Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  dev
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by dvg):

 The "... spirit of not needlessly offering multiple ways to do the same
 thing ..." makes a lot of sense to me.

 However, there's this question on StackOverflow:

 [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/687295 How do I do a not equal in
 Django queryset filtering?]

 Current stats:

 - **555246 views**
 - 859 upvotes
 - bookmarked 179 times

 Just to be clear, this is a **really** high view count: top 0.02% (top
 5500 out of 23 million questions, according to
 https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow)

 Apparently, the alternatives to an `__ne` lookup are not that obvious to
 many people.

 Perhaps it's worth re-opening this issue and, for example, implementing
 the `ne` from the [https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/4.0/howto/custom-
 lookups/#a-lookup-example custom lookup example]?

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by Simon Charette):

 You should be able to use `exclude` for that.


 {{{#!python
 Blog.objects.exclude(
 text_contents='',
 ).update_or_create(
 other_field_indicating_sort=42,
 defaults={yet_another_field: True},
 )
 }}}

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by cpbotha):

 Is there a way to work around the absence of the `ne` operator when one
 wants to do a `get_or_create()` or an `update_or_create()` where one wants
 to select records with a non-blank text field value?

 In other words, how would I do for example
 `Blog.objects.update_or_create(text_contents__ne='',
 other_field_indicating_sort=42, defaults={yet_another_field: True})` ?

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by unaizalakain):

 * cc: unai@… (added)


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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by CarstenF):

 * cc: carsten.fuchs@… (added)


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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by timgraham):

 Please first read through the ticket history as well as the mailing list
 threads linked from the the ticket. If you disagree with the conclusions
 that have been reached so far, you are welcome to argue your case on the
 DevelopersMailingList.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  qs-rf| Triage Stage:  Design
 |  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by merutak):

 Since this is an issue that keeps coming up for me, and I'm seeing it in
 discussions on the web as well as on this ticket, and its usefulness has
 been demonstrated by asmoore82 (and I can give more examples) --

 is there an explanation why this shouldn't be implemented? Is there some
 consideration by which this ticket isn't a good idea?

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by PhiR_42):

 Thanks for that clarification.
 In my case it seems the patch mitigates #14645 though, so I will probably
 take my chances in production.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by akaariai):

 Be warned - not using subqueries might actually produce incorrect results.
 Specifically, .exclude() guarantees that you get the complement of what
 you get with .filter(). There are cases where `field__ne` will not produce
 the complement of `field__exact`. This happens for example if the field
 has NULL values. Both `__exact` and `__ne` will miss such rows, as in SQL
 terms both 'val = NULL' and 'val != NULL' have unknown result.

 As mjtamlyn noted a `__ne` lookup will be fairly straightforward to
 implement in 1.7. Check https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/models
 /custom-lookups/ for details.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by mjtamlyn):

 It is worth noting that in 1.7 this can be written as a custom lookup if
 you need it. I think it might even be the example in the docs.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  master
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by PhiR_42):

 Just for the record, this is very important for a specific use case: when
 you want to add extra select columns from the joined tables. I have an
 ORM-based search form and using exclude will break in many cases because
 it uses more subqueries. Using filter(related__field__ne = something) will
 work as expected while exclude(related__field = something) will generate a
 subquery and remove the possibility of selecting tables.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  SVN
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by Kronuz):

 * cc: Kronuz (added)


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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  SVN
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by SmileyChris):

 * status:  reopened => closed
 * resolution:   => wontfix


Comment:

 Thanks for your thoughts, Adam, but reopening a ticket closed by a core
 developer is a no-no (as mentioned in the
 [https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/internals/contributing/#ticket-
 resolutions contributing documentation]).

 Try bringing this up in the django-developers mailing list.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
 Reporter:  jdetaeye |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  reopened
Component:  Database layer   |  Version:  SVN
  (models, ORM)  |   Resolution:
 Severity:  Normal   | Triage Stage:  Design
 Keywords:  qs-rf|  decision needed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by asmoore82):

 * status:  closed => reopened
 * resolution:  wontfix =>
 * easy:  0 => 1


Comment:

 Apologies for the re-open - but I wasn't sure what would be worse, a re-
 open or a new ticket for the same old discussion...

 I'm going to have to take the position that the absence of a `__ne`
 operator //still//
 represents a functional hole in the querying API, even with consideration
 of exclude()

 > it doesn't make sense to have `__ne` without any other negated queries,

 Ah but there are indeed other negated queries.

 `filter(__gte)` and `exclude(__lt)` are **almost** equivalent.

 Similarly, you can **almost** approximate `__ne` with a hokey `Q(__lt) |
 Q(__gt)` contraption.

 But the real issue lies within that "almost" -- this is what could be
 cause for a separate ticket, but a quick and dirty `__ne` would head the
 issue off altogether ;). Chaining multiple `filter()` and `exclude()`
 calls on multi-valued relationships yields not-so-surprising but
 nonetheless undesired results. To quote from the Django docs:

 > Django has a consistent way of processing `filter()` and `exclude()`
 calls. Everything inside a single `filter()` call is applied
 simultaneously to filter out items matching all those requirements.
 Successive `filter()` calls further restrict the set of objects, but for
 multi-valued relations, they apply to any object linked to the primary
 model, not necessarily those objects that were selected by an earlier
 `filter()` call.

 This consistency is a good thing but it combines with the lack of `__ne`
 to form a problem.

 Say you have blogs with entries with tags and author_counts

 If you want to get all entries that are tagged 'django' with more than 2
 co-authors:
  {{{ Entry.objects.filter(tag__name='django', author_count__gt=2) }}}

 It is similarly easy to get blogs with entries with the above criteria:
  {{{ Blog.objects.filter(entry__tag__name='django',
 entry__author_count__gt=2) }}}

 But what if you want entries tagged 'django' that are **not** co-authored
 by 2:
  {{{ Entry.objects.filter(tag__name='django').exclude(author_count=2) }}}

 But if you want the blogs with those entries, it can't easily be done:
  {{{
 Blog.objects.filter(entry__tag__name='django').exclude(entry__author_count=2)
 }}}
 is **not** the equivalent of the imaginary query:
  {{{ Blog.objects.filter(entry__tag__name='django',
 entry__author_count__ne=2) }}}
 which can currently be approximated with:
  {{{ Blog.objects.filter(Q(entry__author_count__lt=2) |
 Q(entry__author_count__gt=2), entry__tag__name='django') }}}

 You can also get the desired results with a `.extra()` call but let's not
 go there :P.

 This brings us to the most surprising aspect, using the negation operator
 `~` on `Q()` objects that select on multi-valued relations is technically
 possible but can yield the undesired results on the unsuspecting, which
 actually runs sort of contrary to the Documentation quote above.

 Bad Surprise!!:
  {{{ Blog.objects.filter(~Q(entry__author_count=2),
 entry__tag__name='django') }}}
 `^`The more I look at this, the more I think it is cause for a ticket in
 its own right. The fix for this would be to smarten up the `Q()` objects
 so that a NOT operator on `__gt` becomes `__lte`, a NOT on `__lt` becomes
 `__gte`, and so on. But you will ultimately be missing the `__ne` and
 other NOT primitives to fall back on.

 In other words, this ticket is a "could-go-either-way" blocker for `^`that
 more important ticket. I'll do some research on that and make a ticket if
 it hasn't already been addressed.

 Thanks to all who make Django awesome! I'm a database newbie and loving
 it!

 ~Adam sM

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
   Reporter:  jdetaeye   |  Owner:  nobody
   Type:  New| Status:  closed
  feature|  Component:  Database layer
  Milestone: |  (models, ORM)
Version:  SVN|   Severity:  Normal
 Resolution:  wontfix|   Keywords:  qs-rf
   Triage Stage:  Design |  Has patch:  0
  decision needed|Needs tests:  0
Needs documentation:  0  |  Easy pickings:  0
Patch needs improvement:  0  |
  UI/UX:  0  |
-+-
Changes (by carljm):

 * status:  reopened => closed
 * ui_ux:   => 0
 * resolution:   => wontfix
 * easy:   => 0


Comment:

 Based on discussion with Alex and Andrew at the sprint, closing this
 wontfix on the basis that it doesn't make sense to have `__ne` without any
 other negated queries, when we already have .exclude() to express
 negatives.

 Alex promises that he really will fix the SQL generation to not be stupid
 with .exclude().

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
-+-
   Reporter:  jdetaeye   |Owner:  nobody
 Status:  reopened   |Milestone:
  Component:  Database   |  Version:  SVN
  layer (models, ORM)| Keywords:  qs-rf
 Resolution: |Has patch:  0
   Triage Stage:  Design |  Needs tests:  0
  decision needed|
Needs documentation:  0  |
Patch needs improvement:  0  |
-+-

Comment (by anonymous):

 I would love to see this.  Case in point:

 {{{
 return self.filter(
 group__sites=Site.objects.get_current(),
 user=user
 ).exclude(
 group__status=GROUP_REMOVED,
 status=MEMBER_STATUS_BANNED,
 subscription=SUBSCRIPTION_NEVER
 )
 }}}

 Generates:

 {{{
SELECT ...
INNER JOIN ...
WHERE (
   "groups_group_sites"."site_id" = 1  AND
   "groups_membership"."user_id" = 17  AND NOT (
  "groups_membership"."status" = 99  AND
  "groups_group"."status" = 3  AND (
 "groups_membership"."subscription" = 0  AND
 "groups_membership"."subscription" IS NOT NULL
  )
   )
) ORDER BY "groups_membership"."status" DESC
 }}}

 Would like to see instead:

 {{{
 "groups_group_sites"."site_id" = 1  AND
 "groups_membership"."user_id" = 17  AND
 "groups_membership"."status" != 99  AND
 "groups_group"."status" != 3  AND
 "groups_membership"."subscription" != 0  AND
 "groups_membership"."subscription" IS NOT NULL
 }}}

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Django 
The Web framework for perfectionists with deadlines.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
---+
  Reporter:  jdetaeye  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened  | Milestone:
 Component:  Database layer (models, ORM)  |   Version:  SVN   
Resolution:|  Keywords:  qs-rf 
 Stage:  Design decision needed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by adrian):

  * status:  closed => reopened
  * resolution:  wontfix =>

Comment:

 I'm reopening this. See http://groups.google.com/group/django-
 developers/browse_thread/thread/78767bab3f753ef0

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
---+
  Reporter:  jdetaeye  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  closed| Milestone:
 Component:  Database layer (models, ORM)  |   Version:  SVN   
Resolution:  wontfix   |  Keywords:  qs-rf 
 Stage:  Design decision needed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Comment (by Jacques Mattheij ):

 In case somebody else runs in to this, non-emtpy text fields evaluate to >
 a blank field.

 So you can do xxx_gt='' to exclude rows with blank fields.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
---+
  Reporter:  jdetaeye  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  closed| Milestone:
 Component:  Database layer (models, ORM)  |   Version:  SVN   
Resolution:  wontfix   |  Keywords:  qs-rf 
 Stage:  Design decision needed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by gregplaysguitar):

  * status:  reopened => closed
  * resolution:  => wontfix

Comment:

 Sorry, I've just realised I can negate my problem in
 http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/5763 using isnull instead, so ignore
 the above comment.

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Re: [Django] #5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator

[Django]

#5763: Queryset doesn't have a "not equal" filter operator
---+
  Reporter:  jdetaeye  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened  | Milestone:
 Component:  Database layer (models, ORM)  |   Version:  SVN   
Resolution:|  Keywords:  qs-rf 
 Stage:  Design decision needed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by gregplaysguitar):

  * status:  closed => reopened
  * resolution:  wontfix =>

Comment:

 Unfortunately, while exclude is ''supposed'' to do everything a "not
 equal" operator would, it doesn't in practice - see
 http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/5763 for details. This is technically
 a problem with exclude(), but adding a "not equal" operator would negate
 the problem.

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