Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:14:43PM -0500, John Morris wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote:
> > Dragan FOSS wrote:
> > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
> > >time and resources.
> > 
> > 
> > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of
> > computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.
> 
> I think you are joking, but it helps not to confuse the three big forks
> 
> 1.  Linux / GNU / X, this is the fork Devuan is on and few Devuan
> installs are on ARM.  At this late date, there probably aren't many on
> x86_32 either.  Which is why discussion of eliminating a big chunk or
> archive space and compile time will continue to recur until eventually
> nobody can muster a good argument for continuing.


Hi John,

you  might probably want to have a look at:

  http://popcon.devuan.org/

Whatever the statistical significance of those data, it seems that
between 15% and 20% of Devuan installations are on i386. So apparently
there is no reason at all to drop it, rather the opposite.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Juergen Moebius]

Am Saturday,  22-07-2017 at 03:14PM John Morris wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote:

> 1.  Linux / GNU / X, this is the fork Devuan

No, not only Devuan. You forgot the great "Slackware",
the mother of Linux distributions. It's number one for me! 
Unfortunately Slackware comes with small packages
and you must build by yourself the things you need.
so I use Devuan and in the past Debian Wheezy.
Nevertheless I also build Slackware servers for business.

Greetings,
Juergen from Germany
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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:45:23AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:

> The bad news is that if this is the only step I take, "apt-get" will
> want to upgrade 1248 packages (it looks more impressive when I write it
> out . . One Thousand, Two Hundred and Forty Eight packages) with a
> download size of 608 Mb.

There really needs to be a way of doing this in a staged manner, 
i.e., not all at once, for those who don't have huge disk space 
available.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:14:43PM -0500, John Morris wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote:
> > Dragan FOSS wrote:
> > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
> > >time and resources.
> > 
> > 
> > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of
> > computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.
> 
> I think you are joking, but it helps not to confuse the three big forks
> 
> 1.  Linux / GNU / X, this is the fork Devuan is on and few Devuan
> installs are on ARM.  At this late date, there probably aren't many on
> x86_32 either.  Which is why discussion of eliminating a big chunk or
> archive space and compile time will continue to recur until eventually
> nobody can muster a good argument for continuing.

I'm still on a 32-bit Intel machine, and given an OS with the 
fficiency of Devuan, it's perfectly capable of doing what I need.
Does this count as an x86_32?  If so, I'd be happy with Devuan keeping 
it for a long time yet.  If not, I'd like to know what it *does* count 
as.

hendrik@notlookedfor:~$ uname -a
Linux notlookedfor 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.43-2 
(2017-04-30) i686 GNU/Linux
hendrik@notlookedfor:~$ 

I'm *thinking* of upgrading, butt until I can get a better laptop that 
doesn't have significant vulnerabilities baked into the *hardware*, 
I'd rather keep using what I've got.

-- hendrik

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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[John Morris]

On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote:
> Dragan FOSS wrote:
> >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
> >time and resources.
> 
> 
> As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of
> computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.

I think you are joking, but it helps not to confuse the three big forks

1.  Linux / GNU / X, this is the fork Devuan is on and few Devuan
installs are on ARM.  At this late date, there probably aren't many on
x86_32 either.  Which is why discussion of eliminating a big chunk or
archive space and compile time will continue to recur until eventually
nobody can muster a good argument for continuing.

2.  Linux / Android, that is what is on most "smart" phones, "smart"
TVs, tablets, etc.

3.  Linux / RedHat, SystemD and the rest of RedHat OS, found on too many
former LGX distros.


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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 04:25:55PM -0500, Don Wright wrote:
> Dragan FOSS wrote:
> >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
> >time and resources.
> 
> As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of
> computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.

And why exactly machines that run Android or iToy would be relevant here?
The vast majority of computers that run Debian/Devuan are amd64, plus a
non-negligible minority of armhf and arm64.

The rest of architectures are worth keeping -- if you want to be an
universal operating system -- but are of quite low priority for a first stab
at packaging a desktop environment.

i386 in particular needs to die.  While I do respect people who keep
historic machines working, 99.44% of current i386 users have it installed
only because our websites suck and show or shown i386 as the primary
download rather than something only slightly more relevant than m68k or
alpha.

_Real_ i386 machines have a single core (a few Pentium 4 models have HT but
no NX; not sure about last wave of mobiles), came with less that a GB of
memory and tend to take 150 watts for performance worse than what a cheap
SoC delivers for 3 watts.  Thus, people who actually have one of those would
find a heavy-weight desktop environment a bad idea.

Thus, if you have a machine that's capable of running Cinnamon at non-snail
speeds, you're using the wrong arch.  Please crossgrade.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can.
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener.
⠈⠳⣄ A master species delegates.
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[zap]

Oh, and then there's *this* as a reason for supporting arm:

https://notabug.org/libreboot/libreboot/issues/264

apparently someone is trying to reverse engineer arm without lima...
which could be very advantageous to devuan and other free software
distros...


On 07/21/2017 05:25 PM, Don Wright wrote:
> Dragan FOSS wrote:
>> I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
>> time and resources.
>
> As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of
> computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.
>
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Don Wright]

Dragan FOSS wrote:
>I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
>time and resources.


As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of
computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.

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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Dragan FOSS]

On 07/21/2017 09:02 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

 Cinnamon 3.0.x (only amd64)


I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of 
time and resources.

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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Ismael L. Donis Garcia]

- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE



On 2017-07-21 13:30, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

- Original Message - From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE



On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

- Original Message - From: Antonio Volpicelli
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM
Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

hi to all,
I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii,
If anyone wants to try them just install from the usual external repo.
If there is something wrong,  send me an email/comment on my 
blog/explain the problem

on irc channel (#devuan or #devuan-dev).

Remember this packages are experimental


What is the repository link?

Regards
--
Ismael



You'll find it here:

https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list

Of course you could also put it in /etc/apt/sources.list if you prefer

golinux



I just downloaded it locally to the repository:
deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan experimental main

And I have not downloaded any file mate or cinnanmon

The script I used is the following:




[cut]

-

Sorry I just supplied the info for the repo mentioned.  From this - 
https://git.devuan.org/AntoFox - it looks like you might find them in 
jessie-proposed.


As per this post on #devuan:
 Cinnamon 3.0.x (only amd64) is in jessie-backports on hezeh.org
you might also want to poke around http://hezeh.org/the-hezeh-repository/

#devuan logs discussing cinnamon are around here:
https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-01-21/?msg=79738856=2

golinux



Now I've looked at the repository and I see packages for 32 bit
http://hezeh.org/packages/?dir=pool/main/c/cinnamon

My system is 32 bit, anyway if I can not test cinnamon test mate 1.18 on 
ascii 32 bit


Thanks for the link
--
Ismael
Devuan User : http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan 



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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[golinux]

On 2017-07-21 13:30, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

- Original Message - From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE



On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

- Original Message - From: Antonio Volpicelli
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM
Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

hi to all,
I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii,
If anyone wants to try them just install from the usual external 
repo.
If there is something wrong,  send me an email/comment on my 
blog/explain the problem

on irc channel (#devuan or #devuan-dev).

Remember this packages are experimental


What is the repository link?

Regards
--
Ismael



You'll find it here:

https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list

Of course you could also put it in /etc/apt/sources.list if you prefer

golinux



I just downloaded it locally to the repository:
deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan experimental main

And I have not downloaded any file mate or cinnanmon

The script I used is the following:




[cut]

-

Sorry I just supplied the info for the repo mentioned.  From this - 
https://git.devuan.org/AntoFox - it looks like you might find them in 
jessie-proposed.


As per this post on #devuan:
 Cinnamon 3.0.x (only amd64) is in jessie-backports on 
hezeh.org
you might also want to poke around 
http://hezeh.org/the-hezeh-repository/


#devuan logs discussing cinnamon are around here:
https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-01-21/?msg=79738856=2

golinux

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Simon Hobson]

I wrote:

> All the time, a lot of people we stood on the sidelines willing them to fail.

Oops, s/we/were/

Personally I was watching and thinking "that's one hell of a task, I'm a bit 
sceptical* but I sure as heck hope they manage it".
* Not knowing who these veterans were, and their level of skill and 
determination.

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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Ismael L. Donis Garcia]

- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE



On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

- Original Message - From: Antonio Volpicelli
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM
Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

hi to all,
I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii,
If anyone wants to try them just install from the usual external repo.
If there is something wrong,  send me an email/comment on my 
blog/explain the problem

on irc channel (#devuan or #devuan-dev).

Remember this packages are experimental


What is the repository link?

Regards
--
Ismael



You'll find it here:

https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list

Of course you could also put it in /etc/apt/sources.list if you prefer

golinux



I just downloaded it locally to the repository:
deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan experimental main

And I have not downloaded any file mate or cinnanmon

The script I used is the following:

#!/bin/sh
if pidof -x $(basename $0) > /dev/null; then
 for p in $(pidof -x $(basename $0)); do
   if [ $p -ne $$ ]; then
 exit
   fi
 done
fi
ARQUITECTURA=i386,amd64
METODO=http
RAMA=experimental
HOST=auto.mirror.devuan.org
DIR_MIRROR=/mnt/datos/sistemas/linux/devuan/experimental
SECCIONES=main

echo "="
echo "Actualizando los repositorios DEVUAN 'experimental'; main"
echo "="
echo ""
debmirror -a ${ARQUITECTURA} \
-s ${SECCIONES} \
-h ${HOST}/devuan \
-d ${RAMA} -r / --progress \
-e 
${METODO} --postcleanup --ignore-small-errors --ignore-missing-release --ignore-release-gpg 
--nosource --allow-dist-rename \

--diff=none \
${DIR_MIRROR}

Best Regards
--
Ismael
Devuan User : http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan 



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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[golinux]

On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

- Original Message - From: Antonio Volpicelli
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM
Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

hi to all,
I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii,
If anyone wants to try them just install from the usual external repo.
If there is something wrong,  send me an email/comment on my 
blog/explain the problem

on irc channel (#devuan or #devuan-dev).

Remember this packages are experimental


What is the repository link?

Regards
--
Ismael



You'll find it here:

https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list

Of course you could also put it in /etc/apt/sources.list if you prefer

golinux


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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Simon Hobson]

Boruch Baum  wrote:

> The bad news is that if this is the only step I take, "apt-get" will
> want to upgrade 1248 packages (it looks more impressive when I write it
> out . . One Thousand, Two Hundred and Forty Eight packages) with a
> download size of 608 Mb.


What if, instead of doing "apt-get [dist-]upgrade" you do "apt-get install 
reportbug" ? That will upgrade reportbug and only other packages that need an 
upgrade to satisfy dependencies.


Boruch Baum  wrote:

> 3] Isn't it doing something quite unacceptable that it should never have
>   been doing in the first place?

In an ideal world, yes. But bear in mind that a small bunch of people decided 
to do something practical about the cancer of systemd and fork Debian. Debian 
has been going for a lng time, and has had a lng time to get all the 
infrastructure into place.
Devuan had to start from scratch, work out a way to make a repository system 
work with split sources (most from Debian, some from Devuan), fix/replace those 
key packages that were "broken" by systemd but weren't really optional, 
organise hosting for everything, etc, etc. All the time, a lot of people we 
stood on the sidelines willing them to fail.
Against all this, this small bunch of people who are clearly much cleverer than 
I in these matters, made it happen.

There were a few rough edges, and probably will be for some time - lots of 
systemd to cure, too few volunteers to do it. Lets try and stay positive shall 
we ?

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:45:23AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> On 2017-07-22 00:23, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:
> > Boruch Baum wrote on 21/07/17 23:50:
> > > Where else should I be looking?
> >
> > Perhaps you've set "APT::Default-Release "jessie";" ?
> >
> > Without that, you'll get the more balanced pinning of 500 and 100.
> > I think I saw some Debian bug report (on apt?) for this.
> 
> Thanks, Ralph!
> 
> That's good news and solved the immediate mystery, but isn't yet an
> entire solution.
> 
> The good news is that, indeed, that was the only line in my
> /etc/apt/apt.conf file, and upon being commented out, running apt-cache
> policy on a package such as reportbug did report all 990 pinnings gone.
> 

-_- 

I am very glad you solved your problem, in the end. For the future,
please try to be more considerate before rushing to report the
"incompetent" behaviour of something of somebody else :)

Here at Devuan we naturally tend to love unconditionally all those who
are in good faith, irrespective or their own "moments" (and we all
have ours). But you might get much nastier replies and worse reactions
elsewhere ;)

WithLove

KatolaZ


P.S.: Concerning the onethousand-twohundred-and-counting packages to
upgrade, it looks like your system has remained stuck somewhere close
to late 2015 or early 2016, so it's normal to have that many packages
to be upgraded in 18 months, especially if you enable -backports,
-updates, and -security.

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
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[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Ismael L. Donis Garcia]

- Original Message - 
From: Antonio Volpicelli

To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM
Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

hi to all,
I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii,
If anyone wants to try them just install from the usual external repo.
If there is something wrong,  send me an email/comment on my blog/explain 
the problem

on irc channel (#devuan or #devuan-dev).

Remember this packages are experimental


What is the repository link?

Regards
--
Ismael
Devuan User : http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan


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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

On 2017-07-22 00:23, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:
> Boruch Baum wrote on 21/07/17 23:50:
> > Where else should I be looking?
>
> Perhaps you've set "APT::Default-Release "jessie";" ?
>
> Without that, you'll get the more balanced pinning of 500 and 100.
> I think I saw some Debian bug report (on apt?) for this.

Thanks, Ralph!

That's good news and solved the immediate mystery, but isn't yet an
entire solution.

The good news is that, indeed, that was the only line in my
/etc/apt/apt.conf file, and upon being commented out, running apt-cache
policy on a package such as reportbug did report all 990 pinnings gone.

The bad news is that if this is the only step I take, "apt-get" will
want to upgrade 1248 packages (it looks more impressive when I write it
out . . One Thousand, Two Hundred and Forty Eight packages) with a
download size of 608 Mb.

The over-riding news is that it's getting too close to Shabbat to be
starting to mess with this kind of thing, so continuing this will have
to wait until Saturday night or Sunday.

-- 
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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Ralph Ronnquist]

Boruch Baum wrote on 21/07/17 23:50:

On 2017-07-21 14:14, KatolaZ wrote:

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:39:50AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:

Just to clarify, and since you are talking about "default" pin levels:
the default pin level of standard Devuan repositories is 500. The
default for backports and experimental is 100. So I can't explain
where does your "default" 990 come from, except for an obvious
mangling with pins on your side.

Devuan is far from being perfect, and has several glitches, but please
let's try to be honest and do not attribute our own glitches to Devuan
as well: it would just be totally unfair :)


I've just now looked AGAIN manually and using grep, and haven't found
anywhere in /etc/apt or its sub-directories any explicit pin for
anything 990.

Where else should I be looking?



Perhaps you've set "APT::Default-Release "jessie";" ?

Without that, you'll get the more balanced pinning of 500 and 100.
I think I saw some Debian bug report (on apt?) for this.

Ralph.
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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 09:40:27AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:

[cut]
> 
> 2] Isn't it a legitimate devuan package from a legitimate currently
>supported devuan repository?

if you are not using the 6.6.3+devuan1.3 version, then it's not a
package in a legitimate currently supported devuna repository.

> 
> 3] Isn't it doing something quite unacceptable that it should never have
>been doing in the first place?
> 
> 4] Sholdn't it be fixed, or removed, and / or have users pointed to an
>upgrade path?
>

I have said alredy that you must use reportbug-6.6.3+devuan1.3 in
jessie. The other version you are mentioning was removed from Devuan
before RC1 came out.

And I am convinced that you must still have a pin somewhere in
/etc/apt/preferences.d, because 990 is not a default pin level
anywhere in devuan. This is what I get on ascii:

# apt-cache policy reportbug
reportbug:
  Installed: 7.1.6+devuan2.1
  Candidate: 7.1.6+devuan2.1
Version table:
   *** 7.1.6+devuan2.1 500
   500 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 
Packages
   500 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii/main i386 Packages
   500 http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii/main amd64 Packages
   500 http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii/main i386 Packages
   100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
# ls /etc/apt/preferences.d/
avoid-systemd
# cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/avoid-systemd
Package: systemd-sysv
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: -1
#

and I keep avoid-systemd only for romatic reasons, since it is not
needed any more since jessie beta (May 2016). 

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

On 2017-07-21 14:14, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:39:50AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
>
> Just to clarify, and since you are talking about "default" pin levels:
> the default pin level of standard Devuan repositories is 500. The
> default for backports and experimental is 100. So I can't explain
> where does your "default" 990 come from, except for an obvious
> mangling with pins on your side.
>
> Devuan is far from being perfect, and has several glitches, but please
> let's try to be honest and do not attribute our own glitches to Devuan
> as well: it would just be totally unfair :)

I've just now looked AGAIN manually and using grep, and haven't found
anywhere in /etc/apt or its sub-directories any explicit pin for
anything 990.

Where else should I be looking?

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

On 2017-07-21 14:01, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:46:27AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> > On 2017-07-21 13:24, KatolaZ wrote:
> > > Please check this first, since dozens of people are using reportbug
> > > from jessie, and their bugs are correctly reported to bugs.devuan.org.
> >
> > Enzo, I should add that though I manually submitted THREE bug reports to
> > devuan this morning, I have received neither confirmation nor email
> > bounce from any, nor does a search at http://bugs.devuan.org/ show
> > record of reciept of any of my emails. Attached is a copy of one of the
> > three emailed bug reports.
>
> You should exercise some patience, please :) The bug reports are
> processed in batches. Your emails arrived on the server aroun 11:40,
> 11:50, 12:30 UTC time, and have been processed. You should have
> received confirmation emails by now. Also, the pages on
> bugs.devuan.org are not updated immediately, so your bugs will appear
> there soon.

Just got confirmation, now. My expectation was based upon the debian
operational method, which is immediate. Since most of your target
"audience" are debian "defectors" with that expectation, maybe add a
comment message in reportbug and the website saying what you just wrote
me.

Thanks.

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

On 2017-07-21 13:57, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:39:50AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> > Thanks for a quick response.
> >
> >
> > On 2017-07-21 13:24, KatolaZ wrote:
> > > Which version of reportbug are you using?
> >
> > The offending version was 6.6.6~bpo8+1, and the upgraded (current)
> > version is 7.1.6+devuan2.1.
>
> So it was not Devuan's incompetence, for once :)

Well, that's a bit premature. And possibly over-sensitive . . .

> >
> > > jessie has 6.6.3+devuan1.3,
> >
> > That version does show up on my apt-cache policy output, pinned to the
> > default 990 from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie/main.
> >
> > However, version 6.6.6~bpo8+1 was likewise pinned to the default 990
> > from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports/main
>
> So it's not installed because you have pinned a repo manually, which
> again is not Devuan's fault

1] Not so, sherlock. Better to ask me: Did you Boruch pin that manually?
   No, Enzo, I did no such thing.

1.1] But Boruch, did you double-check? Yes, Enzo, I did, and there is
   something curious, in that I don't see anywhere in /etc/apt anything
   being pinned explicitly to value 990. Where else should I look?

2] Isn't it a legitimate devuan package from a legitimate currently
   supported devuan repository?

3] Isn't it doing something quite unacceptable that it should never have
   been doing in the first place?

4] Sholdn't it be fixed, or removed, and / or have users pointed to an
   upgrade path?


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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 02:01:46PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Hi,
> 
> You should exercise some patience, please :) The bug reports are
> processed in batches. Your emails arrived on the server aroun 11:40,
> 11:50, 12:30 UTC time, and have been processed. You should have
> received confirmation emails by now. Also, the pages on
> bugs.devuan.org are not updated immediately, so your bugs will appear
> there soon.
> 

...and just to clarify, since we talk about glitches: there was indeed
a small glitch with processing one of your three bug reports, due to a
recent change we introduced to correctly handle certain kinds of
follow-up messages.

That glitch actually caused the slightly-larger-than-usual delay on
delivering the remaining confirmation emails. Sorry for that.

Thanks a lot for reporting it :)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:39:50AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:

[cut]

> 
> That version does show up on my apt-cache policy output, pinned to the
> default 990 from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie/main.
> 
> However, version 6.6.6~bpo8+1 was likewise pinned to the default 990
> from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports/main
>

Just to clarify, and since you are talking about "default" pin levels:
the default pin level of standard Devuan repositories is 500. The
default for backports and experimental is 100. So I can't explain
where does your "default" 990 come from, except for an obvious
mangling with pins on your side.

Devuan is far from being perfect, and has several glitches, but please
let's try to be honest and do not attribute our own glitches to Devuan
as well: it would just be totally unfair :)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] /dev/ttyUSBn moving around after wake from suspend

[Lars Noodén]

On 07/17/2017 01:43 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> ...
> I have the same.  I have had some success with trying to map a physical
> port the dongle is attached to with a persistent name, and then the
> kernel, for reasons seemingly known only to it, reorders them and it all
> goes out the window.
> ...

On 07/17/2017 03:27 PM, G.W. Haywood wrote:
> ...
> You might be able to do something to differentiate between them if you
> plug them into different hubs, and look for the hub ID as well as the
> ttyUSB device.  Many PCs have more than one internal hub installed,
> here's my laptop:
> ...

Thanks.  It looks like this might be the way to go, but my initial
attempts haven't gone far.  I'll keep looking around.

One thing that I have a question about still is the output from udev:

# /etc/init.d/udev restart
Stopping the hotplug events dispatcher: systemd-udevd.
Starting the hotplug events dispatcher: systemd-udevdstarting version 233

Is a udev restart enough to reload?  How much systemd is in there?

Regards,
Lars

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:46:27AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> On 2017-07-21 13:24, KatolaZ wrote:
> > Please check this first, since dozens of people are using reportbug
> > from jessie, and their bugs are correctly reported to bugs.devuan.org.
> 
> Enzo, I should add that though I manually submitted THREE bug reports to
> devuan this morning, I have received neither confirmation nor email
> bounce from any, nor does a search at http://bugs.devuan.org/ show
> record of reciept of any of my emails. Attached is a copy of one of the
> three emailed bug reports.
> 

Hi,

You should exercise some patience, please :) The bug reports are
processed in batches. Your emails arrived on the server aroun 11:40,
11:50, 12:30 UTC time, and have been processed. You should have
received confirmation emails by now. Also, the pages on
bugs.devuan.org are not updated immediately, so your bugs will appear
there soon.

Best Regards

KatolaZ

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:39:50AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> Thanks for a quick response.
> 
> 
> On 2017-07-21 13:24, KatolaZ wrote:
> > Which version of reportbug are you using?
> 
> The offending version was 6.6.6~bpo8+1, and the upgraded (current)
> version is 7.1.6+devuan2.1.

So it was not Devuan's incompetence, for once :)

> 
> > jessie has 6.6.3+devuan1.3,
> 
> That version does show up on my apt-cache policy output, pinned to the
> default 990 from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie/main.
> 
> However, version 6.6.6~bpo8+1 was likewise pinned to the default 990
> from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports/main

So it's not installed because you have pinned a repo manually, which
again is not Devuan's fault

> 
> > which knows about bugs.devuan.org and correctly uses it, unless you
> > have any other reportbug custom configuration (which is honoured by
> > reportbug and overrides the defaults).
> 
> I just now double-checked both my ~/reportbugrc and the version at /etc.
> No relevant customization.


If you are on jessie, just please install the version of reportbug
that comes with Jessie. If you are using ascii, please use the version
in ascii.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

On 2017-07-21 13:24, KatolaZ wrote:
> Please check this first, since dozens of people are using reportbug
> from jessie, and their bugs are correctly reported to bugs.devuan.org.

Enzo, I should add that though I manually submitted THREE bug reports to
devuan this morning, I have received neither confirmation nor email
bounce from any, nor does a search at http://bugs.devuan.org/ show
record of reciept of any of my emails. Attached is a copy of one of the
three emailed bug reports.

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From: Boruch Baum 
To: Devuan Bug Tracking System 
Subject: mutt: Install missing required dependencies (libxapian30)
Message-ID: <20170721122023.udbzgvx3zvocf...@e15-2016.optimum.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2)
Status: RO

Subject: mutt: Install missing required dependencies (libxapian30)
Package: mutt
Version: 1.7.2-1
Severity: serious

Dear Maintainer,

Upon upgrading `mutt' from the stable to testing repositories, mutt
ceased to function, offering the following error message:

   #+BEGIN_SRC conf
   mutt: symbol lookup error:  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnotmuch.so.4:
   undefined symbol:
_ZN6Xapian9Compactor26resolve_duplicate_metadataERKNSt7__cxx1112basic_strin=
gIcSt11char_traitsIcESaIcEEEmPS7_
   #+End_SRC

Performing the following fixed the problem for me:

   #+BEGIN_SRC conf
   apt-get install libxapian30

   The following packages will be upgraded:
 libxapian-dev libxapian30 xapian-tools
   #+END_SRC


-- Package-specific info:
NeoMutt 20170113 (1.7.2)
Copyright (C) 1996-2016 Michael R. Elkins and others.
Mutt comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `mutt -vv'.
Mutt is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; type `mutt -vv' for details.

System: Linux 4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 (x86_64)
libidn: 1.29 (compiled with 1.33)
hcache backends: tokyocabinet

Compiler:
Using built-in specs.
COLLECT_GCC=3Dgcc
COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=3D/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/lto-wrapper
Target: x86_64-linux-gnu
Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion=3D'Debian 6.3.0-2' -=
-with-bugurl=3Dfile:///usr/share/doc/gcc-6/README.Bugs --enable-languages=
=3Dc,ada,c++,java,go,d,fortran,objc,obj-c++ --prefix=3D/usr --program-suffi=
x=3D-6 --program-prefix=3Dx86_64-linux-gnu- --enable-shared --enable-linker=
-build-id --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib --without-included-gettext --enable-threa=
ds=3Dposix --libdir=3D/usr/lib --enable-nls --with-sysroot=3D/ --enable-clo=
cale=3Dgnu --enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-libstdcxx-time=3Dyes --with-de=
fault-libstdcxx-abi=3Dnew --enable-gnu-unique-object --disable-vtable-verif=
y --enable-libmpx --enable-plugin --enable-default-pie --with-system-zlib -=
-disable-browser-plugin --enable-java-awt=3Dgtk --enable-gtk-cairo --with-j=
ava-home=3D/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64/jre --enable-java-home --wit=
h-jvm-root-dir=3D/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64 --with-jvm-jar-dir=3D/=
usr/lib/jvm-exports/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64 --with-arch-directory=3Damd64 --=
with-ecj-jar=3D/usr/share/java/eclipse-ecj.jar --with-target-system-zlib --=
enable-objc-gc=3Dauto --enable-multiarch --with-arch-32=3Di686 --with-abi=
=3Dm64 --with-multilib-list=3Dm32,m64,mx32 --enable-multilib --with-tune=3D=
generic --enable-checking=3Drelease --build=3Dx86_64-linux-gnu --host=3Dx86=
_64-linux-gnu --target=3Dx86_64-linux-gnu
Thread model: posix
gcc version 6.3.0 20161229 (Debian 6.3.0-2)

Configure options: '--build=3Dx86_64-linux-gnu' '--prefix=3D/usr' '--includ=
edir=3D\${prefix}/include' '--mandir=3D\${prefix}/share/man' '--infodir=3D\=
${prefix}/share/info' '--sysconfdir=3D/etc' '--localstatedir=3D/var' '--dis=
able-silent-rules' '--libdir=3D\${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' '--libexecd=
ir=3D\${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' '--disable-maintainer-mode' '--disabl=
e-dependency-tracking' '--with-mailpath=3D/var/mail' '--enable-compressed' =
'--enable-debug' '--enable-fcntl' '--enable-hcache' '--enable-gpgme' '--ena=
ble-imap' '--enable-smtp' '--enable-pop' '--enable-sidebar' '--enable-nntp'=
 '--enable-notmuch' '--disable-fmemopen' '--with-curses' '--with-gnutls' '-=
-with-gss' '--with-idn' '--with-mixmaster' '--with-sasl' '--without-gdbm' '=
--without-bdb' '--without-qdbm' '--with-tokyocabinet' 'build_alias=3Dx86_64=
-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=3D-g -O2 -fdebug-prefix-map=3D/build/mutt-K2ak0h/mutt-1=
=2E7.2=3D. -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=3Dformat-security' 'LD=
FLAGS=3D-Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-z,now' 'CPPFLAGS=3D-Wdate-time -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=
=3D2'

Compilation CFLAGS: -Wall -pedantic -Wno-long-long -g -O2 -fdebug-prefix-ma=
p=3D/build/mutt-K2ak0h/mutt-1.7.2=3D. -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -We=
rror=3Dformat-security -fno-delete-null-pointer-checks

Compile options:
+CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_PGP 

Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

Thanks for a quick response.


On 2017-07-21 13:24, KatolaZ wrote:
> Which version of reportbug are you using?

The offending version was 6.6.6~bpo8+1, and the upgraded (current)
version is 7.1.6+devuan2.1.

> jessie has 6.6.3+devuan1.3,

That version does show up on my apt-cache policy output, pinned to the
default 990 from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie/main.

However, version 6.6.6~bpo8+1 was likewise pinned to the default 990
from http://auto.mirrors.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports/main

> which knows about bugs.devuan.org and correctly uses it, unless you
> have any other reportbug custom configuration (which is honoured by
> reportbug and overrides the defaults).

I just now double-checked both my ~/reportbugrc and the version at /etc.
No relevant customization.


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Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:15:59AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote:
> 
> Earlier today, I filed a bug report against the devuan testing version
> of 'mutt', but because I was using the stable version of devuan, and the
> stable version of reportbug, the report went to debian.
> 
> Now, that was incompetent. Was it incompetent of me or of devuan or
> both?

Which version of reportbug are you using? jessie has 6.6.3+devuan1.3,
which knows about bugs.devuan.org and correctly uses it, unless you
have any other reportbug custom configuration (which is honoured by
reportbug and overrides the defaults).

Please check this first, since dozens of people are using reportbug
from jessie, and their bugs are correctly reported to bugs.devuan.org.

Thanks

KatolaZ

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[DNG] reportbug is the stable repository

[Boruch Baum]

Earlier today, I filed a bug report against the devuan testing version
of 'mutt', but because I was using the stable version of devuan, and the
stable version of reportbug, the report went to debian.

Now, that was incompetent. Was it incompetent of me or of devuan or
both?

Updating a recipient email address in a package isn't some major effort
that requires new testing repository dependencies - it's probably just a
debian quilt patch, and a trivial one at that.

The results are:

1] wasteful and unnecessary period of confusion and correspondence to
   clear up the situation;

2] increased negative reputation for the project in that it's not
   playing nicely with its parent project;

3] increased wariness of reporting bugs;

4] increased wariness of depending on the distribution for anything
   critical.

4.1] What an observer to the project can expect to see is a community
   expending much time and effort engaging in all kinds of very lengthy
   off-topic discussions, with an *extremely* low signal-noise-ratio,
   while certificates are left to expire multiple times, where scheduled
   outages are only announced to the "campfire" list, not the "announce"
   or "developer" list, and where bugs for the stable release are sent
   (only) to another distribution.

Was this constructive?

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Re: [DNG] Ansible and Devuan (bug or feature?)

[Jaromil]

dear Emilien,

sorry for late reply. If you like to continue the conversation I
recommend inscribing to this list, your mail was stuck for quite a
while. Also thanks for raising the issue.


On Tue, 25 Apr 2017, Emilien Mantel wrote:

> In Devuan, IMHO should be:
> 
> "ansible_distribution": "Devuan",
> "ansible_distribution_major_version": "1",
> "ansible_distribution_release": jessie",
> "ansible_distribution_version": "1.0",
> "ansible_os_family": "Debian"
> 
> 
> Ansible parses /etc/os-release (see:
  
https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/5bbf0d9cb679d803072535b9c1d9e0db680633ac/lib/ansible/module_utils/facts.py)


just like /etc/debian_version (whose issue was raised recently) also
/etc/os-release is provided by the base-files package. An intervention
on that package should then address also this problem IMHO.

Investigating the issue I also found out a discrepancy in Debian: the
os-release manpage is not contained in the package providing it but,
for some obscure reason, it is contained in the infamous systemd
package, which somehow has fagocitated also the base-files manual.

 systemd: /usr/share/man/man5/os-release.5.gz

I believe this should also be corrected and we should bring
os-release.5 back home.


ciao

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