Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, Alberto Zuin - Liste wrote: Hi Jaromil, thank you for the gift! and thank you for the giftlab! 3 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Jaromil, thank you for the gift! Now, I personally hope that this can put an end to every flame about the fake project and you ask for money for nothing. Have a nice weekend, Alberto Il 14/02/2015 9:36 pm, Jaromil ha scritto: re all, Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I won't tell, but he is the one hosting the gitlab, running very well. http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.asc http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.sha do not use this in production, this is an internal preview (not even an alpha) for the Devuan enthusiastic community and for those wondering if we'll really make it: yes we will. Journalists and DWN editors reading: please do not link this. We will have another more public release soon :^) Let it be a private valentine Also please note that this is not yet rebranded, so it says Debian almost everywhere. Didn't find the time for that yet. default user is 'devuan' password is always 'devuan', also for root sources are those of Debian 8 RC1 jessie plus the mods here: https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base and packed with the SDK https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-sdk happy hacking ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJU4FkgAAoJEAzproFXfBTI1NgP/RZICg3x5y7cvILnyOoCTkBr /CCklMA/bM9dQLb8BlU90hxmQKof3KUMtub7Eh/ijvuhoJUUquoqoB8GRUMjtN0s sUgIhCwFsf0LIlutQWC0IHFiRgvu9BV/bACVoveARhgJhVPBGuE0d3pVkHeSk/Pp QZ7YpiYCwh2V8jsArVzTlkYWyA7mLEvIIq5fBe52BU68hwJgbYBRd7ue748Qr9FC HdViRAcjlz1voV0b9Bn6sKMFzvxAAmeK+rZ8TPDLr/pYZ64W9/lJ9fuMSXHOF5+2 yJ2K4IR9C2/cHVoC9jYkxesQXBYpBqaHry7blHshf/q1Jw4oIlqI8T2QidZGFaqz b8eaZ/zxGdse0HQb2sowjMXbI//EL2pkqGMTPJ7osPtxGcspo7mHsN3Z/jjZ3n6f jIj7KoVNGg2Yaq/Yqe6RxLQ3fBsCRPEM16B8gjOo46HIXPqn3oZxyJbx3NgeU6pz ecXNE1dHhKtQlCiTqltjLTCR8yGEuDLi2/1IKuwxhvvMB1lOK1ryFDIujnX5kLxK 90nGejwio3Tv+/vNdWE1ghQ2CavLEQsE6XkYQc5cvIisQkVlYRSi7EdnMe1OmeGC KmIrptdlLVDGzqp62CkmETw00QunPDGY81r7tXhlbyaaH/AF6+hHNvV5Osq4Swp+ LPCYi7ulpOFjy948xVwD =NdIp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre-alpha-valentine on qemu
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 02:52:12AM +, KatolaZ wrote: Hi guys, a few simple steps to have Devuan-pre-alpha-valentine installed and running on qemu: 0)# wget http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso; 1)$ apt-get install qemu-kvm Well, naturally it was: 0)$ wget http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso; and 1)# apt-get install qemu-kvm Sorry, but I was almost asleep :) HH KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
As you may have read, Linus Torvalds considers to call the next Linux release 4.0 instead of 3.20. Many people have been wondering why, but there is one quite radical feature hidden in the new version.- OverlayFS now supports multiple read-only layers.- Many Intel DRM graphics driver improvements.- Improvements to KVM for bettering Linux virtualization.- TPM 2.0 support for trusted computing.- Live kernel patching support via KDBUS.- Fixes to the F2FS file-system.- Some basic changes to XFS.- An important AMD Hawaii GPU re-clocking fix.- Full IBM z13 system support.- Continued support improvements to Sony's PlayStation 3 with Linux even though Sony no longer supports the Other OS functionality.- Sound improvements, particularly around bettering the support for HP laptops.- The usual plethora of ACPI / power management updates.- New and updated input drivers and new HID hardware support.- Numerous media driver improvements.nbsp;Kernel live patching makes KDBUS and systemD support mandatory! Who will maintain our kernel fork? Or maybe we should just move on to OpenSolaris, the only true Unix left? We have been warning people of this happening, but they did not listen! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
I'd go for: 1. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative-Galaxy-v1.5-SVG.svg or a spinoff of this, seems sober and not too flashy, i like it 2. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan-D-Inspired-2.svg if the swirl could be improved and, as a suggestion, the other letters could be non-latin Btw, is there a roadmap? Or is devuan just gonna be debian without systemd? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Some downgrades may be needed e.g. cups Re: Towards systemd-free packages
Am Dienstag, 3. Februar 2015 schrieb Steve Litt: On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 20:15:50 +0100 Nikolaus Klepp dr.kl...@gmx.at wrote: Am Dienstag, 3. Februar 2015 schrieb Steve Litt: On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:14:10 +0100 Godefridus Daalmans fr...@daalmansdata.eu wrote: Hi, Jude Nelson posted an enormous rdepends list, of what packages would need to be changed for Devuan Jessie,but from my own experimentation I concluded that it wasn't so bad if we are willing to give up on a few other things: - Give up on GNOME for the moment This brings up the point that we should start lobbying upstreams not to depend on systemd. And, of course, dropping Gnome gives us some credibility in that matter. Obviously, upstreams won't care what Devuan does, but if others start following in our footsteps, that's a different story. SteveT I think it was said before, but I throw TDE in the bag. Contrary to GNOME it is fast, configurable and consumes by todays standards minimal resources. Nik Timing is everything. mr_chris on #golug at Freenode was just singing the praises of TDE an hour ago. He tells me TDE has no nepomuk, no akonadi, and performs relatively well. Personnally, I removed every KDE app and library from my computer many years ago to Keep from Krashing (tm), but perhaps a certain subset of KDE apps and libraries wouldn't crash and hang the computer if run from TDE. Nik, how reasonable would it be to use TDE without KDE apps? Would doing so still yield benefits over and above, let's say, Xfce? Does TDE have any systemd dependencies? Thanks, SteveT Hi Steve! When you remove all extra stuff from TDE then you end up with a sytem thats still superior to XFCE. I'll just hilight the things I like most (only the base system, not the extra applications): - one cental configuriation tool for all aspects of TDE. - very fine grained configuration - single mouse click works as one would expect. - window behaviour configurable from gerneral down to single window class or title - session manager works (well, firefox does not play nicely, but then, where does it?) - konqeror simply works (as filemanager, KHTML has not been replaced by webkit but it's WIP when I recall correctly) - kmail. fast, reliable, and uses maildir (one file per mail), a big plus when it comes to backups and doing neet stuff with mails. - has a desktop (downside: xsnow does not play nice). - acessability simply works. (Sticky keys, self releasing keys, ) - no nepomuck / zeitgeist. - all configs cleartext. I like it so much that I still try to get it working on FreeBSD - currently I'm running FVWM :-) Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Please!! revive Bastille hardening tool for Devuan
Isn't Bastille a set of scripts to harden Debian security? Well, IMMHO, Devuan shouldn't need such a collection if said security was default (which should be). Cheers, Nuno ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: However, I don't think this is a priority now. I still cannot imagine why someone would want to be strictly anonymous while accessing that. You can replace anonymous with systemd, you know? It's a matter of choice. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Some downgrades may be needed e.g. cups Re: Towards systemd-free packages
Am Dienstag, 3. Februar 2015 schrieb Steve Litt: On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:14:10 +0100 Godefridus Daalmans fr...@daalmansdata.eu wrote: Hi, Jude Nelson posted an enormous rdepends list, of what packages would need to be changed for Devuan Jessie,but from my own experimentation I concluded that it wasn't so bad if we are willing to give up on a few other things: - Give up on GNOME for the moment This brings up the point that we should start lobbying upstreams not to depend on systemd. And, of course, dropping Gnome gives us some credibility in that matter. Obviously, upstreams won't care what Devuan does, but if others start following in our footsteps, that's a different story. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I think it was said before, but I throw TDE in the bag. Contrary to GNOME it is fast, configurable and consumes by todays standards minimal resources. Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] About separate mailing lists
Talking about something else, it seems that the list is becoming two-fold. On one hand, it becomes concentrated on development, while at the same time it discusses more philosophical issues. Maybe is it the moment to separate into a dev list and a users list? Nope. I think both being together is a strength, not a weekness. It's a way for developers to be in tune with what the (less techicaly inclined) users need/want, and for the users to receive some developer sensibility via osmosis. Or something like that. Just my 0.2 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] John Goerzen asks, Has modern Linux lost its way?
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:17:36 -0600 T.J. Duchene t.j.duch...@gmail.com wrote: John clearly states that he believes the problems are distinct from systemd. While many here may not necessarily agree, I do agree that various aspects of the system have become, if not complex, at least more opaque than in the past.” I totally agree. I think systemd is just the worst of many entangled monolithic monsters, and is a symptom of the true problem. The preceding sentence does not in any way lessen my resolve to fight systemd any way I can. You're right. I think the problems, and frankly systemd as well, stem from the fact that the community has changed. I've been working with computers and writing code for a very long time, over 25 years, so I think that I am somewhat qualified to make that statement. Agreed. There was a time when the “lingua franca” of the community was C. If you were going to be part of the community, it was expected that you would become proficient with it. Since everyone understood C, no part of Unix was opaque, from the kernel to userspace. Things have changed. Now, people use anything from Python to C#, with a minority using C regularly. Most are kernel developers. Suddenly, everything not written in the favorite language of the day becomes opaque. I agree that use of C has lessened, and that less of us understand C today. I disagree that this is necessarily the cause of the problem. Personally, I think that anything that *can* be written in Python, Perl, Ruby or Lua *should* be written in one of those languages, because doing so limits buffer overruns to those remaining in the language. Also, software written in those, especially Python, which has a rich library of standard libraries, has fewer dependencies that need to be installed. And yes, feature for feature, they're more readable than C. Also, the root cause of the gross overcomplication isn't that many can't read and write C, it's that many are clueless of the operation of a computer beyond recipes of mouse clicks. Naturally, such clueless users don't know C, but the real problem is they don't know directories, don't know pipes, don't know elementary Unix filters, etc. I'm not trying to start a flame war by saying this, but I think at least 1/3rd of the problems people have with systemd is the fact it is written in C. I'd blame it more on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#mediaviewer/File:Systemd_components.svg It's the architecture, plain and simple. It's a V'jer like conglomeration of clinging junk. Worse yet, it subtly changes simple softwares that you could formerly just plug into the system like electronic ICs. With systemd, in for a penny, in for a pound. Plus take a look at the plans Lennart has for you: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html If you like DIY Linux, you hate systemd, because systemd has removed interchangeable parts, replacing them with parts exactly machined for the systemd system, and there are no other such parts. Well, there wouldn't have been if it weren't for the Devuan project, and I thank you all for that. If it was written in Python, I have my doubts that it would have created such a stink. There are large, complex pieces of system software written in Python scattered all over the Linux community and no one treats that as an apocalypse, even when they cause huge stability problems. I personally know of no Python *system* software, but even if there were, I'll bet you such Python programs are single units that can be easily replaced by a good programmer. Such a replacement can implement the functionality in a different language, or even add specific needed extra functionalities. Contrast this with systemd, which requires knowledge of all sorts of other things, and Lennart's plan is to have systemd incorporate more and more of our computers' functionality, leading to a situation where 1 hour quickie programs are a thing of the past. “I think what has bothered me the most over the past few years is the churn and what sometimes seems to be adoption and then replacement of a technology without explanation” I'd be more succinct about the churn. Most of the churn I see is pandering to the point and click crowd, trying to make Linux ever more like Windows and Mac, so that the brainless can use it. As opposed to what we used to do: Offer a sane and discoverable system that brought new users to a new understanding of computers. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs profited from convincing people that they're too stupid to use a straightforward interface. We have no such profit motive, and therefore should not pander to the stupidest of new Linux tire-kickers. This is symptomatic of the way Linux is developed in distributions. Rather than agreeing to common standards, each goes their own way. This is not a bad thing – not at all – but it tends to be disruptive from time to time. Lucky thing for me that they differ. I
Re: [Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
hi On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, jo...@trash-mail.com wrote: As you may have read, Linus Torvalds considers to call the next Linux release 4.0 instead of 3.20. Many people have been wondering why, but yea read that back a year ago. makes sense. there is one quite radical feature hidden in the new version. - OverlayFS now supports multiple read-only layers. FINALLY! and I hope btrfs and zfs advance. I use the latter, real good stuff raidz and snapshotz to the masses - Continued support improvements to Sony's PlayStation 3 with Linux even though Sony no longer supports the Other OS functionality. very interesting! is there already a signed firmware by those who cracked it? just like it was with the xbox? I guess so... there is plenty of those around, are they still low on RAM? Kernel live patching makes KDBUS and systemD support mandatory! Who will maintain our kernel fork? Or maybe we should just move on to OpenSolaris, the only true Unix left? We have been warning people of this happening, but they did not listen! trololololo ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop
Dragan FOSS dragan.foss at gmx.com writes: i would be most grateful therefore if you could make it much more convenient for me to be able to do this, whilst still keeping all the debian, TDE and deb-multimedia repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list that i have today, by keeping the devuan project strictly focussed on providing alternative packages instead of polarising the GNU/Linux community even further than pottering has already done (by devuan not creating an ubuntu-style total distro fork). This IS already done :) good! i guess you may have seen that i am advocating that the devuan team keep it this way, and do not attempt - with the limited resources that you have - to extend to an ubuntu-style fork. it will overwhelm you, as well as make it harder for people to consider trusting devuan, harder for them to consider returning to debian, and more besides - all of it bad. l. - [root at trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# inxi -r Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] recommendation for consideration: keep as close to debian as possible
possible From:Luke Leighton l...@lkcl.net To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Today 01:44:25 PM i believe you may be severely underestimating the workload that the current debian maintainers handle. there are over 35,000 packages, and i believe something like 1,000 maintainers. there are something like 12 ports to different architectures, and the mirrors (of which there are around a hundred) require something like 160 gigabytes of space and tend to redline whatever network bandwidth they're allowed, particularly during upgrades. Actually, with respect, I'm not ignoring the size of Debian. I understand perfectly well what is involved. I do admit, I could have explained myself better. I'm all for using their upstream work, and even establishing a good working relationship with them for passing patches back to them. I'm not suggesting that Devuan start over. What I am saying is that Devuan should not concern itself with the day to day Debian's problems, such as Debian's release schedules or packaging decisions. In that respect Devuan needs to go its own way. The less Devuan feels pressured to keep in sync with Debian, the easier it will be for Devuan with a much smaller developer base. to expect even a medium-sized team to cope with 10 to 100 times the workload which the current debian team handle, by dropping the entire debian repository onto them and expecting them to be able to recompile it and maintain it is... i think you'd agree, completely unrealistic. Yes, I would. If you will humor me, I would also point out that most of the people interested in Devuan or even Debian will be aiming for servers, not desktops. If they want something more than that, they will probably go elsewhere, because Debian's (and by extension Devuan's) repository is not refreshed fast enough for their taste. In that sense, user applications like Gimp and Libreoffice become less important. Personally, I think that Devuan could, even possibly should, consign them to a rolling release repo to be updated whenever Devuan has the time. The official Devuan release could just be the core Linux system, and a selection of the most reliable service daemons, which is something much more reasonable to ask from a smaller team. Furthermore, I know the decision has been made and I am not trying to change it, but I'd like to express the opinion that Devuan being based on Debian testing makes things much harder than they need to be. I would have chosen to base Devuan on Debian stable instead. Before anyone protests, please consider that: 1. If Devuan was based on Debian stable, then Devuan would not be hostage to whatever release schedule Debian has. If Debian Jesse is a year late - which has happened to Debian before - then Devuan is a year late, if only by proxy. 2. As Jesse stands right now, you have to excise systemd before Jesse is even finished, which makes doing so something of a moving target, especially if Debian changes chains of packages upstream, making you have to start the same process all over again. 3. With the exception of a few things, generally speaking user applications do not use systemd and are virtually agnostic, even in binary form. They will usually run reliably on any Linux as long as the core system libraries meet a minimum. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Isaac Dunham ibid...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:28:38PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: And I've rebuilt util-linux and removed libsystemd0 already. ohh, you are so lucky! can i add you to the list of successes? Sure, if you want to keep count. thanks. and also help people narrow down easier ways to achieve removal of libsystemd0 Does alsactl init do anything for you, by some chance? I just spent a day figuring out that that was what I needed to do, after I realized I didn't have sound on a several month old system. doh! well it's related to qjackctl - i have a particularly complex audio setup. bypassing jackd and asking vlc to go directly to the alsa hardware works fine. ... i'll work it out :) l. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
No one pushing this seems to be really concerned with the security, or the safety of the user interfaces. there are a few ways this could change. - a single senator/congressman has their ride hacked/bricked - several people die in fiery car wrecks from bad code or a virus - a self-propagating virus bricks millions of cars so... the question is if should we wait for bad things to happen to lots of people or should we brick one jerk's limo. --Gravis On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:50:53PM -0500, Jude Nelson wrote: IVI == In-Vehicle Infotainment. The stuff that runs your new car's UI. The thing that scares me because I suspect it's just not as well debugged as the software that used to run a car only a few years ago? Well, what scares me it that the entertainment hardware doesn't seem to be isolated from the more essential stuff that actually, you know, drives that car. And the entertainment stuff is just being piled on willy-nilly. And there are now touch screens that you have to use while driving. Whatever happened to keeping one's eyes on the road? No one pushing this seems to be really concerned with the security, or the safety of the user interfaces. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Isaac Dunham ibid...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 05:49:54PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: http://slashdot.org/submission/4203115/removing-libsystemd0-from-a-live-running-debian-system if anyone would like to help get the word out, as a way to actively engage more developers and end-users to give them their right to choose what software to run, please do consider hitting the + button on the above submission. Done, I think. (I use NoScript, so...I guess the + button sticking means it worked...) it's up and happily collecting comments. Reading it I noticed dbus, pulseaudio, policykit-1 - I only recompiled util-linux. Checked in Aptitude, and I don't have dbus installed. (I have libdbus installed, but not the dbus daemon, pulse, or policykit.) .. you are lucky :) i run a wide range of software as part of my business so i have quite a bit more around. boot system into non-functional state due to udev not working? Huh? udev works fine for me (Debian Jessie). bizarre! can you remember if, as a result of recompiling and installing the util-linux packages, initrds were regenerated at all? (it's done in a postinst hook somewhere) And I've rebuilt util-linux and removed libsystemd0 already. ohh, you are so lucky! can i add you to the list of successes? Or are you trying to remove udev as well? no i'm not - it just... the entire system froze on me at checking the udev entries. but, at the time, i didn't have makedev installed. well... there may be hope then that i can actually get udev back up and running. this would be good as sound is not coming out of the speakers at the moment. volume's set, etc. etc. - just no sound. l. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 16:27:55 + From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop Message-ID: CAPweEDzEqvvwy=3miokFo9Co_T4k+BzAFn=A=fa0aurpm1j...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 the reason why i am informing you of this is as encouragement so that you know it *can be done*. i would be most grateful therefore if you could make it much more convenient for me to be able to do this, whilst still keeping all the debian, TDE and deb-multimedia repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list that i have today, by keeping the devuan project strictly focussed on providing alternative packages instead of polarising the GNU/Linux community even further than pottering has already done (by devuan not creating an ubuntu-style total distro fork). This IS already done :) - [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# inxi -r Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie main contrib non-free deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie-backports main contrib non-free deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie-backports main contrib non-free Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/trios.list deb http://mirror.org.rs/trios/ mia main non-systemd-testing zfs [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy systemd systemd: Installed: (none) Candidate: (none) Package pin: (not found) Version table: 215-11 -1 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy libsystemd0 libsystemd0: Installed: (none) Candidate: (none) Package pin: (not found) Version table: 215-11 -1 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy lightdm lightdm: Installed: 1.10.3-3 Candidate: 1.10.3-3 Version table: *** 1.10.3-3 0 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy xfce4 xfce4: Installed: 4.10.1 Candidate: 4.10.1 Version table: *** 4.10.1 0 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy skype skype:i386: Installed: 4.3.0.37-1 Candidate: 4.3.0.37-1 Version table: *** 4.3.0.37-1 0 1001 http://mirror.org.rs/trios/ mia/main i386 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# -- https://foss.rs/threads/trios-mia-openrc-zfs-rc1.3057 DL link: http://mirror.org.rs/image/TRIOS-Mia-RC1-Build_2015-01-08.iso ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop
Gravis ring3k at adaptivetime.com writes: * returning to manual keyboard and mouse configuration in Xorg where did it move to before? i never removed the manual keyboard and mouse configuration options that i had installed years back. however as xorg has grown more features, one of them included automatic udev device detection, meaning that you *could* run with a completely blank (or even missing) xorg.conf. however, many people did not remove their old (manual) keyboard and mouse configuration sections, so what the xorg team did was to add an entry (which defaults to on) Use auto configuration. when this flag is set, any entries which use kbd or mouse drivers are COMPLETELY IGNORED. unfortunately, then, if you disable udev (which i did), xorg doesn't detect a mouse or keyboard - or in fact *ANY* input device - AT ALL. so, as documented in the document i wrote, you have to (a) set a flag to tell xorg to stop using auto-device detection and (b) return to the situation that everyone put up with before auto-device detection support was added. personally i see this as being no hardship at all. within hours i have retrained my hands to sit further away from the now completely hyper-sensitive trackpad that activates without my consent to move the cursor to completely random positions on screen. if it really annoys me too much i will simply rmmod bcm5974. problem solved :) in fact, why don't i do that right now :) l. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
The thing that scares me because I suspect it's just not as well debugged as the software that used to run a car only a few years ago? You overestimate the amount of debugging that goes into in-car software. I once had an Alfa Romeo with a buggy implementation for it's tiptronic gearbox. The gearbox going from 5th to reverse whilst doing 100MPH is not a funny experience... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
What exactly does IPC have to do with patching? the patching is done via IPC. --Gravis On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Vlad 2389...@gmail.com wrote: What exactly does IPC have to do with patching? On Feb 15, 2015 5:22 PM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: hi On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, jo...@trash-mail.com wrote: As you may have read, Linus Torvalds considers to call the next Linux release 4.0 instead of 3.20. Many people have been wondering why, but yea read that back a year ago. makes sense. there is one quite radical feature hidden in the new version. - OverlayFS now supports multiple read-only layers. FINALLY! and I hope btrfs and zfs advance. I use the latter, real good stuff raidz and snapshotz to the masses - Continued support improvements to Sony's PlayStation 3 with Linux even though Sony no longer supports the Other OS functionality. very interesting! is there already a signed firmware by those who cracked it? just like it was with the xbox? I guess so... there is plenty of those around, are they still low on RAM? Kernel live patching makes KDBUS and systemD support mandatory! Who will maintain our kernel fork? Or maybe we should just move on to OpenSolaris, the only true Unix left? We have been warning people of this happening, but they did not listen! trololololo ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] successfully manually removing systemd and libsystemd0 from debian and still maintaining a working desktop
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 08:44:22PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
Gravis ring3k at adaptivetime.com writes:
* returning to manual keyboard and mouse configuration in Xorg
where did it move to before?
i never removed the manual keyboard and mouse configuration
options that i had installed years back. however as xorg has
grown more features, one of them included automatic udev
device detection, meaning that you *could* run with a
completely blank (or even missing) xorg.conf.
however, many people did not remove their old (manual) keyboard
and mouse configuration sections, so what the xorg team did was
to add an entry (which defaults to on) Use auto configuration.
when this flag is set, any entries which use kbd or mouse drivers
are COMPLETELY IGNORED.
unfortunately, then, if you disable udev (which i did), xorg
doesn't detect a mouse or keyboard - or in fact *ANY* input
device - AT ALL.
so, as documented in the document i wrote, you have to (a)
set a flag to tell xorg to stop using auto-device detection
and (b) return to the situation that everyone put up with
before auto-device detection support was added.
Thanks to your write-up, I've gotten Xorg working sans udev
(actually, simulated via overmounting with tmpfs and running mdev).
FYI, *this* was why I included devinfo in libsysdev:
for d in /dev/input/*; do DEV=`devinfo $d`; [ -e $DEV/name ] { echo $d;
cat $DEV/name; } ; done
/dev/input/event0
AT Translated Set 2 keyboard
/dev/input/event1
Video Bus
/dev/input/event10
SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad
/dev/input/event2
Power Button
/dev/input/event3
Lid Switch
/dev/input/event4
Sleep Button
/dev/input/event5
Power Button
/dev/input/event6
HDA Digital PCBeep
/dev/input/event7
HDA Intel Mic
/dev/input/event8
HDA Intel Headphone
/dev/input/event9
Acer Crystal Eye webcam
/dev/input/mouse0
SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad
It makes it a whole lot simpler when you don't have to guess what a
device is.
The trick is that input devices have a description at
/sys/dev/char/major:minor/device/name
HTH,
Isaac Dunham
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Re: [Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 03:31:02AM +0200, Martijn Dekkers wrote: The thing that scares me because I suspect it's just not as well debugged as the software that used to run a car only a few years ago? You overestimate the amount of debugging that goes into in-car software. I once had an Alfa Romeo with a buggy implementation for it's tiptronic gearbox. The gearbox going from 5th to reverse whilst doing 100MPH is not a funny experience... You understand. It'll only get worse. -- hendrik, ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
