with closed software history can't change from one day to 
another. Can you imagine Microsoft announcing Windows is going to be FLOSS? 
Would be insane and dangerous (if a code is going to be FLOSS, it should be 
FLOSS from the beginning to avoid big security holes in the open that come 
inherently on closed software). Let them get closer and, maybe in the future, 
they will become real FLOSS advocators.
While they "only" sponsor and maybe promote the ¿little? job they do on FLOSS, 
I am fine. If they want to cross that line and start a conversation about how 
great closed software is, then we will have to stop them.
Regards,
María.


On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 2:49 AM, André Cruvinel Resende 
<andr...@gmail.com<mailto:andr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Folks,

We have had this fear in the past.

I remember when Autodesk decided to open Mapguide and some of us were furious 
and upset and worried about our community's influence and decisions.

It seems that in the end It was not that important and It does not kill 
Mapserver.

Good and op

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 4:02 PM, SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA <
sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy> wrote:

> Stefano, certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have expressed
> my concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto were sponsoring an organic
> food event. I don't think ESRI (or Google or IBM or others) approaches
> OSGeo innocently. This approach should make OSGeo more alert. And distrust
> their intentions. I remember that some years ago ESRI did not let gvSIG
> people even assist an ESRI conference. And now what has changed? That the
> FOSS4G movement is now "cool". So it makes these companies present
> themselves as OS ("we support the OS movement, we even sponsor their
> events", even "we are OS") and it is easier for them to enter certain
> places (later it is more difficult for them to leave). Maybe these
> companies should be asked something more than money in exchange for
> sponsoring the FOSS4G. And see how far they can get with that support to
> the FOSS4G movement...
>

That's a dangerous approach. How do you classify companies that "have to do
something more than money" from companies that don't? If a company have a
mix of open and closed software what happens? If a company contributes a
lot with open software but not on the GIS area, is it good or bad? And the
opposite?

I think we are all aware of the red lines they shouldn't cross. If you feel
more comfortable, we can even write those red lines to make them explicit.
But starting to treat them differently just because their nature... do you
want to ban people coming to our conferences based on... what? That's a
dangerous road. Even if we have suffered that in the past, I am not sure we
should degrade us to that point. We are the good ones here :)

But still, if you want to write the red lines/guidelines explicitly I will
be happy to review and contribute so we can propose them as something more
official. In fact, I realized there are no requirements about what a FOSS4G
should be besides a very abstract concept. Should we do it more explicit?
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA]

Stefano, certainly you are NOT the only one. In the past I have expressed my 
concern about this fact. It's as if Monsanto were sponsoring an organic food 
event. I don't think ESRI (or Google or IBM or others) approaches OSGeo 
innocently. This approach should make OSGeo more alert. And distrust their 
intentions. I remember that some years ago ESRI did not let gvSIG people even 
assist an ESRI conference. And now what has changed? That the FOSS4G movement 
is now "cool". So it makes these companies present themselves as OS ("we 
support the OS movement, we even sponsor their events", even "we are OS") and 
it is easier for them to enter certain places (later it is more difficult for 
them to leave). Maybe these companies should be asked something more than money 
in exchange for sponsoring the FOSS4G. And see how far they can get with that 
support to the FOSS4G movement...

​

Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY
(598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330
http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/

De: Discuss <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> en nombre de María Arias de Reyna 
<dela...@gmail.com>
Enviado: lunes, 26 de febrero de 2018 4:34
Para: André Cruvinel Resende
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

Hi,

I share your fears. But on the other hand, the list of sponsors is not closed 
for this year, I know for sure there are open source companies that are still 
pending to be shown there. GeoCat for example, being a small SME in comparison, 
will do the yearly effort to be a key sponsor proving that open source 
companies support FOSS4G events.

You know (because I have been tiring on this subject) that I am completely 
against openwashing. And I will not be comfortable (and protest) if FOSS4G is 
used as a platform to promote closed source software. If I see a track full of 
selling closed architectures and software or some keynote talking about the 
greatness of closed software, I will be angry. But until now, we have had 
closed source companies sponsoring OSGeo and the "worst" thing we have had is 
some talk with a lot of openwashing that made us laugh. No big harm, but useful 
to reopen the debate and refresh terms.

Look at it like this: If a closed source software company (and I won't say ESRI 
here, because we have more examples, don't focus only on one) wants to sponsor 
an FLOSS conference... look at it as a small fee for all the work they are 
reusing from our open side. Is it the only budget they spend on open source? Is 
it because they want to get close to the community and keep in touch with the 
state of the art software in the industry? Great! If anything, I would be more 
worried if they had no interest in FLOSS. This means we are an important piece 
of the industry and they want to be involved, either to -steal- research about 
our way of working, our ideas or whatever we have.

Big companies with closed software history can't change from one day to 
another. Can you imagine Microsoft announcing Windows is going to be FLOSS? 
Would be insane and dangerous (if a code is going to be FLOSS, it should be 
FLOSS from the beginning to avoid big security holes in the open that come 
inherently on closed software). Let them get closer and, maybe in the future, 
they will become real FLOSS advocators.

While they "only" sponsor and maybe promote the ¿little? job they do on FLOSS, 
I am fine. If they want to cross that line and start a conversation about how 
great closed software is, then we will have to stop them.

Regards,
María.


On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 2:49 AM, André Cruvinel Resende 
<andr...@gmail.com<mailto:andr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Folks,

We have had this fear in the past.

I remember when Autodesk decided to open Mapguide and some of us were furious 
and upset and worried about our community's influence and decisions.

It seems that in the end It was not that important and It does not kill 
Mapserver.

Good and open week. (And mind too)

https://mapguide.osgeo.org/about.html.

André Cruvinel.

Em 25 de fev de 2018 7:11 PM, "Jody Garnett" 
<jody.garn...@gmail.com<mailto:jody.garn...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
I do not think of it as just an emotive response - some business models do not 
match our ideals as an organization (requirement to purchase a platform 
subscription for services, or an API key for data use). While some 
organizations match our ideals, but I do not like the ethics (dumping software 
to opensource as part of an exit strategy).

Both these approaches use open source as a tool, but to enable behaviour that 
is not necessarily collaborative. The free-and-open end of the open source pool 
is working on this, but it is a big pool and we want to help everyone.

I see our role as changing the the playing field over time so that these 
busi

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[María Arias de Reyna]

Hi,

I share your fears. But on the other hand, the list of sponsors is not
closed for this year, I know for sure there are open source companies that
are still pending to be shown there. GeoCat for example, being a small SME
in comparison, will do the yearly effort to be a key sponsor proving that
open source companies support FOSS4G events.

You know (because I have been tiring on this subject) that I am completely
against openwashing. And I will not be comfortable (and protest) if FOSS4G
is used as a platform to promote closed source software. If I see a track
full of selling closed architectures and software or some keynote talking
about the greatness of closed software, I will be angry. But until now, we
have had closed source companies sponsoring OSGeo and the "worst" thing we
have had is some talk with a lot of openwashing that made us laugh. No big
harm, but useful to reopen the debate and refresh terms.

Look at it like this: If a closed source software company (and I won't say
ESRI here, because we have more examples, don't focus only on one) wants to
sponsor an FLOSS conference... look at it as a small fee for all the work
they are reusing from our open side. Is it the only budget they spend on
open source? Is it because they want to get close to the community and keep
in touch with the state of the art software in the industry? Great! If
anything, I would be more worried if they had no interest in FLOSS. This
means we are an important piece of the industry and they want to be
involved, either to -steal- research about our way of working, our ideas or
whatever we have.

Big companies with closed software history can't change from one day to
another. Can you imagine Microsoft announcing Windows is going to be FLOSS?
Would be insane and dangerous (if a code is going to be FLOSS, it should be
FLOSS from the beginning to avoid big security holes in the open that come
inherently on closed software). Let them get closer and, maybe in the
future, they will become real FLOSS advocators.

While they "only" sponsor and maybe promote the ¿little? job they do on
FLOSS, I am fine. If they want to cross that line and start a conversation
about how great closed software is, then we will have to stop them.

Regards,
María.


On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 2:49 AM, André Cruvinel Resende 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> We have had this fear in the past.
>
> I remember when Autodesk decided to open Mapguide and some of us were
> furious and upset and worried about our community's influence and decisions.
>
> It seems that in the end It was not that important and It does not kill
> Mapserver.
>
> Good and open week. (And mind too)
>
> https://mapguide.osgeo.org/about.html.
>
> André Cruvinel.
>
> Em 25 de fev de 2018 7:11 PM, "Jody Garnett" 
> escreveu:
>
> I do not think of it as just an emotive response - some business models do
> not match our ideals as an organization (requirement to purchase a platform
> subscription for services, or an API key for data use). While some
> organizations match our ideals, but I do not like the ethics (dumping
> software to opensource as part of an exit strategy).
>
> Both these approaches use open source as a tool, but to enable behaviour
> that is not necessarily collaborative. The free-and-open end of the open
> source pool is working on this, but it is a big pool and we want to help
> everyone.
>
> I see our role as changing the the playing field over time so that these
> business models do perform as well as the ones that embrace, contribute to
> and leverage open source.
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 1:59 PM  wrote:
>
>> Indeed GDAL/OGR uses some ESRI code, example:
>>
>> https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b4
>> 34b01ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/JPEG_band.cpp#L21
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don’t want anyone with competing products, it’ll be a short list,
>> and somewhat difficult to justify (e.g. OSGeo has lots of software that is
>> mostly developed and tested against Oracle’s Java, but Oracle Spatial is an
>> alternative to PostGIS). If you don’t want anyone who does patents, it’ll
>> exclude most of the big IT companies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this just an emotive response?
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[André Cruvinel Resende]

Folks,

We have had this fear in the past.

I remember when Autodesk decided to open Mapguide and some of us were
furious and upset and worried about our community's influence and decisions.

It seems that in the end It was not that important and It does not kill
Mapserver.

Good and open week. (And mind too)

https://mapguide.osgeo.org/about.html.

André Cruvinel.

Em 25 de fev de 2018 7:11 PM, "Jody Garnett" 
escreveu:

I do not think of it as just an emotive response - some business models do
not match our ideals as an organization (requirement to purchase a platform
subscription for services, or an API key for data use). While some
organizations match our ideals, but I do not like the ethics (dumping
software to opensource as part of an exit strategy).

Both these approaches use open source as a tool, but to enable behaviour
that is not necessarily collaborative. The free-and-open end of the open
source pool is working on this, but it is a big pool and we want to help
everyone.

I see our role as changing the the playing field over time so that these
business models do perform as well as the ones that embrace, contribute to
and leverage open source.
On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 1:59 PM  wrote:

> Indeed GDAL/OGR uses some ESRI code, example:
>
> https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b434b01
> ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/JPEG_band.cpp#L21
>
>
>
> If you don’t want anyone with competing products, it’ll be a short list,
> and somewhat difficult to justify (e.g. OSGeo has lots of software that is
> mostly developed and tested against Oracle’s Java, but Oracle Spatial is an
> alternative to PostGIS). If you don’t want anyone who does patents, it’ll
> exclude most of the big IT companies.
>
>
>
> Is this just an emotive response?
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> ___
>
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Jody Garnett]

I do not think of it as just an emotive response - some business models do
not match our ideals as an organization (requirement to purchase a platform
subscription for services, or an API key for data use). While some
organizations match our ideals, but I do not like the ethics (dumping
software to opensource as part of an exit strategy).

Both these approaches use open source as a tool, but to enable behaviour
that is not necessarily collaborative. The free-and-open end of the open
source pool is working on this, but it is a big pool and we want to help
everyone.

I see our role as changing the the playing field over time so that these
business models do perform as well as the ones that embrace, contribute to
and leverage open source.
On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 1:59 PM  wrote:

> Indeed GDAL/OGR uses some ESRI code, example:
>
>
> https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b434b01ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/JPEG_band.cpp#L21
>
>
>
> If you don’t want anyone with competing products, it’ll be a short list,
> and somewhat difficult to justify (e.g. OSGeo has lots of software that is
> mostly developed and tested against Oracle’s Java, but Oracle Spatial is an
> alternative to PostGIS). If you don’t want anyone who does patents, it’ll
> exclude most of the big IT companies.
>
>
>
> Is this just an emotive response?
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[bradh]

Indeed GDAL/OGR uses some ESRI code, example:

https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/a1df7cb9df2fe3cbcfac974b434b01ac6a1946e5/gdal/frmts/mrf/JPEG_band.cpp#L21

 

If you don’t want anyone with competing products, it’ll be a short list, and 
somewhat difficult to justify (e.g. OSGeo has lots of software that is mostly 
developed and tested against Oracle’s Java, but Oracle Spatial is an 
alternative to PostGIS). If you don’t want anyone who does patents, it’ll 
exclude most of the big IT companies.

 

Is this just an emotive response?

 

Brad

 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Hans Gregers Hedegaard Petersen]

I did write that in a peculiar way didn’t I. :-)

My point was merely, that while one can take a negative stance on corp
sponsorship, it can also be seen as a positive kind of attention. The
perspective changes a lot depending on a closed or open mindset.

I personally find it a good thing, that corporations sponsor projects they
use, and have worked hard for them to do so. The system works imho because
some put in money, some put in time, and others put in a bit of both.
Without conference sponsors the tickets would be even more expensive (and
without the gift of time, many of our projects wouldn’t live a year).


Cheers,

Greg


søn. 25. feb. 2018 kl. 21.56 skrev Jody Garnett :

> I am not sure we need the endorsement of others to be taken as serious -
> we are being taken serious because we are serious :)
>
> We are also fun, motivated, and out to win.
>
> But our “win” includes everyone :)
>
>
> --

*Hans Gregers Hedegaard Petersen*
Partner, Seniorkonsulent
greg...@septima.dk
--
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Stefano Campus]

dear barry,
please help me to better understand your position.
If ESRI is "an Open Source company" as you say, if one submits a paper to
FOSS4G 2018 about an application made with ArcGIS and some tools they
publish in their github repo, will  this paper be accepted by editors and
reviewers?

I think that free and open source is not only a business vision but I think
and I believe it is a way to improve our world sharing knowledge.
When I try to explain my vision of FOSS4G to someone who doesn't know
anything about it, I also use this word: "ethics".

I don't want to convince anyone, this is not the point, but I'm just trying
to understand what are the positions of community in OSGeo and especially
the position of its governance.

best regards and ciao

stefano

2018-02-25 15:41 GMT+01:00 Barry Rowlingson :

> They've sponsored every FOSS4G Global since about 2010, except for 2015
> (South Korea).
>
> And why not? They are an Open Source company:
> http://www.esri.com/software/open/open-source
>
> They use a *lot* of open source software, so its good that they give back.
> It does not earn them any power over the conference organisers and nobody
> is forced to buy ArcGIS licenses.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Stefano Campus  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
>> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
>> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
>> but sometimes...
>>
>> Thank you for your reply
>>
>> Stefano Campus
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Ian Turton]

On 25 February 2018 at 19:16, Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX) <
patrick.ho...@nasa.gov> wrote:

> +1 (for ‘not the only one’)
>
> It is good to receive support, I am not contesting that.
>
> But this issue seems worthy of considered discussion.
>

ESRI payed for (I understand from Frank) some of the initial development of
GDAL/OGR, with out which much of our software would be much more difficult
to implement.

While I am happy to attack ESRI for thier bussiness methods (of the crack
dealer type) I see no problem with taking thier money to sponsor our
events, it's even bettet if they come and talk with us, show us what they
have been upto in the open source world and for them to see what we've been
up to. We also take money from other "evil" empires like IBM, Google, etc
with out any worries that I can recall.

Plus ESRI have those nicely ironic dinosaur stickers.


> Even OGC receives considerable funding from ESRI, further complicating the
> issue.
>

Why would the OGC not have ESRI as a member? Its an industry standards
consortium.  If I have an issue it is that ESRI, ESRI UK, ESRI Canada etc
are all voting memembers.

Ian
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Jody Garnett]

I am not sure we need the endorsement of others to be taken as serious - we
are being taken serious because we are serious :)

We are also fun, motivated, and out to win.

But our “win” includes everyone :)
On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:59 AM Hans Gregers Hedegaard Petersen <
greg...@septima.dk> wrote:

> +1 to Jodys point of view.
>
> If you do not want to end up preaching for the choir, then you have to
> welcome others. I would also like to urge people to consider that
> “contribution” has many facets.
>
> Having big industry sponsor an event or codecamp, could also be seen as
> labelling our conferences and software as serious.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
> søn. 25. feb. 2018 kl. 19.45 skrev Jody Garnett :
>
>> OSGeo is an advocate for open source and encourage all organizations to
>> contribute.
>>
>> Personally I am happy to see ESRI participating, and have watched their
>> open source game improve with the java geometry library first being
>> released, and perhaps now accepting contributions.
>>
>> There is always work to be done and open source culture is a long game. I
>> look forward to the next steps when we can focus more on a vendor neutral
>> playground for collaboration (such as software foundations).
>>
>> I was also sad to see ESRI Europe drop out of the last day of our FOSS4G
>> Europe event, we can and should be more welcoming in keeping with our
>> vision.
>>
>> Empowering everyone with open source requires a big heart!
>>
> --
>
> *Hans Gregers Hedegaard Petersen*
> Partner, Seniorkonsulent
> greg...@septima.dk
> --
> Septima P/S
> Frederiksberggade 19, 2
> .
> 1459 København K
> www.septima.dk
> Tlf: +45 7230 0672
> Direkte: +45 9132 6945
> Cvr: 34900841
>
> --
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Hans Gregers Hedegaard Petersen]

+1 to Jodys point of view.

If you do not want to end up preaching for the choir, then you have to
welcome others. I would also like to urge people to consider that
“contribution” has many facets.

Having big industry sponsor an event or codecamp, could also be seen as
labelling our conferences and software as serious.

Best regards,

Greg


søn. 25. feb. 2018 kl. 19.45 skrev Jody Garnett :

> OSGeo is an advocate for open source and encourage all organizations to
> contribute.
>
> Personally I am happy to see ESRI participating, and have watched their
> open source game improve with the java geometry library first being
> released, and perhaps now accepting contributions.
>
> There is always work to be done and open source culture is a long game. I
> look forward to the next steps when we can focus more on a vendor neutral
> playground for collaboration (such as software foundations).
>
> I was also sad to see ESRI Europe drop out of the last day of our FOSS4G
> Europe event, we can and should be more welcoming in keeping with our
> vision.
>
> Empowering everyone with open source requires a big heart!
>
-- 

*Hans Gregers Hedegaard Petersen*
Partner, Seniorkonsulent
greg...@septima.dk
--
Septima P/S
Frederiksberggade 19, 2.
1459 København K
www.septima.dk
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Massimiliano Cannata]

I think it depends on how you see Open Source But Stefano you're not
the only one...

Maxi

Il 25 feb 2018 19:49, "Luigi Pirelli"  ha scritto:

> Not the only one... Sorry
>
> On Sunday, 25 February 2018, Dan Little  wrote:
>
>> You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
>>> This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
>>> But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
>>> not exactly 'normal'?
>>>
>>> Stefano
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <
>>> maria.brove...@polimi.it> ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous
>>> years (see the websites of the conferences).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Maria
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A course worth your attending:
>>> http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natu
>>> ral-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005
>>>
>>> Have a good reading:
>>>
>>> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>> *Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
>>> Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
>>> Politecnico di Milano
>>>
>>> P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy
>>> 
>>> )
>>>
>>> Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
>>> <+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.brovel
>>> l...@polimi.it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano
>>> Campus 
>>> *Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
>>> *A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> *Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
>>> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
>>> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
>>> but sometimes...
>>>
>>> Thank you for your reply
>>>
>>> Stefano Campus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Luigi Pirelli
>
> 
> **
> * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luigipirelli
> * Stackexchange: http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/19667/luigi-pirelli
> * GitHub: https://github.com/luipir
> * Mastering QGIS 2nd Edition:
> * https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-
> intelligence/mastering-qgis-second-edition
> * Hire me: http://goo.gl/BYRQKg
> 
> **
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX)]

+1 (for ‘not the only one’)
It is good to receive support, I am not contesting that.
But this issue seems worthy of considered discussion.
Even OGC receives considerable funding from ESRI, further complicating the 
issue.
[sigh]
-Patrick

P.S.: Curious, was the Lidar compression ‘open standard’ issue ever resolved?
https://rapidlasso.com/2015/12/19/the-darc-force-awakens-esri-escalates-lidar-format-war/

From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Luigi 
Pirelli
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 10:50 AM
To: Dan Little
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

Not the only one... Sorry

On Sunday, 25 February 2018, Dan Little 
<theduckylit...@gmail.com<mailto:theduckylit...@gmail.com>> wrote:
You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.

On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus" 
<skam...@gmail.com<mailto:skam...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
But apart from that, am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is not 
exactly 'normal'?

Stefano



Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" 
<maria.brove...@polimi.it<mailto:maria.brove...@polimi.it>> ha scritto:

Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous years 
(see the websites of the conferences).

Best,

Maria



A course worth your attending:
http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natural-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005


Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano 
(Italy<https://maps.google.com/?q=P.zza+Leonardo+da+Vinci,+32+-+Building+3+-+20133+Milano+(Italy=gmail=g>)
Tel. +39-02-23996242<tel:+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. 
+39-328-0023867<tel:+39%20328%20002%203867>,  
maria.brove...@polimi.it<mailto:maria.brove...@polimi.it>


Da: Discuss 
<discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org>> per 
conto di Stefano Campus <skam...@gmail.com<mailto:skam...@gmail.com>>
Inviato: domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
A: Discuss@lists.osgeo.org<mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org>
Oggetto: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

Hi,
I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell) but 
sometimes...

Thank you for your reply

Stefano Campus


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**
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* GitHub: https://github.com/luipir
* Mastering QGIS 2nd Edition:
* 
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Luigi Pirelli]

Not the only one... Sorry

On Sunday, 25 February 2018, Dan Little  wrote:

> You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.
>
> On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
>> This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
>> But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
>> not exactly 'normal'?
>>
>> Stefano
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <
>> maria.brove...@polimi.it> ha scritto:
>>
>> Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous
>> years (see the websites of the conferences).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Maria
>>
>>
>>
>> A course worth your attending:
>> http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natu
>> ral-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005
>>
>> Have a good reading:
>>
>> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf
>>
>>
>> **
>> *Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
>> Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
>> Politecnico di Milano
>>
>> P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy
>> 
>> )
>>
>> Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
>> <+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.brovel
>> l...@polimi.it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano
>> Campus 
>> *Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
>> *A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> *Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>>
>> Hi,
>> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
>> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
>> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
>> but sometimes...
>>
>> Thank you for your reply
>>
>> Stefano Campus
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>

-- 
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**
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Jody Garnett]

OSGeo is an advocate for open source and encourage all organizations to
contribute.

Personally I am happy to see ESRI participating, and have watched their
open source game improve with the java geometry library first being
released, and perhaps now accepting contributions.

There is always work to be done and open source culture is a long game. I
look forward to the next steps when we can focus more on a vendor neutral
playground for collaboration (such as software foundations).

I was also sad to see ESRI Europe drop out of the last day of our FOSS4G
Europe event, we can and should be more welcoming in keeping with our
vision.

Empowering everyone with open source requires a big heart!

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Stefano Campus  wrote:

> Hi,
> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
> but sometimes...
>
> Thank you for your reply
>
> Stefano Campus
> ___
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Maria Antonia Brovelli]

I share the same postion of Stefano, Sandro and Andrea. And, above all, in my 
opinion, the discussion on this list has to be respectful.


About the specific topic, organising a survey among the Charter Members could 
be interesting. In this way we have a clearer picture of our community (I don't 
have it at the moment).


Thanks

Maria


A course worth your attending:
http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natural-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005


Have a good reading:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf



Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  <mailto:maria.brove...@polimi.it> 
maria.brove...@polimi.it








Da: Discuss <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> per conto di Sandro Santilli 
<s...@kbt.io>
Inviato: domenica 25 febbraio 2018 16:18
A: Dan Little
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 08:54:32AM -0600, Dan Little wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus" <skam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
> > not exactly 'normal'?
>
> You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.

No, he's not the only one. I also don't like to see OSGeo advertising
brands of companies having a mission in hiding source code of the
software they publish and preventing others to implement same
functionality via patents.

--strk;

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Andrea Aime]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Dan Little 
wrote:

> You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.
>

I also feel a bit uncomfortable having ESRI sponsor the conference, but I
can see the other side as well.
You should probably run statistics before stating something as harshly as
you did, that's not the OSGeo way.

Regards
Andrea

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Stefano Campus]

 thanks for the info!

s.

Il 25/Feb/2018 04:02 PM, "Dan Little"  ha scritto:

> IBM, Google, and I believe even Microsoft have all sponsored various forms
> of the conference over the years. There are commits in repos from ESRI
> employees. Python, gdal, and other projects are used directly in ESRI
> software.  Sponsoring a conference is a pretty small, but visible way, to
> show support.
>
> On Feb 25, 2018 08:57, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:
>
>> Obviously, as I said before, this is my perspective and I am ready to
>> hear different opinions and to change mine.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> s.
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:54 PM, "Dan Little"  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>> You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
>>> This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
>>> But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
>>> not exactly 'normal'?
>>>
>>> Stefano
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <
>>> maria.brove...@polimi.it> ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous
>>> years (see the websites of the conferences).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Maria
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A course worth your attending:
>>> http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natu
>>> ral-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005
>>>
>>> Have a good reading:
>>>
>>> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>> *Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
>>> Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
>>> Politecnico di Milano
>>>
>>> P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy
>>> 
>>> )
>>>
>>> Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
>>> <+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.brovel
>>> l...@polimi.it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano
>>> Campus 
>>> *Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
>>> *A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> *Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
>>> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
>>> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
>>> but sometimes...
>>>
>>> Thank you for your reply
>>>
>>> Stefano Campus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Dan Little]

IBM, Google, and I believe even Microsoft have all sponsored various forms
of the conference over the years. There are commits in repos from ESRI
employees. Python, gdal, and other projects are used directly in ESRI
software.  Sponsoring a conference is a pretty small, but visible way, to
show support.

On Feb 25, 2018 08:57, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:

> Obviously, as I said before, this is my perspective and I am ready to hear
> different opinions and to change mine.
>
> Thank you
>
> s.
>
>
>
> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:54 PM, "Dan Little"  ha
> scritto:
>
> You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.
>
> On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
>> This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
>> But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
>> not exactly 'normal'?
>>
>> Stefano
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <
>> maria.brove...@polimi.it> ha scritto:
>>
>> Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous
>> years (see the websites of the conferences).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Maria
>>
>>
>>
>> A course worth your attending:
>> http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natu
>> ral-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005
>>
>> Have a good reading:
>>
>> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf
>>
>>
>> **
>> *Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
>> Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
>> Politecnico di Milano
>>
>> P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy
>> 
>> )
>>
>> Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
>> <+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.brovel
>> l...@polimi.it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano
>> Campus 
>> *Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
>> *A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> *Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>>
>> Hi,
>> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
>> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
>> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
>> but sometimes...
>>
>> Thank you for your reply
>>
>> Stefano Campus
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Stefano Campus]

Obviously, as I said before, this is my perspective and I am ready to hear
different opinions and to change mine.

Thank you

s.



Il 25/Feb/2018 03:54 PM, "Dan Little"  ha scritto:

You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.

On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:

> Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
> This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
> But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
> not exactly 'normal'?
>
> Stefano
>
>
>
> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <
> maria.brove...@polimi.it> ha scritto:
>
> Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous
> years (see the websites of the conferences).
>
> Best,
>
> Maria
>
>
>
> A course worth your attending:
> http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natu
> ral-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005
>
> Have a good reading:
>
> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf
>
>
> **
> *Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
> Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
> Politecnico di Milano
>
> P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy
> 
> )
>
> Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
> <+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.brovel
> l...@polimi.it
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano
> Campus 
> *Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
> *A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> *Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>
> Hi,
> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
> but sometimes...
>
> Thank you for your reply
>
> Stefano Campus
>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Dan Little]

You are the only one, and serving a very limited perspective.

On Feb 25, 2018 08:43, "Stefano Campus"  wrote:

> Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
> This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
> But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
> not exactly 'normal'?
>
> Stefano
>
>
>
> Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <
> maria.brove...@polimi.it> ha scritto:
>
> Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous
> years (see the websites of the conferences).
>
> Best,
>
> Maria
>
>
>
> A course worth your attending:
> http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natu
> ral-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005
>
> Have a good reading:
>
> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf
>
>
> **
> *Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
> Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
> Politecnico di Milano
>
> P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy
> 
> )
>
> Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
> <+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.brovel
> l...@polimi.it
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano
> Campus 
> *Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
> *A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> *Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship
>
> Hi,
> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
> but sometimes...
>
> Thank you for your reply
>
> Stefano Campus
>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Stefano Campus]

Thank you for your quick reply,  Maria.
This is certainly my mistake, since I had not noticed it.
But apart from that,  am I the only one feeling that this sponsorship is
not exactly 'normal'?

Stefano



Il 25/Feb/2018 03:32 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" 
ha scritto:

Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous years
(see the websites of the conferences).

Best,

Maria



A course worth your attending:
http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-
natural-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005

Have a good reading:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf


**
*Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy

)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 <+39%2002%202399%206242> - Mob. +39-328-0023867
<+39%20328%20002%203867>,   maria.
brove...@polimi.it








--
*Da:* Discuss  per conto di Stefano Campus

*Inviato:* domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
*A:* Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
*Oggetto:* [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

Hi,
I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
but sometimes...

Thank you for your reply

Stefano Campus
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Barry Rowlingson]

They've sponsored every FOSS4G Global since about 2010, except for 2015
(South Korea).

And why not? They are an Open Source company:
http://www.esri.com/software/open/open-source

They use a *lot* of open source software, so its good that they give back.
It does not earn them any power over the conference organisers and nobody
is forced to buy ArcGIS licenses.

Barry


On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Stefano Campus  wrote:

> Hi,
> I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
> Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
> Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell)
> but sometimes...
>
> Thank you for your reply
>
> Stefano Campus
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

[Maria Antonia Brovelli]

Dear Stefano, this is not a novelty. It happened also in the previous years 
(see the websites of the conferences).

Best,

Maria


A course worth your attending:
http://sws.cept.ac.in/course-detail/geodata-and-gis-for-natural-and-built-environment-management-S18FT005


Have a good reading:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-319-65633-5.pdf



Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,   
maria.brove...@polimi.it








Da: Discuss  per conto di Stefano Campus 

Inviato: domenica 25 febbraio 2018 15:26
A: Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Oggetto: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2018 sponsorship

Hi,
I see ESRI is one of the sponsor of FOSS4G 2018.
Do the OSGeo Board and Local Committee think it is appropriate?
Our Romans ancestors used to say: 'Pecunia non olet' (money don't smell) but 
sometimes...

Thank you for your reply

Stefano Campus
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