Re: [DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?

[dev]

On 04/15/2016 03:36 PM, Linux O'Beardly wrote:

For what it's worth, much of the apt vs aptitude is preference and
opinion.  However, aptitude does bit better of a job resolving
dependencies and preventing them from breaking your system.


Yes, That's what I've always read so I have always used aptitude but in 
this instance I have packages that will not upgrade via aptitude. I 
mention this case specifically as the Debian docs[1] say "aptitude is 
the recommended package manager for Debian".


I post this question with the intent to investigate why I might need to 
familiarize myself more with APT as it's evident there are use cases 
where aptitude cannot get the job done. I have struggled with situations 
similar to this only rarely and could have possibly saved my self some 
time knowing the nuances of APT (Debian indeed has one of the most 
diverse set of package management tools around). With that in mind, 
consider the following on this Debian Wheezy based system (apologies in 
advance for the length of this post, but it seems pertinent to include)...



#
# apt-get upgrade  <--<<  kernel 2.6.32 will NOT install, updates will
#
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
  proxmox-ve-2.6.32
The following packages will be upgraded:
  base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0 
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server samba-common smbclient

  ssh tzdata
13 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 8975 kB of archives.
After this operation, 1438 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?


#
# apt-get dist-upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will
#
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve
The following packages will be upgraded:
  base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0 
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32

  samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
14 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives.
After this operation, 1438 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?


#
# aptitude upgrade  <--<< kernel will install, updates will NOT
#
Resolving dependencies...
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
  base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0 
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32

  samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra samba-common-bin
14 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives. After unpacking 1438 kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]


#
# aptitude safe-upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will NOT
#
Resolving dependencies...
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
  base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0 
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32

  samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra samba-common-bin
14 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives. After unpacking 1438 kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]


#
# aptitude full-upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will NOT
#
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
  base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0 
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32

  samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra samba-common-bin
14 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives. After unpacking 1438 kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]


[1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-uptodate.en.html
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Re: [DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?

[Linux O'Beardly]

For what it's worth, much of the apt vs aptitude is preference and
opinion.  However, aptitude does bit better of a job resolving dependencies
and preventing them from breaking your system. I personally have never been
a fan of aptitude, so I stick to the standard apt-get
update/upgrade/dist-upgrade.  Has this ever bitten me?  Absolutely.  Has it
ever put me in a situation I couldn't recover from?  Never.  So, YMMV, and
it will absolutely vary, but you just need to figure out what you're
comfortable with and how much work you're willing to put into your
systems.  There is no right or wrong way.  There is just getting it done,
or not done.  At the end of the day, if you got it done, whatever "it" may
be, then you're probably on the right track.  And of course, if you ever
get into a pinch, you always have the community to fall back on.

Linux O'Beardly
@LinuxOBeardly
http://o.beard.ly
linux.obear...@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 3:05 PM, dev  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I was wondering if anyone could offer some clarity on how best to apply
> patches on Debian derived systems? There are so many options across apt-get
> and aptitude... I cannot make sense of them all:
>
>   apt-get upgrade
>   apt-get dist-upgrade
>   apt-get safe-upgrade
>   aptitude upgrade
>   aptitude safe-upgrade
>   aptitude full-upgrade
>
> The man pages tell about the different options, but I don't know if
> removing packages to resolve dependencies is a good thing or not.
>
> Then I found the link below[1] explaining that 'aptitude' is the tool to
> use on Debian while other information[2] suggests that 'apt-get' is the
> tool to use so I'm confused and hoping some of you generous folks could
> provide some insight here or at least admit you are as confused as I am.
>
> Thanks
>
> [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-uptodate.en.html
> [2]
> http://askubuntu.com/questions/81585/what-is-dist-upgrade-and-why-does-it-upgrade-more-than-upgrade
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Re: [DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?

[Simon Hobson]

dev  wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone could offer some clarity on how best to apply 
> patches on Debian derived systems? There are so many options across apt-get 
> and aptitude... I cannot make sense of them all:
> 
>  apt-get upgrade
>  apt-get dist-upgrade
>  apt-get safe-upgrade
>  aptitude upgrade
>  aptitude safe-upgrade
>  aptitude full-upgrade
> 
> The man pages tell about the different options, but I don't know if removing 
> packages to resolve dependencies is a good thing or not.
> 
> Then I found the link below[1] explaining that 'aptitude' is the tool to use 
> on Debian while other information[2] suggests that 'apt-get' is the tool to 
> use so I'm confused and hoping some of you generous folks could provide some 
> insight here or at least admit you are as confused as I am.

I've never felt any need to depart from apt-get. Normally just "apt-get update 
&& apt-get upgrade" - or dist-upgrade in situations like the one in the second 
link you posted.
As to removing packages, when that will only happen if one is no longer needed 
- well actually if it needs to be removed. If a package is just "no longer 
needed" then apt will spit out a notice to that effect.

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Re: [DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?

[Mitt Green]

dev wrote:


I was wondering if anyone could offer some clarity on how best to
apply patches on Debian derived systems? There are so many options
across apt-get and aptitude... I cannot make sense of them all:

  apt-get upgrade
  apt-get dist-upgrade
  apt-get safe-upgrade
  aptitude upgrade
  aptitude safe-upgrade
  aptitude full-upgrade


aptitude is a front-end to the APT. apt(-get) dist-upgrade
"intelligently" manages dependencies, e.g. from recent update
on Sid: libpng12-dev was replaced by libpng-dev; with simple
apt upgrade libpng12-dev would be kept, but with dist-upgrade
it is being replaced.
"apt safe-upgrade" doesn't exist, only "aptitude safe-upgrade";
the first is comparable to
"aptitude --no-new-installs safe-upgrade".

In other words, "aptitude safe-upgrade" upgrades and can install
new packages, but never removes anything; "apt upgrade" never
installs or removes unmet dependencies; "aptitude full-upgrade"
is similar to "apt dist-upgrade".

Cheers,
Mitt
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[DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?

[dev]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone could offer some clarity on how best to apply 
patches on Debian derived systems? There are so many options across 
apt-get and aptitude... I cannot make sense of them all:


  apt-get upgrade
  apt-get dist-upgrade
  apt-get safe-upgrade
  aptitude upgrade
  aptitude safe-upgrade
  aptitude full-upgrade

The man pages tell about the different options, but I don't know if 
removing packages to resolve dependencies is a good thing or not.


Then I found the link below[1] explaining that 'aptitude' is the tool to 
use on Debian while other information[2] suggests that 'apt-get' is the 
tool to use so I'm confused and hoping some of you generous folks could 
provide some insight here or at least admit you are as confused as I am.


Thanks

[1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-uptodate.en.html
[2] 
http://askubuntu.com/questions/81585/what-is-dist-upgrade-and-why-does-it-upgrade-more-than-upgrade

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Re: [DNG] Debian is no longer GNU/Linux?

[Adam Borowski]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 06:18:49PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
> > I believe that the Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is a relatively old project,
> > indeed (it dates back to 2009, IIRC), even if it looks abandoned at
> > the moment (or not actively developed, at least). I don't know whether
> > they are now reviving it...
> 
> There is still ongoing work on Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, but there was a
> decision by the others to not include it as an official architecture:
> 
> http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/66034-systemd-again?-debian-drops-kfreebsd-as-official-architecture
> 
> Perhaps systemd played a role in that decision by the others.

There were both real and bullshit reasons for dropping kfreebsd:

* real: the port legitimately lacks manpower: bugs stood unfixed, not enough
  people stood up to do the work to keep the port in a good shape

* bullshit: most of that work was caused by regressions due to systemd
  (meant widely -- incl systemdization of FreeDesktop components)

-- 
A tit a day keeps the vet away.
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Re: [DNG] Making sense of C pointer syntax.

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi,

Again, thanks for taking some of your time to explain this to me.
Sorry for not replying immediately. The past two weeks I couldn't use
any of my computers.

Edward

On 03/04/2016, KatolaZ  wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 02:30:24PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> > You never return a
>> > pointer to an automatic variable,
>>
>> How'd you learn that? I learned that by this particular incident, and I
>> *NEVER* did that again.
>>
>
> The answer to your question is always the same: I think I learnt it by
> reading "The Only Book You'll Ever Need About C", alas K second
> edition, once upon a time.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
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