Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On December 4, 2020 9:17:12 PM UTC, goli...@devuan.org wrote: >On 2020-12-04 14:25, Adam Borowski wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 12:43:25PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: >>> > I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them >yet. I >>> > don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you >think 6 >>> > more months of ascii support a safe bet? >>> >>> You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: >>> >>> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases >>> >>> Stretch will not go to oldstable status until Bullseye is released >and >>> there >>> is not even release date set yet for that to happen. Devuan's >release >>> of >>> Chimaera will be sometime after Bulleye becomes stable. No way ATM >to >>> guesstimate when in 2021 that will happen. >> >> Stretch has been oldstable for 1.5 years already. >> > >Sorry about that. Of course, I meant Buster . . . > >It's all becoming a bit of a blur these days . . . > >> A guesstimate for Bullseye's release is June, although effect of >> actions to >> shorten freeze time remains to be seen. >> > >And of course, Chimaera will be sometime after that. The more hands on > >deck, the sooner that will happen. > >But currently, as requested, please do what you can to test the >proposed >updates to be included on the Beowulf 3.1 point release. > >golinux > >> >> Meow! > >___ >Dng mailing list >Dng@lists.dyne.org >https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Got it! Thanks! So I should keep an eye on Debian to get a hint. -- Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity.___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Mental Outlaw does Devuan
He has a lot of good videos - not so accurate, but I love his enthusiasm. He reminds me of myself when I was 15. He just put this out: Devuan 3.0 Beowulf Install & Review - The Best Entry to Freedom from SystemD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzDwiEaehrQ=0 -- Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity.___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...)
Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl): > Imagine that you tried and failed to find any door that would taken a > skilled lockpicker more than three seconds to open. Would you leave the > entrance to your flat wide open without a door at all? That's what you're > suggesting. No, I'm not. As I've repeatedly clarified, my sites have correct, competently generated certs. People needing to vet their provenance can do so in a variety of ways. The CAs are merely not among those ways. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Obviousness (was: Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...))
Quoting Bernard Rosset via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > >It makes me sad that this view is deemed 'contrarian'. As a sysadmin, I > >consider it obvious common sense. > > I have no idea if it is contrarian or if it is the silent majority > of opinions. However the opinion being more vocal definitely seems > to be the one encouraging TLS encryption. It makes me very sad to contemplate that you think I denigrated or discouraged TLS encryption, as I certainly nowhere did. I could have sworn that I was clear that I encourage it, and in any event was _very_ clear that I was addressing the huge problems with the CA infrastructure, which is a different thing entirely, and has nothing at all to do with the merits of TLS or any other form of encryption. I'm sorry that you so thoroughly misunderstood what I said. Oh well. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-04 14:25, Adam Borowski wrote: On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 12:43:25PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them yet. I > don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you think 6 > more months of ascii support a safe bet? You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases Stretch will not go to oldstable status until Bullseye is released and there is not even release date set yet for that to happen. Devuan's release of Chimaera will be sometime after Bulleye becomes stable. No way ATM to guesstimate when in 2021 that will happen. Stretch has been oldstable for 1.5 years already. Sorry about that. Of course, I meant Buster . . . It's all becoming a bit of a blur these days . . . A guesstimate for Bullseye's release is June, although effect of actions to shorten freeze time remains to be seen. And of course, Chimaera will be sometime after that. The more hands on deck, the sooner that will happen. But currently, as requested, please do what you can to test the proposed updates to be included on the Beowulf 3.1 point release. golinux Meow! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...)
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 04:05:27PM +0200, Dimitris via Dng wrote: > On 12/4/20 3:56 PM, Adam Borowski wrote: > > "1989tiananmen". > > > a different password worked. > > maybe it's too common? did you try adding special/more characters? I don't normally use such weak passwords. The whole exercise was triggered by special characters I tried being disallowed. Also, all such disallowed passwords result in an error message, rather than the UI hanging (it apparently can't handle network issues gracefully). > > So, hmm, how come a https connection gets intercepted by the Great Firewall? > > No hacking by the govt is involved here... > > if it doesn't get intercepted by some sort of sslstrip, maybe huawei end is > to blame.. (could also be weak huawei encryption...). You don't need to hack encryption if one of the ends cooperates. > nsa has tapped into fb,google,m$,ibm,amazon,others?, so maybe chinese govt > has done the same ... NSA keeps lying they don't do so, and tries to hide their actions. (But see Lavabit...) > no "chinese snowden" out yet with proove.. :D The Golden Shield not only doesn't try to hide, but keeps reminding their citizens^Wsubjects that they indeed are tracked, watched, and censored. No need for a Snowden. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Have you accepted Khorne as your lord and saviour? ⠈⠳⣄ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 12:43:25PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them yet. I > > don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you think 6 > > more months of ascii support a safe bet? > > You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases > > Stretch will not go to oldstable status until Bullseye is released and there > is not even release date set yet for that to happen. Devuan's release of > Chimaera will be sometime after Bulleye becomes stable. No way ATM to > guesstimate when in 2021 that will happen. Stretch has been oldstable for 1.5 years already. A guesstimate for Bullseye's release is June, although effect of actions to shorten freeze time remains to be seen. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Certified airhead; got the CT scan to prove that! ⠈⠳⣄ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-04 02:26, Simon Walter wrote: On 12/4/20 10:47 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-12-03 19:39, Simon Walter wrote: Hi all, First of all, sorry if I missed this in the docs somewhere. I had a look around the website and particularly https://www.devuan.org/os/releases has no info. When can I expect oldstable to move to archived? I suppose I should keep an eye out for a Chimaera BETA announcement and then change is imminent. Thanks, Simon ___ When chimaera stable 4.0 is released, ascii will become oldoldstable and archived. That won't be happening anytime soon afaik. We do have a beowulf point release in the works. golinux I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them yet. I don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you think 6 more months of ascii support a safe bet? You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases Stretch will not go to oldstable status until Bullseye is released and there is not even release date set yet for that to happen. Devuan's release of Chimaera will be sometime after Bulleye becomes stable. No way ATM to guesstimate when in 2021 that will happen. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 09:59:01AM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 03:33:41PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > > What, specifically, gets installed as part of Devuan which you don't want > > to > > see there? > > As an exercise, try doing a minimal install via debootstrap, which is > arguably the easiest way to tailor an install. I've thus far not managed to > get an install through without elogind creeping in, even if I explicitly > mark it as something to ignore. The Devuan live media I use for installs > runs elogind. It sort of reminds me of the Agent Smith virus speech from > The Matrix. > > > > libsystemd0 is a stub library which contains none of the objectionable > > code or "features" which people who don't want systemd are trying to keep > > away from. > > Unix libraries bundle related functionality together so that you can link > just that which you need. Can you explain how libsystemd0 fits into this > model? I'm unclear on what set of related functions it provides. libsystemd0 is, as I've been told, a library that provides the interfaces provided by systemd without the content. For example, a typical systemd feature will, as implemented in libsystemd0, merely report back in the proper manner, that the facility requested is not available. As such is it harmless, but allows programs that have only incidental delendency on systemd to function properly when run without it. A program can test whether it it running on a systemd system or not and act properly on either kind of system. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...)
> On 5 Dec 2020, at 00:56, Adam Borowski wrote: > > First, an anecdote: to track sleep problems I have, I bought a cheapest > smartband, a Huawei one. It has almost no controls on its own, and it's UI > needs a dumbphone (Google or Apple infested) via Bluetooth. Because > $REASONS¹ I happen to carry two phones, one of them such a dumbphone, > with no IP network connection 99.999% of the time. Setting up the > smartband requires a "Huawei account" (but works correctly without network > later on). Such an account needs a password. Alas, Huawei has weird > requirements (like, banning spaces and non-alnum chars) so none of my > usual password schemes work. Pissed off, calling them Nazis would be > inappropriate so I instead chosen the password to be "1989tiananmen". > Account creation timed off. I tried multiple times, over a few days, > both from the phone and from website, on different browsers/OSes/machines/ > networks (I did not suspect a low-level interruption). Finally, choosing > a different password worked. > > So, hmm, how come a https connection gets intercepted by the Great Firewall? > No hacking by the govt is involved here... Not at all surprising. The same problem exists with wechat app, the backbone of Chinese society. Passwords are clearly (deliberately I’m guessing) not being hashed on the backend database. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...)
On 12/4/20 3:56 PM, Adam Borowski wrote: "1989tiananmen". a different password worked. maybe it's too common? did you try adding special/more characters? So, hmm, how come a https connection gets intercepted by the Great Firewall? No hacking by the govt is involved here... if it doesn't get intercepted by some sort of sslstrip, maybe huawei end is to blame.. (could also be weak huawei encryption...). nsa has tapped into fb,google,m$,ibm,amazon,others?, so maybe chinese govt has done the same ... no "chinese snowden" out yet with proove.. :D 2c. d ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Testing for beowulf 3.1 point release
Hello, The Devuan Developers are preparing for a beowulf point release (3.1). It would be very helpful to have the new versions of packages tested more widely. If you feel able to help with that and are prepared to debug any breakage with us, please - add beowulf-proposed-updates to apt sources.list: deb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan beowulf-proposed-updates main - apt update - apt upgrade beowulf-proposed-updates contains packages built from the following updated source versions. base-files| 10.3+devuan3.5 choose-init | 0.3 cryptsetup-modified-functions | 19.09.02+devuan1 dbus | 1.12.20-0+deb10u1+devuan1 eudev | 3.2.9-8~beowulf1 init-system-helpers | 1.56+nmu1+devuan3 lightdm | 1.26.0-4+devuan1 refractainstaller-base| 9.5.6 refractainstaller-gui | 9.5.6 tomcat9 | 9.0.31-1~deb10u2+devuan1 udev | 1:3.2.9+devuan4 Depending on your setup, you will get some, but not necessarily all of those. If you encounter problems, please use reportbug to send a report to Devuan BTS. Thanks Mark signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...)
First, an anecdote: to track sleep problems I have, I bought a cheapest smartband, a Huawei one. It has almost no controls on its own, and it's UI needs a dumbphone (Google or Apple infested) via Bluetooth. Because $REASONS¹ I happen to carry two phones, one of them such a dumbphone, with no IP network connection 99.999% of the time. Setting up the smartband requires a "Huawei account" (but works correctly without network later on). Such an account needs a password. Alas, Huawei has weird requirements (like, banning spaces and non-alnum chars) so none of my usual password schemes work. Pissed off, calling them Nazis would be inappropriate so I instead chosen the password to be "1989tiananmen". Account creation timed off. I tried multiple times, over a few days, both from the phone and from website, on different browsers/OSes/machines/ networks (I did not suspect a low-level interruption). Finally, choosing a different password worked. So, hmm, how come a https connection gets intercepted by the Great Firewall? No hacking by the govt is involved here... On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 01:38:47PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..meanwhile, I too lean towards Ian's contrarianism: > > http://michael.orlitzky.com/articles/lets_not_encrypt.xhtml > > I couldn't possibly agree more. Let's Encrypt is a Potemkin Village > approach to the SSL cert problem; it's pretend security that pretends as > if a broken and unreliable CA infrastructure weren't that. The CA cartel model is indeed broken, with its "any of thousands CAs can sign anything" scheme. But then, Let's Encrypt at least killed their protection racket. Sure, the mode can be subverted by any of the CAs. But it's governments that can order CAs to do anything, not ordinary crooks. Imagine that you tried and failed to find any door that would taken a skilled lockpicker more than three seconds to open. Would you leave the entrance to your flat wide open without a door at all? That's what you're suggesting. That the door has known security issues doesn't mean it can't still stop causal attackers. CA-model SSL still protects us from script kiddies. So like a common door, it's still a good thing to have. Meow! [1]. Gemini PDA is an awesome micro-laptop, but it's unable to connect to phone networks unless you reformat to a dumbphone OS. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Certified airhead; got the CT scan to prove that! ⠈⠳⣄ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Obviousness (was: Let's Encrypt (was: snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...))
It makes me sad that this view is deemed 'contrarian'. As a sysadmin, I consider it obvious common sense. I have no idea if it is contrarian or if it is the silent majority of opinions. However the opinion being more vocal definitely seems to be the one encouraging TLS encryption. The most vocal opinion tend to appear as winning or having won the ticket... that way of seeing things creates problems if a silent majority exists and when it suddenly expresses itself. I guess recent times tried to teach us lessons about that. If it can help you understanding the world better, there are no such things as "obvious" nor "common sense". Those are made-up stances which bring the comfortable and convenient consequence of avoiding debate. Don't get me wrong: we all are glad to join groups in which at least part of our opinions are externally validated. It just does not mean one's right. There will always be at least one person, amongst the billions crawling over this planet, having the exact opposite idea... and it does not imply that person is less sagacious or qualified than you are. Bernard (Beer) Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] samba/NAS box problem
On 12/4/20 11:47 AM, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > Am 4. Dezember 2020 02:19:42 MEZ schrieb Simon Walter : >> On 2020-12-02 02:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: >> ... >>> You can 'nmap --script smb-protocols ' for a list of supported >>> versions. >>> >>> libre Grüße, >>> Florian >> Hi Florian, >> >> What package holds said "smb-protocols" script? >> >> I regularly troubleshoot in MS shops and that looks useful. > > Hallo Simon, > > it's in nmap-common > > libre Grüße, > Florian > Aha! It's not in Ascii. That explains a lot. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 12/4/20 10:47 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2020-12-03 19:39, Simon Walter wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> First of all, sorry if I missed this in the docs somewhere. I had a look >> around the website and particularly https://www.devuan.org/os/releases >> has no info. >> >> When can I expect oldstable to move to archived? I suppose I should keep >> an eye out for a Chimaera BETA announcement and then change is imminent. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Simon >> ___ >> > > When chimaera stable 4.0 is released, ascii will become oldoldstable > and archived. That won't be happening anytime soon afaik. We do have > a beowulf point release in the works. > > golinux > I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them yet. I don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you think 6 more months of ascii support a safe bet? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
