Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[Edward Bartolo]

I would remove all languages that I do not need. Certainly, you do not
know 45 languages! I suggest you to download the Debian sources (or
Devuanised source packages) if available, open the debian/control
file, and remove all those futile dependencies for all languages that
I don't use.

Yes, I use downright simple solutions, but as long as those simple
hacks continue to work, there doesn't seem there is any need to apply
more complicated solutions.

-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand
the concepts underlying them.
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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2017-11-11 23:00, schrieb KatolaZ:

You must use either packages.devuan.org, or auto.mirror.devuan.org, or
pkgmaster.devuan.org.


auto.mirror.devuan.org makes no difference, still version 45 language 
packs.

Please look at the package archive before you blame me! :-(

Jochen

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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2017-11-11 23:00, schrieb KatolaZ:

You must use either packages.devuan.org, or auto.mirror.devuan.org, or
pkgmaster.devuan.org.

amprolla.devuan.org is not being used for *ages*


I used de.mirror.devuan.org, that links to amprolla. If this is no 
longer a valid mirror, you should communicate such changes.


Jochen

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Re: [DNG] WARNING: lvm2 > 2.02.173-1 breaks some systems and make them unbootable

[Joerg Reisenweber]

On Tue 07 November 2017 17:50:27 John Hughes wrote:
> The separation of / and /usr is a relic of really, really tiny disk sizes.

Like, for example, ARMv7 systems with a 128MB NAND to boot from, keeping /usr 
on a separate storage like SSD? Doesn't sound like an obsolete ancient relic

/j
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Re: [DNG] Documentation format philosophies

[Svante Signell]

On Sat, 2017-11-11 at 13:33 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> >  We use LaTEX in technical documents, 
> 
> LaTeX is wonderful *for what it does*, which is make beautifully
> typeset documents whose linefeeds are determined at compile time, not
> at read time (like ePub, HTML or Xhtml). The problem is that you can't
> reasonably convert LaTeX to XML, HTML, Xhtml or the like.

Ever heard about latex2html?
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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 09:18:48PM +0100, J. Fahrner wrote:
> This is from 
> http://amprolla.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie-security/main/binary-amd64/Packages
> 

You must use either packages.devuan.org, or auto.mirror.devuan.org, or
pkgmaster.devuan.org.

amprolla.devuan.org is not being used for *ages* (like, since before
Devuan Jessie beta went out, IIRC).  It's not listed anywhere. The
Jessie release announcement clearly indicates to use only
auto.mirror.devuan.org, and the latest amprolla rewrite is available
at pkgmaster.devuan.org (plus a series of other mirrors that we are
going to list on www.devuan.org).

Please update your sources.list

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Documentation format philosophies

[Haines Brown]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 01:33:28PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:15:44 +

> LaTeX is wonderful *for what it does*, which is make beautifully
> typeset documents whose linefeeds are determined at compile time, not
> at read time (like ePub, HTML or Xhtml). The problem is that you can't
> reasonably convert LaTeX to XML, HTML, Xhtml or the like.

Conversion of TeX to HTML etc. is a challenge.

These did not work very well for me:

  $ htlatex universal.tex "xhtml,ooffice" "ooffice/! -cmozhtf" "-coo"
  "-cvalidate"

  $ latex2html source

  $ tex4ht ...

I had better luck with the lwarp TeX package. It stumbled on some
aspects of my TeX document, but that was a year ago, and at that point
it was still under early development. I believe today it does better,
but have not checked.

Haines Brown
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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[J. Fahrner]

This is from 
http://amprolla.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie-security/main/binary-amd64/Packages


Package: thunderbird
Version: 1:52.4.0-1~deb8u1
Installed-Size: 109039
Maintainer: Carsten Schoenert 
Architecture: amd64
Replaces: icedove (<< 1:45.6.0-2.1~)
Provides: icedove, mail-reader
Depends: debianutils (>= 1.16), fontconfig, psmisc, x11-utils, 
libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libc6 (>= 2.17), libcairo2 (>= 1.10.2-2~), 
libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.0.2), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.78), libevent-2.0-5 (>= 
2.0.10-stable), libffi6 (>= 3.0.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), 
libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 
2.22.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.31.8), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0), 
libhunspell-1.3-0 (>= 1.3.3), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), 
libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), 
libpixman-1-0 (>= 0.19.6), libstartup-notification0 (>= 0.8), libstdc++6 
(>= 4.9), libx11-6, libx11-xcb1, libxcb-shm0, libxcb1, libxcomposite1 
(>= 1:0.3-1), libxdamage1 (>= 1:1.1), libxext6, libxfixes3, libxrender1, 
libxt6, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.3.4)

Suggests: apparmor, fonts-lyx, libgssapi-krb5-2
Breaks: enigmail (<< 2:1.9.8.1-1~), hunspell-ar (<< 0.0.0+20080110-1.1), 
hunspell-da (<< 1:3.1.0-3), hunspell-de-at (<< 20071211-2), 
hunspell-de-ch (<< 20071211-2), hunspell-de-de (<< 20071211-2), 
hunspell-de-med (<< 20090825-1), hunspell-en-ca (<< 1:3.1.0-3), 
hunspell-en-us (<< 20070829-3), hunspell-fr (<< 1:3.1.0-3), 
hunspell-gl-es (<< 2.2a-6), hunspell-hu (<< 1:3.1.0-3), hunspell-ko (<< 
0.3.3-1), hunspell-ne (<< 1:3.1.0-3), hunspell-se (<< 
1.0~beta6.20081222-1.1), hunspell-sh (<< 1:3.1.0-3), hunspell-sr (<< 
1:3.1.0-3), hunspell-uz (<< 0.6-3.1), hunspell-vi (<< 1:3.1.0-3), 
icedove (<< 1:45.6.0-2.1~), lightning (<< 1:52.4.0-1~deb8u1), myspell-af 
(<< 1:3.1.0-3), myspell-ca (<< 0.6-8), myspell-cs-cz (<< 20040229-4.1), 
myspell-da (<< 1.6.18-1.1), myspell-de-at (<< 20071211-2), myspell-de-ch 
(<< 20071211-2), myspell-de-de (<< 20071211-2), myspell-de-de-oldspell 
(<< 1:2-25.1), myspell-el-gr (<< 0.3-1.1), myspell-en-au (<< 2.1-5), 
myspell-en-gb (<< 1:3.1.0-3), myspell-en-us (<< 1:3.1.0-3), 
myspell-en-za (<< 1:3.1.0-3), myspell-eo (<< 2.1.2000.02.25-41), 
myspell-es (<< 1.10-7), myspell-et (<< 1:20030606-12.1), myspell-fa (<< 
0.20070816-2), myspell-fi (<< 0.7-17.2), myspell-fo (<< 0.2.36-3), 
myspell-fr (<< 1.4-25), myspell-fr-gut (<< 1:1.0-26.1), myspell-ga (<< 
2.0-19), myspell-gd (<< 0.50-7), myspell-gv (<< 0.50-8), myspell-hr (<< 
20060617-2), myspell-hu (<< 0.99.4-1.2), myspell-hy (<< 0.10.1-1.1), 
myspell-it (<< 1:3.1.0-3), myspell-ku (<< 0.20.0-1.1), myspell-lv (<< 
0.7.3-3.1), myspell-nb (<< 2.0.10-3.1), myspell-ne (<< 1.0-4.1), 
myspell-nl (<< 1:1.10-3), myspell-nn (<< 2.0.10-3.1), myspell-pl (<< 
20090830-1), myspell-pt-br (<< 2009.03.30-1.1), myspell-pt-pt (<< 
20090309-1.1), myspell-ru (<< 0.99g5-8.1), myspell-sk (<< 0.5.5a-2.1), 
myspell-sv-se (<< 1.3.8-6-2.2), myspell-sw (<< 1:3.1.0-3), myspell-th 
(<< 1:3.1.0-3), myspell-tl (<< 0.4-0-5), xul-ext-compactheader (<< 
2.1.0~), xul-ext-foxyproxy-standard (<< 4.5.6-debian-2~)
Description: mail/news client with RSS, chat and integrated spam filter 
support

Homepage: http://www.mozilla.org/thunderbird/
Description-md5: 0834e84e4477b5b83149edf61e105571
Recommends: lightning (= 1:52.4.0-1~deb8u1), myspell-en-us | 
hunspell-dictionary | myspell-dictionary

Xul-Appid: {3550f703-e582-4d05-9a08-453d09bdfdc6}
Section: mail
Priority: optional
Filename: 
pool/DEBIAN-SECURITY/updates/main/t/thunderbird/thunderbird_52.4.0-1~deb8u1_amd64.deb

Size: 41368220
MD5sum: 16ca0448ceeeb49ebedfbd3155cf16bc
SHA1: 1708452ba2418e5d9ec9377221aa90edd983ac77
SHA256: fc1a4f3a04ac446cb764ffeb551de1f8af4da8ecdf9d044a4219dfa57842e58c

And this is from 
http://amprolla.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie-security/main/binary-all/Packages


Package: thunderbird-l10n-de
Source: icedove
Version: 1:45.8.0-3~deb8u1
Installed-Size: 791
Maintainer: Christoph Goehre 
Architecture: all
Replaces: icedove-l10n-de (<< 1:45.6.0-2.1~)
Provides: icedove-l10n-de
Depends: thunderbird (<< 1:45.8.0-3~deb8u1.1~), thunderbird (>= 
1:45.8.0-3~deb8u1)

Breaks: icedove-l10n-de (<< 1:45.6.0-2.1~)
Description: German language package for Thunderbird
Homepage: https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:de
Description-md5: b84355301b3680934c743f3984cf95d0
Recommends: hunspell-de-de | hunspell-de-at | hunspell-de-ch | 
myspell-de-de | myspell-de-at | myspell-de-ch

Section: localization
Priority: optional
Filename: 
pool/DEBIAN-SECURITY/updates/main/i/icedove/thunderbird-l10n-de_45.8.0-3~deb8u1_all.deb

Size: 485112
MD5sum: 0c0311261b6a3062587db9d8dc5384df
SHA1: 00e32ea6f431d615141ae7e102ee002581d4415c
SHA256: 8e5bc813d54950d64b798943c14f38598a0927503e8ad1a0e583416e565f6841

Thunderbird Version 52, Language pack version 45!

Please can someone correct that?
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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2017-11-11 11:15, schrieb KatolaZ:


Just to clarify and to avoid further future confusion, the webpage at
packages.debian.org that you pointed us to clearly shows "[security]"
close to the package name, which means that the package is available
as a security update.

This means that, in order to have it in jessie, you must include the
jessie-security repo in your sources.list.


Sure I have!

deb http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security main contrib 
non-free

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[DNG] Documentation format philosophies

[jacksprat]

Steve:  Thanks for the detailed reply.  Bluefish was not a package in Salix
Linux, so I downloaded the source and muddled my way though

 {autoconf; ./configure; make; sudo make install}

and tried it on some leapad files.  I don't expect to live long enough to
explore all its possibilities!

I am half-way though writing the manual for the sinitrc 2nd edition [as
pure text].  There are a few porting things that need documenting [they are
mostly in my head at the moment].

One thing that puzzles me about the DNG mailing lists.  The partial email
address [eg jack@???] is printed for some users [incuding me]!  Surely this
is a bug.

jacksprat
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Re: [DNG] Documentation format philosophies

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:15:44 +
jack da  wrote:

> Steve Litt:  these days I write all my personal documents with
> Leafpad, which adds word-wrap capability to what can be achieved with
> plain text editors ex, nano, etc.

If you include Vim in that list, Vim has at least one Zencoding plugin.
With Zencoding, you can set up a start/end tag pair, with the cursor
resting where you're supposed to type, with one keystroke.
> 
> I discovered that I cannot access the raw MarkDown text of the
> original Alternative Init .. document [copy+paste from the
> talk.devuan.org web site strips the markup directives].  Just as well
> I will write the new paper from scratch.

Markdown,  Asciidoc, and Asciidoctor are wonderful *for what they do*.
They're not a documentation be all and end all.

> 
> I was once fluent in HTML, and XHTML seems to just to be a strict
> version thereof.

Yes. And as far as fluency,  when you use Bluefish, it makes
suggestions for what tags to put and what to put in the tags, making
Xhtml open to the less than fluent.



>  We use LaTEX in technical documents, 

LaTeX is wonderful *for what it does*, which is make beautifully
typeset documents whose linefeeds are determined at compile time, not
at read time (like ePub, HTML or Xhtml). The problem is that you can't
reasonably convert LaTeX to XML, HTML, Xhtml or the like.

LaTeX is the best around if you know the page size, line width, and
margins at compile time.

> and I can
> quickly become fluent in any sensible markup language [including
> MarkDown].

Yes. Markdown and Asciidoc are dead bang simple.

> 
> The question to ask is:  are the documentation tools widely
> available;  are they open source;  can they be built without many
> dependent packages/libraries?


Let me answer your questions, in the context of the Bluefish editor,
which I think is superior for HTML,  Xhtml, and probably several other
languages:

* Widely available? : Yes. Most distros have a Bluefish package, and
  you can compile the code straight from the Bluefish authors. I had to
  do this when the Void Linux version of Bluefish went bad.

* Open Source? : Yes. GNU General Public License, version 3,  or at
  your option, later.

* Few dependent packaes/libraries? : No. Bluefish has lots of
  dependencies. It's a GUI program useful in many human languages,
  capable of understanding many computer languages. Its realtime
  semi-authoring of code makes it both a huge timesaver and a program
  with serious dependencies. The following is a list of its direct
  dependencies:

===
[slitt@mydesk ~]$ xbps-query -x bluefish
hicolor-icon-theme>=0
desktop-file-utils>=0
xmlcatmgr>=0
python>=0
glibc>=2.8_1
gtk+3>=3.0.0_1
pango>=1.24.0_1
cairo>=1.8.6_1
gdk-pixbuf>=2.22.0_1
glib>=2.18.0_1
libxml2>=2.7.0_1
enchant>=1.4.2_1
gucharmap>=3.0.0_1
[slitt@mydesk ~]$


Unless you've managed to live without GTk all these years, none of
these direct dependencies look particularly harmful to me. As far as I
can tell, no KDE libs, no Gnome libs,  no systemd.

My advice would be to try Bluefish for a couple weeks, then decide
whether to keep it or throw it away and uninstall all auto-installed
packages no longer necessary.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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[DNG] Documentation format philosophies

[jack da]

Steve Litt:  these days I write all my personal documents with Leafpad,
which adds word-wrap capability to what can be achieved with plain text
editors ex, nano, etc.

I discovered that I cannot access the raw MarkDown text of the original
Alternative Init .. document [copy+paste from the talk.devuan.org web site
strips the markup directives].  Just as well I will write the new paper
from scratch.

I was once fluent in HTML, and XHTML seems to just to be a strict version
thereof.  We use LaTEX in technical documents, and I can quickly become
fluent in any sensible markup language [including MarkDown].

The question to ask is:  are the documentation tools widely available;  are
they open source;  can they be built without many dependent
packages/libraries?

jacksprat [or "jack da" for some reason]
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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 10:02:28AM +0100, J. Fahrner wrote:
> Hi,
> the Devuan repository is missing the latest Thunderbird language packs.
> Debian has version 52:
> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/thunderbird-l10n-de
> but Devuan still has version 45.
> 

Just to clarify and to avoid further future confusion, the webpage at
packages.debian.org that you pointed us to clearly shows "[security]"
close to the package name, which means that the package is available
as a security update.

This means that, in order to have it in jessie, you must include the
jessie-security repo in your sources.list. 

HTH

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 10:02:28AM +0100, J. Fahrner wrote:
> Hi,
> the Devuan repository is missing the latest Thunderbird language packs.
> Debian has version 52:
> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/thunderbird-l10n-de
> but Devuan still has version 45.
> 

Again, if you are talking of ascii, the packages are already there:

apt-cache policy thunderbird-l10n-de
thunderbird-l10n-de:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 1:52.4.0-1~deb9u1
Version table:
1:52.4.0-1~deb9u1 500
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main i386 Packages
1:52.3.0-4~deb9u1 500
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main i386 Packages


If you are talking of jessie, the packages for version 52 are
available in jessie-security:

apt-cache policy thunderbird-l10n-de
thunderbird-l10n-de:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 1:52.3.0-4~deb8u2
Version table:
1:52.3.0-4~deb8u2 0
500 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security/main i386 Packages
1:45.8.0-3~deb8u1 0
500 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie/main i386 Packages

HTH

KatolaZ

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[DNG] Thunderbird language packs outdated

[J. Fahrner]

Hi,
the Devuan repository is missing the latest Thunderbird language packs.
Debian has version 52:
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/thunderbird-l10n-de
but Devuan still has version 45.

Jochen


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Re: [DNG] *ERROR* radeon kernel modesetting for R600 or later requires firmware-linux-nonfree.

[Adam Borowski]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 07:51:39AM +0100, Harald Arnesen wrote:
> taii...@gmx.com [2017-11-11 04:44]:
> > On 11/10/2017 06:21 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> 
> >> Then replacing your video card might be the only option.
> 
> > Replace with what? I bought this one as wikipedia says there is a free 
> > firmware option for it "radeon" - to me that means no blobs required but 
> > I guess "they" changed the definition.
> 
> Does it really make the card more "free" if the binary blob is built-in
> instead of being loaded at runtime?

Somehow, RMS believes so.

The only argument against loadable blobs I've heard is that the manufacturer
can replace it with something more evil.  But that's nonsense as you can
keep an older version.  And in most cases, a new version fixes bugs, often
crippling ones.


Meow!
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Re: [DNG] Procmail mutterings [Was: Re: Different philosophies

[Adam Borowski]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 03:54:41PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 10.11.17 05:50, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > A quick check shows Wikipedia asserting the same:
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procmail
> 
> Hmmm ... curiously confused wording puts it in the past tense, but in
> the next sentence admits "remains in wide use as its capabilities are
> better than its alternatives."

Uhm, check file's history.

It'd be nice if someone reworded this into a more homogenous prose.

Remember, everyone can edit: MikeeUSA, Lennart, The Donald, even you.

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⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ 1920 nr.11 poz.61): Art.2: An official, guilty of accepting a gift
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ or another material benefit, or a promise thereof, [in matters
⠈⠳⣄ relevant to duties], shall be punished by death by shooting.
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