Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Ralph Ronnquist via Dng]

Steve Litt wrote on 8/4/20 3:06 am:
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:40:50 +1000
> Ralph Ronnquist via Dng  wrote:
> 
> 
>> I've done two separate jitsi installations on tiny qemu hosts
>> (beowulf), single-cpu with 1G RAM (and 4G swap). An ad hoc test
>> indicated a load increase of about 0.2 per connections, and it worked
>> on the test with 8 connections (5 from myself, and 3 from someone
>> else).
> 
> Hi Ralph,
> 
> Could you please post the shellscript with which you spin up these qemu
> hosts? I've never been successful building a qemu host with full
> featured networking.

Ah, those hosts I rent from Vultr.com at $5.5/m, and admittedly I'm only
guessing they are qemu hosts from some droppings in dmesg. However, I think
I've learnt enough of qemu networking to call it easy, so let me digress this
thread momentarily about this.

The options are many and it depends on your taste. Basically, you'll need to
add two command line "-net" arguments": one for selecting network device in the
guest, and one for identifying the connection facility on the host. Perhaps
like so:
-net nic,macaddr=04:07:a6:c8:34:e2 -net vde,sock=/tmp/vde.ctl

The first says to use the default net device in the guest with the specified
MAC address. The second says to use "vde" networking via the /tmp/vde.ctl
socket directory. vde is installed as "vde2", and I do it this way because it
lets me set up the host side once for any number of concurrent qemu guests.

So for completeness: I would have set up the host with something like the
following:
# ip tuntap add tap0 mode tap user ralph
# ifconfig tap0 10.10.10.1/24 up
# sysctl net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
# iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 10.10.10.0/24 -j MASQUERADE
# dnsmasq -i tap0 -a 10.10.10.1 -I wlan0 -I eth0 -K -D -N -b \
  --dhcp-sequential-ip --dhcp-hostsfile=/home/share/dhcphosts \
  -F 10.10.10.2,10.10.10.254,255.255.255.0,10.10.10.255
$ vde_switch -t tap0 -d

That one is a little bit of a mouthful but it's easily scriptable:
1. create a tap owned by "ralph",
2. configure it with IP 10.10.10.1,
3. enable kernel forwarding,
4. add NAT masquerading for packets from the tap0 network and
5. set up a DHCP responder and DNS forwarder for that interface taking
static ques from the file /home/share/dhcphosts (with lines like
"04:44:25:2f:17:12,beowulf-i386,10.10.10.2", though fully optional)
6. finally, run the vde networking switch as user ralph

Skip point 5 and use static IP set up in the guest if the host's port 53 is
already taken by some other program; dnsmasq gets unrecoverably sulky if it
can't grab that, but there are also other ways to service DHCP. And if you want
to go ipv6, you'll need different steps 2 and 5, but the rest stays the same.

I set up the host side with tap0 "owned" by "ralph" so I can run vde_switch and
the qemu guests as "ralph" (rather than "root"). The set up survives any number
of qemu up/down, separately or concurrently, and I think of it as the easiest
way. It also seems to perform better even than having a separate tap for each
qemu; at least it did that one time when I tested it.

btw, the MAC address choice has some rules apart from needing to be different
from any other MAC address your networking will get to know of. My rule of
thumb is to start with 04, end with 2, and fill the middle "randomly", but keep
the same MAC address allocated for its individual guest system, which I also
keep documented in /home/share/dhcphosts.

hth

Ralph.



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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 7 Apr 14:11:57 -0500
 Rod Rodolico scripsit:
> yes. There is an icon on the screen (browser based) showing network
> speed and drops. It will automagically change frame rate, though that is
> not seamless. However, there is a menu item that allows you to change
> your image quality from the browser session.
> 
> The 8Mb/s was on my server. I believe my client in most sessions has
> been running a lot less, though I haven't checked that yet. I'm guessing
> around 2Mb/s, but not sure.

Upstream or downstream?

Nik

> 
> Rod
> 
> 
> On 04/07/2020 09:45 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 01:05:10AM -0500, Rod Rodolico wrote:
> >> I just installed a Jitsi instance on one of my old servers last week. My
> >> 15 year old granddaughter did most of the work. We built it as a Xen
> >> virtual with 10G disk, 4G RAM and 4 dedicated cores. We used ASCII as
> >> the Distro.
> >>
> >> Tests so far have been two people (test for more planned for later this
> >> week). With two people in the video conference, we ran about 8Mb/s
> >> pretty steady the whole hour. Processor was about 40% on all four cores
> >> and RAM was pretty much untouched.
> > 
> > Looks a little tight.  My DSL link provides 6 Mbps.  I wonder if it 
> > adjusts the video quality or framerate to match the aailable bandwidth.
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> > ___
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> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> > 
> 



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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Rod Rodolico]

yes. There is an icon on the screen (browser based) showing network
speed and drops. It will automagically change frame rate, though that is
not seamless. However, there is a menu item that allows you to change
your image quality from the browser session.

The 8Mb/s was on my server. I believe my client in most sessions has
been running a lot less, though I haven't checked that yet. I'm guessing
around 2Mb/s, but not sure.

Rod


On 04/07/2020 09:45 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 01:05:10AM -0500, Rod Rodolico wrote:
>> I just installed a Jitsi instance on one of my old servers last week. My
>> 15 year old granddaughter did most of the work. We built it as a Xen
>> virtual with 10G disk, 4G RAM and 4 dedicated cores. We used ASCII as
>> the Distro.
>>
>> Tests so far have been two people (test for more planned for later this
>> week). With two people in the video conference, we ran about 8Mb/s
>> pretty steady the whole hour. Processor was about 40% on all four cores
>> and RAM was pretty much untouched.
> 
> Looks a little tight.  My DSL link provides 6 Mbps.  I wonder if it 
> adjusts the video quality or framerate to match the aailable bandwidth.
> 
> -- hendrik
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-- 
Rod Rodolico
Daily Data, Inc.
POB 140465
Dallas TX 75214-0465 US
http://dailydata.net
214.827.2170
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:40:50 +1000
Ralph Ronnquist via Dng  wrote:


> I've done two separate jitsi installations on tiny qemu hosts
> (beowulf), single-cpu with 1G RAM (and 4G swap). An ad hoc test
> indicated a load increase of about 0.2 per connections, and it worked
> on the test with 8 connections (5 from myself, and 3 from someone
> else).

Hi Ralph,

Could you please post the shellscript with which you spin up these qemu
hosts? I've never been successful building a qemu host with full
featured networking.

Thanks,
 
SteveT

Steve Litt
March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 01:05:10AM -0500, Rod Rodolico wrote:
> I just installed a Jitsi instance on one of my old servers last week. My
> 15 year old granddaughter did most of the work. We built it as a Xen
> virtual with 10G disk, 4G RAM and 4 dedicated cores. We used ASCII as
> the Distro.
> 
> Tests so far have been two people (test for more planned for later this
> week). With two people in the video conference, we ran about 8Mb/s
> pretty steady the whole hour. Processor was about 40% on all four cores
> and RAM was pretty much untouched.

Looks a little tight.  My DSL link provides 6 Mbps.  I wonder if it 
adjusts the video quality or framerate to match the aailable bandwidth.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Ralph Ronnquist via Dng]

Rod Rodolico wrote on 7/4/20 4:05 pm:
> I just installed a Jitsi instance on one of my old servers last week. My
> 15 year old granddaughter did most of the work. We built it as a Xen
> virtual with 10G disk, 4G RAM and 4 dedicated cores. We used ASCII as
> the Distro.
> ...

I've done two separate jitsi installations on tiny qemu hosts (beowulf),
single-cpu with 1G RAM (and 4G swap). An ad hoc test indicated a load increase
of about 0.2 per connections, and it worked on the test with 8 connections (5
from myself, and 3 from someone else).

Of course my chrome client couldn't service more than 5 concurrent connections,
and that took that client machine (8 CPU with 16 G RAM) up to a load of 15, but
the server was happy.

I give a special tick for jitsi that it is without any login, ie "anonymous",
and the server, if you want one, is quite easily installed. I wanted my own
server nearby in Sydney, and in LA for a friend; meet.jit.si is somewhere in EU
I think.

Ralph.



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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 03:17:43PM +0100, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> On 07/04/2020 14:23, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > 
> > Second that. I love qTox, but I need something for a lecture.
> > Jitsi or  https://meet.jit.si/ look like a nice thing -
> > as long as I do not forget to revoke mic+camera permissions
> > after the session :/

On my laptop I can just that turn off power to the mic and camera.

> > 
> > Nik
> 
> OMG how can you agree with Dal and then go on to suggest the use of something 
> cloud based and written in Java ?

Not necessarily cloud-based.  He could run jitsi on his own server.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Didier Kryn]

Le 07/04/2020 à 02:46, Dan Purgert a écrit :

Jitsi would be my initial go-to, as Zoom seems to have proven themselves
less-than-trustworthy in the last couple of weeks.


    In addition, Zoom is the one which depends on ibus.

        Didier


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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[g4sra via Dng]

On 07/04/2020 14:23, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2020 Tue, 7 Apr 13:07:47 +
>  dal scripsit:
>>> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of g4sra via Dng
>>> Sent: den 7 april 2020 14:31
>>
>>> zoom is not an evil company, unlike Google they do not set out to take your 
>>> data, they are just a bit security naive.
>>
>> How can you know/control what they will do with your data?
>> Google is a troubled reference in this very sense, known for touting "not 
>> being evil".
>>
>> To remain on-topic, which is to recommend something good,
>> we really should not suggest trusting one's data to a "security naïve" party
>> (especially when its business is pretty much to act as a man-in-the-middle).
>>
>> /D
> 
> Second that. I love qTox, but I need something for a lecture. Jitsi or  
> https://meet.jit.si/ look like a nice thing - as long as I do not forget to 
> revoke mic+camera permissions after the session :/
> 
> Nik

OMG how can you agree with Dal and then go on to suggest the use of something 
cloud based and written in Java ?

> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 7 Apr 13:07:47 +
 dal scripsit:
> > From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of g4sra via Dng
> > Sent: den 7 april 2020 14:31
> 
> > zoom is not an evil company, unlike Google they do not set out to take your 
> > data, they are just a bit security naive.
> 
> How can you know/control what they will do with your data?
> Google is a troubled reference in this very sense, known for touting "not 
> being evil".
> 
> To remain on-topic, which is to recommend something good,
> we really should not suggest trusting one's data to a "security naïve" party
> (especially when its business is pretty much to act as a man-in-the-middle).
> 
> /D

Second that. I love qTox, but I need something for a lecture. Jitsi or  
https://meet.jit.si/ look like a nice thing - as long as I do not forget to 
revoke mic+camera permissions after the session :/

Nik

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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[dal]

> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of g4sra via Dng
> Sent: den 7 april 2020 14:31

> zoom is not an evil company, unlike Google they do not set out to take your 
> data, they are just a bit security naive.

How can you know/control what they will do with your data?
Google is a troubled reference in this very sense, known for touting "not being 
evil".

To remain on-topic, which is to recommend something good,
we really should not suggest trusting one's data to a "security naïve" party
(especially when its business is pretty much to act as a man-in-the-middle).

/D
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[g4sra via Dng]

On 07/04/2020 09:48, Tomasz Kundera via Dng wrote:
> Zoom has dedicated clients for Debian. It works in ascii at least.

Personal experiences..
zoom became more stable after upgrading from ascii to beowulf.
zoom would\will not launch from firefox, no issues launching from terminal and 
manually entering meeting ID# 

zoom is not an evil company, unlike Google they do not set out to take your 
data, they are just a bit security naive.
Watching with interest as they *appear* to be responding positively to 
professional critisism.
Dropping the Chinese servers and End To End encryption would be a smart move

> 
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:46 AM Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:46:03PM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>> On Apr 04, 2020, Raul Claro wrote:
 Dear Devlers,

 is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with
>> Firefox
 (or Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in contact with. such als
 /https://global.gotomeeting.com/, /work only with Windows or Mac and
 Chrome.

  Are there any Debian/Devuan alternatives to these systems?
>>>
>>> Jitsi would be my initial go-to, as Zoom seems to have proven themselves
>>> less-than-trustworthy in the last couple of weeks.
>>
>> I've been completely unable to get on Zoom from firefox esr.
>> Is it likely to work with Chrome or chromium?  One of my regular
>> meeetings has chosen Zoom, leaving me little choice.
>>
>> Any idea how much computer jitsi needs?  My server is over a decade old.
>> I've been hanging onto it because it's too old to have a management
>> engine.
>>
>> -- hendrik
>>>
>>> There's also, IIRC, "Blue Button" or something to that effect.
>>>
>>> --
>>> |_|O|_|
>>> |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
>>> |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
>>
>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[g4sra via Dng]

On 06/04/2020 23:24, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 05:10:48PM +0100, g4sra via Dng wrote:
>> Only one issue so far, had to manually run 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' after 
>> reboot.
> 
> You might want to add to bug 419, so the devs are aware that more than
> just one person had this issue:

Done

> 
> 
> 
> Greg
> 
> 

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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Dan Purgert]

On Apr 06, 2020, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:46:03PM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Apr 04, 2020, Raul Claro wrote:
> > > Dear Devlers,
> > > 
> > >     is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with Firefox
> > > (or Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in contact with. such als
> > > /https://global.gotomeeting.com/, /work only with Windows or Mac and
> > > Chrome.
> > > 
> > >  Are there any Debian/Devuan alternatives to these systems?
> > 
> > Jitsi would be my initial go-to, as Zoom seems to have proven themselves
> > less-than-trustworthy in the last couple of weeks.
> 
> I've been completely unable to get on Zoom from firefox esr.
> Is it likely to work with Chrome or chromium?  One of my regular 
> meeetings has chosen Zoom, leaving me little choice.

Sorry, I don't happen to use Zoom.  Wife does, but from her tablet.


> 
> Any idea how much computer jitsi needs?  My server is over a decade old.  
> I've been hanging onto it because it's too old to have a management 
> engine.

Offhand, no.  I haven't found any of that in their documentation
(although admittedly my eyes may have just glazed over).  You can, of
course, use their service (http://meet.jit.si) rather than running it
yourself.

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Tomasz Kundera via Dng]

Zoom has dedicated clients for Debian. It works in ascii at least.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:46 AM Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:46:03PM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Apr 04, 2020, Raul Claro wrote:
> > > Dear Devlers,
> > >
> > > is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with
> Firefox
> > > (or Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in contact with. such als
> > > /https://global.gotomeeting.com/, /work only with Windows or Mac and
> > > Chrome.
> > >
> > >  Are there any Debian/Devuan alternatives to these systems?
> >
> > Jitsi would be my initial go-to, as Zoom seems to have proven themselves
> > less-than-trustworthy in the last couple of weeks.
>
> I've been completely unable to get on Zoom from firefox esr.
> Is it likely to work with Chrome or chromium?  One of my regular
> meeetings has chosen Zoom, leaving me little choice.
>
> Any idea how much computer jitsi needs?  My server is over a decade old.
> I've been hanging onto it because it's too old to have a management
> engine.
>
> -- hendrik
> >
> > There's also, IIRC, "Blue Button" or something to that effect.
> >
> > --
> > |_|O|_|
> > |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
> > |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
>
>
>
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-- 
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[dal]

> is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with Firefox (or 
> Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in contact with. such als 
> https://global.gotomeeting.com/,  work only with Windows or Mac and Chrome.

If you have got Devuan, you do not have to resort to browsers for conferencing. 

As for audioconferencing or one-to-one video :

qtox or another tox protocol client of your choice is the right tool.

It is also available on most other platforms, for you contacts which are not on 
*n*x.

/D
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[tom]

On Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:51:37 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> On 2020-04-06 20:46, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:46:03PM -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:
> >> On Apr 04, 2020, Raul Claro wrote:
> >> > Dear Devlers,
> >> >
> >> >     is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference
> >> > with Firefox (or Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in
> >> > contact with. such als /https://global.gotomeeting.com/, /work
> >> > only with Windows or Mac and Chrome.
> >> >
> >> >  Are there any Debian/Devuan alternatives to these systems?
> >> 
> >> Jitsi would be my initial go-to, as Zoom seems to have proven 
> >> themselves
> >> less-than-trustworthy in the last couple of weeks.
> > 
> > I've been completely unable to get on Zoom from firefox esr.
> > Is it likely to work with Chrome or chromium?  One of my regular
> > meeetings has chosen Zoom, leaving me little choice.
> > 
> > Any idea how much computer jitsi needs?  My server is over a decade 
> > old.
> > I've been hanging onto it because it's too old to have a management
> > engine.
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> 
> The online version of jit.si - https://meet.jit.si/ - connects via
> your browser. You don't have to install on you server.
> 
> golinux
> 
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Nextcloud talk also works, doesn't require any software either. just a
webrtc enabled browser and a coturn server.

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\
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Dimitris via Dng]

On 4/7/20 9:05 AM, Rod Rodolico wrote:
> but it works so far with FF


doesn't work for everyone, that's why jitsi suggests the use of chromium
based browsers..

https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/commit/92740707f01547d4e431050ade1d17589c544629#diff-12cdb961bef2a8b83d0f510226f85495


https://community.jitsi.org/t/software-unusable-on-firefox-why/22143/10
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/4758



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[Dimitris via Dng]

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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Rod Rodolico]

I just installed a Jitsi instance on one of my old servers last week. My
15 year old granddaughter did most of the work. We built it as a Xen
virtual with 10G disk, 4G RAM and 4 dedicated cores. We used ASCII as
the Distro.

Tests so far have been two people (test for more planned for later this
week). With two people in the video conference, we ran about 8Mb/s
pretty steady the whole hour. Processor was about 40% on all four cores
and RAM was pretty much untouched.

A basic system is pretty much straight forward. It did "forget" to
create the rc.d entry for jitsi-videobridge2 service, but that was easy
to fix with
update-rc.d jitsi-videobridge2 defaults

More advanced setups allow you to set a password before you can create a
meeting (so not just anyone can do it), the ability to record the
meeting, and an interface with SIP. I have not tested any of those.

All in all, jitsi rocks. Tracking consists of some info in their own log
in /var/log/jitsi and, so far, all I've seen is the IP's that connect.

As was said, if all you want is a one off, or some occasional meetings,
https://meet.jit.si/ is set up and free. That way you don't eat
bandwidth and spend all the time building it out.

There is a client for Android, iPhone, OS-X, Debian, RPM, Arch and
Windoze. See https://jitsi.org/downloads/. I tried the Android version
on an old tablet and it worked ok. I mainly just use my browser. It
complains if I use an old version of FF, but it works so far with FF and
Chromium so you don't need to install a client.

Just found out about it a few weeks ago, so I haven't had time to break
it yet. So, nothing bad so far except the bandwidth, which isn't
horrible. Feel free to contact me if you want some graphs or the results
of our Wednesday test.

Rod

On 04/04/2020 05:07 AM, Raul Claro wrote:
> Dear Devlers,
> 
>     is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with
> Firefox (or Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in contact with.
> such als /https://global.gotomeeting.com/,  /work only with Windows or
> Mac and Chrome.
> 
>  Are there any Debian/Devuan alternatives to these systems?
> 
>     Thanks
> 
>     Raúl
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Rod Rodolico
Daily Data, Inc.
POB 140465
Dallas TX 75214-0465 US
http://dailydata.net
214.827.2170
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