Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
BJW wrote: > Things got confused in this thread imo. I use RG, I do not use > normalization and wouldn't want to. > > But the other issue doesn't make sense. Think of output level as the > volume knob. If it's at 10, that's 100%. If it's at 5, that's 50%. In > either case, RG should be applied and noticeable (vs not being applied) > bc it's done in software, prior to reaching the output stage. > > So while I never put anything past server and it's hardware > implementation, I believe the contention that 100% output defeats RG is > wrong. I was wrong. RG does appear to work at 100%. VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS) [B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s *Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s Everything controlled by iPeng d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
Things got confused in this thread imo. I use RG, I do not use normalization and wouldn't want to. But the other issue doesn't make sense. Think of output level as the volume knob. If it's at 10, that's 100%. If it's at 5, that's 50%. In either case, RG should be applied and noticeable (vs not being applied) bc it's done in software, prior to reaching the output stage. So while I never put anything past server and it's hardware implementation, I believe the contention that 100% output defeats RG is wrong. using: win7 64 + lms 7.9 & duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng on an ipod http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/various_artists_logic & http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/compilations BJW's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58242 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
bakker_be wrote: > I have never known it not to work. I believe this is just a coincidence > with this particular album, where the extremely low recording level > would induce clipping when boosted to the reference level, which is > something that ReplayGain doesn't do by default. In Foobar2K this > behaviour can be circumvented, don't rightly know about it in LMS. It was me that started this thread. The album in question was recorded at a very low level and "seemed" not to be obeying the RG tags when the player (SB3) was at fixed volume. However the player was part of a Group created through "Group Players" plugin where there was another player also involved but I didn't test it on its own. I will set another single player with 100% Fixed Volume and run the offending album through it as part of a playlist and advise. The sound level of the recording is so low that it will be immediately obvious but I can't do it until later. VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS) [B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s *Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s Everything controlled by iPeng d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
slartibartfast wrote: > I have not tried myself but this thread suggests replaygain works with > volume fixed at 100%. > > https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93913-ReplayGain-Problems > > Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk I have never known it not to work. I believe this is just a coincidence with this particular album, where the extremely low recording level would induce clipping when boosted to the reference level, which is something that ReplayGain doesn't do by default. In Foobar2K this behaviour can be circumvented, don't rightly know about it in LMS. Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer PDP-LX5090H Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey + Topping A30 + Focal Elear Car: TBC ... bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
JJZolx wrote: > Does this mean that ReplayGain is disabled by LMS when a player's volume > is fixed at 100%? Is that actually in the code? > > Someone explain to me why it cannot work at 100%.I have not tried myself but > this thread suggests replaygain works with volume fixed at 100%. https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93913-ReplayGain-Problems Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
d6jg wrote: > Now I think about it I can see the logic as to why it wouldnt but also > how you could be fooled into thinking that even at 100% it could / > should work. Does this mean that's ReplayGain is disabled by LMS when a player's volume is fixed at 100%? Is that actually in the code? Someone explain to me why it cannot work at 100%. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
bakker_be wrote: > Probably all depends on the tools used. I haven't gone back and checked > since discovering ReplayGain, but at the very least the "volume > normalization" feature in Windows Mediaplayer adversely affected > dynamics and was irreversibly applied to the files ... > I agree that the "official" definition indeed is as you say. Wouldn't surprise me if WMP's "volume normalisation" is some sort of compressor that attempts to boost the perceived volume to match typical CDs. Just guessing, though. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
cliveb wrote: > I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Normalisation is the application > of linear amplification so as to bring the peak level to a defined value > (usually, but not necessarily, 0db). > It most definitely does not affect the dynamics. > > My advice to the OP is to go ahead and normalise his Bob Marley needle > drop, and then recalculate the replay gain values. Probably all depends on the tools used. I haven't gone back and checked since discovering ReplayGain, but at the very least the "volume normalization" feature in Windows Mediaplayer adversely affected dynamics and was irreversibly applied to the files ... I agree that the "official" definition indeed is as you say. Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer PDP-LX5090H Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey + Topping A30 + Focal Elear Car: TBC ... bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
Yes replay gain tags only teaks the volume at playback . But never at a positive values because of clipping so there is a target volume lets say -10dB ( the exact value is probably something else ) so the rg tags is an offset to reach the target volume usually negative . Really well recorded stuff can have a small positive values . But I suppose a reallly large positive value trips up the algorithm so it does not dare to raise the volume to much as clipping may occur . Or also likely the volume was so very low that you needed more than 100% gain 0db at playback to match the other tracks . The player can not provide more than full volume . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
bakker_be wrote: > Normalization is not the same as boosting the overall volume. > Normalization loses the dynamics as it's more akin to dynamic > compression. I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Normalisation is the application of linear amplification so as to bring the peak level to a defined value (usually, but not necessarily, 0db). It most definitely does not affect the dynamics. My advice to the OP is to go ahead and normalise his Bob Marley needle drop, and then recalculate the replay gain values. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
d6jg wrote: > What you say about 100% Fixed is interesting as I could have sworn it > used to work. Where I noticed is an SB3 which is in a Group with an O2 > Joggler as a Control Point / Now Playing display but I always play the > group. Wonder if its that? It shouldn't. I've used the group player plugin as well, for a combination SBT + SqueezePlayer, both set to 100% fixed, and it worked as it should. I do seem to remember that RG refuses to lift the volume to the desired level if this would induce clipping. Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer PDP-LX5090H Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey + Topping A30 + Focal Elear Car: TBC ... bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
bakker_be wrote: > Normalization is not the same as boosting the overall volume. > Normalization loses the dynamics as it's more akin to dynamic > compression. Digitally boosting these tracks with 12dB as proposed will > lift everything by these same 12dB, ending up at ±-3dB absolute for the > loudest peaks and (-3dB - the difference between loudest and quietest) > for the quietest parts. Think of it as just turning the volume knob on > your amplifier. > It does seem strange to me however that RG doesn't work when your volume > is fixed at 100. I've been using RG on all my files for years and never > once had this issue on any client with this setting in effect. I thought > that this was done server-side befor sending out to the client ... What you say about 100% Fixed is interesting as I could have sworn it used to work. Where I noticed is an SB3 which is in a Group with an O2 Joggler as a Control Point / Now Playing display but I always play the group. Wonder if its that? VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS) [B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s *Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s Everything controlled by iPeng d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
d6jg wrote: > You can indeed but I adopted RG as opposed to Normalisation some while > ago. > There is a Normalisation option in VinylStudio but my collection is > about 2000 CDs to 650 LPs so RG was easier when I started out. That said > Im still re ripping stuff that I foolishly did at 320kbps MP3 at the > outset! Normalization is not the same as boosting the overall volume. Normalization loses the dynamics as it's more akin to dynamic compression. Digitally boosting these tracks with 12dB as proposed will lift everything by these same 12dB, ending up at ±-3dB absolute for the loudest peaks and (-3dB - the difference between loudest and quietest) for the quietest parts. Think of it as just turning the volume knob on your amplifier. It does seem strange to me however that RG doesn't work when your volume is fixed at 100. I've been using RG on all my files for years and never once had this issue on any client with this setting in effect. I thought that this was done server-side befor sending out to the client ... Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer PDP-LX5090H Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey + Topping A30 + Focal Elear Car: TBC ... bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
Apesbrain wrote: > If you don't want those big RG values, you can amplify the files. Just > amplify each track by the same amount. 12dB should do it. You can indeed but I adopted RG as opposed to Normalisation some while ago. There is a Normalisation option in VinylStudio but my collection is about 2000 CDs to 650 LPs so RG was easier when I started out. That said Im still re ripping stuff that I foolishly did at 320kbps MP3 at the outset! VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS) [B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s *Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s Everything controlled by iPeng d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday
If you don't want those big RG values, you can amplify the files. Just amplify each track by the same amount. 12dB should do it. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] You learn something new everyday
Yesterday I recorded an album to FLAC using the same software that I always use - VinylStudio from Alpinesoft (its the best I have used by far and I have tried many). Anyway the album in question was Bob Marley, Legend on 180g Vinyl. When I got to the track splitting stage I was astonished at the waveform I was presented with. The volume level on the whole album was set really low with the result that the waveform was narrow if you know what I mean. This wasnt a case of not having the software set incorrectly as with a USB type ADC you set a particular level of digital gain once and then never alter it. No the album was pressed at an incredibly low volume. After splitting and writing individual tracks I ran Foobar2000 over them to set Replay Gain. It required a 15db uplift. A level which I have never seen before. Having rescanned I proceeded to test play on my Living Room SB3. Still sounded desperately quiet when compared to other tracks. Checked the SB3 audio settings to ensure Smart Gain was on. Yes. Then I realised. The SB3 was set to output at 100%. It appears Smart Gain does not work if this is the case. Now I think about it I can see the logic as to why it wouldnt but also how you could be fooled into thinking that even at 100% it could / should work. As I say you learn something new about LMS every day! VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS) [B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s *Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s Everything controlled by iPeng d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=110072 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
