Re: [DNG] Really? This is it?

[golinux]

On 2017-07-16 21:14, maildoneri...@tutanota.com wrote:

So, I've been trying to slog through all of this,
 hoping for some Devuan tidbits;
 but it's mostly
 * political discussions and
 * Libreboot-ish attempts to insert lgbt-ish SJW stuff
 (cause that worked out so well).

* Has there been any discussion of moderating this list down
 to actual Devuan content? If so, what is the status of that?

 * I would be happy to help to moderate -- and count that
 as my contribution to the project.

 * Are there Other Devuan email lists that are a bit more ... focused?

Sorry to grouch, but just filtered through a pile of digests and see
only, well, Not Devuan stuff.

Thank you?



There's no excuse for this embarrassing lapse of judgment.  But trying 
to moderate would have made it much worse.   Perhaps my suggestion 
earlier today was just too subtle for those bent on having the last 
word.  Fortunately his doesn't happen often.  Can't even blame it on a 
full moon.


Hopefully everyone has gotten the message now and this sorry episode 
will truly be over.  Let's move on folks and not go into a postmortem.


Thanks,

golinux
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[DNG] Is the Devuan project Gaining more Debian maintainers?

[maildoneright]

There is a lot of bad press around systemd now, 
with the DNS hack;
its using Google DNS by default;
and a general privacy concern centered around WHY systemd 
was pushed so hard over the concerns of top debian and other affected 
distros contributors.

Is this resulting in More maintainers now gravitating towards Devuan?

I am just trying to get the general feel for momentum here.

Again -- thank you.


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Re: [DNG] unsubscribe

[zap]

well, I will keep this in mind in the future due to this.

On 07/16/2017 10:17 PM, william moss wrote:
> unsubscribe
> Tired of the too many messages, especially those not directly related to
> the distribution.
>
>
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[DNG] "Stretch" plans

[maildoneright]

I realize you just released Jessie Devuan -- 
and I also realize how difficult the task was; 
but are is there a target date for a Devuan Stretch version?

It would be good to not be too far behind the Debian 
curve; if possible.

I just don't know if the dates/plan is already laid out and if it may be easier 
now that everything has been gone through at least once, for Devuan Jessie.

Thanks 

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[DNG] Really? This is it?

[maildoneright]

So, I've been trying to slog through all of this, 
hoping for some Devuan tidbits;
but it's mostly 
 * political discussions and 
 * Libreboot-ish attempts to insert lgbt-ish SJW stuff 
    (cause that worked out so well).

* Has there been any discussion of moderating this list down 
   to actual Devuan  content? If so, what is the status of that?

 * I would be happy to help to  moderate -- and count that 
    as my contribution to the project.

 * Are there Other Devuan email lists that are a bit more ... focused?
 
Sorry to grouch, but just filtered through a pile of digests and see only, 
well, Not Devuan stuff.

Thank you?


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Re: [DNG] Sexual politics and society: [was: Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii, ]

[zap]

Worry not, I almost triggered something a while ago... xD

go back far enough, st gnu church joke was made on dng and I nearly
started one heh. no one took the bait though... thankfully.


On 07/16/2017 05:56 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de):
>
> [political stuff]
>
> I apologise for inadvertently triggering a subthread about Дональд Трамп.  
> That was not my intention:  I was just asked to translate a .signature
> block from dog-Latin, and wanted to good-naturedly comply.  Next time,
> I'll take care to comply off-list.
>
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Re: [DNG] Sexual politics and society: [was: Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii, ]

[Rick Moen]

Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de):

[political stuff]

I apologise for inadvertently triggering a subthread about Дональд Трамп.  
That was not my intention:  I was just asked to translate a .signature
block from dog-Latin, and wanted to good-naturedly comply.  Next time,
I'll take care to comply off-list.

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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Ron]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 17:18:13 -0400
Fungi4All  wrote:

> I am relatively new here, I've only seen a few messages and all I can say it 
> is
> "this is not what I expected". I am an opponent of all censorship and an
> advocate of the freedom to use a delete button.

My experience on other highly technical lists (Model Engineering, Steam 
railways, etc is that we get those OT threads from time to time, mainly when a 
list is slow-moving, and they resolve themselves very quickly when on-topic 
posts come back in higher numbers.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
  Death is not bad; it just comes badly, sometimes.
-- Cordwainer Smith

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 
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[DNG] ..really OT, was: Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 15:59:35 +, Miroslav wrote in message 
<20170716155935.47kq33o2s5zsbvai@gdOv>:

> On 170716-12:10+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

> > ..sissy. ;o) 
> > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web
> > http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search
> > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD
> 
> I don't see how the stop and search on pilots can be blamed straight
> on Trump.

..that was on Obama's watch.  It's really the same old "9/11"-regime.

> The drone assassinations, however, can be put squarely on Obama, and
> those really escalated during his presidency. Obama really was the
> Drone President... Due to Devuan taking huge share of my time, I have
> not followed how Trump fares in the use of drones, nor if the
> President's approval is still needed for drone assassinations.
> 
> Lots of things to object to Trump, but would Hillary really have been
> the better choice?

..nope, but Bernie would have been a very good POTUS.

> For us Croats, I have to say it was a good thing, that our President
> Kolinda, and we are just 4 1/2 million of people, was about the main
> organizer for the meeting of Visegrád Group, in Poland, a week or so
> ago, where President Trump participated. I was proud. Would have been
> proud if it had been President Hillary instead, equally proud... I
> respect American President as an institution.
> 
> Still, I don't think Trump is so very bad.
> 
> Also I say openly: NATO is better than Russia. And Russia has no
> right to occupy Ukraine, which they continue to do. But... Putin is a
> killer, and a neocommunist... wants to revive the Soviet Empire...

...by putting his puppets in place in governments 'n parliaments, not
just in the Amerikainski Sovetski Soyus, we have Putin's boys 'n gals
elected into parliament and government in Norway too, and probably all
over NATO membership states.

> Trump squarely made Assad the Syrian president understand that gas
> attacks on civilian population won't be tollerated by launching
> precision strikes

..wrong, wrong, unless he made an effort to not harm anything of value
to Assad 'n Putin.  All he managed to do was get himself and Ivanka on
record as war criminals.  

> on Syrian military facilities. I approved of that
> move, months ago now. I still praise it. Obama never had the guts for
> such an action. Obama failed in that region, and Syria made Russia's
> military prowess come to the fore... (Well there's more to it, but it
> would be too complex to recount.) And now it's even worse with the
> dictator in Turkey making pacts with Russia...
> 
> Back to Europe. We, the non-populous nations, depend on great forces,
> and on bigger players in Europe, i.e. the United States and other
> world superpowers and the leaders of most populous nations of Europe:
> Germany, France, Great Britain and others.
> 
> It was nice to see how the slaughter of Kosovo Albanians by Serbian
> military and paramilitary was stopped by American intervention. That
> was a justified military action, by the American military and allies.
> I think the bombing of Belgrade, however, was an excess, and
> shouldn't have happened...

..not to mention the Norwegian "led" Genocide on the "Krajina Serbs."
Thorvald Stoltenberg (NATO-Jens' father) was negotiating peace, but he
was also the Supreme Commander of UNPROFOR, where he Failed his Command
and Failed to Act under Articles 87 and 86 of the Protocol Additional I 
of 1977 to the 4 Geneva Conventions of 1949, by not trying to stop the
Croat mass deportation of ethnic Serbs.  He has 2 stories on this, one
in his book "De 1000 dagene" where he denies advance knowledge of Croat 
plans, and another in his sworn testemony to the Lundkommisjonen on 
Norwegian secret services, where he admits under oath, said advance
knowledge.

..on June 7th 1997 I wrote Premier Thorbjørn Jagland advicing him 
he would wanna fix this war crime before the elections, and, IME, 
Ed Snowden proved _much_ wiser by First Running, Then Get Published.

> The saddest thing in recent history was the genocide of Bosnian
> Muslims, again by Serbian forces, was allowed to go on effectively
> before the eyes of the world, in Srebrenica in mid July 1995. It was
> a genocide de facto allowed by world powers of the day.
> 
> But when it comes to military vs civilian lives... The generals and
> the nation leaders (of the Dutch in this case, and of the French in
> the other case below, just read) will regularly barter a single
> soldier of their own's life for thousands of civilians... The life of
> any Dutch soldier in Srebrenica, mildly at risk, or of any French
> soldier in Rwanda, mildly at risk, back in 1980s (or whatever the
> year of the Rwandan genocide), was way, way more important for them
> than thousands of Bosnian Muslim prisoners held by the Serbian forces
> and being taken 

Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Fungi4All]

Hi,
I am relatively new here, I've only seen a few messages and all I can say it is
"this is not what I expected". I am an opponent of all censorship and an
advocate of the freedom to use a delete button.
My opinion in such a discussion is: It is ok to express a view publically
when there is stimulation and maybe you should never be silent. But in
a public domain/forum with a high number of listeners if the debate goes
on by a very few people, then it becomes propaganda and abuse of the
medium. The five people that like to continue their debate can make a
mini cc: list and continue. Otherwise any 5 of us can invade any public
forum to advance our agenda by pretending to debate.
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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[zap]

On 07/16/2017 04:35 PM, Dragan FOSS wrote:
> On 07/16/2017 09:34 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
>> This thread has gotten ridiculously off-topic
>
> Smart people can choose to be smart or stupid, as it suits them
> better. The stupid have no choice... ;>

yep... mhm...

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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[zap]

On 07/16/2017 03:34 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> This thread has gotten ridiculously off-topic.  Please show some
> restraint and consideration for the bloat this is putting into the dng
> database.
>
> golinux
>
Oh sorry, I will stop replying if you wish to this message. and the
other one if you wish as well...

>
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Re: [DNG] Sexual politics and society: [was: Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii, ]

[zap]

On 07/16/2017 03:20 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Sunday 16 July 2017 at 19:55:21, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
>
>> This modern day and age that we live in, in which perversion is decided to
>> be normal by a vote of medical scientists, and a vote that was just
>> slightly in favor (as there were many votes against that decision, just
>> not the majority) of the decision how that particular aberration in human
>> sexual behavior that up until that vote was deemed a desease... That that
>> aberration in human sexual behavior which consisted in attraction and
>> sexual relashionship btwn man and man and woman and woman instead of btwn
>> man an woman only, how that aberation ceases, by a medical vote, to be
>> desease, and becomes normal, and since then, by law, in many countries,
>> even contradicting that such behavior be normal can put you in trouble...
>>
>> This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion
>> (perversion as, erhm, scientists claimed it to be, up until that vote, and
>> can something be truth at one time, and then the same thing become false
>> in a blink of an... vote?)...
>>
>> This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion is a
>> normal behavior, else you are labeled bad names and labeled something like
>> anti-human... Else you are evicted from communities... Because the truth
>> about those facts "changed" and now you are under legal obligation to
>> accept to new truth about those facts...
>>
>> And what do you want me to? To trust that in this age, as described above
>> by the worse, as well as the most stupid, and mind boggling aspect of
>> it... No, I'm not out of topic here, I'm not. This is what marks the
>> global society today, these new truths... It imbibes it all through, down
>> to Churches and theology...
>>
>> You want me to trust that in this age of ours theologians have become so
>> clever that all the previous ones were only like little kids, maybe smart,
>> but, aarrghh... their works based on such poor sources, lacking in real
>> knowledge, or their understanding so limited... All the previous
>> theologians in comparison to this day were... probably... stupid, eh??
>>
>> And what do you want me to? To believe that the Hebrew sources were found
>> just recently and didn't exist previously, such as in Jerome's time (|V
>> century p.C.)? That Jerome's knowledge of Hebrew was so poor that his
>> translation of Bible was rife with approximations...
>>
>> No, I trust that ancient Church father, whom all the Christian
>> denominations accept, so much more than the new translations. I had, time
>> ago, read modern commentaries on some Old Testament texts, and the feeling
>> still remains of nausea, with all the approximation of the contemprary
>> exegesis... And of the denial of almost any supernatural meanings of the
>> Holy Texts.
>>
>> It's exactly the other way round, than what you say about accuracy futher
>> above, and suppose below.
>> P.S. I hope no one will produce any hatred of same-sex people out of my
>> words above. By all means, pls. no!, I only regard those facts to be
>> truthful as deemed, by a long standing majority, previously to that
>> medical scientists vote, and false after that vote. IOW that the behavior
>> of those people is an aberration, is a disease. Such people need help to
>> get normal. But I don't hate them by any means. And I oppose any
>> discrimination against them. They are of course human beings as any other
>> human beings. With all the rights as any other human beings.
> 1. What does this have to do with Devuan?
>
> 2. What makes you so certain that the original doctrines of the bible, as 
> written in Hebrew, and quite possibly accurately translated on occasion, 
> represent the "correct" way to live compared to modern beliefs of today?
>
> 2a. The bible is not the only "holy scripture" - there are plenty to choose 
> from.
>
> Why should two men or two women not marry and enjoy life together?
>
> What gives a 2000-year-old view of life and society any greater authority 
> than 
> our current view of life and society?
>
> I say "live and let live".
>
> If people before me said otherwise, that doesn't automatically make them 
> right 
> and me wrong.
>
>
> Antony.
>

Yes, I was wondering why people are discussing theology in a devuan
forums...
don't get me wrong, I am a christian myself, but this seems kind of
random...

Also, we need to care more about people who are alive then people who
haven't been born... in case no one mentioned that just thought I would
add that thought before someone mentions abortions...

There is also the saying, "don't judge lest you be judged. For with the
same measure you deal, it will be dealt back onto you" but I mean, its
not like Jesus said that right?

oh wait... ;)

but in all seriousness, same sex relationships, and abortions are not
the world main issue to speak of, our main issue is pride, arrogance,
and abuse of power and of course guns.

ps, Trump was a 

Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Dragan FOSS]

On 07/16/2017 09:34 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

This thread has gotten ridiculously off-topic


Smart people can choose to be smart or stupid, as it suits them better. 
The stupid have no choice... ;>

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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 09:50:11 -0700, Rick wrote in message 
<20170716165011.gj28...@linuxmafia.com>:

> Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):
> 
> > ..sissy. ;o) 
> > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web
> > http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search
> > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD
> 
> Oh, I can be scathing, too.  I just try not to suffer the delusion
> that it's inherently interesting to others _merely_ that I have an
> opinion without making it also, y'know, interesting.  It's a
> Janteloven thing, as I'm sure you know.  ;->

..aye.  But I must admit I didn't believe democracy would fall 
apart this fast.

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[info at smallinnovtions.nl]

On 16-07-17 21:34, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
This thread has gotten ridiculously off-topic.  Please show some 
restraint and consideration for the bloat this is putting into the dng 
database.


golinux


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Agree. There are plenty of religion and christianity mailinglists and 
fora to continue this discussion.


Grtz.

Nick
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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[golinux]

This thread has gotten ridiculously off-topic.  Please show some 
restraint and consideration for the bloat this is putting into the dng 
database.


golinux


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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Rowland Penny]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:55:21 +
Miroslav Rovis  wrote:

> On 170716-13:18-0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 15:59:35 +
> > Miroslav Rovis  wrote:
> > 
> > > Can't trust modern translations of Bible, actually so much
> > > undeserving of trust that they verge on disgusting... 
> > 
> > yet modern translations often are from better ancient texts, which
> > helps in the accuracy.
> 
> The modern translators do not deserve my blind trust in the least.
> 
> This modern day and age that we live in, in which perversion is
> decided to be normal by a vote of medical scientists, and a vote that
> was just slightly in favor (as there were many votes against that
> decision, just not the majority) of the decision how that particular
> aberration in human sexual behavior that up until that vote was
> deemed a desease... That that aberration in human sexual behavior
> which consisted in attraction and sexual relashionship btwn man and
> man and woman and woman instead of btwn man an woman only, how that
> aberation ceases, by a medical vote, to be desease, and becomes
> normal, and since then, by law, in many countries, even contradicting
> that such behavior be normal can put you in trouble...
> 
> This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion
> (perversion as, erhm, scientists claimed it to be, up until that
> vote, and can something be truth at one time, and then the same thing
> become false in a blink of an... vote?)...
> 
> This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion
> is a normal behavior, else you are labeled bad names and labeled
> something like anti-human... Else you are evicted from communities...
> Because the truth about those facts "changed" and now you are under
> legal obligation to accept to new truth about those facts...
> 
> And what do you want me to? To trust that in this age, as described
> above by the worse, as well as the most stupid, and mind boggling
> aspect of it... No, I'm not out of topic here, I'm not. This is what
> marks the global society today, these new truths... It imbibes it all
> through, down to Churches and theology...
> 
> You want me to trust that in this age of ours theologians have become
> so clever that all the previous ones were only like little kids,
> maybe smart, but, aarrghh... their works based on such poor sources,
> lacking in real knowledge, or their understanding so limited... All
> the previous theologians in comparison to this day were...
> probably... stupid, eh??
> 
> And what do you want me to? To believe that the Hebrew sources were
> found just recently and didn't exist previously, such as in Jerome's
> time (|V century p.C.)? That Jerome's knowledge of Hebrew was so poor
> that his translation of Bible was rife with approximations...
> 
> No, I trust that ancient Church father, whom all the Christian
> denominations accept, so much more than the new translations. I had,
> time ago, read modern commentaries on some Old Testament texts, and
> the feeling still remains of nausea, with all the approximation of
> the contemprary exegesis... And of the denial of almost any
> supernatural meanings of the Holy Texts.
> 
> It's exactly the other way round, than what you say about accuracy
> futher above, and suppose below. 
> 
> > Sad to say, but why would you read a translation into Latin when
> > you can read one int French or English ?
> 
> I plan to read Latin Vulgate because I already know some Latin, and
> unfortunately no Greek, and I don't believe I would find time to
> learn Greek, or Hebrew, to be able to read the originals...
> 
> I plan to read Latin Vulgate, IOW, basically, Jerome's translation of
> the Bible, because I believe his is the closest translation to the
> originals.
> 
> ---
> P.S. I hope no one will produce any hatred of same-sex people out of
> my words above. By all means, pls. no!, I only regard those facts to
> be truthful as deemed, by a long standing majority, previously to
> that medical scientists vote, and false after that vote. IOW that the
> behavior of those people is an aberration, is a disease. Such people
> need help to get normal. But I don't hate them by any means. And I
> oppose any discrimination against them. They are of course human
> beings as any other human beings. With all the rights as any other
> human beings.
> 
> P.S.2 I think I can be considered as belonging to a minority. A
> Catholic... right... :) But I'm really half joking here No, we,
> be it Catholics, Orthodox, or Christians of other denominations,
> we'll be around almost forever and longer, don't worry! And also
> other long-standing world religions will be lasting longer yet... As
> well as any respectful belief in the Supernatural...
> 

Miroslav, I struggle to understand why you have written this to a
computer OS mailing list.

My philosophy is fairly simple, I do not believe everything I see and
hear, I don't 

Re: [DNG] Sexual politics and society: [was: Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii, ]

[Antony Stone]

On Sunday 16 July 2017 at 19:55:21, Miroslav Rovis wrote:

> This modern day and age that we live in, in which perversion is decided to
> be normal by a vote of medical scientists, and a vote that was just
> slightly in favor (as there were many votes against that decision, just
> not the majority) of the decision how that particular aberration in human
> sexual behavior that up until that vote was deemed a desease... That that
> aberration in human sexual behavior which consisted in attraction and
> sexual relashionship btwn man and man and woman and woman instead of btwn
> man an woman only, how that aberation ceases, by a medical vote, to be
> desease, and becomes normal, and since then, by law, in many countries,
> even contradicting that such behavior be normal can put you in trouble...
> 
> This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion
> (perversion as, erhm, scientists claimed it to be, up until that vote, and
> can something be truth at one time, and then the same thing become false
> in a blink of an... vote?)...
> 
> This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion is a
> normal behavior, else you are labeled bad names and labeled something like
> anti-human... Else you are evicted from communities... Because the truth
> about those facts "changed" and now you are under legal obligation to
> accept to new truth about those facts...
> 
> And what do you want me to? To trust that in this age, as described above
> by the worse, as well as the most stupid, and mind boggling aspect of
> it... No, I'm not out of topic here, I'm not. This is what marks the
> global society today, these new truths... It imbibes it all through, down
> to Churches and theology...
> 
> You want me to trust that in this age of ours theologians have become so
> clever that all the previous ones were only like little kids, maybe smart,
> but, aarrghh... their works based on such poor sources, lacking in real
> knowledge, or their understanding so limited... All the previous
> theologians in comparison to this day were... probably... stupid, eh??
> 
> And what do you want me to? To believe that the Hebrew sources were found
> just recently and didn't exist previously, such as in Jerome's time (|V
> century p.C.)? That Jerome's knowledge of Hebrew was so poor that his
> translation of Bible was rife with approximations...
> 
> No, I trust that ancient Church father, whom all the Christian
> denominations accept, so much more than the new translations. I had, time
> ago, read modern commentaries on some Old Testament texts, and the feeling
> still remains of nausea, with all the approximation of the contemprary
> exegesis... And of the denial of almost any supernatural meanings of the
> Holy Texts.
> 
> It's exactly the other way round, than what you say about accuracy futher
> above, and suppose below.

> P.S. I hope no one will produce any hatred of same-sex people out of my
> words above. By all means, pls. no!, I only regard those facts to be
> truthful as deemed, by a long standing majority, previously to that
> medical scientists vote, and false after that vote. IOW that the behavior
> of those people is an aberration, is a disease. Such people need help to
> get normal. But I don't hate them by any means. And I oppose any
> discrimination against them. They are of course human beings as any other
> human beings. With all the rights as any other human beings.

1. What does this have to do with Devuan?

2. What makes you so certain that the original doctrines of the bible, as 
written in Hebrew, and quite possibly accurately translated on occasion, 
represent the "correct" way to live compared to modern beliefs of today?

2a. The bible is not the only "holy scripture" - there are plenty to choose 
from.

Why should two men or two women not marry and enjoy life together?

What gives a 2000-year-old view of life and society any greater authority than 
our current view of life and society?

I say "live and let live".

If people before me said otherwise, that doesn't automatically make them right 
and me wrong.


Antony.

-- 
Never write it in Perl if you can do it in Awk.
Never do it in Awk if sed can handle it.
Never use sed when tr can do the job.
Never invoke tr when cat is sufficient.
Avoid using cat whenever possible.

   Please reply to the list;
 please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170716-13:18-0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 15:59:35 +
> Miroslav Rovis  wrote:
> 
> > Can't trust modern translations of Bible, actually so much undeserving
> > of trust that they verge on disgusting... 
> 
> yet modern translations often are from better ancient texts, which helps in 
> the accuracy.

The modern translators do not deserve my blind trust in the least.

This modern day and age that we live in, in which perversion is decided to be 
normal by a vote of medical scientists, and a vote that was just slightly in 
favor (as there were many votes against that decision, just not the majority) 
of the decision how that particular aberration in human sexual behavior that up 
until that vote was deemed a desease... That that aberration in human sexual 
behavior which consisted in attraction and sexual relashionship btwn man and 
man and woman and woman instead of btwn man an woman only, how that aberation 
ceases, by a medical vote, to be desease, and becomes normal, and since then, 
by law, in many countries, even contradicting that such behavior be normal can 
put you in trouble...

This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion (perversion 
as, erhm, scientists claimed it to be, up until that vote, and can something be 
truth at one time, and then the same thing become false in a blink of an... 
vote?)...

This modern day when it must be accepted by anybody that perversion is a normal 
behavior, else you are labeled bad names and labeled something like 
anti-human... Else you are evicted from communities... Because the truth about 
those facts "changed" and now you are under legal obligation to accept to new 
truth about those facts...

And what do you want me to? To trust that in this age, as described above by 
the worse, as well as the most stupid, and mind boggling aspect of it... No, 
I'm not out of topic here, I'm not. This is what marks the global society 
today, these new truths... It imbibes it all through, down to Churches and 
theology...

You want me to trust that in this age of ours theologians have become so clever 
that all the previous ones were only like little kids, maybe smart, but, 
aarrghh... their works based on such poor sources, lacking in real knowledge, 
or their understanding so limited... All the previous theologians in comparison 
to this day were... probably... stupid, eh??

And what do you want me to? To believe that the Hebrew sources were found just 
recently and didn't exist previously, such as in Jerome's time (|V century 
p.C.)? That Jerome's knowledge of Hebrew was so poor that his translation of 
Bible was rife with approximations...

No, I trust that ancient Church father, whom all the Christian denominations 
accept, so much more than the new translations. I had, time ago, read modern 
commentaries on some Old Testament texts, and the feeling still remains of 
nausea, with all the approximation of the contemprary exegesis... And of the 
denial of almost any supernatural meanings of the Holy Texts.

It's exactly the other way round, than what you say about accuracy futher 
above, and suppose below. 

> Sad to say, but why would you read a translation into Latin when you can read 
> one int French or English ?

I plan to read Latin Vulgate because I already know some Latin, and 
unfortunately no Greek, and I don't believe I would find time to learn Greek, 
or Hebrew, to be able to read the originals...

I plan to read Latin Vulgate, IOW, basically, Jerome's translation of the 
Bible, because I believe his is the closest translation to the originals.

---
P.S. I hope no one will produce any hatred of same-sex people out of my words 
above. By all means, pls. no!, I only regard those facts to be truthful as 
deemed, by a long standing majority, previously to that medical scientists 
vote, and false after that vote. IOW that the behavior of those people is an 
aberration, is a disease. Such people need help to get normal. But I don't hate 
them by any means. And I oppose any discrimination against them. They are of 
course human beings as any other human beings. With all the rights as any other 
human beings.

P.S.2 I think I can be considered as belonging to a minority. A Catholic... 
right... :) But I'm really half joking here No, we, be it Catholics, 
Orthodox, or Christians of other denominations, we'll be around almost forever 
and longer, don't worry! And also other long-standing world religions will be 
lasting longer yet... As well as any respectful belief in the Supernatural...

-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
https://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Ron]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 15:59:35 +
Miroslav Rovis  wrote:

> Can't trust modern translations of Bible, actually so much undeserving
> of trust that they verge on disgusting... 

yet modern translations often are from better ancient texts, which helps in the 
accuracy.

Sad to say, but why would you read a translation into Latin when you can read 
one int French or English ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
News is the mother of opinion,
 opinion the cause of mass-delusion,
 delusion the source of war.
   -- Dr Jean-Jacques Vomact

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 
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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):

> ..sissy. ;o) 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web
> http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD

Oh, I can be scathing, too.  I just try not to suffer the delusion that
it's inherently interesting to others _merely_ that I have an opinion
without making it also, y'know, interesting.  It's a Janteloven thing,
as I'm sure you know.  ;->

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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170716-12:10+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:46:14 -0700, Rick wrote in message 
> <20170716054614.gi28...@linuxmafia.com>:
> 
> > Quoting Miroslav Rovis (miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr):
> > 
> > > But pls. people, I don't understand Latin so well... Nor have time
> > > to study. Already breaking down tired from lots of work with
> > > polishing my Devuan today... Could you pls. translate. There'll be
> > > others who would benefit...
> > 
> > OK, but I'll warn that putting it in a living language makes it seem
> > like in-your-face polemics rather than a sly antiquarian joke.  It
> > say, in deliberately bad Anglo-leaning Latin:
> > 
> >'The man in the White House, who is angry and has fake hair, is
> >dishonourable and a danger to the country.'
Thank you for the translation.

And of the verses from Aeneid by Virgil, below, which are great.
 
> > > I'm referring to also:
> > > 
> > > Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> > > > Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit...  ;-3)
> > 
> >   'Perhaps it will be pleasant to remember these things some day.'
> > 
> > It's what Aeneas tells his exhausted, shipwrecked followers in 
> > _The Aeneid_, book 1.  (Renaud/Ron is quite the wit.  I doff my hat.)
> >  
> > > > Ave atque vale,
> > 
> > And that is the great poet Gaius Valerius Catullus's famous elegaic
> > couplet, meaning 'hail and farewell.'

I will learn Latin, and do other things, just, learning to use Devuan/(Gentoo
previously) GNU/Linux still takes huge share of my time with little left for
other things in life. But it is a powerful tool, and I have been using
GNU/Linux effectively for many years. Haven't wasted the time, but it is huge
share in my schedule...

I will learn Latin, but my first book to read in Latin will be _Vulgata_ by St
Jerome. Can't trust modern translations of Bible, actually so much undeserving
of trust that they verge on disgusting... (not saying that like a theologian
which I'm not, but like a regular Catholic Church goer who listens to the
reading from the Bible attentively on daily Mass; some of us are just as
attentive to the literature known as the Holy Scripture as our Protestant
relatives in religion).

> ..sissy. ;o) 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web
> http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD

I don't see how the stop and search on pilots can be blamed straight on Trump.

The drone assassinations, however, can be put squarely on Obama, and those
really escalated during his presidency. Obama really was the Drone President...
Due to Devuan taking huge share of my time, I have not followed how Trump fares
in the use of drones, nor if the President's approval is still needed for drone
assassinations.

Lots of things to object to Trump, but would Hillary really have been the
better choice?

For us Croats, I have to say it was a good thing, that our President Kolinda,
and we are just 4 1/2 million of people, was about the main organizer for the
meeting of Visegrád Group, in Poland, a week or so ago, where President Trump
participated. I was proud. Would have been proud if it had been President
Hillary instead, equally proud... I respect American President as an
institution.

Still, I don't think Trump is so very bad.

Also I say openly: NATO is better than Russia. And Russia has no right to
occupy Ukraine, which they continue to do. But... Putin is a killer, and a
neocommunist... wants to revive the Soviet Empire...

We, Croatians, have been in our ancestral land for more than thirteen
centuries, we came from Iran (way before Islam, pls.), and are only as much
Slavic as we mixed (a lot, we mixed a lot) with the Ukrainians and Polish
ancestors of those lands in Europe where we stopped before reaching to the
lands where we live now, from Central Europe fringes to the Adriatic Sea, but
we are not related to Russians. We are most related to exactly Ukrainians.

And for a conscious Croat like me, I feel both the hungercide on Ukrainians in
the XX century during Stalin, and this occupation in exactly those lands that
were vacated by the hunger-killings of millions of Ukrainians, an affront... As
if on my own nation. (There are volonteer Croats fighting for Ukraine, I
support them.)

I'm not belligerent, but there can be military actions that are justified
because they are in defence of the civilian population, by means of threat, or
by use of real force.

Trump squarely made Assad the Syrian president understand that gas attacks on
civilian population won't be tollerated by launching precision strikes on
Syrian military facilities. I approved of that move, months ago now. I still
praise it. Obama never had the guts for such an action. Obama failed in that
region, and Syria made Russia's military prowess come to the fore... (Well
there's more to it, but it 

[DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Antonio Volpicelli]

hi to all,

I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii, If anyone wants 
to try them just install from the usual external repo.

If there is something wrong,  send me an email/comment on my blog/explain the 
problem on irc channel (#devuan or #devuan-dev).

Remember this packages are experimental

o/
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Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:46:14 -0700, Rick wrote in message 
<20170716054614.gi28...@linuxmafia.com>:

> Quoting Miroslav Rovis (miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr):
> 
> > But pls. people, I don't understand Latin so well... Nor have time
> > to study. Already breaking down tired from lots of work with
> > polishing my Devuan today... Could you pls. translate. There'll be
> > others who would benefit...
> 
> OK, but I'll warn that putting it in a living language makes it seem
> like in-your-face polemics rather than a sly antiquarian joke.  It
> say, in deliberately bad Anglo-leaning Latin:
> 
>'The man in the White House, who is angry and has fake hair, is
>dishonourable and a danger to the country.'

..sissy. ;o) 
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web
http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD

> > I'm referring to also:
> > 
> > Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> > > Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit...  ;-3)
> 
>   'Perhaps it will be pleasant to remember these things some day.'
> 
> It's what Aeneas tells his exhausted, shipwrecked followers in 
> _The Aeneid_, book 1.  (Renaud/Ron is quite the wit.  I doff my hat.)
>  
> > > Ave atque vale,
> 
> And that is the great poet Gaius Valerius Catullus's famous elegaic
> couplet, meaning 'hail and farewell.'
> 
> 
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-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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