Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] USRP design is free

2011-01-22 Thread John Gilmore
   If you thought you bought a motherboard
 from Ettus under the terms that you were getting schematics and PCB
 files and blah blah blah, fine.  If you didn't get them, point to the
 line item on the receipt or the clause in the contract and take it up
 with Ettus.

I don't understand why people are complaining that the Ettus Research
board designs aren't free.  They are free.  Matt publicly announced
that he intended to release them under the GPL.  Right up to this
day, the schematics (in PDF) are trivially downloadable from
http://www.ettus.com by clicking Download on the homepage.  Even the
schematics for their brand-new products like the N210.

Now I will admit that in the past, Matt and Ettus Research provided
not just PDF schematics (that you'd have to re-enter manually into a
schematics editor) but also netlists, .sch files, a BOM, etc.  They
never published layout files for directly making your own boards.

I don't know when or why the policy changed, and all that were left
were PDF schematics.  Printed PDF schematics certainly don't qualify
as the source code under the GPL (which defines source code as the
preferred format for making modifications).  There was some discussion
on the list at the time of the National Instruments acquisition, in
which Matt basically said, sorry, was reorganizing the web site and
mislaid 'em.  Does anyone know if they ever came back after that
point?

Being less of a trust-the-web kind of guy than some (after being
burned by various things disappearing on me), I saved a copy of the
original USRP1 schematics from its 2005 release:

  Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:45:10 -0800
  From: Matt Ettus m...@ettus.com
  To: discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org
  Subject: [Discuss-gnuradio] USRP schematics and layouts

  I have posted the USRP and daughterboard schematics and layouts on
  http://www.ettus.com -- just go to the download page.

  If you are interested in making your own daughterboards, these will serve as a
  good reference.  More docs will be forthcoming.

If you want a copy of those schematics, I've put a copy here:

  http://www.toad.com/gnuradio/usrp-mboard-20050112_tar.gz
  http://www.toad.com/gnuradio/basic-dboard-20050112_tar.gz
  http://www.toad.com/gnuradio/parts-20050112_tar.gz

I'm sure that many tweaks to the boards have been made since then.  If
you want to make serious use of these, you'd better compare them to
both the current published PDF schematics, and to a recent physical
board.  At the time these were published, the USRP was new and it had
very few daughterboards.

By the way, the USRP board took well over a year to develop, and went
through several prototypes.  Large parts of the free GPL'd GNU Radio
software were developed by Matt and Eric simultaneously while building
these prototypes.  Before the USRP, you needed an expensive and
painful PCI oscilloscope board to use GNU Radio -- and then you needed
an external tuner.  That's what we got the original GNU Radio FM-radio
and HDTV receivers working on.  The USRP revolutionized ham SDR by
being half the price of the PCI board, allowing laptops instead of
only desktop computers to be used for the processing, and allowing
many cheap RF daughterboards to be made.

John Gilmore

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Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] USRP design is free

2011-01-22 Thread Moeller
On 22.01.2011 11:18, John Gilmore wrote:

 I don't understand why people are complaining that the Ettus Research
 board designs aren't free.  They are free.  Matt publicly announced
 that he intended to release them under the GPL.  Right up to this
 day, the schematics (in PDF) are trivially downloadable from
 http://www.ettus.com by clicking Download on the homepage.  Even the
 schematics for their brand-new products like the N210.

I also got the schematics for my TV set and my video recorder.
But that's for service and repair. It's not free hardware.
As far as I know the USRP designs are copyrighted and not under a free
hardware license. Correct?

 Now I will admit that in the past, Matt and Ettus Research provided
 not just PDF schematics (that you'd have to re-enter manually into a
 schematics editor) but also netlists, .sch files, a BOM, etc.  They
 never published layout files for directly making your own boards.

It's a reputable business, for sure. But if it's not under an open
license, it's not open hardware, but commercial hardware.
Imagine GNU software only available as printed books.
To be GPL compatible you have to deliver the source in electronic
form that can compile, not as PDF printed sources. The raw source
of hardware are EDA files.

 I don't know when or why the policy changed, and all that were left
 were PDF schematics.  Printed PDF schematics certainly don't qualify
 as the source code under the GPL (which defines source code as the
 preferred format for making modifications).  There was some discussion

I got no answer to the question if USRP is open hardware or not.
On the website they declared it as open hardware, but from the copyright,
the missing EDA files I doubt it. It seems to be more a commercial
hardware with schematics published (as many other commercial hardware).

 on the list at the time of the National Instruments acquisition, in

I think Gnuradio should not depend too much on such a big company.
That's why I would prefer open and public-domain hardware.

 Being less of a trust-the-web kind of guy than some (after being
 burned by various things disappearing on me), I saved a copy of the
 original USRP1 schematics from its 2005 release:

I found EDA files also here:

http://www.olifantasia.com/drupal2/en/node/12

But is it really public domain source?

 an external tuner.  That's what we got the original GNU Radio FM-radio
 and HDTV receivers working on.  The USRP revolutionized ham SDR by
 being half the price of the PCI board, allowing laptops instead of
 only desktop computers to be used for the processing, and allowing
 many cheap RF daughterboards to be made.

I agree, this type of hardware in combination with Gnuradio software
is really revolutionary. I hope that it will be a completely open standard
in future. If not, we would have to develop alternatives.

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