Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[Marcus Müller]

Hi Antonio,

I think this is a revival of an older thread.

I still can't execute your flow graph, because it seems to be built with
an old version of GNU Radio (probably 3.6.X?).
Using that really doesn't make sense for OFDM experimentation, because
the new, much cooler and better-working OFDM blocks are not available there.
I *strongly* recommend updating your GNU Radio installation.

Also, I think all information you gave in this mail was already there in
previous mails of you. Don't write such emails; people will start
considering you as spammer if you don't include what you've tried since
the last time you've got responses to your mails. Always try to
represent the latest state. For example, I already told you that your
GNU Radio is too old and we can't work with your flow graphs. You did
not even react to that...

Best regards,
Marcus

On 09.09.2015 20:28, ANTONIO TAMAYO wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion. I have
> to calculate the BER with OFDM using different modulations to the
> subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER numbers.
> The configuration I use is in the images attached.
> Specifically, I have to send an image and after that I have to
> calculate the BER. Also, I need to send an random vector and calculate
> the BER in the same way as with the image. The image that I send in
> the example is called "imagen" and it's attached in this email.
>
> When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem.
> First I try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER
> data. Then I try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same.
> Clearly I'm making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is.
> In view of the configuration used, someone could tell me which are my
> mistakes?
>
>
> Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
> correctly.
>
> Thank you all.
>
>
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[Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[ANTONIO TAMAYO]

Hello,

 I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion. I have to
calculate the BER with OFDM using different modulations to the subcarriers.
After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER numbers. The configuration
I use is in the images attached.
Specifically, I have to send an image and after that I have to calculate
the BER. Also, I need to send an random vector and calculate the BER in the
same way as with the image. The image that I send in the example is called
"imagen" and it's attached in this email.

When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem. First I
try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER data. Then I
try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same. Clearly I'm
making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is. In view of the
configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?


Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
correctly.

Thank you all.


Sistema_OFDM_Pruebas.grc
Description: Binary data


Sistema_OFDM_Pruebas1.grc
Description: Binary data
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[Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[ANTONIO TAMAYO]

Hello Jawad,

Today I send the same message that I sent a few days ago because I realized
I did not include GRC code files. Those files are necessary to detect
errors.

I've made the changes you said. As you say, when I assign the Payload
parameter to the number of samples of the block Random Source without
introducing Delay, I get a BER value equal to 0. But what I need to
introduce a noise source so that when I increase the power noise, also
increase the BER. This doesn't happen making the changes that you say, when
I introduce a noise source and the noise power is increasing the value of
BER remains 0. This is incorrect. As you can see in the spectrum received,
the signal contains errors that they aren't appreciated by the block Error
Rate. (SistemasOFDM_prueba.grc)
Also, I need to send an image and calculate the BER in the same way as with
the random vector. When I use the block File Source and calculate the BER,
I have the same problem, the BER remains constant at 0.51 and although the
noise power increases, the BER remains unchanged. (SistemaOFDM_Pruebas1.grc)
The image that I send in the previos example is called "imagen"
Thank you.

Regards,
Antonio


Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 15:04:26 +0200
From: Jawad Seddar 
To: gnuradio mailing list 
Cc: ANTONIO TAMAYO 
Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different
modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello Antonio,

Please take the habit of replying to the list. People might get into the
same problems or someone might have some knowledge to share.

Also, try to provide a flowgraph (.grc file) to make testing easier for the
people helping you out.

That said, I did some testing and it looks like I was wrong. The delay
isn't the problem here (at least not on my machine).
But I think I figured out the problem. It looks like you provided a Payload
length of 0 in your OFDM modulator block.
If I set the payload length to 100 and then the random source Num. samples
to the same value, the BER goes to 0 without adding delay. And you can see
the BER moving when you change the delay.

There is one problem though, it doesn't seem to work when the payload
length and the Num. samples are not set to the same value.


Regards,
Jawad

2015-09-01 13:50 GMT+02:00 ANTONIO TAMAYO :

> Hello Jawad,
>
> I have tried to use the delay block but I keep having the same problem. I
> have attached an image of how I used the block. I also attached an image
of
> the value of BER obtained, whenever I make changes to the delay block I
get
> the value of 0.1251. So the problem is not resolved. Also, I tried change
> the paremeter simbol per bit in the Error Rate block, but the problem
> persists. What is the optimal value for this parameter? Regarding the use
> of the throttle block I tried to run this diagram without him and the
value
> BER is the same.
> Thank you for answering my emails, your answers are very useful.
> I've included our previous emails in the end of this email. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Antonio
>
>
>
> 
---
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion.
Specifically
> > I have to calculate the BER with OFDM using different modulations to the
> > subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER numbers.
The
> > configuration I use is in the image attached.
> > When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem.
First
> > I try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER data. Then
> I
> > try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same. Clearly I'm
> > making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is. In view of
the
> > configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?
> > Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
> > correctly.
> >
> > Thank you all.
> >
>
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:41:10 +0200
> From: Jawad Seddar 
> To: gnuradio mailing list 
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different
> modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion
> Message-ID:
> <
> cae9wgf80dwtktgo0tuq4p4nreihpnprxjdcvh7g5feusmds...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> The problem might be due to delay introduced by the processing blocks.
> Your OFDM modulator and demodulator don't work instantaneously, they take
> some time to do their processing and forward their outputs to the next
> block in line. Therefore, there is a delay between the output of the OFDM
> demod block and the original signal.
> What you need to do is add a delay block between your Random source 

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[ANTONIO TAMAYO]

Hello Jawad,

I've made the changes you said. As you say, when I assign the Payload
parameter to the number of samples of the block Random Source without
introducing Delay, I get a BER value equal to 0. But what I need to
introduce a noise source so that when I increase the power noise, also
increase the BER. This doesn't happen making the changes that you say, when
I introduce a noise source and the noise power is increasing the value of
BER remains 0. This is incorrect. As you can see in the spectrum received,
the signal contains errors that they aren't appreciated by the block Error
Rate. (SistemasOFDM_prueba.grc)
Also, I need to send an image and calculate the BER in the same way as with
the random vector. When I use the block File Source and calculate the BER,
I have the same problem, the BER remains constant at 0.51 and although the
noise power increases, the BER remains unchanged. (SistemaOFDM_Pruebas1.grc)
The image that I send in the previos example is called "imagen"
Thank you.

Regards,
Antonio

2015-09-01 15:04 GMT+02:00 Jawad Seddar :

> Hello Antonio,
>
> Please take the habit of replying to the list. People might get into the
> same problems or someone might have some knowledge to share.
>
> Also, try to provide a flowgraph (.grc file) to make testing easier for
> the people helping you out.
>
> That said, I did some testing and it looks like I was wrong. The delay
> isn't the problem here (at least not on my machine).
> But I think I figured out the problem. It looks like you provided a
> Payload length of 0 in your OFDM modulator block.
> If I set the payload length to 100 and then the random source Num. samples
> to the same value, the BER goes to 0 without adding delay. And you can see
> the BER moving when you change the delay.
>
> There is one problem though, it doesn't seem to work when the payload
> length and the Num. samples are not set to the same value.
>
>
> Regards,
> Jawad
>
>
> 2015-09-01 13:50 GMT+02:00 ANTONIO TAMAYO :
>
>> Hello Jawad,
>>
>> I have tried to use the delay block but I keep having the same problem. I
>> have attached an image of how I used the block. I also attached an image of
>> the value of BER obtained, whenever I make changes to the delay block I get
>> the value of 0.1251. So the problem is not resolved. Also, I tried change
>> the paremeter simbol per bit in the Error Rate block, but the problem
>> persists. What is the optimal value for this parameter? Regarding the use
>> of the throttle block I tried to run this diagram without him and the value
>> BER is the same.
>> Thank you for answering my emails, your answers are very useful.
>> I've included our previous emails in the end of this email. Thank you.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Antonio
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion.
>> Specifically
>> > I have to calculate the BER with OFDM using different modulations to the
>> > subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER numbers.
>> The
>> > configuration I use is in the image attached.
>> > When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem.
>> First
>> > I try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER data.
>> Then I
>> > try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same. Clearly I'm
>> > making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is. In view of
>> the
>> > configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?
>> > Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
>> > correctly.
>> >
>> > Thank you all.
>> >
>>
>> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:41:10 +0200
>> From: Jawad Seddar 
>> To: gnuradio mailing list 
>> Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different
>> modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> cae9wgf80dwtktgo0tuq4p4nreihpnprxjdcvh7g5feusmds...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Antonio,
>>
>> The problem might be due to delay introduced by the processing blocks.
>> Your OFDM modulator and demodulator don't work instantaneously, they take
>> some time to do their processing and forward their outputs to the next
>> block in line. Therefore, there is a delay between the output of the OFDM
>> demod block and the original signal.
>> What you need to do is add a delay block between your Random source and
>> the
>> BER block and set the delay properly.
>> When you're not adding any noise, your BER should be 0. So you can try to
>> find the delay value this way.
>> Then add noise and see how your BER evolves.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jawad
>>
>>
>


Sistema_OFDM_Pruebas.grc
Description: Binary data


Sistema_OFDM_Pruebas1.grc
Description: Binary data

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[Marcus Müller]

Hi Antonio,
I tried to open your GRC file. This must have been with a pretty old
version of GNU Radio (which version are you using?).
I strongly recommend getting a newer version of GNU Radio, because
especially the OFDM code has improved a lot.

By the way, a BER of about ~0.5 means that as many bits are right as
there are wrong bits, which means that you get absolutely no information
through (if there were more wrong than right bits, you could just toggle
the bits and get more information); this means that the input and output
streams are not related, or have an offset relative to each other that
doesn't get corrected; increase the BER window size (you don't need the
delay if you've got a bigger window).

Best regards,
Marcus


On 01.09.2015 19:12, ANTONIO TAMAYO wrote:
> Hello Jawad,
>
> I've made the changes you said. As you say, when I assign the Payload
> parameter to the number of samples of the block Random Source without
> introducing Delay, I get a BER value equal to 0. But what I need to
> introduce a noise source so that when I increase the power noise, also
> increase the BER. This doesn't happen making the changes that you say,
> when I introduce a noise source and the noise power is increasing the
> value of BER remains 0. This is incorrect. As you can see in the
> spectrum received, the signal contains errors that they aren't
> appreciated by the block Error Rate. (SistemasOFDM_prueba.grc)
> Also, I need to send an image and calculate the BER in the same way as
> with the random vector. When I use the block File Source and calculate
> the BER, I have the same problem, the BER remains constant at 0.51 and
> although the noise power increases, the BER remains unchanged.
> (SistemaOFDM_Pruebas1.grc)
> The image that I send in the previos example is called "imagen"
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Antonio
>
> 2015-09-01 15:04 GMT+02:00 Jawad Seddar  >:
>
> Hello Antonio,
>
> Please take the habit of replying to the list. People might get
> into the same problems or someone might have some knowledge to share.
>
> Also, try to provide a flowgraph (.grc file) to make testing
> easier for the people helping you out.
>
> That said, I did some testing and it looks like I was wrong. The
> delay isn't the problem here (at least not on my machine).
> But I think I figured out the problem. It looks like you provided
> a Payload length of 0 in your OFDM modulator block.
> If I set the payload length to 100 and then the random source Num.
> samples to the same value, the BER goes to 0 without adding delay.
> And you can see the BER moving when you change the delay.
>
> There is one problem though, it doesn't seem to work when the
> payload length and the Num. samples are not set to the same value.
>
>
> Regards,
> Jawad
>
>
> 2015-09-01 13:50 GMT+02:00 ANTONIO TAMAYO  >:
>
> Hello Jawad,
>
> I have tried to use the delay block but I keep having the same
> problem. I have attached an image of how I used the block. I
> also attached an image of the value of BER obtained, whenever
> I make changes to the delay block I get the value of 0.1251.
> So the problem is not resolved. Also, I tried change the
> paremeter simbol per bit in the Error Rate block, but the
> problem persists. What is the optimal value for this
> parameter? Regarding the use of the throttle block I tried to
> run this diagram without him and the value BER is the same.
> Thank you for answering my emails, your answers are very useful.
> I've included our previous emails in the end of this email.
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Antonio
>
>
> 
> ---
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion.
> Specifically
> > I have to calculate the BER with OFDM using different
> modulations to the
> > subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER
> numbers. The
> > configuration I use is in the image attached.
> > When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same
> problem. First
> > I try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a
> BER data. Then I
> > try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same.
> Clearly I'm
> > making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is.
> In view of the
> > configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?
> > Also, I would like to know how to configure the block
> Channel Model
> > correctly.
> >
> > Thank you all.
> >
>
>   

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[Jawad Seddar]

Hello Antonio,

Please take the habit of replying to the list. People might get into the
same problems or someone might have some knowledge to share.

Also, try to provide a flowgraph (.grc file) to make testing easier for the
people helping you out.

That said, I did some testing and it looks like I was wrong. The delay
isn't the problem here (at least not on my machine).
But I think I figured out the problem. It looks like you provided a Payload
length of 0 in your OFDM modulator block.
If I set the payload length to 100 and then the random source Num. samples
to the same value, the BER goes to 0 without adding delay. And you can see
the BER moving when you change the delay.

There is one problem though, it doesn't seem to work when the payload
length and the Num. samples are not set to the same value.


Regards,
Jawad

2015-09-01 13:50 GMT+02:00 ANTONIO TAMAYO :

> Hello Jawad,
>
> I have tried to use the delay block but I keep having the same problem. I
> have attached an image of how I used the block. I also attached an image of
> the value of BER obtained, whenever I make changes to the delay block I get
> the value of 0.1251. So the problem is not resolved. Also, I tried change
> the paremeter simbol per bit in the Error Rate block, but the problem
> persists. What is the optimal value for this parameter? Regarding the use
> of the throttle block I tried to run this diagram without him and the value
> BER is the same.
> Thank you for answering my emails, your answers are very useful.
> I've included our previous emails in the end of this email. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Antonio
>
>
>
> ---
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion. Specifically
> > I have to calculate the BER with OFDM using different modulations to the
> > subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER numbers. The
> > configuration I use is in the image attached.
> > When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem. First
> > I try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER data. Then
> I
> > try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same. Clearly I'm
> > making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is. In view of the
> > configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?
> > Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
> > correctly.
> >
> > Thank you all.
> >
>
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:41:10 +0200
> From: Jawad Seddar 
> To: gnuradio mailing list 
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different
> modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion
> Message-ID:
> <
> cae9wgf80dwtktgo0tuq4p4nreihpnprxjdcvh7g5feusmds...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> The problem might be due to delay introduced by the processing blocks.
> Your OFDM modulator and demodulator don't work instantaneously, they take
> some time to do their processing and forward their outputs to the next
> block in line. Therefore, there is a delay between the output of the OFDM
> demod block and the original signal.
> What you need to do is add a delay block between your Random source and the
> BER block and set the delay properly.
> When you're not adding any noise, your BER should be 0. So you can try to
> find the delay value this way.
> Then add noise and see how your BER evolves.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
> Jawad
>
>
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[Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[ANTONIO TAMAYO]

Hello,

 I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion. Specifically
I have to calculate the BER with OFDM using different modulations to the
subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the BER numbers. The
configuration I use is in the image attached.
When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem. First I
try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER data. Then I
try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same. Clearly I'm
making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is. In view of the
configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?
Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
correctly.

Thank you all.
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Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] How to calculate BER in different modulations with OFDM using GNURadio Companion

[Jawad Seddar]

Hi Antonio,

The problem might be due to delay introduced by the processing blocks.
Your OFDM modulator and demodulator don't work instantaneously, they take
some time to do their processing and forward their outputs to the next
block in line. Therefore, there is a delay between the output of the OFDM
demod block and the original signal.
What you need to do is add a delay block between your Random source and the
BER block and set the delay properly.
When you're not adding any noise, your BER should be 0. So you can try to
find the delay value this way.
Then add noise and see how your BER evolves.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Jawad


2015-08-31 13:21 GMT+02:00 ANTONIO TAMAYO :

> The configuration to which I refer in the previous email is the
> corresponding to the image attached
>
> 2015-08-31 13:18 GMT+02:00 ANTONIO TAMAYO :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>  I'm doing my College final project about gnuradio companion.
>> Specifically I have to calculate the BER with OFDM using different
>> modulations to the subcarriers. After that, I have to do a graphic with the
>> BER numbers. The configuration I use is in the image attached.
>> When I'm using GRC to calculate BER I always have the same problem. First
>> I try to simulate without introducing any noise and get a BER data. Then I
>> try to introduce AWGN noise and the BER data is the same. Clearly I'm
>> making a mistake, but I'm not able to identify what it is. In view of the
>> configuration used, someone could tell me which are my mistakes?
>> Also, I would like to know how to configure the block Channel Model
>> correctly.
>>
>> Thank you all.
>>
>
>
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