Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
Hi, On 23/11/19 4:38 am, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 03:17:58 +1100, Andrew wrote in message > : > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> Jo. >> >> On 23/11/19 12:26 am, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: >>> In the worst case we would not be able to rely on MX Linux? >> >> I think not. >> >> MX is not exactly against systemd, they use it still, but not as the >> init system. And MX is reliant upon Debian anyway so sad that >> Debian is being destroyed by systemd. I don't know what the answer >> is, but it would have been best if the original TC chose against >> systemd, but that ship has sailed and the damage is well and truly >> done and it's only getting worse. >> >> I prefer Devuan over MX, but at this time I am using MX on a machine >> as an interim until my machine is properly supported by Devuan (if >> that ever happens properly). > > ..what's missing? Okay, first off, I didn't see your email in the list yet, but it is addressed to the list; so I'll reply with list inclusion... I have tried ASCII 2.0 -- but it looks like there is a new 2.1 version just about to be announced? My machine is a NUC8i7HVK with the following hardware details: # inxi -F -z --no-host -y 80 System: Kernel: 4.19.0-5-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 Distro: MX-18.3_x64 Continuum May 26 2019 Machine: Type: Desktop System: Intel product: NUC8i7HVK v: J71485-503 serial: Mobo: Intel model: NUC8i7HVB v: J68196-503 serial: UEFI: Intel v: HNKBLi70.86A.0058.2019.0705.1646 date: 07/05/2019 CPU: Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i7-8809G bits: 64 type: MT MCP L2 cache: 8192 KiB Speed: 800 MHz min/max: 800/4200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 800 2: 800 3: 800 4: 801 5: 801 6: 800 7: 800 8: 800 Graphics: Device-1: Intel driver: i915 v: kernel Device-2: AMD driver: amdgpu v: kernel Display: server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: amdgpu,ati,modesetting unloaded: fbdev,radeon,vesa resolution: 3840x2160~60Hz, 2560x1440~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: AMD VEGAM (DRM 3.27.0 4.19.0-5-amd64 LLVM 7.0.0) v: 4.5 Mesa 18.2.6 Audio: Device-1: Intel driver: snd_hda_intel Device-2: AMD driver: snd_hda_intel Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-5-amd64 Network: Device-1: Intel Ethernet I219-LM driver: e1000e IF: eth1 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: Device-2: Intel I210 Gigabit Network driver: igb IF: eth0 state: down mac: Drives: Local Storage: total: 1.36 TiB used: 74.17 GiB (5.3%) ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB size: 931.51 GiB ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB size: 931.51 GiB ID-3: /dev/sda type: USB vendor: Samsung model: Portable SSD T5 size: 465.76 GiB Partition: ID-1: / size: 118.75 GiB used: 74.09 GiB (62.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/dm-0 ID-2: /boot size: 487.9 MiB used: 85.7 MiB (17.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2 Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 49.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 37 C Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A Info: Processes: 254 Uptime: 53m Memory: 31.34 GiB used: 3.59 GiB (11.5%) Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.36 Installing with ASCII 2.0 wouldn't boot properly to the XFCE desktop and I wasn't interested in changing kernels or doing anything else to make it work out of the box, including trying to work out why XFCE was a problem with Devuan ASCII. Maybe I should try ASCII 2.1 -- but I was expecting Beowulf to be here "any time soon" ... for a lon while now. The MX installer doesn't support installation installation on RAID1 mdadm devices! I prefer to use RAID1 for everything, then LUKS on all but the /boot partition with LVM2 -- that sort of setup isn't possible with the MX installer. But XFCE works perfectly out of the box with MX, so I have something to work with in the meantime. Kind Regards AndrewM ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf: DBus service error
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:17:53AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote: > I get a DBus error every five seconds, probably going back to > when I upgraded Ascii to Beoulf. > > Here is the error in syslog: > > Nov 22 06:42:04 engels brltty[724]: DBus error: send message: > org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was > not provided by any .service file apt-get purge brltty should solve this for you, assuming you don't need braille output on your system of course. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] INJ - Init Freedom inJector (was: cannot exist without the help of Debian)
il devuanizzato spiralofhope il 22-11-19
20:25:03 ha scritto:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 18:31:25 +0100
viverna wrote:
I propose this: a script called INJ - Init Freedom inJector
I wrote this summer in this list about a possibility of inject init
run scripts (for example runit) in all Devuan packages automatically.
I'm writing a simple script that inject init diversity in a single
package.
...
I would like to release the script in the next days with AGPL3 but
tell me.
Do you mean AGPL3 as in the GNU Affero General Public License?
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html
If so, please don't use the language "AGPL3 or later" since the "or
later" could be a sabotaged license in the future.
Yes, GNU Affero General Public License 3.0 (no later).
But i'm willing to choose other license if change is helpful to save
Devuan.
--
_
< Viverna >
-
\^/^
\ / \ // \
\ |\___/| / \// .\
\ /0 0 \__ /// | \ \ **
/ / \/_/// | \ \ \ |
@_^_@`/ \/_ //| \ \ \/\ \
//_^_/ \/_ // |\\ \ \
( //) |\/// | \ \ | |
( / /) | // | \ _\ | /
( // /) | ; -.|_ _\.-~ / /
(( / / )) |_ *-.|.-~-. .~~
(( // / ))\ / ~-. _ .-~ /
(( /// )) `. }{ /
(( / )) .~-.\\-` .~
///...<\ _ -~
///-._ _ _ _ _ _ _{^ - - - - ~
___
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Re: [DNG] INJ - Init Freedom inJector (was: cannot exist without the help of Debian)
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 18:31:25 +0100 viverna wrote: > I propose this: a script called INJ - Init Freedom inJector > > I wrote this summer in this list about a possibility of inject init > run scripts (for example runit) in all Devuan packages automatically. > > I'm writing a simple script that inject init diversity in a single > package. > ... > I would like to release the script in the next days with AGPL3 but > tell me. Do you mean AGPL3 as in the GNU Affero General Public License? https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html If so, please don't use the language "AGPL3 or later" since the "or later" could be a sabotaged license in the future. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 03:17:58 +1100, Andrew wrote in message : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Jo. > > On 23/11/19 12:26 am, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: > > In the worst case we would not be able to rely on MX Linux? > > I think not. > > MX is not exactly against systemd, they use it still, but not as the > init system. And MX is reliant upon Debian anyway so sad that > Debian is being destroyed by systemd. I don't know what the answer > is, but it would have been best if the original TC chose against > systemd, but that ship has sailed and the damage is well and truly > done and it's only getting worse. > > I prefer Devuan over MX, but at this time I am using MX on a machine > as an interim until my machine is properly supported by Devuan (if > that ever happens properly). ..what's missing? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
Is there any way to give our support to this proposal? Only Debian-accepted developers (cf. https://www.debian.org/devel/join/), subsequently called "Debian Developer", or "DD", have a right to vote (cf. https://www.debian.org/vote/howto_follow). I would also be eager to help Debian (& Devuan too as a consequence, from Denis' own words) not being steered in another wall, but I am no DD. Bernard Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
il devuanizzato Denis Roio il 22-11-19 10:55:46 ha scritto:
Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian.
If Debian drops the support for any other init system but systemd, I
believe we won't be able to keep up with the legwork needed to support
all other init systems. I say this because we do not have a comparable
amount of people and resources to face the huge amount of work Debian
will cease to do. Of course quality matters, but not that far.
No, we will not allow it!
I propose this: a script called INJ - Init Freedom inJector
I wrote this summer in this list about a possibility of inject init run
scripts (for example runit) in all Devuan packages automatically.
I'm writing a simple script that inject init diversity in a single
package.
Workflow I imagined it like this:
- Init script experts write run scripts for all daemon based on rules
specified below (also sysvinit)
- Script read a package one by one:
- Open package in tmp dir
- For all init system included in Devuan:
- If exists run script for package
- Insert run script
- Edit if requested postinst and prerm script
- Create package from tmp dir
- New package created (automatically)
Run script resides in /var/local/INITSYSTEM/ and are copied in the
package.
Script I wrote support epoch and runit. Other init can be supported if
implemented.
Config file for epoch are in
/var/local/epoch/package_name_all_daemon.conf
For example openssh-server.conf
ObjectID=sshd
ObjectDescription=SSHD
ObjectStartCommand=mkdir -p /run/sshd && /usr/sbin/sshd
ObjectStopCommand=PIDFILE /run/sshd.pid
ObjectStartPriority=Start_Network_Daemon_H
ObjectStopPriority=Stop_Daemon_H
ObjectEnabled=true
ObjectOptions=SERVICE AUTORESTART
ObjectRunlevels=boot core net
Script file for runit are in /var/local/runit/package/
For daemon:
/var/local/runit/package/daemon/run
For example /var/local/runit/openssh-server/sshd/run
#!/bin/sh
exec 2>&1
sv start rsyslogd || exit 1
mkdir -p /run/sshd
exec /usr/sbin/sshd -D
System one time tasks (inject in /etc/runit/{1,2,3}):
/var/local/runit/package/dir/{1,2,3}
If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass,
Devuan will die.
No, inject treatment scripts in all systemd-unit-file only infected
packages automatically.
Hard work is ONLY create script for all init systems supported (more
easy if a small committee of experts write it).
I would like to release the script in the next days with AGPL3 but tell
me.
We are at war. Let's defend ourselves or die fighting.
--
_
< Viverna >
-
\^/^
\ / \ // \
\ |\___/| / \// .\
\ /0 0 \__ /// | \ \ **
/ / \/_/// | \ \ \ |
@_^_@`/ \/_ //| \ \ \/\ \
//_^_/ \/_ // |\\ \ \
( //) |\/// | \ \ | |
( / /) | // | \ _\ | /
( // /) | ; -.|_ _\.-~ / /
(( / / )) |_ *-.|.-~-. .~~
(( // / ))\ / ~-. _ .-~ /
(( /// )) `. }{ /
(( / )) .~-.\\-` .~
///...<\ _ -~
///-._ _ _ _ _ _ _{^ - - - - ~
___
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Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jo. On 23/11/19 12:26 am, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: > In the worst case we would not be able to rely on MX Linux? I think not. MX is not exactly against systemd, they use it still, but not as the init system. And MX is reliant upon Debian anyway so sad that Debian is being destroyed by systemd. I don't know what the answer is, but it would have been best if the original TC chose against systemd, but that ship has sailed and the damage is well and truly done and it's only getting worse. I prefer Devuan over MX, but at this time I am using MX on a machine as an interim until my machine is properly supported by Devuan (if that ever happens properly). Cheers A. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXdgKJwAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +7BOAQCgJVQmiK1rW+U/6nwP4x1JWg/QtF8SqonJR1tjcQu2PQEA2N/kmJWcCvpF MBl8KkFW4zDtjTM6E8B5+gKUHofU8qw= =QO7d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: > Now please let this success be an account of how important is Init > Freedom for the large amount of Debian users out there. > > Today I write you because there is a reason to be worried that many > Debian users will be betrayed once more by its leadership. > > And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian > Jackson and urge the elite who has the privilege to steer the future > of Debian to pay good attention to this choice, considering Ian's > competent and well informed formulation. > > At last, please, do not consider Devuan as an alternative solution > which will survive any outcome of this vote. > > Because I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help. > > Devuan is much, much smaller than Debian in resources, people and > infrastructure, and despite our efforts were useful to both, the > Debian project has done very little to help us so far. > > If Debian drops the support for any other init system but systemd, I > believe we won't be able to keep up with the legwork needed to support > all other init systems. I say this because we do not have a comparable > amount of people and resources to face the huge amount of work Debian > will cease to do. Of course quality matters, but not that far. > > If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass, > Devuan will die. ..https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/msg00028.html proposes a way forward: "maintain all init-scripts in a single package that gets pulled in with [alternate init systems such as e.g.] sysvinit. Whoever wants to use and maintain it is free to do so. Initscript could actually be installed using dpkg triggers or whatever else works." ..if we do it, both for us _and_ them, we control it. ;o) ..and, we have https://devuan.org/get-devuan etc in place: ;o) "(And at some time we can still move that package into an external repository)." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:29:36 +0100, Irrwahn wrote in message <00acc993-3243-4ccc-aa86-0f5f93aaf...@freenet.de>: > Arnt Karlsen wrote on 22.11.19 13:36: > > On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message > > <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: > [...] > >> And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian > >> Jackson > > > > ..a direct link to Ian's vote proposition nr.4 and a direct link > > on where to vote for that, would be helpful, there are 245 messages > > "in the air" at https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ now. > > All proposals can be found here: > https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 > > Ian Jackson's proposal is listed as "Proposal D". > > HTH, regards > Urban > ..it did, thanks, Urban. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 13:36:48 +0100 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message > <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: > > > > > And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian > > Jackson > > ..a direct link to Ian's vote proposition nr.4 and a direct link > on where to vote for that, would be helpful, there are 245 messages > "in the air" at https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ now. > I think it may be this but happy to be corrected https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/msg00063.html pgpG281ldNwu3.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
Arnt Karlsen wrote on 22.11.19 13:36: > On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message > <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: [...] >> And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian >> Jackson > > ..a direct link to Ian's vote proposition nr.4 and a direct link > on where to vote for that, would be helpful, there are 245 messages > "in the air" at https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ now. All proposals can be found here: https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 Ian Jackson's proposal is listed as "Proposal D". HTH, regards Urban -- Sapere aude! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
In the worst case we would not be able to rely on MX Linux? Best Regards -- Ismael - Original Message - From: "Denis Roio" To: "DNG" Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 4:55 AM Subject: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Beowulf: DBus service error
I get a DBus error every five seconds, probably going back to when I upgraded Ascii to Beoulf. Here is the error in syslog: Nov 22 06:42:04 engels brltty[724]: DBus error: send message: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service file I do not have Bluetooth installed. I have two wifi dongles and one wireless mouse dongles installed. In searching around I found that the error can arise with PulseAudio modules calling bluetooth. I have apulse installed rather than PulseAudio, but in looking into /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disaable-autospawn.conf I find this: # On linux systems, disable autospawn by default # If you are not using systemd, comment out this line autospawn=no The first line I understand, for autospawn is disabled, but I do not understand the second line. If I comment the line, am I not thereby enabling autospawn? I'm not sure whether to comment the line. I have no reason to think that apulse is asking DBus to connect to a Bluetooth device. How do I go about finding out what process is calling on DBus? Haines Brown ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
Is there any way to give our support to this proposal? Best Regards -- Ismael - Original Message - From: "Arnt Karlsen" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: dear readers, I write this email to comment on the current Init System GR vote in Debian, see https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ I'll be brief and express my personal opinion on the matter. Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian. When me and Franco Lanza started this project in 2014 it was because of the most painful Init System GR in Debian. Back then, we chose Ian Jackson as the best Debian developer to represent the interest of Debian's users and to defend the true mission of the Debian project as a universal operating system. While supporting Ian's proposal we also promised to the world that, if that wouldn't be the route taken by Debian, we would have not gone gently into that good night. So we did, and Devuan was born. Together with a small group of volunteers we dedicated huge amounts of time and resources to Devuan, putting our skills at the service of a very large community of people in need of Init Freedom; a whole chapter of my doctoral thesis is dedicated to this project https://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/handle/10026.1/11101 and overall our history is rather well explained here https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/ and our community well represented by the first Devuan conference we organised in Amsterdam https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ For many of us Devuan has been a source of pride, joy and professional relief. It brought together some of the best people, developers and system administrators I could ever hope to meet in my life. We also managed to contribute back solutions and software useful to the Debian project. Now please let this success be an account of how important is Init Freedom for the large amount of Debian users out there. Today I write you because there is a reason to be worried that many Debian users will be betrayed once more by its leadership. And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian Jackson ..a direct link to Ian's vote proposition nr.4 and a direct link on where to vote for that, would be helpful, there are 245 messages "in the air" at https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ now. and urge the elite who has the privilege to steer the future of Debian to pay good attention to this choice, considering Ian's competent and well informed formulation. At last, please, do not consider Devuan as an alternative solution which will survive any outcome of this vote. Because I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help. Devuan is much, much smaller than Debian in resources, people and infrastructure, and despite our efforts were useful to both, the Debian project has done very little to help us so far. If Debian drops the support for any other init system but systemd, I believe we won't be able to keep up with the legwork needed to support all other init systems. I say this because we do not have a comparable amount of people and resources to face the huge amount of work Debian will cease to do. Of course quality matters, but not that far. If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass, Devuan will die. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: > dear readers, > > I write this email to comment on the current Init System GR vote in > Debian, see https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ > > I'll be brief and express my personal opinion on the matter. > > Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian. > > When me and Franco Lanza started this project in 2014 it was because > of the most painful Init System GR in Debian. Back then, we chose Ian > Jackson as the best Debian developer to represent the interest of > Debian's users and to defend the true mission of the Debian project as > a universal operating system. While supporting Ian's proposal we also > promised to the world that, if that wouldn't be the route taken by > Debian, we would have not gone gently into that good night. > > So we did, and Devuan was born. > > Together with a small group of volunteers we dedicated huge amounts of > time and resources to Devuan, putting our skills at the service of a > very large community of people in need of Init Freedom; a whole > chapter of my doctoral thesis is dedicated to this project > https://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/handle/10026.1/11101 and overall our > history is rather well explained here > https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/ and our community well represented > by the first Devuan conference we organised in Amsterdam > https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ > > For many of us Devuan has been a source of pride, joy and professional > relief. It brought together some of the best people, developers and > system administrators I could ever hope to meet in my life. We also > managed to contribute back solutions and software useful to the Debian > project. > > Now please let this success be an account of how important is Init > Freedom for the large amount of Debian users out there. > > Today I write you because there is a reason to be worried that many > Debian users will be betrayed once more by its leadership. > > And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian > Jackson ..a direct link to Ian's vote proposition nr.4 and a direct link on where to vote for that, would be helpful, there are 245 messages "in the air" at https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ now. > and urge the elite who has the privilege to steer the future > of Debian to pay good attention to this choice, considering Ian's > competent and well informed formulation. > > At last, please, do not consider Devuan as an alternative solution > which will survive any outcome of this vote. > > Because I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help. > > Devuan is much, much smaller than Debian in resources, people and > infrastructure, and despite our efforts were useful to both, the > Debian project has done very little to help us so far. > > If Debian drops the support for any other init system but systemd, I > believe we won't be able to keep up with the legwork needed to support > all other init systems. I say this because we do not have a comparable > amount of people and resources to face the huge amount of work Debian > will cease to do. Of course quality matters, but not that far. > > If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass, > Devuan will die. > > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
dear readers, I write this email to comment on the current Init System GR vote in Debian, see https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ I'll be brief and express my personal opinion on the matter. Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian. When me and Franco Lanza started this project in 2014 it was because of the most painful Init System GR in Debian. Back then, we chose Ian Jackson as the best Debian developer to represent the interest of Debian's users and to defend the true mission of the Debian project as a universal operating system. While supporting Ian's proposal we also promised to the world that, if that wouldn't be the route taken by Debian, we would have not gone gently into that good night. So we did, and Devuan was born. Together with a small group of volunteers we dedicated huge amounts of time and resources to Devuan, putting our skills at the service of a very large community of people in need of Init Freedom; a whole chapter of my doctoral thesis is dedicated to this project https://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/handle/10026.1/11101 and overall our history is rather well explained here https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/ and our community well represented by the first Devuan conference we organised in Amsterdam https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ For many of us Devuan has been a source of pride, joy and professional relief. It brought together some of the best people, developers and system administrators I could ever hope to meet in my life. We also managed to contribute back solutions and software useful to the Debian project. Now please let this success be an account of how important is Init Freedom for the large amount of Debian users out there. Today I write you because there is a reason to be worried that many Debian users will be betrayed once more by its leadership. And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian Jackson and urge the elite who has the privilege to steer the future of Debian to pay good attention to this choice, considering Ian's competent and well informed formulation. At last, please, do not consider Devuan as an alternative solution which will survive any outcome of this vote. Because I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help. Devuan is much, much smaller than Debian in resources, people and infrastructure, and despite our efforts were useful to both, the Debian project has done very little to help us so far. If Debian drops the support for any other init system but systemd, I believe we won't be able to keep up with the legwork needed to support all other init systems. I say this because we do not have a comparable amount of people and resources to face the huge amount of work Debian will cease to do. Of course quality matters, but not that far. If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass, Devuan will die. -- Denis "Jaromil" Roio https://Dyne.org think &do tank Ph.D, CTO & co-foundersoftware to empower communities ✉ Haparandadam 7-A1, 1013AK Amsterdam, The Netherlands 𝄞 crypto κρυπτο крипто गुप्त् 加密 האנוסים المشفره ⚷ 6113D89C A825C5CE DD02C872 73B35DA5 4ACB7D10 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
