Re: using XDPS backend to display NextOpenStep apps remotely

[Gregory Casamento]

Sweet!!!   Please share your progress.  I would love to learn more.

Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c
https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation


On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 17:27 Ondrej Florian  wrote:

> Thanks Gregory.
>
> Communicating between GNUstep and Next is actually not that bad.
> I managed to sync pasteboard by using simple TCP client/server and
> transferring strings, RTF or TIFF data as appropriate.
>
> The Previous has NFS server built-in, so working with files is just matter
> of transforming local paths to network paths and then executing appropriate
> app (using the simple TCP client/server) in Next.
>
> I mapped Previous into its own windowmaker workspace.
> That works reasonably well but it is somewhat limiting for day to day
> usage.
>
> I'll take a look at DSP server as you've suggested and see where it leads
> me ;-).
>
> On 2024-04-28 22:41:53 +0200 Gregory Casamento 
> wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > I had given this some thought some years ago.   Let's go over what you
> said
> > you need...
> >
> > 1) running the next emulator headless...
> >
> > I think this could be accomplished, no problem.   You could either use
> > Previous or qemu (running the intel version of OPENSTEP).
> >
> > 2) Communication via DPS...
> >
> > You don't need XDPS for this.  The XDPS backend for GNUstep was an
> attempt
> > to use the Display Postscript that was going to be integrated into X11,
> but
> > this never happened because the people on the project determined that
> > postscript was better done as a client/app side thing rather than in the
> X
> > server itself.   Here is the discussion...
> >
> >
> https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/graphics/dps.html#:~:text=Display%20Postscript%20
> > (or%20DPS%20for,code%20from%20client%20to%20server.
> >
> > One place you can get information is from the following website, he has
> > done a fair bit of hacking on PS and DPS...
> >
> > https://www.wizards.de/~frank/franksprojects.html
> >
> > Of particular interest is project Akira.   It may be possible to connect
> to
> > the DPS server over a port and communicate with it, but no one has done
> > that and I am not sure the remote capability is present either in the
> > DGS/DPS backend that X was planning.
> >
> > 3) Pasteboard bridging...
> >
> > The pasteboard on the NeXT likely uses the typedstream style of encoding
> > that was common on the NeXT machine.   This encoding has never been
> reverse
> > engineered... one possible resource for this is a python program I found
> > recently that discovers, in part, the structure of typedstream
> archives...
> >
> > https://github.com/dgelessus/python-typedstream.git
> >
> > The tool doesn't get the data it just breaks down what data is there
> which
> > could be instrumental in reverse engineering it.
> >
> > CONCLUSION...
> >
> > As you can see there is a fair amount of work here.   This is all of the
> > information I have discovered over the years on this.  If I find anything
> > else or dig up any other information that might be useful I will let you
> > know.
> >
> > Yours, GC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 2:32 PM Ondrej Florian 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >
> >> I am working on integrating the Next emulator
> >> (http://previous.alternative-system.com/)
> >> into the GSDE  (https://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop).
> >
> >> I understand the original Next/OpenStep could display apps remotely (I
> >> guess that's where NXHost arg comes from).
> >> Does anyone know how this actually worked?
> >> Could it be possible to use XDPS backed for for that?
> >
> >> My hope is that I could run the Next emulator "headless" and display
> >> the original apps along side GNUstep apps in the same desktop (plus
> >> bridging pasteboard etc. ;-).
> >> Kind of like how the classic mode worked on OS X.
> >
> >> Any ideas?
> >
> >> Many thanks,
> >> Ondrej
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: using XDPS backend to display NextOpenStep apps remotely

[Ondrej Florian]

Thanks Gregory.

Communicating between GNUstep and Next is actually not that bad.
I managed to sync pasteboard by using simple TCP client/server and transferring 
strings, RTF or TIFF data as appropriate.

The Previous has NFS server built-in, so working with files is just matter of 
transforming local paths to network paths and then executing appropriate app 
(using the simple TCP client/server) in Next.

I mapped Previous into its own windowmaker workspace.
That works reasonably well but it is somewhat limiting for day to day usage.

I'll take a look at DSP server as you've suggested and see where it leads me 
;-).

On 2024-04-28 22:41:53 +0200 Gregory Casamento  wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> I had given this some thought some years ago.   Let's go over what you said
> you need...
> 
> 1) running the next emulator headless...
> 
> I think this could be accomplished, no problem.   You could either use
> Previous or qemu (running the intel version of OPENSTEP).
> 
> 2) Communication via DPS...
> 
> You don't need XDPS for this.  The XDPS backend for GNUstep was an attempt
> to use the Display Postscript that was going to be integrated into X11, but
> this never happened because the people on the project determined that
> postscript was better done as a client/app side thing rather than in the X
> server itself.   Here is the discussion...
> 
> https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/graphics/dps.html#:~:text=Display%20Postscript%20
> (or%20DPS%20for,code%20from%20client%20to%20server.
> 
> One place you can get information is from the following website, he has
> done a fair bit of hacking on PS and DPS...
> 
> https://www.wizards.de/~frank/franksprojects.html
> 
> Of particular interest is project Akira.   It may be possible to connect to
> the DPS server over a port and communicate with it, but no one has done
> that and I am not sure the remote capability is present either in the
> DGS/DPS backend that X was planning.
> 
> 3) Pasteboard bridging...
> 
> The pasteboard on the NeXT likely uses the typedstream style of encoding
> that was common on the NeXT machine.   This encoding has never been reverse
> engineered... one possible resource for this is a python program I found
> recently that discovers, in part, the structure of typedstream archives...
> 
> https://github.com/dgelessus/python-typedstream.git
> 
> The tool doesn't get the data it just breaks down what data is there which
> could be instrumental in reverse engineering it.
> 
> CONCLUSION...
> 
> As you can see there is a fair amount of work here.   This is all of the
> information I have discovered over the years on this.  If I find anything
> else or dig up any other information that might be useful I will let you
> know.
> 
> Yours, GC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 2:32 PM Ondrej Florian  wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
> 
>> I am working on integrating the Next emulator
>> (http://previous.alternative-system.com/)
>> into the GSDE  (https://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop).
> 
>> I understand the original Next/OpenStep could display apps remotely (I
>> guess that's where NXHost arg comes from).
>> Does anyone know how this actually worked?
>> Could it be possible to use XDPS backed for for that?
> 
>> My hope is that I could run the Next emulator "headless" and display
>> the original apps along side GNUstep apps in the same desktop (plus
>> bridging pasteboard etc. ;-).
>> Kind of like how the classic mode worked on OS X.
> 
>> Any ideas?
> 
>> Many thanks,
>> Ondrej
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: using XDPS backend to display NextOpenStep apps remotely

[Gregory Casamento]

Hey,

I had given this some thought some years ago.   Let's go over what you said
you need...

1) running the next emulator headless...

I think this could be accomplished, no problem.   You could either use
Previous or qemu (running the intel version of OPENSTEP).

2) Communication via DPS...

You don't need XDPS for this.  The XDPS backend for GNUstep was an attempt
to use the Display Postscript that was going to be integrated into X11, but
this never happened because the people on the project determined that
postscript was better done as a client/app side thing rather than in the X
server itself.   Here is the discussion...

https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/graphics/dps.html#:~:text=Display%20Postscript%20
(or%20DPS%20for,code%20from%20client%20to%20server.

One place you can get information is from the following website, he has
done a fair bit of hacking on PS and DPS...

https://www.wizards.de/~frank/franksprojects.html

Of particular interest is project Akira.   It may be possible to connect to
the DPS server over a port and communicate with it, but no one has done
that and I am not sure the remote capability is present either in the
DGS/DPS backend that X was planning.

3) Pasteboard bridging...

The pasteboard on the NeXT likely uses the typedstream style of encoding
that was common on the NeXT machine.   This encoding has never been reverse
engineered... one possible resource for this is a python program I found
recently that discovers, in part, the structure of typedstream archives...

https://github.com/dgelessus/python-typedstream.git

The tool doesn't get the data it just breaks down what data is there which
could be instrumental in reverse engineering it.

CONCLUSION...

As you can see there is a fair amount of work here.   This is all of the
information I have discovered over the years on this.  If I find anything
else or dig up any other information that might be useful I will let you
know.

Yours, GC




On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 2:32 PM Ondrej Florian  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am working on integrating the Next emulator
> (http://previous.alternative-system.com/)
> into the GSDE  (https://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop).
>
> I understand the original Next/OpenStep could display apps remotely (I
> guess that's where NXHost arg comes from).
> Does anyone know how this actually worked?
> Could it be possible to use XDPS backed for for that?
>
> My hope is that I could run the Next emulator "headless" and display
> the original apps along side GNUstep apps in the same desktop (plus
> bridging pasteboard etc. ;-).
> Kind of like how the classic mode worked on OS X.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Many thanks,
> Ondrej
>
>
>
>

-- 
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c
https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation

using XDPS backend to display NextOpenStep apps remotely

[Ondrej Florian]

Hi everyone,

I am working on integrating the Next emulator 
(http://previous.alternative-system.com/)

into the GSDE  (https://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop).

I understand the original Next/OpenStep could display apps remotely (I 
guess that's where NXHost arg comes from).

Does anyone know how this actually worked?
Could it be possible to use XDPS backed for for that?

My hope is that I could run the Next emulator "headless" and display 
the original apps along side GNUstep apps in the same desktop (plus 
bridging pasteboard etc. ;-).

Kind of like how the classic mode worked on OS X.

Any ideas?

Many thanks,
Ondrej

Re: Limited availability from 4/29-5/1

[lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de]

This is a huge loss! All the best to you and your family!

Kind regards,

Lars

> Am 26.04.2024 um 13:43 schrieb Gregory Casamento :
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> I will have limited availability on the above dates.  My mother passed away a 
> couple of days ago and the funeral and burial are on Tuesday and Wednesday 
> next week and I will, likely, be travelling on Monday.
> 
> I will respond to email, but I beg your forgiveness if my response time 
> suffers.
> 
> Yours, GC
> --
> Gregory Casamento
> GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant
> http://www.gnustep.org  - 
> http://heronsperch.blogspot.com 
> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c
> https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
>