Re: [DNG] Fw: Gentoo wiki
El 02/09/17 a les 03:30, Steve Litt ha escrit: > Hi all, > > I'm forwarding this from the Supervision list. Really great information > about runit, s6, and daemontools-encore. I think this is handy > information no matter what distro one is using. > > SteveT > > === > > Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:44:07 +0100 > From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard > To: Supervision > Subject: Gentoo wiki > > > For those people who had not noticed: Someone (I shall say no more. > (-:) has been writing on the Gentoo wiki recently. > > * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/S6_and_s6-rc-based_init_system > > * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Runit > > * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/S6 > > * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Daemontools-encore > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > Is this an official documentation site of Devuan project? https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php Some link should appear at: https://www.devuan.org/os/community This scope (init software) should be the main focus of Devuan's documentation. It's difficult for me to believe that documentation is being deployed in a forum. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal
On 21.08.17 01:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: > Hi, > > We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert > to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. > > The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and at > https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/eudev ) utilizes the same logic > like udev does when it comes to interface naming schemes. The patch > appended below would reverse the logic and make it opt-in rather than > opt-out. > > This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or > "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?) "enp0s3"-like scheme. It implies > having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel cmdline to get the "enp0s3"-like > scheme and not touching anything to get the "eth0" scheme. > > To keep these things consistent we should also apply the same patch to > udev as well. > > Thoughts?? Looking at "man ifrename", we see: -u Enable udev output mode. This enables proper integration of ifrename in the udev framework, udevd(8) will use ifrename to assign interface names present in /etc/iftab. In this mode the output of ifrename can be parsed directly by udevd(8) as an IMPORT action. This requires udev version 107 or later. As this appears capable of maintaining static nomenclature for a sane user interface, in the face of lower level irrationality, there appears to be no basis for doing other than retaining the higher standard of udev behaviour. Not only is it feasible to retain static interface names, using a file as we theorised on the thread, but that file is /etc/iftab. Simple. Erik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fw: Gentoo wiki
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > Hi all, > > I'm forwarding this from the Supervision list. Really great information > about runit, s6, and daemontools-encore. I think this is handy > information no matter what distro one is using. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard is _always_ worth reading. Yay. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Fw: Gentoo wiki
Hi all, I'm forwarding this from the Supervision list. Really great information about runit, s6, and daemontools-encore. I think this is handy information no matter what distro one is using. SteveT === Begin forwarded message: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:44:07 +0100 From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard To: Supervision Subject: Gentoo wiki For those people who had not noticed: Someone (I shall say no more. (-:) has been writing on the Gentoo wiki recently. * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/S6_and_s6-rc-based_init_system * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Runit * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/S6 * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Daemontools-encore ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server
>> > I doubt it will be owner controlled, as their laptops aren't - they > still haven't even gotten a blobbed version of coreboot working > (blobbed init code + ME enabled as they insisted on a crappy intel soc) > Purism isn't a trustworthy company. Gee, I thought purism was a trustworthy company, I mean they claim you can get the latest and the greatest without intel me in it and also they claim that they can sprinkle magic fairy dust on all the hardware so that you can use it all without any blobs or firmware that is proprietary... Doesn't that sound just plain trustworthy? Can you honestly say that they cannot be trusted? And moreover, they claim to do what even libreboot and coreboot cannot do. Wow I guess if you believe in magic, anything can happen... ;) > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng <>___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
On 09/01/2017 11:05 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de): > >> I think he meant, threatened the way most people mean threatened, like a >> demand not to do something or else. > It was just a little vague, and I was interested in the 'or else'. > Also, I think misbehaviour from Mozilla Corporation would be of broad > interest generally, even for projects intending to use only derived > codebases. Anyway: > >> Regardless though, Waterfox is well worth replacing firefox in the >> repo. At least in the unstable/testing if nothing else, alas waterfox >> has no ESR version yet. > Waterfox does seem like a reasonable near-term plan for the project > (IMO). I think it should be in ceres at the very least and if possible ascii too. Although I don't know if its possible for jessie to have it too. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng <>___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server
On 09/01/2017 10:43 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > People are mentioning Waterfox yet another reincarnation of Firefox. > Can it run on Devuan ASCII? I have used Palemoon but stopped due to > many issues. YES! and also ceres too. You just can't use it on jessie... for whatever reason... > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng <>___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de): > I think he meant, threatened the way most people mean threatened, like a > demand not to do something or else. It was just a little vague, and I was interested in the 'or else'. Also, I think misbehaviour from Mozilla Corporation would be of broad interest generally, even for projects intending to use only derived codebases. Anyway: > Regardless though, Waterfox is well worth replacing firefox in the > repo. At least in the unstable/testing if nothing else, alas waterfox > has no ESR version yet. Waterfox does seem like a reasonable near-term plan for the project (IMO). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server
People are mentioning Waterfox yet another reincarnation of Firefox. Can it run on Devuan ASCII? I have used Palemoon but stopped due to many issues. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
> To recap, I merely made the point that if individuals at Mozilla > Corporation have been indeed 'threatening' Enrico Weigelt when he > made technical proposals for Firefox -- the term 'threatening' having > been oddly undefined -- and he considers that response unmerited, he > should detail what they did and include the relevant names. > > I'm still mildly curious about what 'threatened' meant. I think he meant, threatened the way most people mean threatened, like a demand not to do something or else. Regardless though, Waterfox is well worth replacing firefox in the repo. At least in the unstable/testing if nothing else, alas waterfox has no ESR version yet. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng <>___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server
> Just try to submit a patch that eg, allows build-time opt-out of > geoloc, motion/ambient sensors, etc, and see what happens. Okay point taken screw firefox... I think waterfox though is more accepting of such patches. > >>> Most of it should still be in their mail archives - and I could publish >>> the personal mails when applicable. >> >> (Which archives, BTW?) > > mozilla.org. > IIRC, it should also be synced to the newsgroups. > >> But you haven't said what this was, and, FWIW, I did spend a few minutes >> looking for it. > > In that case it was 'just' banning me completely from all mozilla > communication channels (all maillists, bugzilla, newsgroups, > forums, wikis, etc). That is just plain evil. I never knew firefox was so hostile to humanity. Although good thing their model allows for something like waterfox to take hold. Thank god... I just detest pocket. > > > --mtx > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng <>___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de): > On 09/01/2017 08:33 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote: > > ...Pan Am aircraft... > > Volkswagen soviet union? > As entertaining as this is, what does this have to do with the Talos 2? Nothing, and it's an annoying and unwarranted digression into the personal, with which I will not participate. To recap, I merely made the point that if individuals at Mozilla Corporation have been indeed 'threatening' Enrico Weigelt when he made technical proposals for Firefox -- the term 'threatening' having been oddly undefined -- and he considers that response unmerited, he should detail what they did and include the relevant names. I'm still mildly curious about what 'threatened' meant. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
On 09/01/2017 08:33 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote: > ...Pan Am aircraft... > Volkswagen soviet union? As entertaining as this is, what does this have to do with the Talos 2? > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng <>___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 19:48:12 +0200, metux IT consult wrote in message <7293f513-c257-5f30-de29-d924cb022...@gr13.net>: > On 31.08.2017 15:48, Edward Bartolo wrote: > > The devil's advocate in me tells me, since making money is involved, > > in the end, history will repeat itself as with what happened with > > 'user-centredness' in GNU/Linux! Those who have used GNU/Linux for > > some long time know pretty well with the shoving down our throats of > > systemd what remains of 'user-centredness'. > > systemd isn't a major threat anymore. we just need some detergences > and maybe a few surgical PR hit men here and there. > > maybe a few PR visible attacks pointing to systemd as the primary > weakness would be fine. ..maybe. They are secretive about it: https://puri.sm/?s=systemd ..maybe they can tell us how they get Gnome 3 up and going? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
...Pan Am aircraft... Volkswagen soviet union? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)
Rick Moen wrote: > If you read the National Transportation Safety Board report on the Pan > American World Airways flight 799 disaster that killed my father in > December '68 I found that after you mentioned it earlier - it made sobering reading. You and your family have my sympathies, it cannot have been easy to come to terms with. I apologise if discussing it causes any issues for you. > , the crucial error (among several) was by an _unnamed_ > engineer in Pan Am service engineering who 'decided that [a recommended > hardware] modification was not necessary', despite having carte blanche > to do any fix costing less than US $50 per airframe and just expense it. > An equally unnamed supervisor reviewed this decision and 'decided, after > coordination with flight operations, that the bulletin was not > applicable to Pan Am aircraft, and no further action was taken. The > reason for this decision was not fully documented.' > > And no names. > > Names. Accountability. I rather like them. On a flying related mailing list I'm on, there used to be a reasonably experienced pilot who pointed out that many issues are like ducks nibbling at your ankles - you can tolerate one or two, but when there's half a dozen then it's hard to ignore them. Reading the NTSB report, the thing that stuck out for me was how this was a real example of that - several small issues, none of which would have caused the crash on their own. I also know that had I been in the position of that engineer or supervisor, then it would have haunted me that had I made a different decision at the time (which may well have been a rational decision based on the facts/understandings known at the time) then the outcome could well have been different. And I do know what that haunting is like - you manage to put the memory out of your mind, then it just re-appears (sometimes at random, sometime because something triggered it) and again you wonder "if I'd done something different, would they still be alive today ?". I'm not sure that naming the people would necessarily help. I assume it could well have been any one of several engineers making that decision for that aircraft - so it was that person's bad luck to be the one (of several) that could have been responsible. Everyone in the team will have known, and the rest probably muttered to themselves "there but for the grace of god ..." at not being the one with the guilty conscience. We see this a lot these days, someone makes a mistake, and the massed crowds (or media) bay for that person's blood (or resignation) - often successfully. I don't see that as constructive in the grand scheme of things - someone made a mistake, they aren't likely to make that mistake again, yet they are chucked out and along with them goes their skills & experience, so chucking them out deprives the future of the those skills & experience. And lets be clear, this engineering decision was not *THE* cause of the crash - it was one of several ducks all nibbling at the ankles of fate. Changing it would almost certainly have avoided the crash, as would different weather, as would a change in the checklist, as would a change in the ATC pressures. I'm sure there were plenty of people arguing that it was the pilots' fault for not setting the flaps correctly - ignoring the human factors, engineering decisions, checklist deficiencies, ATC pressures, weather, etc. I can also speak first hand about how things can quickly get out of hand. In my case I have less than 200 hours in light aircraft, and my "incident" left me with a reusable plane and no injuries other than to my pride. What to a bystander or myself in hindsight should have been a series of easy choices/decisions to make - become a totally different matter when the brown stuff is flying and your decision making process has turned to jelly. So hypothetically speaking ... What if the engineer had been named, and as a result was hounded out of the industry ? Would that have undone the (what looks in hindsight to be a) mistake ? No it wouldn't. What would have happened is that someone else would have had to step into the job, and somewhere down the line a new (probably junior engineer, new to the industry) employed. So overall, the level of skill and experience in the company has gone down - very slightly, but it's gone down. Does anyone benefit from that ? I don't think so. Often, I think the only beneficiaries of such naming and shaming are those who somehow feel their loss has in some way been avenged. We all feel that our loss should be avenged - but that's not always the same thing as justice or what's best for society as a whole. But every case is different. In many cases I agree that it is right to name those responsible, and in many cases it is a good thing if they are not allowed to continue in their trade. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dy
