Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
This is an interesting and timely thread, having just worked on a directory index script which includes file sizes: http://www.sodface.com/repo/ It's the classic directory index style, also used by the Alpine mirrors: https://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/ I didn't like that stat returned bytes and started looking at converting it to something more human readable. An interesting discussion here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/44040/a-standard-tool-to-convert-a-byte-count-into-human-kib-mib-etc-like-du-ls1 I'm going to leave it at bytes for now just to keep things simple. I doubt I'll get any complaints. sodface's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19057 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
I had a colleague who was from South Africa, where the terminology was a bit different. He had engaged with computers at the point when portable discs were transitioning from 5.25" to 3.5". One time at work he was looking for 3.5" disc, the 5.25" ones having been totally superseded, but there still needed to be a distinction made. He approached one of our female colleagues and asked with some desperation that he needed a "stiffy". Stilted silence, then gales of laughter. Multicultural joys. R. LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3) Transporter (Ethernet) - main listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.) Radio (WiFi) - home office Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 4) Touch x 1 - spare UE Radio x 1 - spare Boom x 1 - spare Controller x 1 - Spare Duet Receiver (backup) RonM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > In more than 20 years since then I have never heard anyone use those > terms. I spent 38 years in the IBM mainframe world from 360's up to Z processors and I too had never heard those terms. In that world bytes were always 8 bits, 1K was 1024 bytes and so on. Storage addressing I did see go from 24 bits of a 32 bit word all the way up to 64 bits and I understand it's now 128 bits. I'm very happy now since I've been retired since 2009! :o Main system - Rock Solid with LMS 8.2.0 on WHS 2011 - 2 Duets and Squeeseslave Cabin system - Rock solid with LMS 8.2.0 on Win10 Pro - 1 RPi 3 Model B/Hifiberry DAC+ Pro/PiCorePlayer and Squeezeslave Squeezebox Boom - "At Large" player around both home and cabin Headphones and car - Android phone/Bluetooth w/full library on MicroSD card - PowerAmp music player app (similar to Material Skin) w3wilkes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > FORTH - my introduction to threaded code. > I thought there was already a FORTH port done and was in the DECUS > library - or maybe you did it. It was after my attempt - I contributed some code. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
Julf wrote: > You can imagine the fun I had trying to port the FORTH > interpreter/compiler to it. FORTH is probably the only language that is > even more tied to the 8-bit byte than C FORTH - my introduction to threaded code. I thought there was already a FORTH port done and was in the DECUS library - or maybe you did it. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > A fellow PDP-10 coder on DECystem-10/DECsystem-20 with odd instruction > mnemonics such as HRRZM, AOBJN. > The indirect bit where, in assembler, you could do multiple levels of > table lookup in just one instruction - great fun to code but nearly > impossible to maintain. You can imagine the fun I had trying to port the FORTH interpreter/compiler to it. FORTH is probably the only language that is even more tied to the 8-bit byte than C "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
Julf wrote: > Indeed. On the PDP-10 (and PDP-20) a byte could be anything from 5 bits > up. Memory was 36 bits wide. with 18 bit word addresses, so a byte > pointer was 18 bits word address, and 18 bits of type flags, the > infamous indirect bit, and byte length and offset (into the word) of the > first bit - so you could even mix different byte sizes in the same word. A fellow PDP-10 coder on DECystem-10/DECsystem-20 with odd instruction mnemonics such as HRRZM, AOBJN. The indirect bit where, in assembler, you could do multiple levels of table lookup in just one instruction - great fun to code but nearly impossible to maintain. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > Same here. > > The odd part is they didn't seem to define "byte" - because there used > to be ambiguity, many network protocol standards used the term "octet" > for a 8 bit quantity. Indeed. On the PDP-10 (and PDP-20) a byte could be anything from 5 bits up. Memory was 36 bits wide. with 18 bit word addresses, so a byte pointer was 18 bits word address, and 18 bits of type flags, the infamous indirect bit, and byte length and offset (into the word) of the first bit - so you could even mix different byte sizes in the same word. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > Same here. > > The odd part is they didn't seem to define "byte" - because there used > to be ambiguity, many network protocol standards used the term "octet" > for a 8 bit quantity. In French that's even the official word (at least in France it is). Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer PDP-LX5090H Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey + Topping A30 + Focal Elear Car: TBC ... bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > In more than 20 years since then I have never heard anyone use those > terms. Same here. The odd part is they didn't seem to define "byte" - because there used to be ambiguity, many network protocol standards used the term "octet" for a 8 bit quantity. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
ftlight wrote: > Since December 1998: kibi, mebi, gibi, tebi, pebi, exbi, zebi, yobi > > https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.htmlIn more than 20 years since > then I have never heard anyone use those terms. Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bakker_be wrote: > Well, ... According to the SI the drive manufacturers are actually using > the term correctly ;) https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html Since December 1998: kibi, mebi, gibi, tebi, pebi, exbi, zebi, yobi https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
Paul Webster wrote: > and I have one of those drives sitting in a PDP 11/83 in my lounge! > wow! I leaned assembler in university on one of those. Right about the same time I was feeding punch cards to a CDC6600 (60 bit word) hoping my Fortran program would run:o Jim Redrum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
I used to use 8-inch ones on PDPs ... RX01 and RX02. They had a cartridge tape drive as well ... TK50/TK70 ... and I have one of those drives sitting in a PDP 11/83 in my lounge! Most would not know it was there as it is covered with a cloth and the record deck sits on top. Paul Webster author of \"now playing\" plugins covering radio france (fip etc), planetradio (bauer - kiss, absolute, scala, jazzfm etc), kcrw, abc australia and cbc/radio-canada and, via the extra \"radio now playing\" plugin lots more - see https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?115201-announce-radio-now-playing-plugin Paul Webster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=105 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > I never used 8" disks but we did use zip disks You have to be ancient to remember them - they were used for IBM 360's microcode and v. early word processors (e.g. Diamond, Wang) > Does anyone still have a zip drive? Not any more - didn't use them much as they seemed a bit too much hit/miss. Later ones were a bit better with QIC tapes. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > The anecdotes at the time tell of people who took off the "packaging" to > get to the floppy disk and then tried to put it into their Mac but > couldn't as they were too floppy. > 8" and 5.25" were real floppy disks.I never used 8" disks but we did use zip > disks. Does anyone still have a zip drive? Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
Grumpy Bob wrote: > They were floppy inside the hard plastic sleeve! The anecdotes at the time tell of people who took off the "packaging" to get to the floppy disk and then tried to put it into their Mac but couldn't as they were too floppy. 8" and 5.25" were real floppy disks. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > I did hesitate before writing floppy [emoji1787] > > Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk They were floppy inside the hard plastic sleeve! Robert *Home: *Raspberry Pi 4/pCP7.0/LMS8.1.2/Material with files on QNAP TS-251A Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 > Rega Fono Mini; Naim CD3) 2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired), 1 x SqueezeAMP *Office:* LMS8.0.0 running on Raspberry Pi3; Raspberry Pi 3 player with touchscreen/piCorePlayer/IQaudIO DAC and Amp *Portable:* Raspberry Pi 3B/pCP7.0.1/LMS8.1.2/Material, files on Seagate portable drive, powered via power brick Grumpy Bob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41857 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > Even worse those floppy disk weren't even floppy anymore unlike the > 5.25" ones !!I did hesitate before writing floppy [emoji1787] Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > To confuse things even more 1.44MB Floppy discs were not 1.44 megabytes > or 1.44 mebibytes but 1440 kebibytes Even worse those floppy disk weren't even floppy anymore unlike the 5.25" ones !! bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bpa wrote: > I thought a computer megabyte (1024x1024) used to be written as MB and a > kilobyte 1024 as KB to distinguish from SI kilo=1,000 but I think people > became careless with notation as PCs were used by "ordinary" people (and > maybe consumer protection demanded "correct" numbering) . > > Of course historically a byte were just the unit of manipulation and in > 1960s-70s could be anything from 6 bits to 9 bits and computer words > were 12bits to 36bits wide. > Disks for PDP-10 such as an RP06 had its capacity measured in Megawords > when a word was 36 bits wide.To confuse things even more 1.44MB Floppy discs > were not 1.44 megabytes or 1.44 mebibytes but 1440 kebibytes [emoji2] Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
Guessed there had to be lawsuit somewhere to force this issue. https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/flashdrives.pdf bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > Maybe now but historically a Megabyte was 1024 Kilobytes and a Kilobyte > was 1024 bytes. I thought a computer megabyte (1024x1024) used to be written as MB and a kilobyte 1024 as KB to distinguish from SI kilo=1,000 but I think people became careless with notation as PCs were used by "ordinary" people (and maybe consumer protection demanded "correct" numbering) . Of course historically a byte were just the unit of manipulation and in 1960s-70s could be anything from 6 bits to 9 bits and computer words were 12bits to 36bits wide. Disks for PDP-10 such as an RP06 had its capacity measured in Megawords when a word was 36 bits wide. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
bakker_be wrote: > Well, ... According to the SI the drive manufacturers are actually using > the term correctly ;) https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.htmlMaybe > now but historically a Megabyte was 1024 Kilobytes and a Kilobyte was 1024 bytes. Just like a billion now is 1000 million when in the UK at least it used to be a million million. Really a million dollars should be a Megadollar and a billion a Gigadollar to prevent confusion [emoji1787] Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] MB Vs MiB
slartibartfast wrote: > While looking at memory usage in top and htop I couldn't figure out why > they showed different numbers. It turns out top uses MiB (Mebibytes) and > htop uses MB (Megabytes). > I was totally ignorant of Mebibytes and they seem to be exactly what I > thought a Megabyte used to be before drive manufacturers decided to > redefine a Megabyte as 1000 kB ( and presumably a kB as 1000 bytes) so > their drives appeared to be bigger [emoji2]. > > Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk Well, ... According to the SI the drive manufacturers are actually using the term correctly ;) https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer PDP-LX5090H Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey + Topping A30 + Focal Elear Car: TBC ... bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] MB Vs MiB
While looking at memory usage in top and htop I couldn't figure out why they showed different numbers. It turns out top uses MiB (Mebibytes) and htop uses MB (Megabytes). I was totally ignorant of Mebibytes and they seem to be exactly what I thought a Megabyte used to be before drive manufacturers decided to redefine a Megabyte as 1000 kB ( and presumably a kB as 1000 bytes) so their drives appeared to be bigger [emoji2]. Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=116079 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
