[DNG] Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 RC2

[Veteran Unix Admins]

Dear Init Freedom Lovers,

Once again the Veteran Unix Admins salute you!

Just two weeks after the release of Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 RC, we are
happy to announce Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 RC2. Thanks to the very good
feedback received from the community, this release candidate is one
step closer to our final Devuan stable release and our first long term
support (LTS) release as well.

The first RC was well-received in the press and in user reviews:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/22/devuan\_1\_0\_0\_released/

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan

Please find below instructions to try out or install Devuan Jessie
1.0.0 RC2 on your computer and to upgrade from Debian 7 (Wheezy) or
Debian 8 (Jessie). If you are already using Devuan Jessie RC, a simple
`apt-get update && apt-get upgrade` will be enough to get the latest
updates.

As soon as Devuan Jessie stable is released, we will turn our
attention to Devuan Ascii, the current development branch.

We wish to thank all of you for the incredible support given to this
development effort, and for engaging in the process of making Devuan a
useful and reliable base distro, as well as a pleasant, cooperative
community.

# What has improved in RC2

- Solved issues with signing keys -- All the keys used to sign
  installation and live images are now listed at:

https://devuan.org/os/team/

- free and non-free firmware packages are now included in desktop-live
  and minimal-live isos. A script to remove all non-free firmware
  packages from running live images is provided in /root

- backports (bpo) repos are now correctly pinned at priority 100,
  meaning that no package from backports will be automatically
  installed

- Added a systemd-free version of network-manager

- New versions of reportbug, desktop-base, xfce4-panel

- Several more libsystemd0-free packages are now included in the
  jessie-proposed repo

- Removed GNOME, KDE, and Cinnamon as DE options in tasksel. These
  three DEs are still (mostly) installable after the installation is
  complete, but they are known to suffer from some glitches due to the
  lack of systemd

- Fixed several minor bugs 

- A total of 29 different ARM boards are now supported, thanks to the
  added support for u-boot:

- Currently supported boards are:

- Acer Chromebook (chromeacer)
- Veyron/Rockchip Chromebook (chromeveyron)
- Nokia N900 (n900)
- Odroid XU (odroidxu)
- Raspberry Pi 0 and 1 (raspi1)
- Raspberry Pi 2 and 3 (raspi2)
- Raspberry Pi 3 - arm64 (raspi3)

- Allwinner boards are now contained in a single image (sunxi),
  and their respective U-Boot bootloader downloads are available
  in the u-boot directory. The currently supported boards are:

- Olimex: Lime (A10), Lime, Lime2, MICRO (A20)
- Banana Pi: Pi, Pro (A20)
- CHIP: CHIP (R8), CHIP Pro (GR8)
- Cubieboard: Cubieboard (A10), Cubieboard2, Cubietruck (A20)
  Cubieboard4 (A80), Cubietruck Plus (A83t)
- Lamobo R1 (A20)
- OrangePi: OrangePi2, OrangePi Lite, OrangePi Plus (H3)
  OrangePi Zero (H2+), OrangePi, OrangePi Mini (A20)
- Allwinner-based Tablet (A33)

- More info on these boards can be found in the respective README
files in the downloads directory
  
  - Requests for any Allwinner board support can be sent to
 or the #devuan-arm IRC channel - Preferably
they should be supported in mainline Linux and mainline U-Boot

# Anyone can help Devuan!

Devuan is a large endeavor involving people of all ages, from
different countries, with a rainbow of skills and interests.  Anyone
can contribute to ensure that Devuan maintains its role as a stable
and reliable universal operating system.

Here are some suggestions of how you can help Devuan grow and prosper:

- If you think you have found a bug in a Devuan package, please report
  it to http://bugs.devuan.org, either by using the `reportbug` tool
  or directly via email

- If you think you know how to fix an exiting bug, please report the
  solution in the corresponding page on http://bugs.devuan.org, or,
  better, roll-up your sleeves, implement the fix, and get in touch
  with the development team on IRC (`#devuan-dev` on freenode) to have
  your patch included in the official repos
  
- If you would like a package to be included in Devuan, please
  consider joining the development team by taking charge of packaging
  and maintaining it.  This documentation will guide you through the
  process: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549
  
- If you can provide documentation or translations in any language,
  please have a look at https://git.devuan.org/groups/devuan-doc
  
- If you have comments about the website and/or other public aspects
  of Devuan, please get in touch (contact jaromil 
  or golinux )
  
- If you have a lot of bandwidth, 

[DNG] Strange issue

[Jeffrey Needle]

Don't know what's happening here.  First, I love Devuan.  It's quick and 
efficient.


   I use Thunderbird for my mail and calendar needs.  I went to
   schedule an appointment with my doctor, and was surprised to find,
   for the first time, the time display in 24-hour format. Never
   happens with any other distro.  Any idea how I can change this to
   12-hour AM/PM format?  Thanks.

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Re: [DNG] Adjusting LCD backlight in XFCE4

[Gregory Nowak]

On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 03:42:54PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
> I've also tried adding "acpi_backlight=vendor" to the kernel boot options.

Try:
acpi-backlight=vendor
instead of
acpi_backlight=vendor

If that still doesn't work, then try:
acpi-backlight=vendor acpi_osi=Linux

Greg


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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Gregory Nowak]

On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 04:15:15PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult 
wrote:
> What exactly does that 'accessibility' stuff actually do ?

It does for people with various disabilities what a screen, keyboard
and mouse do for people without disabilities.

Greg


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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Radagast]

Well, that would be a brainpain to maintain... Where might I find the GTK2 
bugtracker? bugzilla.gnome.org seemed void of GTK2 stuff.

/Radagast

On Thu, 04 May 2017 19:01:47 +0200
Joachim Fahrner  wrote:

> Am 2017-05-04 17:22, schrieb Radagast:
> > Now that you mention it, I recall I read somewhere that GTK2 is still
> > receiving secrity updates. So, that might be an option...
> 
> I would also vote for gtk2. gtk3 ist strictly bound to Gnome 3 and 
> changes every few days, breaking current themes.
> 
> Jochen
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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Joachim Fahrner]

Am 2017-05-04 17:22, schrieb Radagast:

Now that you mention it, I recall I read somewhere that GTK2 is still
receiving secrity updates. So, that might be an option...


I would also vote for gtk2. gtk3 ist strictly bound to Gnome 3 and 
changes every few days, breaking current themes.


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Radagast]

Now that you mention it, I recall I read somewhere that GTK2 is still receiving 
secrity updates. So, that might be an option...

Radgast

On Thu, 4 May 2017 10:56:58 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 11:43:33AM +0200, Radagast wrote:
> > Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
> > another toolkit then i guess...
> > 
> 
> ...or perhaps help maintaining and developing GTK2, which does not
> depend on systemd. Hard times ahead, but nobody has ever maganed to
> force the entire community to stay on a single path. Remember that
> GNOME itself was born as a tentative countermeasure to KDE, which was
> using the (then non-free) QT libraries, hence forcing users to abide
> to a non-free license from Trolltech...
> 
> IWTBF
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
> [ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
> [   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[parazyd]

On Thu, 04 May 2017, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote:

> On 04.05.2017 15:58, parazyd wrote:
> 
> > Nope, Gtk3 does depend on dbus. More correctly, its accessibility parts
> > depend on dbus.
> 
> What exactly does that 'accessibility' stuff actually do ?

It's somewhat a black box. Nobody ever bothered to fork Gtk3 without it,
so my guess it's deeply integrated anyway.

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Re: [DNG] Adjusting LCD backlight in XFCE4

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 14:42, Lars Noodén wrote:

> $ ls /sys/class/backlight/
> 

No backlight devices ?
Smells like a problem w/ either kernel (drivers missing ?) or
ACPI configuration (on x86).

--mtx

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 15:58, parazyd wrote:

> Nope, Gtk3 does depend on dbus. More correctly, its accessibility parts
> depend on dbus.

What exactly does that 'accessibility' stuff actually do ?


--mtx

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 15:12, aitor_czr wrote:

> Gtk3 doesn't depend on dbus, whereas some apps like slim, synaptic,
> thunar, seahorse, nautilus...  But not Gtk per se, neither the Qt toolkit.

Qt does - at least much parts of it. You can opt-out at build time,
but then you'll looser other features.

BTW: these trolls are quite funny: the also need extra wrapper for
trivial stuff like can access. Seems operating on sockets its far
to complicated for the intended audience (hmm, who's their audience
anyways ? obviously not software engineers)


--mtx

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 11:56, KatolaZ wrote:

> Remember that GNOME itself was born as a tentative countermeasure to KDE,
> which was using the (then non-free) QT libraries, hence forcing users
> to abide to a non-free license from Trolltech...

... and because of the resource consumption, excessive build times and
bad binary compatibility of C++ in general, etc, etc.

Nowadays, c++ became much better, build machines got faster, but the
trolls really manage to make it even much worse than it ever was.
Over 1GB source tree - several hours of build times, until it breaks
somewhere in the middle again ...


--mtx
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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 11:51, parazyd wrote:

> GNOME != GTK3. Gtk3 does depend on dbus & co., 

Which already is bad enough. Actually, desktop-bus coming from these
folks - which makes it even funnier that more and more embedded folks
are using it (and then whining about resource consumption and bad
performance)

> It would be very wrong to do so actually, since a lot of
> applications are ported to Gtk3.

Better don't speak out that idea too loudly ...


--mtx

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 11:43, Radagast wrote:
> Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
> another toolkit then i guess...

I've started hacking up my own widget toolkit. Yet in a pretty early
stage - for now just using it for some small DRM/KMS-based apps.

https://github.com/metux/twtk


Patches welcomed :)


--mtx

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[parazyd]

On Thu, 04 May 2017, aitor_czr wrote:

>Hi parazyd,
>On 05/04/2017 01:15 PM, parazyd [1] wrote:
> 
> Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
> anothe
> r toolkit then i guess...
> 
> GNOME != GTK3. Gtk3 does depend on dbus & co., but does not depend on
> systemd. It would be very wrong to do so actually, since a lot of
> applications are ported to Gtk3.
> 
>Gtk3 doesn't depend on dbus, whereas some apps like slim, synaptic,
>thunar, seahorse, nautilus...  But not Gtk per se, neither the Qt
>toolkit.
>Cheers,
>  Aitor.

Nope, Gtk3 does depend on dbus. More correctly, its accessibility parts
depend on dbus.

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Re: [DNG] Packaging nodejs-7.9

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.05.2017 09:26, Jérémy Lal wrote:

> At the moment, in debian, /usr/lib/nodejs is there to store all node
> modules installed from debian packages.

hmm, would that conflict w/ having certain "nodejs-$version" subdirs
w/ the actual engines (the whole tree - not splitted out the several
FHS parts yet) there ?

Meanwhile I've also added some update-alternatives support. (yet have
to add version into package name). But this will conflict w/ current
versions, as they directly install /usr/bin/nodejs. Can we make a minor
update of 0.10.* for update-alternatives ?

> Are you talking about installing modules depending on their
> compatibility with node engines (as found in package.json) ?

Actually, not sure whether that's really required. Are there any known
(already packaged) modules that break w/ newer nodejs ? If not, I guess,
just adding depend son newer engines where needed should be enough.


--mtx

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[aitor_czr]

Hi parazyd,

On 05/04/2017 01:15 PM, parazyd  wrote:

Ok, so vanilla GTK*does*  depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
another toolkit then i guess...

GNOME != GTK3. Gtk3 does depend on dbus & co., but does not depend on
systemd. It would be very wrong to do so actually, since a lot of
applications are ported to Gtk3.


Gtk3 doesn't depend on dbus, whereas some apps like slim, synaptic, 
thunar, seahorse, nautilus...  But not Gtk per se, neither the Qt toolkit.


Cheers,

  Aitor.



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[DNG] Adjusting LCD backlight in XFCE4

[Lars Noodén]

I'm having trouble adjusting the backlight on my LCD screen in RC 1 with
XFCE4.  No matter what I've tried so far, it stays where it is.  With
Ubuntu 16.04, things are pre-configured and it is just a matter of
pressing the right function buttons.  However, with Devuan Jessie RC 1
the right commands are hard  to figure out.

Here is what I've tried so far to change the backlight intensity.  None
have any effect:

$ xrandr --output default --brightness 0
xrandr: Gamma size is 0.

$ ls /sys/class/backlight/

$ xgamma -gamma 0.9
-> Red  1.000, Green  1.000, Blue  1.000
<- Red  0.900, Green  0.900, Blue  0.900

$ xbacklight
No outputs have backlight property

I've also tried adding "acpi_backlight=vendor" to the kernel boot options.

What should I be looking at or trying so as to be able to increase or
decrease the backlight?

Regards,
Lars

PS.  The RC1 installer is much improved for this notebook.   It found
the wireless, for example
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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[parazyd]

On Thu, 04 May 2017, KatolaZ wrote:

> On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 11:43:33AM +0200, Radagast wrote:
> > Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
> > another toolkit then i guess...
> > 
> 
> ...or perhaps help maintaining and developing GTK2, which does not
> depend on systemd. Hard times ahead, but nobody has ever maganed to
> force the entire community to stay on a single path. Remember that
> GNOME itself was born as a tentative countermeasure to KDE, which was
> using the (then non-free) QT libraries, hence forcing users to abide
> to a non-free license from Trolltech...

Gtk2 hasn't received an update in years, so it's a relatively safe bet
if you choose to use it.

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 11:43:33AM +0200, Radagast wrote:
> Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
> another toolkit then i guess...
> 

...or perhaps help maintaining and developing GTK2, which does not
depend on systemd. Hard times ahead, but nobody has ever maganed to
force the entire community to stay on a single path. Remember that
GNOME itself was born as a tentative countermeasure to KDE, which was
using the (then non-free) QT libraries, hence forcing users to abide
to a non-free license from Trolltech...

IWTBF

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[parazyd]

On Thu, 04 May 2017, Radagast wrote:

> Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
> another toolkit then i guess...

GNOME != GTK3. Gtk3 does depend on dbus & co., but does not depend on
systemd. It would be very wrong to do so actually, since a lot of
applications are ported to Gtk3.

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Re: [DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Radagast]

Ok, so vanilla GTK *does* depend on systemd. Well, best start looking for 
another toolkit then i guess...

/Radagast

On Thu, 4 May 2017 11:25:28 +0200
Arnt Karlsen  wrote:

> On Thu, 4 May 2017 10:25:15 +0200, Radagast wrote in message 
> <20170504102515.40808d6fabf126cb5be01...@openmailbox.org>:
> 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Can I build a GUI application on GTK3 and expect it to be independent
> > from systemd? I've been looking around trying to figure this out but
> > so far I've found no straight answers. Mabye my looking skills aren't
> > up to par, still asking beats not knowing any day and this seems like
> > the right place to ask.
> 
> ..seen https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd ?
> 
> ..http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page found from
> googling "gtk3 without systemd", looks like google search AI is 
> getting clever enough to put 2 relevant hits in the to 10...
> https://www.google.com/search?q=gtk3+without+systemd
> 
> 
> -- 
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> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
>   Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
>   best case, worst case, and just in case.
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[DNG] GTK3 and systemd

[Radagast]

Hi all!

Can I build a GUI application on GTK3 and expect it to be independent from 
systemd? I've been looking around trying to figure this out but so far I've 
found no straight answers. Mabye my looking skills aren't up to par, still 
asking beats not knowing any day and this seems like the right place to ask.

/Radagast
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[DNG] Packaging nodejs-7.9

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

Hi folks,


I'm currently packaging nodejs-7.9 for various deb Distros.

I'll have to maintain some applications that use the fanciest
new features, and precompiled binaries from untrusted sources
(eg. nvm+friends) of course are not an option.

Before I go all of this alone - is there anybody here who already
done this ? Or anything I should consider ?

My current plan is:
* install in similar way as jvm (/usr/lib/nodejs/nodejs-$version)
* for now I'll just directly symlink - update-alternatives support
  comes in a later step (or maybe someone here likes to help ?)
* the actual nodejs package will be named "nodejs-$version", the
  symlinks in package "nodejs".

The tricky part will be a safe upgrade path from current 0.10
and npm's dependencies.


What do you folks think about that ?


--mtx
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