Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
I just want to add for those saying these two products are for different markets - I for one am looking at both for the exact some use - audio playing detached from my computer feeding a separate DAC. I'm likely pulling the tigger on the SB3 sale through the end of the day, but the Apple TV is waying in on my decision. I find it strange that some here are saying there is no crossover. And as some has mentioned, although Slim Devices is much better, Apple does support open standards and deserves some credit. AAC isn't Apples WMA, MP3 support is there (and as everyone knows isn't open source) and we all only need one lossless (and converting between them is easy). But the white sale is pulling me. ;) -- blessingx SB3 + Lavry DA1Ø + Woo Audio 6 Ultras 25ØØ/Senn HD65Ø/58Ø/595 blessingx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11754 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
I found this article interesting: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=406 Anybody seen or heard of anybody hacking the AppleTV to run Slimserver? -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
Being techie, it's easy to say certain things, like I configured my SS to all the latest plugins and such. I run FLAC and also have all my FLAC files replaygained. I have an old 60's console that I've installed a new power amp in. The console has old Altec speakers in it which sound tremendous. I have a 90's Sony Hi-Fi pre-amp (I know that sounds like an oxy-moron, but it's a great pre-amp) with the SB on top of it. But it pays off. So who cares right? Everyone that comes over to my place can't believe what a nice setup it is. The whole package, the ease of playing music...the ease at which podcasts or whatever can be played...the consistency of volume. It really is the whole package that counts. Well it took a lot of time to get all that done, but now I get to hear premium sound And with premium convenience! Plug'n'play is nice, sure, but what I find is that my system is spot on. All that work impresses others. Will they be that impressed with their Apple TV install? Probably not. The same thing goes for Rockbox, my portable runs Rockbox installed in my car and everything just works!!! Not only does it work, but it also is works in a smooth/silky sorta way. I hear people play their ipods in their cars and it runs like a piece of crap. The inconsistant sound levels...dodgy encoding...lack of featurs, etc. just don't allow for conveniences that Rockbox allows. It's plug'n'play, but that's the very aspect that's ruined the expierence. It's so easy, anyone can screw it up!!! Bottom line - quality is in the details! You can have plug'n'play, but the ability to have seemless, flowing music through my Hi-fi is something I think Apple will be hard pressed to do. Does SS have improvements needed? Sure, but we'll get there! -- verbatone verbatone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3556 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
Previously, I was running three Squeezeboxes (AIFF streaming) and
EyeHome for video (MPEG2 from .vob files).
Using Airport Express, the most I could get from the system
(understandably) was either three SBs or 1 SB and the EyeHome.
AppleTV has replaced the EyeHome. Much better. In terms of quality
though, the DAC chip is nowhere near the calibre of the SBs. Moreover,
as no digital display exists on the AppleTV, the HDTV must be left on
(thus interference).
So, for basic sound quality, AppleTV is no match for SB. I believe the
AppleTV has much more potential than people believe. Also, in terms of
streaming, using the new Airport Extreme (802.11n), I'm easily
obtaining three SBs AND AppleTV in full H.264 quality ('over-encoded'
at 6000k to try and maintain as much quality as possible).
Anyone who is having problems with their SB network, I strongly suggest
buy one of the new 802.1n extremes. Even at 802.1g, the strength and
range of the signal is vastly improved; also the Airport software is
more sophisticated than before in terms of assigning MAC addresses to
specific IP addresses which can then be fed via DHCP.
--
The Witty Frog
The Witty Frog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2224
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Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
I'm struggling with this, as well. I love my Squeezebox and have no complaints with it, but I, and my wife especially, would love to be able to scroll through the album covers on the tv to pick things to listen to. I've got a pretty big collection and it gets tough to scroll through everything. Add in the ability to look at pictures (we take a ton), and it's pretty neat. (Not to mention the TV shows and movies, but I don't see myself using that much.) But, I love my Squeezebox because of the add-ins - having the weather display on the unit is very nice, as is being able to listen to XM radio. Plus, I don't have to worry about formats. Squeezebox plays everything I throw at it. And sounds great while doing it. Looks good, too. I'm not an Apple guy...I don't own one and I don't even own an IPod (gasp!), but I'm pretty intrigued by this device. I wish Slim made something similar, but I might be the only one. -- kaline kaline's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
The Apple TV is very formidable competition. It plays HD video, supports lossless audio and plays your photographs. It has a an Intel proc, Nvidia GPU and a 40GB hard drive that is a snap to replace with whatever 2.5 drive you want (PATA). It runs OS X 10.4 with a full Quicktime stack which has been modified with Perian to support more codecs. It has Toslink, Component outputs and HDMI and a mysterious USB port for service needs. If I'm a consumer and I'm looking at an Apple TV versus a Slimbox it's going to boil down to if I want Photo and video support and if I hate/love having the TV show the UI. Complaints about Apple being the Devil or using DRM to gain a monopoly is just dogma pure and simple. Apple is where they are because of excellent design and execution. I hope that with Logitech's backing Slim Devices can thrive and compete at this level. -- hmurchison hmurchison's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
I think having the TV on is not a problem for most users. In fact it will be a talking point amongst friends and relatives which will give buyers that confident feeling that they have got value for money. I think it was stated before that this is a consumer machine and not aimed at the audiophile market. When viewed from this perspective the Apple tv is a strong competitor to the squeezebox. Remember you don't need to buy a single track from Apple it will play all your ripped music so really the only lock in is that you need to use itunes, which in my opinion an excellent piece of software and is free. The big advantage of the Apple tv is that it will not need much maintenance if any. Squeezebox on the other hand does take a degree of technical knowledge and a certain amount of maintenance, and if things go wrong... Which would you recommend to your very non technical relative? The only stumbling block is the need for an hd tv, but have you been into an electrical shop recently? That's pretty much all you can buy. -- Steven Moore Steven Moore's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=104 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
Apple TV is fine if you live in the Apple ecosystem but I think Slimserver still has the edge in terms of supported sources and formats esp. if you include Plugins such as WMA, FLAC, OGG, RealAudio, XM, Sirius, AAC+, Pandora. From the Apple TV spec sheet. Audio formats supported AAC (16 to 320 Kbps); protected AAC (from iTunes Store); MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps); MP3 VBR; Apple Lossless; AIFF; WAV -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
Apple show up where SD fail - the consumer product versus the enthusiast product. To compete, SD need to do two things: - make it work out of the box. This means supplying it with a fully-configured NAS as a complete option, plus bundled ripping software that all just works. - make the web user interface a joy to use. The remote is fine, but the web interface is not suitable as the end-user consumer interface. If third parties can do it (Nokia 770), why can't SD? I reckon the Logitech acquisition will improve both of these, but we'll see. Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost and Anti-cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
Steven Moore;191053 Wrote: The big advantage of the Apple tv is that it will not need much maintenance if any. Squeezebox on the other hand does take a degree of technical knowledge and a certain amount of maintenance, and if things go wrong... Which would you recommend to your very non technical relative? This is my point - as much as I like my squeezebox, I'd be reluctant to recommend to anyone even remotely non-technical. iTunes is easy, Apple TV looks easy. In addition, it's pretty good value for money. While I've had fun with my squeezebox, it has been a huge time-suck and required too much fiddling/compromises (the non-ASCII song/filenames issue has caused huge problems for me). In many cases here, I notice plenty of people have dedicated servers, and some have bought some specifically for that. Lots of people I know would not do this - they have one laptop, and aren't going to dedicate it to running an audio client full-time. I also don't understand the comments about the apple ecosystem. The only Apple ecosystem requirement is to use iTunes. Granted, that means users have to be using windows or mac os x, but that does cover just about the entire market. (Would mt-daapd or whatever it's called work?) Anyone using better fileformats (like FLAC) is probably sophisticated enough to set up a converter to populate iTunes with AAC, MP3 or apple lossless files. This will make the slimserver a much, much harder sell. Or relegate SD to a hard-core niche market. On the other hand, maybe that's where they want to go with the $2000 transporter. -- gsalton gsalton's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
adamslim;191067 Wrote: Apple show up where SD fail - the consumer product versus the enthusiast product. To compete, SD need to do two things: - make it work out of the box. This means supplying it with a fully-configured NAS as a complete option, plus bundled ripping software that all just works. - make the web user interface a joy to use. The remote is fine, but the web interface is not suitable as the end-user consumer interface. If third parties can do it (Nokia 770), why can't SD? Agree with all of this. My NAS and Squeezebox probably sat idle for a good two weeks before I figured out what to do with it (I still have no idea of what to use the NAS for apart from streaming music). I love the sound the SB3 produces but it's certainly not been trouble free and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone that I know Most people in the world have even less interest in how computers work than me and I've struggled to make it work. I've persevered because the combination of great sound and convenience is very alluring. But most people are more interested in the convenience side rather than the audiophile side. Make it as simple as Apple make all their hardware or it will always be a niche product. -- Braidy Braidy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9818 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
hmurchison;191050 Wrote: The Apple TV is very formidable competition. It plays HD video, supports lossless audio and plays your photographs. Yes and a toaster makes toast. Why can't a Squeezebox make toast too? Boy, it's not going to make it in the market then! ...It's a different product aimed for a different market. Yes, it's a market the consumer loves: dumbed-down, closed, inflexible, just works because all the decisions are made for you. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Apple is where they are because of excellent design and execution. A couple billion dollars worth of marketing doesn't hurt either. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
adamslim;191067 Wrote: Apple show up where SD fail - the consumer product versus the enthusiast product. To compete, SD need to do two things: - make it work out of the box. This means supplying it with a fully-configured NAS as a complete option, plus bundled ripping software that all just works. - make the web user interface a joy to use. The remote is fine, but the web interface is not suitable as the end-user consumer interface. If third parties can do it (Nokia 770), why can't SD? I reckon the Logitech acquisition will improve both of these, but we'll see. Adam I'd have to disagree. I already have a PC and laptop I can use as a remote. They would be nice as optionals but the total cost could blow out. All these other devices and software packages Slim would have to support and that is expensive. There is a lot to be said for just doing what you are good at and leaving the rest to others. But then I work in IT and am comfortable around computers, it is not a solution I'd recommend to friends who are not comfortable with computers. Gus -- gusi gusi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3801 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
Mark Lanctot;191085 Wrote: Yes and a toaster makes toast. Why can't a Squeezebox make toast too? Boy, it's not going to make it in the market then! ...It's a different product aimed for a different market. Yes, it's a market the consumer loves: dumbed-down, closed, inflexible, just works because all the decisions are made for you. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. A couple billion dollars worth of marketing doesn't hurt either. I'm not slamming the SB I'm just saying that at its price the ATV is going to be formidable. I don't think the markets are different. If I like FLAC I've got a couple of choices. I can convert to Apple Lossless as my codec of choice or I can hack my Apple TV to support FLAC. Calling the Apple TV closed merely means you have seen the level hacking that has already happened. The HDD has been easily upgraded Since it runs OS X 10.4 enthusiasts have added to the Quicktime to support Divx,3vix and other codecs. Perian (Perian.org) is easily added. VNC and SSH have been made to work as well as Apache. http://www.appletvhacker.blogspot.com/ for more stuff. Calling the Apple TV closed and inflexible with the huge amount of hacks that have already been discovere merely means you haven't been looking at the world around you regarding streaming players or have succombed to tired Apple is proprietary diatribes. I'm not here to bash the SB. It's just that the Apple TV has presented such an amazing amount of tweakability if Apple doesn't pull the reins back a bit who knows what people are going to find with this box. Logictech/SD should take note and I'm sure we've got some nice stuff to look forward to coming down the pipeline. -- hmurchison hmurchison's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
So, now that the Apple TV is out, what do people think? My read (not having tried it yet) is that I would go with the AppleTV over a squeezebox, as much as I love the one I have, for the ease of use and (even limited) video/photo capabilities. For $50 more, and the ease of use, it seems to me a pretty easy choice for most. Particularly since it has a hard drive inside, meaning no need to keep another server on all the time (although we will all complain about the size of the drive, at least some of the library would be accessible). Buffering/storage should mean that 90% of the stuttering music issues would go away. There will invariably some who want particular features of Squeezebox, open source, or whatever, but the little oddities of my squeezebox have eaten up a lot of my time. For example, due to an issue with certain foreign language characters, 30% of my music library couldn't be used until I spent hours fiddling. And don't get me started on tagging - doesn't matter whose software caused the problems, this was another massive time suck. Sticking with iTunes would have been much easier. Please, this is not a troll or attempt to start a flamewar. But for me, for the money and ease of use, the current squeezebox is looking long in the tooth compared to the Apple TV. And I suspect for any consumer even slightly less inclined to spend money fiddling than I have been, it is not even a question that they won't bother with the effort. -- gsalton gsalton's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
to each their own, but there is a substantial number of squeezebox owners that don't have (nor want) a TV in the room they listen to music. I am one of them. AppleTV has lots of competition (for example, http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/3690/mvix_mx-760hd_vs), but not the squeezebox. Beyond being media streamers, they fill fairly different niches. The thing that gets under my skin about Apple is they put things in a pretty package with a bow on it and all of a sudden everyone thinks they were the forerunners of that particular technology. Sure, they are design and marketing gods, but most people with brains can see past that. But it's not any of that which keeps me away from Apple--it's the way they've used proprietary DRM to monopolize a market. AppleTV will have the same baggage. That's a capital offense, in my book. cheers, #!/ben -- bklaas the Nokia770 skin guy http://www.last.fm/user/bklaas/ bklaas's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
bklaas;190970 Wrote: to each their own, but there is a substantial number of squeezebox owners that don't have (nor want) a TV in the room they listen to music. I am one of them. The thing that gets under my skin about Apple is they put things in a pretty package with a bow on it and all of a sudden everyone thinks they were the forerunners of that particular technology. Sure, they are design and marketing gods, but most people with brains can see past that. But it's not any of that which keeps me away from Apple--it's the way they've used proprietary DRM to monopolize a market. AppleTV will have the same baggage. That's a capital offense, in my book. cheers, #!/ben Yeah, but they make that box with a pretty package work so well. Same with the ipod - it's not technically superior, but it works much more simply. And one question about this that I've never understood: what's the problem with the DRM? If you don't buy music from them, you can keep it in any format supported, including MP3 and AIFF (non-apple formats). And if you're willing to spend the time, keep copies at the same time in any other format you like. I personally have a handful of files bought from iTunes store. Probably wouldn't do it again, but that was a known limitation when I bought them, and why I buy all my music elsewhere. -- gsalton gsalton's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
gsalton;190979 Wrote: Yeah, but they make that box with a pretty package work so well. Same with the ipod - it's not technically superior, but it works much more simply. And one question about this that I've never understood: what's the problem with the DRM? If you don't buy music from them, you can keep it in any format supported, including MP3 and AIFF (non-apple formats). And if you're willing to spend the time, keep copies at the same time in any other format you like. I personally have a handful of files bought from iTunes store. Probably wouldn't do it again, but that was a known limitation when I bought them, and why I buy all my music elsewhere. Good points. Apple's done well for a reason. As for me, I just don't like itunes. I've never really managed to figure it out. Also, I fundamentally don't trust Apple. I don't think they're the devil, but when it comes down to buying gear for myself I'd rather have something more flexible that meets my needs precisely. And I kind of like having something that's a bit different :). -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Apple TV Competition?
bklaas;190970 Wrote: The thing that gets under my skin about Apple is they put things in a pretty package with a bow on it and all of a sudden everyone thinks they were the forerunners of that particular technology. Sure, they are design and marketing gods, but most people with brains can see past that. But it's not any of that which keeps me away from Apple--it's the way they've used proprietary DRM to monopolize a market. AppleTV will have the same baggage. That's a capital offense, in my book. The best consumer products rarely break new ground with internals, they are dependant on using tried and trusted technology for cost and reliability reasons. Where Apple always score is usability - their stuff just works and is really nice to look at. Slim works well too, mostly, but the interface is obtuse and clunky in comparison if you are Joe User and not an audiophile geek. As for DRM, I have bought music from iTunes, but since I can also burn to CD, I could then re-rip the tunes and bypass the initial DRM. As it happens I only buy iTunes music for my iPod, not my stereo, so it's not really an issue and I don't bother. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Apple TV Competition?
i am curious to know what other members think of the new apple tv media streaming box? obviously there are many differences between the sqeezebox and appleTV such as the dependence on itunes - a TV - a Computer etc. however they are obviously similar in function i.e. streaming music wirelessly. what do you think of all the hype around this box? how much of a competitor do you reckon it is? cheers, -- Zaphilosophile Zaphilosophile's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9572 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31559 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
