Re: [DNG] (forw) Re: Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[freemedia via Dng]

Steve Litt said:
  

> 
> An init system is not an isolated component, but is deeply integrated
> in the core layer of the system and affects many packages.
> 

> Ummm, the preceding is completely false with any init except systemd.
> Runit absolutely, completely standalone. No software checks for runit
> or uses special facilities of runit.
> Later on this same “choice1” utters the following frightening words:


i felt exactly the same way when i read it a few days ago, what that "choice" 
ultimately allows people to do is vote a completely fictional delusion into an 
official policy and indisputable premise for all of debians future activity.

that is something that monopolistic corporations are known to do-- dispute 
reality itself via monopoly power. there are realfacts, and there are goodfacts.

this gr lets you vote for goodfacts. theyre only good for a takeover, but thats 
the only good that counts anymore.

the free software movement is the people.

the corporations are not the people. if we let the corporations decide what 
reality is, free software is over. and there are plenty of places that it is 
running away, hiding, or simply being hidden from the public "on their behalf" 
as this policy would like to do.

sam hartman is a traitor and a scumbag, and should be obligated to wear a suit 
and tie for every moment of the rest of his life.

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] (forw) Re: Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Larry De Coste via Dng]

-Original Message-
From: Steve Litt 
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Sent: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] (forw) Re: Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since 
systemd

And people wonder why I despise the Debian project.
===

 Not me.

Don't forget Obarun & S6.

The latest JWM iso installs easily in a HD partition. Then w/ pacman you've 
access to all of Arch Linux as well.

Larry De Coste
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:18:33 +0100
Didier Kryn  wrote:

> Le 14/12/2019 à 11:55, Arnt Karlsen a écrit :
> >> The problem is: where do you run,
> >> when there's no place to hide (in linux world)?  
> > ..we drop Debian as the un-viable upstream it has become, and
> > move on with Slackware and Gentoo etc and the *BSD unices.  
> 
>      Void, Adélie ...


Not Gentoo --- they're slowly sliding toward systemd.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] (forw) Re: Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:19:08 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:


> Why suggest secondary sources?
> 
> https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002

I just read the preceding link and noticed the following sentence in
their "choice 1":


An init system is not an isolated component, but is deeply integrated
in the core layer of the system and affects many packages.


Ummm, the preceding is completely false with any init except systemd.
Runit absolutely, completely standalone. No software checks for runit
or uses special facilities of runit.

Later on this same "choice1" utters the following frightening words:


Integrating systemd more deeply into Debian will lead to a more
integrated and tested system, improve standardization of Linux systems,
and bring many new technologies to our users. Packages can rely upon,
and are encouraged to make full use of, functionality provided by
systemd.


In other words: "Let's completely disenfranchise those choosing
alternate init systems."

And people wonder why I despise the Debian project.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:10:56 +0100
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:

> It's just politics. Or religion. The problem is: where do you run,
> when there's no place to hide (in linux world)?

Devuan, *BSD, Funtoo, any distro using musl. Probably several others.

As I remember, it was always the plan for Devuan to become a distro in
its own right.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] Fw: Re: What about the boost c++ libraries?

[s]

>Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:56:13 +0100
>From: Aitor 
>
> Only *boost-iostream* and *boost-filesystem* are required in 
> simple-netaid so far, even though I could do the same job using only 
> the stardard c++11, of course.
> I say this because once somebody said (here, in the mailing list) "no 
> more wraps, please", but maybe referring to dbus or something similar [*].
> What do you think of?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aitor.
>
> [*] git-buildpackage is a wrap for dpkg-buildpackage and it's cool.
>
>I must add that I disagree with the overuse of smart pointers and some 
>design patterns.
>I was rather surprised to see that all the gtkmm forms of 
>mysql-workbench are singleton!
>

My Personal Opinion is that libboost, is something very viral in nature..
And libboost itself, is a monster in size..
I would pay attention, to dependencies :)

--
Best Regards, 
tux 
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] (forw) Re: Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Rick Moen]

Quoting John Hughes :

> Why suggest secondary sources?

Editor Jon Corbet and the other main authors at LWN.net are excellent at
giving reasonable interpretation and context for stories about Linux and 
open source.  On a good day, many of the reader comments are helpful,
too.

 
> Britton Kerin is misinterpreting one persons vote as the result.

Yes, clearly.  Case in point about why I disregard the debian-user
mailing list as a source of meaningful information.

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] (forw) Re: Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Rick Moen]

Forwarding back on-list.

- Forwarded message from John Hughes  -

Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 11:10:52 +0100
From: John Hughes 
To: Rick Moen 
Subject: Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

On 14/12/2019 04:30, Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> My advice:  Wait for the LWN.net coverage in this coming week's weekly
> issue.  About a week ago, LWN had this initial coverage (subscriber link
> so people here can see, without paying for subscription):
> https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/806332/71a8e11132c02b54/

Why suggest secondary sources?

https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002


 Time Line

Proposal and amendment  2019-11-16  
Discussion Period:  2019-11-22  
Voting Period:  Saturday 2019-12-07 00:00:00 UTC*Friday 2019-12-27
23:59:59 UTC*

The Project Leader has varied discussion period so that the minimum
discussion period ends on November 30. [mail
]



Britton Kerin is misinterpreting one persons vote as the result.


- End forwarded message -
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Migrating from Buster to Beowulf - feedback needed

[wirelessduck--- via Dng]

> On 15 Dec 2019, at 00:51, Bernard Rosset via Dng  wrote:
> 
> Having migrated from buster to beowulf, using wicd as the network manager, 
> how does one rename network interfaces from "persistent names" to old, 
> numbered, ones?

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/321755/eth0-no-longer-claiming-address-on-debian-jessie

Add net.ifnames=0 to grub command line.

Optionally add biosdevname=0 if you have biosdevname installed.

—Tom___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Bernard Rosset via Dng]

More talk is the last thing they want.


Debating is hard, and requires many human qualities, like empathy, 
selflessness, lust for common good, long-term intuition & thinking, 
"self-rigorousness".
It becomes increasingly & especially difficult when other people do not 
share your views.


It is so much simpler to enforce a single side (the one from the people 
having the influence or the capability to enforce decisions) and ignore 
the rest.


"Modern" (or another cycle?) way of making decisions (aka pseudo-thinking).
"Modern" (or another cycle?) days.

Bernard Rosset
https://rosset.net/
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Migrating from Buster to Beowulf - feedback needed

[Bernard Rosset via Dng]

Having migrated from buster to beowulf, using wicd as the network 
manager, how does one rename network interfaces from "persistent names" 
to old, numbered, ones?


Bernard Rosset
https://rosset.net/
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[fsmithred via Dng]

On 12/13/19 8:55 PM, Steve Litt wrote:


=

Begin forwarded message:





- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 7b77e0f2-4ff9-4adb-85e4-af249191f27a
[ 3 ] Choice 1: F: Focus on systemd
[ 1 ] Choice 2: B: Systemd but we support exploring alternatives
[   ] Choice 3: A: Support for multiple init systems is Important
[   ] Choice 4: D: Support non-systemd systems, without blocking progress
[ 2 ] Choice 5: H: Support portability, without blocking progress
[   ] Choice 6: E: Support for multiple init systems is Required
[   ] Choice 7: G: Support portability and multiple implementations
[ 4 ] Choice 8: Further Discussion
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  




This looks like one person's ballot. Their first two choices are to 
support other init systems (B and H). More talk is the last thing they want.


fsmithred

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] What about the boost c++ libraries?

[Aitor]

Hi again,

On 14/12/19 12:41, Aitor wrote:


Hi all,

Some months ago i rewrote the backend of simple-netaid, and now i'm 
spending good time doing the same with the frontend.
Reading documents, i found some useful features in the boost c++  
libraries:


https://www.boost.org/

Only *boost-iostream* and *boost-filesystem* are required in 
simple-netaid so far, even though I could do the same job using only 
the stardard c++11, of course.
I say this because once somebody said (here, in the mailing list) "no 
more wraps, please", but maybe referring to dbus or something similar [*].

What do you think of?

Cheers,

Aitor.

[*] git-buildpackage is a wrap for dpkg-buildpackage and it's cool.

I must add that I disagree with the overuse of smart pointers and some 
design patterns.
I was rather surprised to see that all the gtkmm forms of 
mysql-workbench are singleton!


Aitor.



___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] What about the boost c++ libraries?

[Aitor]

Hi all,

Some months ago i rewrote the backend of simple-netaid, and now i'm 
spending good time doing the same with the frontend.
Reading documents, i found some useful features in the boost c++  
libraries:


https://www.boost.org/

Only *boost-iostream* and *boost-filesystem* are required in 
simple-netaid so far, even though I could do the same job using only the 
stardard c++11, of course.
I say this because once somebody said (here, in the mailing list) "no 
more wraps, please", but maybe referring to dbus or something similar [*].

What do you think of?

Cheers,

Aitor.

[*] git-buildpackage is a wrap for dpkg-buildpackage and it's cool.



___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/12/2019 à 11:55, Arnt Karlsen a écrit :

The problem is: where do you run,
when there's no place to hide (in linux world)?

..we drop Debian as the un-viable upstream it has become, and
move on with Slackware and Gentoo etc and the *BSD unices.


    Void, Adélie ...


___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:10:56 +0100, Dr. wrote in message 
<201912141010.56327.dr.kl...@gmx.at>:

> Anno domini 2019 Fri, 13 Dec 23:49:42 -0600
>  goli...@devuan.org scripsit:
> > On 2019-12-13 23:31, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:  
> > > 
> > > I'm really disgusted the way that Debian is going.  What happened
> > > to the
> > > "universal Linux" 
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > A.
> > >   
> > 
> > And what happened to the priorities of the "Debian Social
> > Contract"? Here is a pertinent excerpt:
> > 
> > "Our priorities are our users and free software
> > 
> > We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software 
> > community. We will place their interests first in our priorities.
> > We will support the needs of our users for operation in many
> > different kinds of computing environments."
> > 
> > https://www.debian.org/social_contract
> > 
> > Makes what's going on all the more laughable.  
> 
> It's just politics. Or religion.

...juuust like the 1930-ies.  
Hitler's purpose: gas the Jews and take "Aryan" Lebensraum from Mankind.
9/11's purpose: cover up Enron by destroying all Enron evidence in 
SEC's WTC7 office, blame it on "Islamists" and drone strike them.
Systemd's purpose: take down Debian by to save Red Hat's biz. 
Trump's purpose: take down the US to save his own old Soviet agent ass.
GOP's purpose: help Trump take down the US to save their own Putinist
"lobbyist" butts.

> The problem is: where do you run,
> when there's no place to hide (in linux world)?

..we drop Debian as the un-viable upstream it has become, and 
move on with Slackware and Gentoo etc and the *BSD unices.


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2019 Fri, 13 Dec 23:49:42 -0600
 goli...@devuan.org scripsit:
> On 2019-12-13 23:31, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> > 
> > I'm really disgusted the way that Debian is going.  What happened to 
> > the
> > "universal Linux" 
> > 
> > Cheers
> > A.
> > 
> 
> And what happened to the priorities of the "Debian Social Contract"?  
> Here is a pertinent excerpt:
> 
> "Our priorities are our users and free software
> 
> We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software 
> community. We will place their interests first in our priorities. We 
> will support the needs of our users for operation in many different 
> kinds of computing environments."
> 
> https://www.debian.org/social_contract
> 
> Makes what's going on all the more laughable.

It's just politics. Or religion. The problem is: where do you run, when there's 
no place to hide (in linux world)?

> 
> golinux
> 
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> 



-- 
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with 
the NSA, CIA ...
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng