Re: Cocotron
They would be wrong. GNUstep not an OS. http://www.gnustep.org/information/aboutGNUstep.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: In my experience (from other discussuions about GNUstep and even with my mySTEP project), I think the reasons are manifold. What I have collected is: Another one just appeared in a German Cocoa developer discussion: * GNUstep is an incomplete operating system and not a GUI framework - people simply do not associate GUI with AppKit and Base with Foundation and therefore not GNUstep with Cocoa. I know it, You know it, we all here on this list know it - but people outside don't. That is the key issue to solve... Nikolaus ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Cocotron
Richard Frith-Macdonald schrieb: I actually have no problem at all with the idea of renaming ... in fact, for compatibility it might be nice if we could build them so that they could be used both as libraries and frameworks at the same time, so that cocoa developers could link to them the same way they do on macos. I don't know how to modify makefiles etc to build them that way, but it can't really be all that hard. That is basically the way the mySTEP makefile works. It builds e.g. the AppKit.framework hierarchy (Version/Current etc. incl. all links) through Xcode (but tht can also be done in a Makefile and adds a special Version/Linux-ARM which contains a) a libAppKit.so b) a symbolic link AppKit - libAppKit.so The compiler's CFLAGS gets passed as -L all Frameworks/*.framework/Versions/Current/Linux-ARM so that it finds -lAppKit as libAppKit.so Apple has added special code to gcc to search frameworks in all -F framework paths. I have not yet found a reasonable way to easily emulate this -F flag. -- hns ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Cocotron
Am 28.12.2006 um 17:47 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Another one just appeared in a German Cocoa developer discussion: * GNUstep is an incomplete operating system and not a GUI framework - people simply do not associate GUI with AppKit and Base with Foundation and therefore not GNUstep with Cocoa. I know it, You know it, we all here on this list know it - but people outside don't. That is the key issue to solve... For me, I doubt this can be solved by a simple rename of the frameworks. People would still wait for the remaining parts to come. While the public appearance of the gnustep.org improved a lot over the last year, looking at a introduction page like http:// gnustep.org/experience/Startup.html neither the word Cocoa, AppKit, nor Foundation is even mentioned. If GNUstep wants to attract Cocoa developers, what stops one to point to the similarities to Cocoa: Introduction: GNUstep Startup is a compilation of the GNUstep core packages and gives you about the equivalent of what is known as Cocoa on Apple's Mac OS X, but fully cross platform. ... ... GNUstep Base: Like Cocoa's Foundation, the GNUstep Base library is a library of ... GNUstep Gui: Like Cocoa's AppKit, GNUstep Gui is a library of graphical user ... GNUstep Back: Unlike Cocoa, GNUstep comes with it's own graphics back-end to be more flexible about different platforms ... ... Additionally, I think some Xcode integration would be appreciated a lot. A few words about how to switch from Cocoa to GNUstep (find the other frameworks) and perhaps a Xcode template or two (Hello World- sized apps). Any sane developer will prefer to do one project in _one_ IDE, if that's possible. If they use Xcode already, there's not much point in trying to sell them Gorm or ProjectCenter. Not at the beginning, at least. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Test base library stable branch please
On 12/28/06, Hubert Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:38:16 +, Richard Frith-Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Could people please make an effort to check out the stable branch (http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/gnustep/libs/base/branches/base-1_13_0/) of the base library from subversion and check that none of the backported bugfixes is faulty. I'm just shifting to this (r24274) now. so far that patch and the fix for bug #18107 work here (many thanks, once again!) and I've not noticed any new problems. Users of the Debian packages who don't want to compile it on their own can use my precompiled versions, available at: http://debian.uhoreg.ca/experimental/gnustep/gnustep-base/ You can also use the apt sources line: deb http://debian.uhoreg.ca/experimental/gnustep/ ./ It should be able to install straight on top of the regular Debian packages. Let me know if there are any problems with it. I'll try to keep the packages relatively up to date. Right now, the packages are based on an SVN checkout from last Saturday. superb! I'd be happy to send/build you ppc binaries if it helps, but I imagine you have buildds for that :-) Regards, Paddy ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Cross-compilation/Development tools (was Re: Cocotron)
Markus, You said... Additionally, I think some Xcode integration would be appreciated a lot. A few words about how to switch from Cocoa to GNUstep (find the other frameworks) and perhaps a Xcode template or two (Hello World- sized apps). I agree with this. I believe that the ability to compile from Xcode to another platform using GNUstep is something that should be done. Any sane developer will prefer to do one project in _one_ IDE, if that's possible. If they use Xcode already, there's not much point in trying to sell them Gorm or ProjectCenter. Not at the beginning, at least. Gorm and ProjectCenter are there to provide a way for people to work on projects on Linux, BSD, Windows, or other environments without needing Mac OS X. Since Gorm is able to load and save nibs now, it's possible for a Mac developer to make changes when using GNUstep and bring that back to the Mac or for a developer who doesn't have a Mac to build an application that can be compiled on a Mac. For Mac developers bringing their stuff, they are a convenience. For every other developer who doesn't have a Mac, they are a necessity. That being said, I believe that ProjectCenter needs to incorporate some amount of xcode compatibility into itself. This would allow the developers to load and change Xcode projects from PC. Later, GJC -- Gregory Casamento ## GNUstep Chief Maintainer - Original Message From: Markus Hitter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: discuss-gnustep@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 4:00:01 PM Subject: Re: Cocotron Am 28.12.2006 um 17:47 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Another one just appeared in a German Cocoa developer discussion: * GNUstep is an incomplete operating system and not a GUI framework - people simply do not associate GUI with AppKit and Base with Foundation and therefore not GNUstep with Cocoa. I know it, You know it, we all here on this list know it - but people outside don't. That is the key issue to solve... For me, I doubt this can be solved by a simple rename of the frameworks. People would still wait for the remaining parts to come. While the public appearance of the gnustep.org improved a lot over the last year, looking at a introduction page like http:// gnustep.org/experience/Startup.html neither the word Cocoa, AppKit, nor Foundation is even mentioned. If GNUstep wants to attract Cocoa developers, what stops one to point to the similarities to Cocoa: Introduction: GNUstep Startup is a compilation of the GNUstep core packages and gives you about the equivalent of what is known as Cocoa on Apple's Mac OS X, but fully cross platform. ... ... GNUstep Base: Like Cocoa's Foundation, the GNUstep Base library is a library of ... GNUstep Gui: Like Cocoa's AppKit, GNUstep Gui is a library of graphical user ... GNUstep Back: Unlike Cocoa, GNUstep comes with it's own graphics back-end to be more flexible about different platforms ... ... Additionally, I think some Xcode integration would be appreciated a lot. A few words about how to switch from Cocoa to GNUstep (find the other frameworks) and perhaps a Xcode template or two (Hello World- sized apps). Any sane developer will prefer to do one project in _one_ IDE, if that's possible. If they use Xcode already, there's not much point in trying to sell them Gorm or ProjectCenter. Not at the beginning, at least. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Cocotron
Am 29.12.2006 um 16:36 schrieb Gregory John Casamento: I believe that renaming is a good idea. It would make it clearer what's what. We'll need, of course, to do it when we have a release which breaks backwards compatibility. How about keeping symlinks for the existing stuff being created to ensure that? Later, GJC regards, Lars -- Gregory Casamento ## GNUstep Chief Maintainer - Original Message From: Richard Frith-Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Gregory John Casamento [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; discuss-gnustep@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:05:31 AM Subject: Re: Cocotron On 29 Dec 2006, at 01:37, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: Am 28.12.2006 um 17:37 schrieb Gregory John Casamento: Nikolaus, They would be wrong. GNUstep not an OS. They might be wrong, but it's not their fault. If we want people to get it right we'll have to explain it to them in a catchy way - even if that might include to rename gnustep-base to gnustep- foundation and gnustep-gui to gnustep-appkit. I actually have no problem at all with the idea of renaming ... in fact, for compatibility it might be nice if we could build them so that they could be used both as libraries and frameworks at the same time, so that cocoa developers could link to them the same way they do on macos. I don't know how to modify makefiles etc to build them that way, but it can't really be all that hard. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Cocotron
Yes, that's what I'm thinking I'm just saying it's best to do this after the next release. :) -- Gregory Casamento ## GNUstep Chief Maintainer - Original Message From: Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gregory John Casamento [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Richard Frith-Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; discuss-gnustep@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:33:36 PM Subject: Re: Cocotron Am 29.12.2006 um 16:36 schrieb Gregory John Casamento: I believe that renaming is a good idea. It would make it clearer what's what. We'll need, of course, to do it when we have a release which breaks backwards compatibility. How about keeping symlinks for the existing stuff being created to ensure that? Later, GJC regards, Lars -- Gregory Casamento ## GNUstep Chief Maintainer - Original Message From: Richard Frith-Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Gregory John Casamento [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; discuss-gnustep@gnu.org Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:05:31 AM Subject: Re: Cocotron On 29 Dec 2006, at 01:37, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: Am 28.12.2006 um 17:37 schrieb Gregory John Casamento: Nikolaus, They would be wrong. GNUstep not an OS. They might be wrong, but it's not their fault. If we want people to get it right we'll have to explain it to them in a catchy way - even if that might include to rename gnustep-base to gnustep- foundation and gnustep-gui to gnustep-appkit. I actually have no problem at all with the idea of renaming ... in fact, for compatibility it might be nice if we could build them so that they could be used both as libraries and frameworks at the same time, so that cocoa developers could link to them the same way they do on macos. I don't know how to modify makefiles etc to build them that way, but it can't really be all that hard. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
