Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

[KatolaZ]

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:16:18PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote:

[cut]

> >
> > Simple enough to change this into:
> >
> > user@devuan:~$ echo "xfce4-session" >> ~/.xinitrc  
> 
> [rw@doppelsaurus]~#cat .xinitrc 
> xsetroot -solid grey36
> exec xterm

Ahahahahahahah :D

HND

KatolaZ

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[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
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Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

[Svante Signell]

On Tue, 2016-01-12 at 08:48 -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:30:16 +0100
> Florian Zieboll  wrote:
> 
> > > user@devuan:~$ echo "xfce4-session" > ~/.xinitrc  
> > 
> > I already noticed this in your upgrade guide – and especially then it's not
> > unlikely to break things when using this kind of redirection, as a .xinitrc
> > might already exist. Regarding the unexperienced audience you appear to
> > target with your guides, I think there should be at least a footnote that
> > informs about this risk and perhaps also mentions that this is called a
> > "redirection", as a starting point for a related websearch.
> 
> Simple enough to change this into:
> 
> user@devuan:~$ echo "xfce4-session" >> ~/.xinitrc  

Normally you use exec and an absolute path to start the window manager in
.xinitrc:
exec /usr/bin/xfce4-session
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Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

[Florian Zieboll]

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 04:52:27 -
"dev1fanboy"  wrote:

> minimal xorg and xfce4 install guides are now available

Hallo Chillfan,

when you think that your documentation has become somewhat stable and is
not prone to bigger changes anymore, I'd like to offer to translate
some more of it to german. I am not really sure, how necessary this is,
as i think most people "here" do understand english more or less. I guess
that spanish, french, portuguese, russian, chinese and of course arabic
are the more widely spoken languages...

Perhaps you want to send a note to the list, when (which) documents are
ready to translate.

Ahoi,

Florian

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Re: [DNG] Linux 4.4 and KMS

[Rainer Weikusat]

Didier Kryn  writes:
> Le 13/01/2016 18:44, Rainer Weikusat a écrit :
>> Didier Kryn  writes:
>>>  Just received "Linux Update". One of the articles is about the
>>> release of kernel version 4.4.
>>>
>>>  Included in the new kernel is "A new kernel mode-setting (KMS)
>>> driver from Broadcom".
>>>
>>>  I gave a look at Wikipedia about Kernel-based mode-setting. The
>>> article in the French Wikipedia states that, amongst other advantages,
>>> KMS permits  to *run the X server without root priviledge*.
>> Kernel mode-setting has existed for a while and it's mainly supposed to
>> enable people to "do graphics" without having to resort to writing
>> another X driver, thereby making it yet more difficult to sell wayland.
>> ___
>>
>
> Sure it's not new, but for Broadcom. But why the hell do we still
> have the only alternative of either run the X server with root
> priviledge or to run it under Systemd?

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Non_root_Xorg
http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2010-June/010511.html

'Kernel mode-setting' really just adds interfaces to the kernel which
enables userspace software to request that some 'graphics card' is
programmed/ configured in order to do XXX, as opposed to 'the userspace
software' (aka 'the X server') accessing the hardware directly in order
to do this.

As far as I can tell, systemd only comes into play here in order to
change 'device node access permissions' automatically and (indirectly)
relies on KMS itself.

BTW: Considering that X has worked 'as root' for over 20 years and the
sky didn't fall, why's that suddenly a serious problem? Especially
nowadays, where 'devices running an X server and used by "untrusted
users"' are virtually extinct?

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Re: [DNG] Linux 4.4 and KMS

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi,

Eh, root is dangerous... Users should never ever use root: there are
other safer alternatives to that, like many modern Operating Systems
,like for example, Windows, Android, OSX. They all think for
themselves, updating themselves automatically without users having to
know and understand what is happening. This is the way forward, it is
the only sane way of using a computer. Those who cannot grasp this
basic fact, are deluded to think they are still operating a computer
from the seventies with green text on a black background.
[/sarcasm]

Edward

On 13/01/2016, Rainer Weikusat  wrote:
> Didier Kryn  writes:
>> Le 13/01/2016 18:44, Rainer Weikusat a écrit :
>>> Didier Kryn  writes:
  Just received "Linux Update". One of the articles is about the
 release of kernel version 4.4.

  Included in the new kernel is "A new kernel mode-setting (KMS)
 driver from Broadcom".

  I gave a look at Wikipedia about Kernel-based mode-setting. The
 article in the French Wikipedia states that, amongst other advantages,
 KMS permits  to *run the X server without root priviledge*.
>>> Kernel mode-setting has existed for a while and it's mainly supposed to
>>> enable people to "do graphics" without having to resort to writing
>>> another X driver, thereby making it yet more difficult to sell wayland.
>>> ___
>>>
>>
>> Sure it's not new, but for Broadcom. But why the hell do we still
>> have the only alternative of either run the X server with root
>> priviledge or to run it under Systemd?
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Non_root_Xorg
> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2010-June/010511.html
>
> 'Kernel mode-setting' really just adds interfaces to the kernel which
> enables userspace software to request that some 'graphics card' is
> programmed/ configured in order to do XXX, as opposed to 'the userspace
> software' (aka 'the X server') accessing the hardware directly in order
> to do this.
>
> As far as I can tell, systemd only comes into play here in order to
> change 'device node access permissions' automatically and (indirectly)
> relies on KMS itself.
>
> BTW: Considering that X has worked 'as root' for over 20 years and the
> sky didn't fall, why's that suddenly a serious problem? Especially
> nowadays, where 'devices running an X server and used by "untrusted
> users"' are virtually extinct?
>
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>
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[DNG] Linux 4.4 and KMS

[Didier Kryn]

Just received "Linux Update". One of the articles is about the 
release of kernel version 4.4.


Included in the new kernel is "A new kernel mode-setting (KMS) 
driver from Broadcom".


I gave a look at Wikipedia about Kernel-based mode-setting. The 
article in the French Wikipedia states that, amongst other advantages, 
KMS permits  to *run the X server without root priviledge*.


 I couldn't find this statement in various Wiki articles in english 
(all rather outdated). If the article in French tells the truth, and 
since many hardware graphics are supported (Intel, Radeon, GeForce, and 
now Broadcom), this means that one of the most important saling 
arguments of Systemd (running X without root priviledge) now falls down.


Thanks Linus and kernel team. The best way to fight bad software is 
to write good one.


Didier
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Re: [DNG] Linux 4.4 and KMS

[Rainer Weikusat]

Didier Kryn  writes:
> Just received "Linux Update". One of the articles is about the
> release of kernel version 4.4.
>
> Included in the new kernel is "A new kernel mode-setting (KMS)
> driver from Broadcom".
>
> I gave a look at Wikipedia about Kernel-based mode-setting. The
> article in the French Wikipedia states that, amongst other advantages,
> KMS permits  to *run the X server without root priviledge*.

Kernel mode-setting has existed for a while and it's mainly supposed to
enable people to "do graphics" without having to resort to writing
another X driver, thereby making it yet more difficult to sell wayland.
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