Re: [DNG] devuan.org signature problem
On Thursday 08 September 2022 at 19:52:20, Joel Roth via Dng wrote: > Hi list, > > Upgrading a machine to daedalus, apt-get update returns this error: > > W: GPG error: http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease: The > following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG BB23C00C61FC752C Devuan > Repository (Amprolla3 on Nemesis) > Is this easily resolved? See https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220903.172703.1050aabb.en.html and https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220903.173401.2043605d.en.html Antony. -- Python is executable pseudocode. Perl is executable line noise. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Invalid signatures on testing
On Monday 05 September 2022 at 13:35:00, Antonio Rendina via Dng wrote: > Hi, > I get invalid signatures from testing version. Should I just wait that > they get updated or is there something that I should do to update it? See https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220903.172703.1050aabb.en.html and https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220903.173401.2043605d.en.html Antony. -- "Linux is going to be part of the future. It's going to be like Unix was." - Peter Moore, Asia-Pacific general manager, Microsoft Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mutt attachment problem
On Monday 22 August 2022 at 18:10:53, Haines Brown wrote: > I usually have no problem sending attachments with mutt. But now I > want to send a directory that holds files: > > ./patthToDirectory/directory > > This does not work because I gather attachements must be > single files. Is not a directory a single file?. Highly technically, yes, a directory is a single file, however it is a file containing filenames and links to inodes, which are the locations on disk of the data in those files. So, although you might find some way of sending the file "." to someone, they would nto receive the content of the files - at best, they would receive a list of the names, and pointers to where they reside on the file system in your computer. > So I zipped the directory. But when I try to attach it I get the error Please show us exactly how you attached it. > "Error sending message, child exited 1 ()" Is that really it - "Error sending message"? No further information about what the error is? > My fishing on line did not find a solution. What is this "child"? Is > it the attachment process? I do not know mutt well enough to speculate on an answer to that. > The size of the zip file is 164 Mb Just in case it's actually your mail service provider responding to your mail client trying to send such a large message, try the same thing but with a small zip file (such as 2Mb) to see whether that nakes the difference. Antony. -- "Tannenbaumschmuck" is a perfectly reasonable German word meaning Christmas tree decorations, and is not a quote from Linus Torvalds. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wifi dropping ramdomly
On Wednesday 17 August 2022 at 12:32:18, Hendrik Boom wrote: > I've found that wifi shuts down on one of the older and slower local wifi > frequencies whenever my microwave oven is in use. I would suggest you get someone to check the seals on your oven if it's leaking that much radiation. Antony. -- My life is going completely according to plan. I do sometimes wish it had been *my* plan, though. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Saturday 30 July 2022 at 16:47:59, Steve Litt wrote: > Inconvenient to newbies? LOL, compare it to *too or Slackware :-) Have I missed something - are there spinoffs from Gentoo which also end in too? Just intrigued at your (twice, now) use of the wildcard. Antony. -- You can spend the whole of your life trying to be popular, but at the end of the day the size of the crowd at your funeral will be largely dictated by the weather. - Frank Skinner Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Saturday 30 July 2022 at 12:07:53, Steve Litt wrote: > On Fri, 2022-07-29 at 14:27 +0200, tito via Dng wrote: > > https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/ > > > > I think the author knows nothing about devuan and spreads FUD > > I thought most of the Devuan review was accurate and complimentary. > However, I've never thought of Devuan as "retro" or particularly > inconvenient for newbies. I regarded those comments as applying identically to Debian, and are true only if you choose (a) not to use the graphical installer (which the author has completely overlooked), and (b) fail to select "guided partitioning" and "all files in a single partition". I do think the overall impression he gives is unfavourable and inaccurate. I'm rather more amazed that he labels Devuan (and therefore by extension Debian too) as "retro" and yet gives a pretty complimentary review, in comparison, of Slackware! Antony. -- yes, but this is #lbw, we don't do normal Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] no mails from dng :-( [maybe OT]
On Thursday 28 July 2022 at 12:41:35, marc wrote: > > I think the first step would be to fix the reverse DNS entry for the host > > lists.dyne.org > > Or more precisely, 162.19.139.95 which claims to be sending mail > as lists.dyne.org - at least to me > > Perhaps this is a live server migration/restore/update ? Indeed - the earliest email I see coming from that address is Tue Jul 19 11:26:02 CEST 2022 Before then, they were coming from mail.dyne.org [141.95.83.167] Antony. -- I don't know, maybe if we all waited then cosmic rays would write all our software for us. Of course it might take a while. - Ron Minnich, Los Alamos National Laboratory Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] UEFI, software RAID1, LVM and encryption
On Sunday 24 July 2022 at 11:58:01, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: > Hi Antony, > > Thanks for the feedback. I've been researching a bit myself in the mean > time as well but still value additional input from the list. I completely agree - asking people with experience, and with whom you can have a bit of a dialogue, is always a bit more encouranging than finding informatin of random ageas from random people on the Internet :) > > The only part of this you need to remember to do manually is grub-install > > /dev/thing2 if there's ever a new version of grub itself. > > I vaguely recall reading that you could enter a list of space separated > devices to install GRUB to in the installer. True, you can do this in the installer, but if grub gets updated later on, my experience is that it only updates the boot loader on the primary disk. > > Er, what's ESP? > > It's not Extra-Sensory Perception in this context :-P > It's the EFI System Partition and is what gets mounted on /boot/efi/. Ah, right, I seriously doubt you can put that on Raid, because it's not being read by Linux - it's being read by the UEFI/Bios ystsem itself in the machine, in order to find the boot loader (as far as I understand this process). However, I also think it's something that you would simply install on both disksk and then leave it thre - either disk can then get the machien going. > > >- if not, how do I keep the copies in sync? As far as *that* one goes, I don't think you need to - I don't think this ever gets updated. > > > - do I need a separate partition for /boot? > > > > You do not need one, but you can have one. > > Then I'd rather do without. I asked because on a few of my systems it > *is* a separate partition. Yes, it used to be necessary before Linux could find /boot in LVM on Raid, for example. You could put that separate /boot on Raid, but the LVM bit in the middle confused Grub before 2.00, as I recall. > Thinking about that, I believe these were installed to use a "fully" > encrypted system, i.e. the partition mounted on / encrypted as well. In > that case it makes sense because most BIOSs probably do not handle that. It's not the Bios that's doing anything at this stage - it's Grub. Bios looks at the boot sector on the disk, discovers Grub, and hands control over to it. Grub then needs to know where / how to find /boot, because that contains /boot/grub/grub.cfg, which has all the details of everything want to be able to start up. But, the Grub loader in the boot sector is small and simple, and also needs to be able to find an encryption key if it's going to be able to decipher /boot in an encrypted file system. > If I only want/need an encrypted /home then I should be okay with /boot > on the partition that's mounted on /. Precisely. > > > - does randomizing the partition for /home make sense if on LVM and may > > >get resized sometime in the future? > > > > What do you mean by randomizing? > > Writing random data to the partition before using it. This is supposed > to make it harder to decrypt for prying eyes. Ah, right. > After I sent my mail, I thought I could randomize the whole disk (or > that part that's used as an LVM PV) but that might take a while ... Well, let's just think about that - if you write random data to a device and then use it as a PV for a VG, anyone who can get into the LVM system can see the VG and whatever LVs it contains, and therefore just ignores the random data. Unless you can put LVM2 onto an encrypted block device (?), then I don't think this helps you. All you can do is create a VG (that's visible to anyone who can get this far into your machine) and then create an encrypted FS on it. However, as you may have worked out, this is beyond my eperience of setting things up - I do LVM on RAID all the time (both RAID 1 and RAID5), but I've never bothered to set up an encrypted file system. I'm sure others can offer expertise here :) > Thanks again and looking forward to other opinions and follow-up! Indeed - I hope other people chip in with different opinions and expertise of doing things outside my habits. Antony. -- When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the same thing. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] UEFI, software RAID1, LVM and encryption
On Sunday 24 July 2022 at 05:18:47, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > Hi list, > > I lost the single SSD on my mini PC and am in the process of rethinking > its storage. So far, I've got myself two brand new and identical PCIe > NVMe SSDs (256GB) for use in a software RAID1 setup. I think I need to > enable UEFI to get access to the BIOS from the GRUB menu. > > I want my /home directory on a partition of its own, at a minimum, and > encrypt it. I don't see a need to encrypt much else as I am not after > plausible deniability. It's mostly to be able to return a broken disk > for a replacement and still sleep in relative peace of mind ;-) > > I haven't quite made up my mind as to a need for other partitions. I > use containers and VMs quite a bit. Perhaps these are better stored > some place other than the partitions for / or (an encrypted) /home. > > With 64GB of RAM, I don't see much need for swap. If needed, I could > always add a swapfile instead of a partition. > > Given the above, > > - what are your expert(?) opinions on partitioning for this? Use LVM on top of RAID - great flexibility, plus reliability. > - how do I make (and keep) both disks bootable? grub-install /dev/thing1 grub-install /dev/thing2 You can keep /boot as a separate RAID1 (separate from LVM, that is) if you want to, or you can include it in LVM these days. That means you have the grub loader itself, the grub.conf, and the initramfs and kernel, all replicated on both disks. The only part of this you need to remember to do manually is grub-install /dev/thing2 if there's ever a new version of grub itself. > - can I put the ESP on RAID1? Er, what's ESP? >- if not, how do I keep the copies in sync? > - do I need a separate partition for /boot? You do not need one, but you can have one. >- if so, can it be put on RAID1? Yes. > - if not, how do I keep the copies in sync? n/a > - should I use LVM? Yes, IMHO. > - does randomizing the partition for /home make sense if on LVM and may >get resized sometime in the future? What do you mean by randomizing? Antony. -- Too many people spend money they haven't earned to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like. - Will Rogers Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Chimaera on a Banana Pi R1 / Lamobo R1
On Saturday 23 July 2022 at 14:52:37, Antony Stone wrote: > On Saturday 23 July 2022 at 13:47:00, Antony Stone wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I'm trying to install Devuan Chimaera on a Banana Pi R1 board, also known > > as a Lamobo R1: https://linux-sunxi.org/Lamobo_R1 > > > > The keyboard doesn't work. (It works on any other computer) > > Update: I've now connected an FTDI UART adapter and I have two-way > communication with the Banana over its serial port, and I can start going > through the installation process. > > This time, the network doesn't work... > So, I'm starting to wonder - has anybody verified that the Devuan images > I'm working from actually work on this board? Further update - I just put a Bananian image onto the SD card, booted it up, and both the USB keyboard and the network interface work. So, there's nothing wrong with the hardware - but the Chimaera installer certainly doesn't work on it. Can anyone kindly point me at how best to debug this, and maybe improve the installer for others? Thanks, Antony. -- "I estimate there's a world market for about five computers." - Thomas J Watson, Chairman of IBM Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Chimaera on a Banana Pi R1 / Lamobo R1
On Saturday 23 July 2022 at 13:47:00, Antony Stone wrote: > Hi. > > I'm trying to install Devuan Chimaera on a Banana Pi R1 board, also known > as a Lamobo R1: https://linux-sunxi.org/Lamobo_R1 > The keyboard doesn't work. (It works on any other computer) Update: I've now connected an FTDI UART adapter and I have two-way communication with the Banana over its serial port, and I can start going through the installation process. This time, the network doesn't work - it can't get an address by DHCP (my local network has a perfectly working DHCP server, in fact it's another Banana Pi R1 running Bananian). So, I'm starting to wonder - has anybody verified that the Devuan images I'm working from actually work on this board? Thanks for any input, Antony. -- Most people are aware that the Universe is big. - Paul Davies, Professor of Theoretical Physics Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Chimaera on a Banana Pi R1 / Lamobo R1
Hi. I'm trying to install Devuan Chimaera on a Banana Pi R1 board, also known as a Lamobo R1: https://linux-sunxi.org/Lamobo_R1 I've previously been using it with Bananian (https://www.bananian.org/ seems to be pretty broken at present), but since I use Devuan on everything else I have, I'd like to switch this device over as well. I'm fetching the files from http://deb.devuan.org/devuan/dists/chimaera /main/installer-armhf/current/images/netboot/SD-card-images/ I download firmware.Lamobo_R1.img.gz and partition.img.gz I create the SD image with zcat firmware.Lamobo_R1.img.gz partition.img.gz >chimaera.img I write it to the SD card with dd if=chimaera.img of=/dev/mmcblk0 I insert it into the Banana, together with a USB keyboard and an HDMI screen, power it up and I see some boot messages, which are pretty rapidly replaced with a menu asking me which language I wish to use. So far, so good :) The keyboard doesn't work. (It works on any other computer) I'm using a 3A PSU for the Banana, and for now there is no HDD attached, so I'm pretty certain that power is not a problem. The USB port and an attached keyboard work fine under Bananian. Can anyone offer suggestions on what to try next, to get the installer able to read the keyboard? I can mount the partition that's been created on the SD card on the machine I wrote it with, and it contains: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1575 Jul 10 06:50 boot.scr drwxr-xr-x 2 root root75264 Jul 10 06:50 dtbs -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 23648046 Jul 10 06:50 initrd.gz -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4968960 Jul 10 06:50 vmlinuz Maybe there's something there I can edit there to get the keyboard working? Thanks, Antony. -- The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Upgrade & migrate?
On Thursday 07 July 2022 at 00:41:18, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote: > I stand to be corrected, but I think not supported simply means if you > get yourself into trouble, you keep the pieces, not that it can't be > done. I don't believe I'm asking about "skipping releases", though (which is what is referred to in the documentation as not supported). My definition of skipping releases would be: Ascii (skip Beowulf) -> Chimaera Stretch (skip Buster) -> Bullseye Stretch (skip Buster or Beowulf) -> Chimaera I'm not asking about any of those. I'm asking about going from one version of Debian to the next version of Devuan. > On Wed, Jul 06, 2022 at 05:56:24PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I notice that https://www.devuan.org/ states that "Devuan Chimaera can be > > installed as an upgrade from Devuan Beowulf or migrated from Debian > > Bullseye. Note that skipping releases is not supported." > > > > I seem to recall that earlier releases could be: > > - migrated from the equivalent Debian release (eg: Buster -> Beowulf) > > > > - upgraded from the previous Devuan release (eg: Ascii -> Beowulf) > > > > - upgraded and migrated from the previous Debian release (eg: Stretch -> > > > > Beowulf) > > > > Is that last option still valid for eg: Buster -> Chimaera? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Antony. -- I bought a book on memory techniques, but I've forgotten where I put it. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Upgrade & migrate?
Hi. I notice that https://www.devuan.org/ states that "Devuan Chimaera can be installed as an upgrade from Devuan Beowulf or migrated from Debian Bullseye. Note that skipping releases is not supported." I seem to recall that earlier releases could be: - migrated from the equivalent Debian release (eg: Buster -> Beowulf) - upgraded from the previous Devuan release (eg: Ascii -> Beowulf) - upgraded and migrated from the previous Debian release (eg: Stretch -> Beowulf) Is that last option still valid for eg: Buster -> Chimaera? Thanks, Antony. -- It may not seem obvious, but (6 x 5 + 5) x 5 - 55 equals 5! Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Linux Pro Magazine revisits Devuan
On Wednesday 06 July 2022 at 15:19:19, Steve Litt wrote: > How does one give the distro a few dollars? Try the "Donate now" link at the top right of https://www.devuan.org/ Antony. -- If you ask a Yorkshireman whether he knows the German word for "egg", don't be surprised if he just smiles and says "Aye". Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] PHP question
On Thursday 23 June 2022 at 17:49:03, Curtis Maurand via Dng wrote: > Hello, > > I've been running Devuan on my break even public facing webhosting > system for several years. I've been using ISPConfig and the debian > perfect server instructions with adjustments for Devuan. I'm up to > Devuan Beowulf at the moment and trying to go to chimaera so that I can > get PHP 7.4 support. I'm happy to build a new server and migrate sites > from Beowulf to Chimaera except that PHP 7.4 goes end of life at the end > of November of this year. The current versions PHP are 8.0 and 8.1. > > Using the instructions at packages.sury.org, I am able to add the other > versions of PHP except for PHPN.n-fpm due to a (what seems to be a > completely unnecessary) dependence upon systemd. I ran into something similar when installing FreeSwitch under Devuan. That had a specific dependency on 'freeswitch-systemd' which in turn had a dependency on 'systemd'. Looking at 'freeswitch-systemd' it turned out simply to be the systemd unit file (and perhaps some associated stuff, but certainly nothing I wanted to have), so I found out how to use "equivs" and built my own package named 'freeswitch-systemd' simply to fulfil the dependency and allow me to install the rest of FreeSwitch. Many thanks to Nikolaus Klepp on this list for introducing me to that tool: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20210819.162944.34afeba7.en.html Maybe you can do the same? Look in detail at precisely what dependencies there are, and whether you can fool the installer into thinking you already have one of the packages it needs, and therefore it can go ahead and install the rest. http://retinal.dehy.de/docs/doku.php?id=technotes:freeswitch may also help you. Antony. -- In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded. - Terry Pratchett Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] strange effect on overwrite
On Thursday 23 June 2022 at 15:41:21, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng wrote: > This does not make sense to me: > > >> dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1 > > >> > > >> reports 2.6 GB (expected) > > IMO ~ 1GB is expected, not 2.6: > > $ dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1 > 1+0 Datensätze ein > 1+0 Datensätze aus > 1073741824 Bytes (1,1 GB, 1,0 GiB) kopiert, 0,617959 s, 1,7 GB/s I agree with what you say, but I had the impression that Radisson was trying to say that the transfer rate was 2.6 Gbps the first time, and 200 Mbps the second time. Antony. > Anno domini 2022 Thu, 23 Jun 14:27:59 +0200 Radisson via Dng scripsit: > > Its a normal HD i guess 4096 is ok, > > but i do not think that this matters. > > > > Am 23.06.22 um 13:11 schrieb Rich W: > > > Hi, > > > > > > A blocksize of 1G seems extreme. > > > What is the optimal blocksize of the output device? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -Rich > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 4:52 AM Radisson via Dng wrote: > > >> Hi list, > > >> i found a strange ext4 (?) effect. > > >> > > >> when i write to a disk: > > >> dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1 > > >> > > >> reports 2.6 GB (expected) > > >> doing again speed drops to 200MB. > > >> > > >> removing xx restores old speed. > > >> > > >> I ask the net and it seems that the effect is there > > >> since kernel 2.6. I found the explainations a bit confusing. > > >> > > >> does anyone know more ? > > >> > > >> note: i was analysing a performace issue for mysql and i am > > >> not sure if that problems matters outside tests. > > >> > > >> re > > >> rp -- .evah I serutangis sseltniop tsom eht fo eno eb tsum sihT Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] do I need drivers for
On Wednesday 22 June 2022 at 01:04:24, Antony Stone wrote: > I have a machine with a motherboard having 6 SATA ports, into which are > connected one SSD and five HDDs; it also has two USB3 ports into which are > plugged two Fantec 8-drive external cabinets, each containing 8 SATA disks, > so the total range of my /dev/sdX devices is /dev/sda to /dev/sdv. PS: Just in case you wonder "hm, sdv is awfully close to sdz - what happens next?", the answer is simply that the standard Linux kernel then moves on to device names /dev/sdaa, /dev/sdab, etc... I'm not sure where the current limit of device names is, but I don't think you'll be able to reach it with any hardware means of connecting drives (you might manage it at a push with iSCSI devies etc). Antony. -- What do you call a dinosaur with only one eye? A Doyouthinkesaurus. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] do I need drivers for
On Wednesday 22 June 2022 at 00:10:51, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Have found some PCIe 3.0 cards with 16 SATA port count. > > Do I need any kind of special driver to use this many SATA ports? tito has a good question - what sort of cards are they? But, in principle, no, you do not need any special driver to use a ridiculous number of SATA ports, or disks with any sort of connection. I have a machine with a motherboard having 6 SATA ports, into which are connected one SSD and five HDDs; it also has two USB3 ports into which are plugged two Fantec 8-drive external cabinets, each containing 8 SATA disks, so the total range of my /dev/sdX devices is /dev/sda to /dev/sdv. The standard (Beowulf at present) kernel just handles this fine. I can do MD- RAID and LVM2 (and also both) with the devices with no problem. Many years ago I did the same sort of thing with IDE - I had PCI cards with two IDE connectors, each connector capable of two devices each (master + slave), and I could build machines with four such cards in (so, 4 x 2 x 2 = 16 drives in total) again without doing anything special to the kernel. Antony. -- "When you talk about Linux versus Windows, you're talking about which operating system is the best value for money and fit for purpose. That's a very basic decision customers can make if they have the information available to them. Quite frankly if we lose to Linux because our customers say it's better value for money, tough luck for us." - Steve Vamos, MD of Microsoft Australia Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] HP Ryzen Laptop
Hi. I just came across a favourable review of a new HP laptop based on AMD Ryzen. I like the name they gave it :) https://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=31205 Antony. -- Abandon hope, all ye who enter here. You'll feel much better about things once you do. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] fdisk SD card partitioning question
On Sunday 12 June 2022 at 17:11:45, Fred wrote: > Hello, > > I have some directories I want to back up to an SD card while preserving > the permissions. I have tried to repartition a 64GB card and write an > ext4 filesystem. What is the existing partition table? Out of interest, since this is ext4 and therefore Linux (not Windows), why partiton at all? Why not just "mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdX"? > fdisk says the card has 124702720 sectors and has 59.5GB available. > However it will not make a partition over 27.5GB. Why and what to do? What's the output of "fdisk -l /dev/sdX"? Have you tried wiping the partition table and creating a new one? dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=10M count=10 Then use fdisk as usual - it will prompt you to create a new table. Antony. -- In Heaven, the beer is Belgian, the chefs are Italian, the supermarkets are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers are French, the entertainment is American, and everything is organised by the Swiss. In Hell, the beer is American, the chefs are British, the supermarkets are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the entertainment is Belgian, and everything is organised by the Italians. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] cron runs a ghost command
On Sunday 05 June 2022 at 14:02:36, Haines Brown wrote: > I find that user's cron runs a command defined in crontab -e some time > ago but then removed. At present there is no command defined in $ > crontab -e. What does "crontab -l" (as the user) or "crontab -u [username] -l" (as root) tell you? > Nevertheless cron runs the old command one on schedule. What does root find in /var/spool/cron/crontabs? If there's a file named for the user in question there, what does cat show you is in it? Antony. -- "Can you keep a secret?" "Well, I shouldn't really tell you this, but... no." Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] assistance sought to repair install - - re:python
On Saturday 14 May 2022 at 14:37:41, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > I was trying to clean up my /usr/bin directory so was discarding older > versions of software. You should never manually delete binaries or library files which have been installed by a package management system. If you want to get rid of them use something like "aptitude purge python3.9" so that: a) the package management system can tell you if this seems not to be a good idea b) the packagement system knows it has happened if it allows you to go ahead > Had python3.10 available so thought (foolishly - - now clear) that > python3.9 was a great candidate for discard. > Nope nix and no way. > > Now I have myself more than a bit of a mess with my installed python > systems. > > Suggestions as to how to repair my 'mess'? Have you tried simply "aptitude install python3.9" or possibly "aptitude reinstall python3.9" etc (for each of the versions of python which you seem to be having problems with)? > (Following is what the apt update upgrade process barfs up. Not quite sure what you mean by that - why are you trying to do an upgrade when your system is currently in a broken state? You want to restore it to working as it was, before you try to do something as major as an upgrade. > Errors were encountered while processing: > python2.7-minimal > python3.9-minimal > python3.9 > python2.7 > python3.9-dev So, were you fiddling with both python2.7 and python3.9, or did you delete python2.7 some time ago and you've only just started seeing the consequences? I'll say again (slghtly dfifferently): a package management system is for installing and managing the software on your machine, so use it for that and don't try to over-ride it manually. Best case: you both get confused; worst case: you can't reboot, or use the package management tool itself. My other (only slightly) tongue-in-cheek comment would be "restoring from backup might be your simplest option in a case like this". Antony. -- Abandon hope, all ye who enter here. You'll feel much better about things once you do. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] resolv.conf
On Sunday 08 May 2022 at 16:24:03, william m. moss wrote: > Years ago I became fed up with too many applications and installations > corrupting my resolv.conf. I type in a resolv.conf using an editor. Me too. > To prevent the file from being corrupted by other applications: chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf Antony. -- "Microsoft's profit margins require a monopoly lock on the market; thus, they're stuck with being predatory evil bastards. The moment they stop being predatory evil bastards, their stock price will tank and their options pyramid will crash and it will be all over." - Eric S Raymond Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Hardware support for new Thinkpad?
On Sunday 24 April 2022 at 13:28:38, . via Dng wrote: > I just got a Thinkpad P1 gen 4, and Chimaera doesn't recognize the > audio, camera, or HDMI port (not to mention the fingerprint sensor in > the power switch). I could use some guidance in what to look for... I would start with lspci, lsusb and possibly dmidecode. > It has a Tiger Lake-H processor, I don't know what chipset. I think I > need a command like "lspci" to identify the multimedia hardware, but I > don't know what to look for. Anything which says "audio" or "video" in the output is a good start :) > For what it's worth, the last couple of releases of Ubuntu *do* support > the multimedia hardware. In that case I would boot into a (live?) version of Ubuntu and run: lsusb lspci lsmod That last command will tell you which kernel modules have been loaded in order to support the various hardware devices. > Do I need to move to Daedalus? Possibly - it's worth a try, to see whether it does a better job with less work than persuading Chimaera. > If so, is there an install package for that? Yes, for example http://devuan.bardia.tech/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/ > Thanks for any help in getting this machine up on Devuan. Feel free to post the output of lsusb and lspci here (best from Ubuntu, since it seems really to know what the things are) in case anyone recognises devices and can point you further in a helpful direction. Antony. -- The first fifty percent of an engineering project takes ninety percent of the time, and the remaining fifty percent takes another ninety percent of the time. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Find efficiency [Was: Re: mouse driver question]
On Sunday 24 April 2022 at 04:15:35, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > Hi, > > Antony Stone writes: > > > > I just tried several successive searches for a few unique filenames in a > > directory tree (all files in the same directory, just in case the > > position made a difference). > > > > The first search took 6 minutes and clearly set up some cache of results, > > because subsequent searches were consistently: > > > > find . | grep filename : 20 seconds > > > > find . -name filename : 25 seconds > > > > That was consistent no matter whether the two filenames were the same, or > > different but still in the same directory, and no matter which command > > was run first. > > > > Nice observation. > > Indeed but you must have an awful lot of files, slow disks and/or a slow > network connection. After setting up the cache on my machine, I get 0.7 > seconds for the -name approach and 0.5 seconds for grep. > That's with close to half a million filesystem entries and about 7000 of > those on an NFS backed filesystem on the NAS downstairs. The rest is on > an SSD (NVMe). I deliberately chose a large file system because I prefer comparing bigger numbers when I can. In my case there are 11,174,006 files occupying 8.8 Tbytes, all on spinning metal disks, and housed in not-especially-fast HP N54L microservers. Antony. -- "It would appear we have reached the limits of what it is possible to achieve with computer technology, although one should be careful with such statements; they tend to sound pretty silly in five years." - John von Neumann (1949) Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 22:57:12, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:15:34 +0200 Antony Stone wrote: > > On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > > > > > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > > > > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf > > > > Personally I'd have gone for: > > find / -name xorg.conf > > I may be wrong (and nitpicking;) - but I think that your approach is > less fast, as 'find' does the file name matching /before/ it continues > searching - in opposite to just piping its output to grep and going on > with running down the file system hierarchy without any interruption. Interesting - and you're right. I just tried several successive searches for a few unique filenames in a directory tree (all files in the same directory, just in case the position made a difference). The first search took 6 minutes and clearly set up some cache of results, because subsequent searches were consistently: find . | grep filename : 20 seconds find . -name filename : 25 seconds That was consistent no matter whether the two filenames were the same, or different but still in the same directory, and no matter which command was run first. Nice observation. Antony. -- The more 'success' you get, the easier it is to be disappointed by not getting things. The only difference is that now no-one feels sorry for you. - Matt Haig Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse driver question
On Saturday 23 April 2022 at 21:11:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:07:57 -0700 Fred wrote: > > A previous post mentioned xorg.conf which doesn't appear to exist in > > Devuan Beowulf (AMD64). > > > > So, where do I go from here? > > Some time ago, in a similar situation, I had been successful with > > $ find / | grep xorg.conf Personally I'd have gone for: find / -name xorg.conf :) > Also worth a try: > > $ man 5 xorg.conf > libre Grüße, > Florian I still really like that greeting (if that's the right word for it in English). Antony. -- A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enought to retain interest, but long enough to cover the subject. - Celeste Headlee Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] information request
On Wednesday 20 April 2022 at 13:17:48, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where > I don't know how to resolve the conundrum. > > /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > returned an error code (1) > E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > > when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find > this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or > is seeing it poorly. > > When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message. > > How do I resolve this - - - - -please? I found myself in exactly this situation recently. I had a machine running Beowulf with all mounted file systems as LVM logical volumes. I created a duplicate LV of the root file system and rebooted from it, then performed an upgrade to Chimaera. I wasn't happy (for reasons that don't matter here) with the result, so I simply re-booted back into the untouched Beowulf root FS. Unfortunately I had neglected to consider the consequences of my having created a separate /var partition in the first place, which got used by the Chimaera upgrade, and was then thoroughly corrupted as far as Beowulf was concered (mainly due to /var/dpkg, I'm sure). It turned out that the "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found" message is highly misleading, and means that the script could not find the Python interpreter it expected to, not that the script itself could not be found. So, I think if you look at the first line of that script on your system, it will point to something like /usr/bin/python3, which is probably a symlink to something else in /usr/bin, which does not exist. I hope this should at least give you some pointers as to what it is you need to fix - get the correct version of Python3 installed. Good luck, Antony. -- "I think both KDE and Gnome suck - I'm quite unbiased in that, because I use a Mac." - Jason Isitt Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Latex install question
On Friday 11 March 2022 at 16:02:23, Fred wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to compile a program which expects that Latex is installed. What specific thing does it complain cannot be found when you try to compile it? I would then search for that thing in the contents of the various available packages to identify what you actually need. Antony. -- "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times - stop exaggerating!" Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Kernel Vulnerabilities or who understands this mess
On Wednesday 09 March 2022 at 15:04:09, Stuart Duckworth via Dng wrote: > On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 18:41, Ken Dibble wrote: > > > > The thing I found is that the default /etc/apt/sources.list has > > chimaera-updates and chimaera-security commented out. > > Is this really well thought out? > > I would think that most people would want those enabled. > > I have the same problem with Beowulf, the updates etc. commented out. When > I uncomment them I get an error when I try to update my applications. What error message do you get? Antony. -- 1960s: Let's build a network which can withstand a nuclear war! 1970s: Hm, that looks good, we'll run it on TCP/IPv4. 1980s: Nice, how about letting everyone join? 1990s: Hey, you can make money out of this! 2000s: Oh, you can lose it, too. 2010s: Alright, let's just plug absolutely everything into it. 2020s: Meh, my lightswitch is now connected to my lamp via China. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] "post mortem" (was: Popcorn)
On Sunday 20 February 2022 at 12:57:07, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > Dear list, > > I just want to share the two most important things I learned yesterday: > > 1.) I can "delete" files for which I do not have write permissions, if > the containing directory is writable by me: Indeed - this came as a surprise to me when I first found it. The explanation is remarkably simple: Write permissions on a *file* determine whether you can modify the *content* of the file. This has nothing to do with the *file name* (renaming or deleting). Write permissions on *the containing directory* determine whether you can delete or rename files in that contained directory. This is because a directory is essentially a file with a special type of content - names and pointers to other files (inodes). Antony. -- In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded. - Terry Pratchett Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Installing on a Raspberry or a Banana?
On Monday 07 February 2022 at 22:14:32, d...@d404.nl wrote: > On 07-02-2022 22:03, Antony Stone wrote: > > > > I want to install Devuan on a Raspberry Pi Zero W, and also on a Banana > > Pi R1. > Last time I needed an RPi image I used this link > https://arm-files.devuan.org/ Oh! Thanks - I didn't spot this linked from any of the "download" or "how to install" pages I looked at. Antony. -- "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times - stop exaggerating!" Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Installing on a Raspberry or a Banana?
Hi. I'm wondering what has happened to the "embedded" subdirectory which was present under Jessie and Ascii, but no longer seems to exist for Beowulf or Chimaera (or later). I want to install Devuan on a Raspberry Pi Zero W, and also on a Banana Pi R1. Are these still possible? Do I need to start from Ascii and then upgrade on the system itself? Thanks for any pointers. Antony. -- Numerous psychological studies over the years have demonstrated that the majority of people genuinely believe they are not like the majority of people. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stability will be achieved when you spend all of your time reporting on the nothing you did.
On Monday 07 February 2022 at 15:23:41, Ken Dibble wrote: > Application: firefox 78.15.0esr > > URL: about:telemetry#home-tab > > Page contains statement: Telemetry is collecting release data and upload > is disabled. > > URL :about:telemetry#histograms-tab > > Page contains seemingly endless amounts of collected data. > > If this data is supposedly not being uploaded by user preference, then why > in the H,E,double hockey sticks is so much of it being collected? Sorry, but in what way is this a Devuan question rather than a Firefox one? Antony. -- Was ist braun, liegt ins Gras, und raucht? Ein Kaminchen... Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Scheme/Lisp: was What is your take on finit?
On Tuesday 01 February 2022 at 18:01:56, Steve Litt wrote: > How can I acquire the proper mindset to do Scheme or other functional > languages the right way, so I can finally start functional programming > that doesn't have a C accent? From personal experience I suspect the only answer to that is to lose 35 to 45 years from your age. Antony. -- "Life is just a lot better if you feel you're having 10 [small] wins a day rather than a [big] win every 10 years or so." - Chris Hadfield, former skiing (and ski racing) instructor Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What is your take on finit?
On Tuesday 01 February 2022 at 17:55:30, Nikolaus Klepp via Dng wrote:
> Anno domini 2022 Tue, 1 Feb 11:44:37 -0500 Steve Litt scripsit:
> >
> > In the hands of anything but a very careful and security-knowledgeable
> > programmer, writing Python3 is more secure than writing C. You could
> > think of Python3 as C with seatbelts and airbags, and a heck of an
> > inefficient transmission.
>
> When it comes to this, I still prefer Scheme/Lisp seatbelts and airbags.
> But that's most likely because I have a grey beard and the first "high
> level" languages where indentation kicked my butt were fortran and cobol.
> Seeing that resurrected in python is like return of the living dead ...
I concur totally :)
I, too, have a grey beard (although still containing some dark brown), and I
have written Fortran, and also professionally had to read (although
fortunately not write) Cobol.
I learned Perl and Python at about the same time, in order to try to improve
the efficiency (both create-time and run-time) of my (previously just Bash)
scripts, and I find the indentation-fussiness of Python simply drives me up the
wall.
I regard indentation as something to make things easier to read for people.
Syntactical items such as 'if', 'else', '{' or ';' are for computers to work
out which bits of programming belong together.
Mind you, that said, I these days spend a fair amount of my professional time
writing Asterisk dial plans, whose language strongly reminds of programming in
Basic in the 1980s. It has "Goto" and "Gosub", but no real "If" except for
"GotoIf", and there is no concept at all of "{ ... }".
In the first versions of the language you even had to number the lines of your
code sequentially. Nowadays you can get away with numbering the first line '1'
and then using 'n' for all the rest (but you still have to put it in).
Antony.
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All generalisations are inaccurate.
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Re: [DNG] connecting to a chromebook (OT??)
On Wednesday 26 January 2022 at 15:24:35, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > If this is too far off topic - - - please advise. It's not on-topic, but I'm pretty sure people will try to advise :) > Just got myself a chromebook > My routher is at 192.168.1.1 and all my other hardware is visible there. > The chromebook says it is at 100.115.92.204/28. > > How did it get there? That range is reserved by IANA for certain types of connectivity providers; maybe yours is one of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4#Special-use_addresses > How is it connecting to and through the router? Well, *IS* it connecting through the router? Can you access Internet websites or log in to thing by SSH etc? What does "route -n" tell you? Antony. -- This space intentionally has nothing but text explaining why this space has nothing but text explaining that this space would otherwise have been left blank, and would otherwise have been left blank. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] problem with quemu dnsmasq vs unbound
On Friday 21 January 2022 at 12:55:04, al3xu5 via Dng wrote: > On my chimaera system, I am using unbound as a local recursive caching DNS > (not authoritative) server. More, I have uninstalled dnsmasq, as I do not > need it and want to avoid it interfering with unbound. > > But QEMU/KVM requires dnsmasq to start the 'default' virt network. Does it really "require" dnsmasq? I don't have a Chimaera system here running Qemu/KVM, but do I have a Beowulf one, and that doesn't run dnsmasq. What does "aptitude why dnsmasq" tell you on that machine? Antony. -- What do you call a dinosaur with only one eye? A Doyouthinkesaurus. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 17:24:46, Peter Duffy wrote: > On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that > Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - I > wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming > Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take > abstruse and difficult material and make it accessible. > > If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he didn't > mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' original > email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that linux wouldn't have > happened. I disagree with "it's reasonable to suppose that". Linus Torvalds was building a system for himself, partly (I believe) because he liked Unix but couldn't afford a Unix system of his own, and therefore he was of course going to build it using as much free (of charge) software as he could. That meant GNU. I think the Unix philosophy and design principles are beautiful, and formed the basis of an amazingly efficient system, but some of those principles are embodied in Linux and some are embodied in GNU (for example, devices as files, and pipes, in the first; and tools such as tr, cut, grep in the second), so these days we can't really separate the two - Linux is nothing without GNU (although the reverse is not true). Antony. -- Douglas was one of those writers who honourably failed to get anywhere with 'weekending'. It put a premium on people who could write things that lasted thirty seconds, and Douglas was incapable of writing a single sentence that lasted less than thirty seconds. - Geoffrey Perkins, about Douglas Adams Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 14:36:56, Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE via Dng wrote: > I am looking for a way to fake that I'm opening/reading the ads so the > magazine et all get paid but without having my screen actually littered > with ads and especially my ears not molested. That would be nifty. Sounds like a job for a proxy server. Get it to follow all links and download everything available; do not pass ads on to the client (perhaps substitute them for innocuous content, such as a 1x1 pixel instead of a full-size ad). https://www.privoxy.org/ perhaps. Antony. -- Archaeologists have found a previously-unknown dinosaur which seems to have had a very large vocabulary. They've named it The Saurus. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Question re: security/info sent with emails and more
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 13:32:39, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > When I look at the headers from my emails and sometimes available > in websites all this information about my system is included. a) all what information? b) which email client are you using? > Is there a way to block the sending of this particular information? i suspect the answer to my question (b) above will inform the answer to that. Antony. -- "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defence Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 12:30:20, Steve Litt wrote:
> Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:02:08 +0100
> >On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:58:32, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > > I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP?
> >
> > It's both: https://man.openbsd.org/ntpd
>
> Thanks Antony,
>
> After reading that page and man 5 ntpd.conf, I couldn't find out how to
> make sure it does NTP. Is it safe to assume that it does both SNTP and
> NTP out of the box, and the user of SNTP in no way compromises its use
> of NTP?
I'm sorry; I have no idea - I don't use openntpd myself; I use De{bi,vu}an's
"ntp" package, whose man page refers me to http://support.ntp.org
Antony.
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- Oscar Wilde
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 12:00:55, Steve Litt wrote: > Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:53:07 +0100 > > >That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a > >machine. > > I don't pay a lot of attention to aesthetic components unless they're > pointed out to me. I've probably installed Devuan about 8 times, all on > qemu VMs. My screenshot was from precisely that. Antony. -- You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using the telephone before the toilet. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:58:32, Steve Litt wrote: > I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP? It's both: https://man.openbsd.org/ntpd Antony. -- Most people would be a lot less bothered about what other people think of them if they only realised how seldom they do. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:39:25, Steve Litt wrote: > goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 > > >THIS is the official Devuan logo: > > > >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics > >/devuan-logo-1000x200.png > > Nice! > > SteveT You make it sound as though you have never installed Devuan... That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a machine. Antony. -- One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote: > goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 > > > >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the > English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the > point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two letters? That could be enough to make people think of them separately. Antony. -- She did not swoon, but she did get a look on her face that said 'This conversation is over', which Jack took as a sign he was going in the right direction. - Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:49:32, Blakov Niyt wrote: > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :) > > Both look WAY too much like Facebook. A change of background colour would be sufficient to fix that. Antony. -- Bill Gates has personally assured the Spanish Academy that he will never allow the upside-down question mark to disappear from Microsoft word-processing programs, which must be reassuring for millions of Spanish-speaking people, though just a piddling afterthought as far as he's concerned. - Lynne Truss, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly … > > What I thought of was > "Take your first step" > A little more dynamic. Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :) Antony. -- Software development can be quick, high quality, or low cost. The customer gets to pick any two out of three. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png > > I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. "take" Antony. -- "Can you keep a secret?" "Well, I shouldn't really tell you this, but... no." Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Website "motto"?
Hi. I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I went to the website to find out. I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there, and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the Devuan world to see? It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe not, after all". I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. -- Having been asked for a reference for this man, I can confirm that you will be very lucky indeed if you can get him to work for you. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video
On Sunday 16 January 2022 at 15:42:13, Maurice McCarthy via Dng wrote:
> Can you block ads on the firewall? On OpenBSD's pf firewall config
> file this pretty much wipes out all ads on youtube.
>
> table {8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4}
> table {2001:4860:4860:: 2001:4860:4860::8844}
> pass in quick to rdr-to 127.0.0.1
> pass in quick to rdr-to ::1
>
> Blocking Google's own DNS servers.
This needs to go where? On the client machine I want to see YouTube on, or on
my local caching recursive DNS server?
Are you blocking DNS lookups to Google, or are you saying that the ad content
itself comes from the same IP addresses (which I know are not "proper servers"
- it's a geo-diverse network of many many machines, but they could be content
servers as well as DNS)?
Assuming I do not use Google DNS servers in my client machine's resolv.conf (I
have a local recursive caching DNS server on my network, with a hints file
pointing at the root name servers), I don't believe that my client computer
would ever contact Google's DNS to resolve a machine's name, so I'm puzzled as
to what traffic actually needs to be blocked.
Thanks for any further info you can provide; it looks like a neat solution :)
Antony.
--
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but
rather when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Re: [DNG] bash / quote weirdness
On Friday 14 January 2022 at 00:15:28, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 12:45:09PM -0500, . via Dng wrote: > > The shell receives a series of tokens, and tries to interpret the first > > one as a command. In the double-quoted attempt above, it gets two > > tokens before the first pipe | --- > > > > 1) "cat -n" > > > > 2) /etc/fstab > > > > Of course, the system has no command named "cat -n". (And only a chaotic > > evil person would use a space in a command's name.) Something like > > "cat" "-n" /etc/fstab > > Maybe to keep anyone from executing a potentially dangerous command by > mistake? That doesn't sound like the standard *nix approach to me. Antony. -- "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." - Ken Olsen, President of Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC, later consumed by Compaq, later merged with HP) Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] bash / quote weirdness
On Thursday 13 January 2022 at 18:19:23, Benjamin Riefenstahl wrote: > Steve Litt writes: > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ "cat -n" /etc/fstab | cut -b 1-20 | head -n5 > > bash: cat -n: command not found > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ "cat -n /etc/fstab" | cut -b 1-20 | head -n5 > > bash: cat -n /etc/fstab: No such file or directory > > When there is a "/" in the command name, that is a file that has to exist by > that exact name (the file name can be relative, though). > > When there is no "/", then and only then the command is searched along > $PATH, and if it is not found there, the error message is different from the > other case. > > At least that is my explanation. This makes excellent sense and is a good explanation, I believe. Thanks, Antony. -- Anyone that's normal doesn't really achieve much. - Mark Blair, Australian rocket engineer Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] bash / quote weirdness
On Thursday 13 January 2022 at 15:07:22, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 05:45:08PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ cat -n /etc/fstab | cut -b 1-20 | head -n5 > > > > 1 UUID=730eaf92 > > 2 UUID=41abb5fd > > 3 UUID=96cfdfb3 > > 4 UUID=6F66-BF7 > > 5 tmpfs /tmp tm > > > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ "cat -n" /etc/fstab | cut -b 1-20 | head -n5 > > bash: cat -n: command not found > > > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ "cat -n /etc/fstab" | cut -b 1-20 | head -n5 > > bash: cat -n /etc/fstab: No such file or directory > > So if it has parameters it's a command, and if it diesn't it's just > a file or directory? It looks a good deal more complicated than that... $ "cat /etc/fstab" bash: cat /etc/fstab: No such file or directory $ "cat fstab" bash: cat fstab: command not found I have no idea what's really going on here. Antony. -- "It would appear we have reached the limits of what it is possible to achieve with computer technology, although one should be careful with such statements; they tend to sound pretty silly in five years." - John von Neumann (1949) Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] nftables firewall and fail2ban replacement.
On Thursday 13 January 2022 at 11:41:48, Didier Kryn wrote: > My experience/understanding of fail2ban is that it's intended > against attackers "smart" enough to periodically change their address. I don't care whether it's individual attackers who change their address, or multiple attackers each coming from one address; I use fail2ban to block anyone who's clearly trying to "get in" or at least abuse my services (email, SSH, SIP are th emost common I see) by trying some credentials, failing, and then trying again and failing sufficient times in a short period that it can't be someone who's supposed to get in. I have also (like Simon) written my own rule to scan the fail2ban log file itself, and add repeat offenders to a permanent block list, which also survives reboots. The one feature I'd like to see on fail2ban is multi-server communication, so that if one of my machines has a reason to block an address, it tells all my others to block that address as well. > For fix addresses, custom iptables rules was the "simple" way to go. Now > I guess it's custom nftables rules. Where do you get the list of fixed address to block? Antony. -- The more 'success' you get, the easier it is to be disappointed by not getting things. The only difference is that now no-one feels sorry for you. - Matt Haig Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] bash / quote weirdness
On Wednesday 12 January 2022 at 00:08:38, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > #!/bin/bash > for f in "$@" ; do > xcmd="unrar x" > $xcmd "$f" > done > > Can please somebody explain, why, if I double-quote the "$xcmd" > variable in line 4, the script fails with > > ./test.sh: line 4: unrar x: command not found Double-quoting turns the string into a single token, and therefore the parser sees the line as: token 1 = "unrar x" token 2 = "$f" Without the double quoting, it's: token 1 = "unrar" token 2 = "x" token 3 = "$f" "unrar" is a command which can be executed (in this case with a parameter of "x"), whereas "unrar x" is not a command. You can see much the same thing if you try: for f in one two three four do echo "$f" done for f in "one two" "three four" do echo "$f" done Antony. -- The lottery is a tax for people who can't do maths. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] xdg-desktop-portal
On Thursday 06 January 2022 at 22:30:58, Ken Dibble wrote: > Why is xdg-desktop-portal in a fresh install of Chimaera? I have a Chimaera machine here, freshly installed, without any graphical desktop environment - just a command-line network server - and xdg-desktop- portal is not installed. > It can be safely uninstalled, as it no devuan packages in the base > install require it, They may not REQUIRE it, but I wonder whether you are allowing packages to install RECOMMENDS as well? Try "aptitude why xdg-desktop-portal" and see whether something you do want to have on your machine has simply Recommended xdg-desktop-portal, and you ended up with it because you haven't told apt or aptitude not to do that sort of thing without your permission. I always put two files into /etc/apt/apt.conf.d before allowing much software to be installed: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/norecommendationsplease APT::Install-Recommends "false"; APT::Get::Install-Recommends "false"; /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/nosuggestionsplease APT::Install-Suggests "false"; APT::Get::Install-Suggests "false"; That way nothing gets installed unless I explicitly ask for it, or it's essential for something I asked for. Antony. -- Tinned food was developed for the British Navy in 1813. The tin opener was not invented until 1858. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Track process start / stop?
On Thursday 06 January 2022 at 12:04:48, Tomasz Torcz wrote: > On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 11:51:09AM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I'm wondering whether there is any way of getting a list or log file of > > processes which get started and terminated, independently of whether > > those processes themselves actually do any logging. > There is audit exactly for that purpose. Aha - thanks - I'll install the auditd package and see how I get on :) Antony. -- "Have you been drinking brake fluid again? I think you're addicted to the stuff." "No, no, it's alright - I can stop any time I want to." Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Track process start / stop?
Hi. I'm wondering whether there is any way of getting a list or log file of processes which get started and terminated, independently of whether those processes themselves actually do any logging. Suppose you're running "top". You see processes appear and disappear from the list as they start and end. Is there anything I can do to get a list of these processes logged somewhere (some of them are extremely transient, so you can be lucky to spot them in a "top" list at all)? Maybe it already exists somewhere, and I just need to either look in the rightplace under /var/log, or adjust the logging level of something? My initial interest in having this is to see that "well, this thing ran at that time, so it could be the cause of that thing which went wrong", or "no, I can't see this thing having run any time between then and now, so it's not surprising we don't see the results we expected". I'm wondering whether there's a logging option buried in whichever part of the system assigns and recovers process IDs as things get started and stopped, perhaps? Antony. -- This space intentionally has nothing but text explaining why this space has nothing but text explaining that this space would otherwise have been left blank, and would otherwise have been left blank. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to make non /usr merged dpgs (was: Re: merged /usr breakage)
On Wednesday 05 January 2022 at 11:24:08, k...@aspodata.se wrote:
> > $ ldd /sbin/init | grep /usr
> >
> > libpcre2-8.so.0 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpcre2-8.so.0
> > (0x7f737ba28000)
>
> So, how do I change the above package to install the lib in
> /lib//x86_64-linux-gnu instead ?
>
> I can get the source with:
> $ apt-get source libpcre2-8-0
> $ cd pcre2-10.36/debian
Make sure you cd to the version you just downloaded :)
> is it sufficient to change this file ?
> $ cat libpcre2-8-0.install
> debian/tmp/usr/lib/*/libpcre2-8.so.*
> $
No, I would expect it to be one of the ./configure options during the build
process.
> and if I manage to create the package, what name should I give it,
> something like libpcre2-8-0_nonusrmerge or what ?
Sure; call it what you like. From De{bi,vu}an's point of view what's
important is the "provides" section of the Debian build description.
Antony.
--
Douglas was one of those writers who honourably failed to get anywhere with
'weekending'. It put a premium on people who could write things that lasted
thirty seconds, and Douglas was incapable of writing a single sentence that
lasted less than thirty seconds.
- Geoffrey Perkins, about Douglas Adams
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Re: [DNG] Question about the text editor named medit.
On Tuesday 04 January 2022 at 13:18:07, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: > Dear All, > > Upgrading to chimeara removed medit, a text editor I used for writing > code and any other plain text document. I could not install it and it > seems it has been removed from the repository. Searching online for a > recently updated source tarball, I did not find any. It seems it has > been abandoned by its developer/s. I believe you are correct. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=939531 Antony. -- Archaeologists have found a previously-unknown dinosaur which seems to have had a very large vocabulary. They've named it The Saurus. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] request for assistance
On Monday 03 January 2022 at 13:37:43, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > Following the official directions: Not quite... > # apt update > Ign:1 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera InRelease It's called "chimaera" :) Antony. -- What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ryzen?
On Monday 27 December 2021 at 18:54:41, Antony Stone wrote: > Any opinions from personal experience, or pointers to reliable data, on the > topic would be appreciated :) Many thanks to all who replied, either on- or off-list, with comments and observations. Very helpful indeed. This is a very pleasant community of helpful people with a wide range of expertise. I wish you all the best for 2022. Antony. -- Warum können Seeräuber nicht den Umfang eines Kreises berechnen? Weil sie Piraten... Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] broken dependency chain for libgtk-3-dev ?
On Tuesday 28 December 2021 at 02:07:09, alphalpha--- via Dng wrote: > Hello > is anyone else having this problem or is it just me? > --- > --sudo apt-get install libgtk-3-dev > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > libatspi2.0-dev : Depends: libatspi2.0-0 (= 2.38.0-4) but 2.42.0-2~bpo11+1 > is to be installed > libepoxy-dev : Depends: libepoxy0 (= 1.5.5-1) but 1.5.8-1~bpo11+1 is to be > installed Here's what I get on a completely fresh Chimaera machine: root@tempo:~# apt-get install libgtk-3-dev ... detail snipped ... 0 upgraded, 143 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 73.1 MB of archives. After this operation, 300 MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n ... more detail snipped ... root@tempo:~# apt-cache policy libgtk-3-dev libgtk-3-dev: Installed: 3.24.24-4 Candidate: 3.24.24-4 Version table: *** 3.24.24-4 500 500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status root@tempo:~# aptitude show libepoxy-dev Package: libepoxy-dev Version: 1.5.5-1 Depends: libegl-dev, libepoxy0 (= 1.5.5-1), libgl-dev I would look at "Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages". Have you pinned any packages at particular versions under /etc/apt/preferences.d ? Antony. -- What's brown, lies in the grass, and smokes? A tiny fireplace. (Sorry this joke only really works in German). Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Ryzen?
Hi. Disclaimer: I generally don't like people saying things like "I read somewhere that..." without backing up what they're talking about, but... I'm sure I've read somewhere (and not especially recently) that Linux on AMD Ryzen CPUs can be unreliable and/or surprisingly poor performance. Can anyone comment on current (eg: Beowulf / Chimaera with standard kernels) operation on such machines? If it matters, I'm looking at desktop / tower / server motherboards and not laptops, and I don't care two hoots about graphics - this would be for networked machines accessed exclusively remotely. Any opinions from personal experience, or pointers to reliable data, on the topic would be appreciated :) Thanks, Antony. -- "Life is just a lot better if you feel you're having 10 [small] wins a day rather than a [big] win every 10 years or so." - Chris Hadfield, former skiing (and ski racing) instructor ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] openjdk-17 ?
On Friday 24 December 2021 at 21:00:10, hal wrote: > Hi All, > I'm trying to play Minecraft v1.18.1 but it needs java v17. It looks like > v11 is the only available version for Beowulf. I'd rather not download the > Debian .deb from oracle. Anyone know of a repo I can add for Beowulf? https://computingforgeeks.com/install-oracle-java-openjdk-on-debian-linux/ might be what you're looking for. Antony. -- If you ask a Yorkshireman whether he knows the German word for "egg", don't be surprised if he just smiles and says "Aye". Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] create .deb packages with alien
On Thursday 23 December 2021 at 23:11:41, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: > Until recently I have created .deb packages with alien I don't know if when > updating to chimaera it broke down because I haven't done it for a while > I don't know if someone on this list can help me or tell me where to ask > this question. > > I ask the question here since I use devuan I would start from https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/alien and check the links https://bugs.debian.org/alien and https://tracker.debian.org/alien Antony. -- Why is "dyslexia" so difficult to spell, and why can I never remember "aphasia" when I want to? Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Release dates
On Thursday 23 December 2021 at 04:54:24, Xenguy via Dng wrote: > From: "Antony Stone" ; Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 11:22:50 AM: > > https://www.devuan.org/os/releases has no dates on it, which seems > > odd, I think. > > > > Would it be possible to at least include the release dates for each > > version (and, as a nice-to-have, the planned or historical > > end-of-support dates too)? > > Thanks for that suggestion. It seemed to be a good idea, so we've tried > to improve the page along those lines. Lovely, thanks :) Antony. -- "Have you been drinking brake fluid again? I think you're addicted to the stuff." "No, no, it's alright - I can stop any time I want to." Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] SOLVED: Cron daily didn't run
On Tuesday 21 December 2021 at 19:35:47, Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > > On Tuesday 21 December 2021 at 13:53:48, Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > >> Yesterday I upgraded and then rebooted. > >> > >> how come cron daily didn't run? > The problem is a hard link to /etc/crontab; > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=647193 Huh - what a weird thing for cron to complain about. Oh well, at least the symlink seems like an acceptable workaround. Antony. -- Roses are red, Bacon is too, Poetry's hard, Bacon. with thanks to Claire Davison Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Help: Cron daily didn't run
On Tuesday 21 December 2021 at 13:53:48, Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > Hi all, > > Yesterday I upgraded and then rebooted. > > how come cron daily didn't run? No idea - when is it supposed to run? > I have an entry in crontab saying: > > 47 4 * * 7 root test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts > --report > /etc/cron.weekly ) That's cron.weekly, and will only run on Sundays. Antony. -- "It wouldn't be a good idea to talk about him behind his back in front of him." - murble Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Release dates
Hi. I just happened to be telling someone about Devuan as a way of running a Linux server without systemd, and I realised that https://www.devuan.org/os/releases has no dates on it, which seems odd, I think. Would it be possible to at least include the release dates for each version (and, as a nice-to-have, the planned or historical end-of-support dates too)? Antony. -- Most people are aware that the Universe is big. - Paul Davies, Professor of Theoretical Physics Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox
On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 16:32:48, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 18/12/2021 à 14:55, Antony Stone a écrit :
> >
> > So, you did "aptitude why libpulse0" and it said
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin".
> >
> > However, was that:
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Depends libpulse0" or
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends libpulse0" or
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Suggests libpulse0" ?
>
> depends.
Thanks.
> This is obvious.
It wasn't to me.
> the plugin needs at least to determine if PA is installed. libpulse0
> plays the same role as libsystemd0...
Okay, but I wanted a clear answer to the question. I never feel comfortable
making assumptions about partial information when I'm dealing with someone
else's system :)
> > Do you get the same list of packages from "aptitude purge libpulse0"?
>
> Here it is: to preserve the dependent packages, aptitude recommends
> to not do the requested action!
> (sda5)root@apcnb98:~# aptitude purge libpulse0
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
> libasyncns0{u} libpulse0{p}
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
...snip...
> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
>
> Keep the following packages at their current version:
> 1) libasyncns0 [0.8-6+b2 (now, stable)]
> 2) libpulse0 [14.2-2 (now, stable)]
>
> Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
Here, again, I would "follow the path" and reply "N" to find out what the next
possible resolution of the situation might be. Somewhere down the list you
might find what you're looking for.
However, I think Florian's suggestion is a far better avenue to pursue to
start with.
Antony.
--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox
On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 14:43:30, Didier Kryn wrote: > Aptitude why libpulse0 only lists xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, but it > misses a lot, including indirectly xfce4. Yes, this is in my opinion one of the shortcomings of "aptitude why" - it only goes "one level up", whereas I would like it to follow each dependency until it finds something that was installed manually, or is a system-essential component. So, you did "aptitude why libpulse0" and it said "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin". However, was that: "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Depends libpulse0" or "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends libpulse0" or "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Suggests libpulse0" ? The next step is to do "aptitude why xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin" and keep following things until you discover which package that you installed manually, or which essential system component, ultimately means you ended up with libpulse0. > apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which > includes gimp): > > The following packages will be REMOVED: > atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager* > geeqie* > gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins* > libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5* > libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161* > libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5* > libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3* > libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol* > qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4* > xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity* > 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Do you get the same list of packages from "aptitude purge libpulse0"? Antony. -- The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference, whereas in practice there is. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox
On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 11:22:10, Antony Stone wrote: > On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 11:14:59, Didier Kryn wrote: > > I noticed, looking for packages the name of which include just the > > > > string "pulse", that a few PA libraries are still installed and cannot > > be removed because a lot of packages have a dependency on them, such as > > xfce4, atril and even gimp! > > Please can you post the output of "aptitude show gimp" from the machine > where you have seen this? Another useful output to see would be "aptitude why XXX" where XXX is any of the PA libraries you say you have found which gimp etc. depends on. "why" will tell you which other packages either depend on, or recommend, the one you've asked about, and is a useful way to find out how (or indeed why) something got installed on your machine. > I cannot find any dependency between the two, although there is a > "suggested" for libasound2 on gimp. I haven't yet found a link between > libasound2 and pulseaudio, but even if there were, a suggestion is very > different from a dependency. > > > Antony. -- "The problem with television is that the people must sit and keep their eyes glued on a screen; the average American family hasn't time for it." - New York Times, following a demonstration at the 1939 World's Fair. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox
On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 11:14:59, Didier Kryn wrote: > I noticed, looking for packages the name of which include just the > string "pulse", that a few PA libraries are still installed and cannot > be removed because a lot of packages have a dependency on them, such as > xfce4, atril and even gimp! Please can you post the output of "aptitude show gimp" from the machine where you have seen this? I cannot find any dependency between the two, although there is a "suggested" for libasound2 on gimp. I haven't yet found a link between libasound2 and pulseaudio, but even if there were, a suggestion is very different from a dependency. Antony. -- "Tannenbaumschmuck" is a perfectly reasonable German word meaning Christmas tree decorations, and is not a quote from Linus Torvalds. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] exim paniclog /var/log/exim4/paniclog has non-zero size
On Wednesday 01 December 2021 at 00:00:00, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote: > I am getting e-mails like the one below all the time, now. > 2021-11-30 06:00:19 1momA3-00054k-DE ==m...@quixote.home R=local_user > T=mail_spool defer (-1): Tainted '/var/mail/marc' (file or directory name > for mail_spool transport) not permitted What do you get from: ls -al /var/mail/ Antony. -- In science, one tries to tell people in such a way as to be understood by everyone something that no-one ever knew before. In poetry, it is the exact opposite. - Paul Dirac Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On Friday 19 November 2021 at 12:14:31, Antony Stone wrote: > On Friday 19 November 2021 at 12:06:48, Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 19/11/2021 à 12:29, Peter Duffy a écrit : > > > I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number of > > > linux servers, and I proposed going to devuan. In response, I've had a > > > concern raised which took me by surprise. It was suggested that in the > > > future, it may not be possible to find staff who have the skills to > > > administer and manage servers running non-systemd or pre-systemd > > > distros/releases. > > > > > I suggest that professional admins haven't blinkers like horses and > > > > are supposed to be educated enough to be able to learn even a completely > > new OS. > > This is true, but it's not the techies who are the concern - it's the > employers - they're going to ask for "Red Hat admins", or ask interview > questions about managing systemd machines. > > You might be capable of learning all sorts of stuff, but an employer wants > you to know about it on day one and start doing the job. Sorry, I phrased that the wrong way round - as though an employer wants a systemd person and one of us applies for the job - but the same argument works the other way around, for a systemd-familiar person going for a sysvint or runit or openrc job. > Antony. -- "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defence Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On Friday 19 November 2021 at 12:06:48, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 19/11/2021 à 12:29, Peter Duffy a écrit : > > I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number of > > linux servers, and I proposed going to devuan. In response, I've had a > > concern raised which took me by surprise. It was suggested that in the > > future, it may not be possible to find staff who have the skills to > > administer and manage servers running non-systemd or pre-systemd > > distros/releases. > I suggest that professional admins haven't blinkers like horses and > are supposed to be educated enough to be able to learn even a completely > new OS. This is true, but it's not the techies who are the concern - it's the employers - they're going to ask for "Red Hat admins", or ask interview questions about managing systemd machines. You might be capable of learning all sorts of stuff, but an employer wants you to know about it on day one and start doing the job. Antony. -- I think broken pencils are pointless. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Chimaera unknown interwork interface
On Monday 25 October 2021 at 11:37:47, Haines Brown wrote: > With Beowulf, udev gave my wireless interface the name of a MAC > address rather than wlan0. I thought the renaming would appear again > with Chimaera, but not so. The wireless interface named wlan0. The > ethernet interface remains eth0 although I expected it to be given > its MAC address as well. > > My question, though, is a third interface that shows up and is not being > used. > > enxf8e43b46877cc flags=4099 mtu 1500 > ... > > The only devices are the motherboard ethernet and wireless chips. > What is this interface? That name looks very much like "enxf" followed by a MAC address 8e:43:b4:68:77:cc to me. The OUI 8e:43:b4 does not correspond to any registered manufacturer, and the hex digit e indicates that it is a locally-administered (ie: unregistered) unicast address (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address #Ranges_of_group_and_locally_administered_addresses for detail). So, my suspicion is that this does not correspond to any hardware device on your machine, but is some virtual interface created by the kernel, perhaps for a VPN, virtualisation support, or something like that. Suggestions: 1. Have a look at your loaded modules (lsmod) and see if anything sticks out as being "something to do with networking, but you didn't expect to have" 2. See whether the packet & byte counters for this interface ever go above zero, and try to work out what the machine was doing at the time to cause that. 3. Reboot and see whether the name stays the same - the prefix 8e:43:b4 might stick, but if the suffix 68:77:cc changes between reboots this is a guarantee that you're dealing with a pseudo / virtual device for some reason. Let us know if you find out for sure what it is :) Antony. -- I thought of going into banking, until I lost interest. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!
On Sunday 17 October 2021 at 17:55:56, Hendrik Boom wrote: > I've learned it's useful to repeat upgrades and dist-upgrandes and an > occasinoal aptitude until nothing happens AND there are no errors reported. I have found that apt is better for doing an upgrade whereas I prefer aptitude for installing pakcages in general. > I don't know why just repeating this should help; somehow, even with no > reported errors that I can see, the job often isn't done. Almost as if > the various apt-* commands don't do a complete job of analysing > dependencies and opportunities. Indeed - it must be an amazingly complex process, but one of the big reasons why I like DEB-based systems is because it is at least possible to upgrade from one release to another, generally with very little pain. Try that with an RPM system and you'll be glad you have a backup of /home, and you'll then just install an new system and remount the backup... Antony. -- If I needed my own advice, I wouldn't give it to others. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] 2FA via SIPP# to PC- HowTo? Under Devuan
On Friday 08 October 2021 at 13:31:08, ael via Dng wrote: > On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 09:28:08AM +1100, terryc wrote: > > Hello folks > > > > Since it is topical:2FA > > > > So any recommendations for software and cluebies? > > > > For 2FA, all I need is a text message receiver. Others may want the > > whole headset backend. Any clues/experience? > > In UK at least, some providers have an option to do 2FA using a > landline/SIP 'phone (with a PTSN gateway). Usually they sent a > automated voice message asking for a number displayed on a webpage > to be entered on the keypad. Others send the code directly via > an audio message instead of a text. No smartphone needed. > > Pressure the companies to do the same? In my opinion, all companies should (be able to) offer an alternative means of authentication, if only for reasons of disability / accessibility, where not all people are able to use a screen captcha / smartphone / telephone / etc. For example, in Germany, Deutsche Bank switched a few years ago from using One-Time Pad Transaction Authentication Numbers to presenting a QR-code style (it's different, but it's the same idea) image on the screen when you're performing a transaction, and you either need a smartphone with a camera and the DB app installed, to read the code and show you the numbers on the smartphone screen, which you then type into the web page you are doing the transaction on, or you do the same thing with a specialised device which you buy from DB for €15 instead of using the smartphone and app. Neither of these works effectively for a blind user, so there is an (almost totally un-advertised) alternative where they will send a text message instead (knowing that blind people can generally manage to receive and read a text message by one means or another). It's still not entirely ideal, but it is at least an alternative, but you have to really ask to find out that it even exists. Antony. -- "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." - Ken Olsen, President of Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC, later consumed by Compaq, later merged with HP) Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] 2FA via SIPP# to PC- HowTo? Under Devuan
On Friday 08 October 2021 at 00:28:08, terryc wrote: > Hello folks > > Since it is topical:2FA > > TL:DR how to do it? > So any recommendations for software and cluebies? > > For 2FA, all I need is a text message receiver. Others may want the > whole headset backend. Any clues/experience? I doubt that as a small-scale user there is any economic way of getting SMS in or out over TCP/IP. I do this for a customer of mine with thousands of mobile numbers, but they have an SMPP gateway to a service provider, which you just can't get for a single number. However, at home I have set up the following: Raspberry Pi with a USB 3G dongle (eg: Huawei E160E) containing a SIM card, with the Debian / Devuan / Raspbian package "smstools" installed on the Pi. A bash script which smstools calls whenever a text message arrives, which both sends an email with the SMS content in the body, and if the SMS is from a select list of senders, reads out the content using the festival text-to- speech facility. That way, when a text arrives from Deutsche Bank, for example, to confirm a transaction, the loudspeakers read out the 6-digit code and it can be entered into the transaction form I'm in the process of completing. I hope that gives you some clues / ideas / inspiration :) Antony. -- A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enought to retain interest, but long enough to cover the subject. - Celeste Headlee Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] unsubscribe
On Thursday 23 September 2021 at 00:30:55, Owen wrote: > Hi, > Tried multiple times to unsubscribe but don't know which address you are > sending this to on my domain. Look at the delivery headers? You sent this *from* o...@gonwanda.net so the fact that it arrived on the list and got accepted suggests that this is the address you are subscribed from. > Please could some admin unsubscribe *@gonwanda.net > > Reason being: the last 2 downloaded ISOs failed to boot into the installed > system. The one before it just crapped itself FUBAR. That sounds like the sort of reason for which I would *join* a list - so that I can ask some questions or get some help with whatever went wrong... :) Antony. -- BASIC is to computer languages what Roman numerals are to arithmetic. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] KUserFeedback
On Sunday 05 September 2021 at 14:46:34, tito via Dng wrote: > On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 13:25:58 +0200 Antony Stone wrote: > > > > You can say the same about network firewalls (or almost any security > > measure, in fact). Security is seldom aligned with convenience. > > Hi, > Yes and this makes security lucrative and unquestionable. Neither of those correlate with "not a good idea". > Could program xyz be subverted to do things that are not written in his > code or are unwanted then better fix xyz rather than add more code as > watchdog. Good idea to fix xyz (if you can), but also remember "security in depth". Antony. -- Most people have more than the average number of legs. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] KUserFeedback
On Sunday 05 September 2021 at 12:54:01, tito via Dng wrote: > On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 10:18:15 + g4sra wrote: > > > > How is Apparmor abusive ? > > I'm not very fond of apparmor for various reasons: > > 1) I experienced unexpected behavior of programs > silently failing to do something (log, run, etc) > because the apparmor profile was wrong/bugged > > 2) unless you study every code path in the program you want to > supervise the profiles used will not be safe but nobody really cares > (e.g. maintainer adds a profile that works with the default setup > of the distro (if it really works)) > > 3) if you use a customized setup of services or other programs > it is highly probable that the profiles will not work for you So, a bad configuration doesn't work as you would like. No surprise there, really. > Summary: >apparmor gets in the way of doing stuff... You can say the same about network firewalls (or almost any security measure, in fact). Security is seldom aligned with convenience. However, just as many people would not want to operate systems without a network firewall, and are prepared to configure it correctly for their needs, I think apparmor has a valuable place in enforcing security within one system; the price is that the system admin has to tell it to do the right job. Antony. -- Was ist braun, liegt ins Gras, und raucht? Ein Kaminchen... Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] gcc-doc
On Wednesday 01 September 2021 at 12:33:38, Antonio A. Rendina via Dng wrote: > Hi, > > I remember that there was a discussion about this, but I'm no able to > find it anymore. The question is how do I install the gcc-doc package? > > For what I understand Debian put it on non-free, but on Devuan a have > non-free and contrib enabled and I still don't find it. # apt-cache policy gcc-doc gcc-doc: Installed: (none) Candidate: 5:8.3.0-1~bpo10+1 Version table: 5:8.3.0-1~bpo10+1 100 100 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports/contrib amd64 Packages So, for whatever reason, it's been put into contrib in backports on Buster / Beowulf. Antony. -- f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n nx prgrmmng Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On Friday 20 August 2021 at 15:34:01, o1bigtenor wrote: > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 12:42 PM Antony Stone wrote: > > > > I didn't want to end up with Debian anyway - the only purpose was to be > > able to install FreeSwitch, find out how much of it really depended on > > systemd, and then work out how to get the rest of it working on Devuan. > > > > This way was quick, pretty easy, and very educational :) > > Hmm - - - very very interesting!! > > I was eyeing 'freeswitch' trying to get into an open source managed switch. > > Looking at buying a used switch and then installing whatevers to get what I > would like. Er, are we using the same definition of 'switch' here? This is not an ethernet switch, or even an ethernet switch management system. This is a telephony switch (Asterisk is a better-known example). > Is this what you're working on - - -sorta? > > Verry (sic) curious - - - please? I'm building something which can sit between an Asterisk server (which is great as a server, but pretty dumb when being a client, and registering to another server), so that I have the facility to put calls on hold, transfer them etc, *on the remote PBX* (not on Asterisk). In other words, providing the same call management functions you'd find on any standard hardware SIP telephone, and which it turns out that Asterisk (as a SIP client) cannot do. FreeSwitch is a software application which you install on a Linux machine, and it then talks SIP (and several other VoIP protocols) to telephones and service providers. https://freeswitch.com/ Assuming it works, I may one day get the time to migrate everything I've built in Asterisk (it is a very complicated system for a long-term customer) over to FreeSwitch and just do everything there, but for the time being it's just an "adaptation layer" to take calls generated by Asterisk and allow them to be managed once they're in progress. I think you're thinking of something else :) Antony. -- "It is easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of them by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all. In other words - and this is the rock solid principle on which the whole of the Corporation's Galaxy-wide success is founded - their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws." - Douglas Noel Adams Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 18:53:51, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 01:52:12PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > > > I've purged eudev and now I'm installing FreeSwitch :) > > > > Thanks for the pointer - looks like this will get me where I wanted to > > be. > > Do I understand that you didn't switch to Debian but just installed a > fake systemd for FreeSwitch to play with? Correct - although see my subsequent email saying that if you can avoid installing "systemd" and instead install "the package that depends on systemd", things are a lot simpler :) > Or did you find a way to switch from Devuan to Debian? No, this did what I wanted and it's a *far* neater solution. I didn't want to end up with Debian anyway - the only purpose was to be able to install FreeSwitch, find out how much of it really depended on systemd, and then work out how to get the rest of it working on Devuan. This way was quick, pretty easy, and very educational :) Antony. -- Why is "dyslexia" so difficult to spell, and why can I never remember "aphasia" when I want to? Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 13:22:06, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Install "equivs" and build a dummy package. > > Nik Once again, thank you indeed for introducing me to this tool. One tip that I'll pass on in case other people here find it useful: - unless the thing you want to install comprises only one package, and that package depends on systemd, don't create a dummy package of your own named "systemd" - it's likely to conflict with other things you already have installed in Devuan (for obvious reasons). - instead, try to identify the smallest part of what you're installing, which depends on systemd, and create a package named *that* Then you can install your dummy package, plus the rest of what you wanted in the first place, and the only bit missing is something (hopefully small) which really wanted systemd and therefore isn't needed anyway. In my case I was installing FreeSwitch, which you install as "freeswitch-meta- all", and which then installs 336 "real" packages, one of which is named "freeswitch-systemd". It turns out that even *that* "provides freeswitch-init", so you can use equivs to build a dummy package either called "freeswitch-init" or "freeswitch-systemd", and either way you can then install the whole of the rest of FreeSwitch without disrupting your nice systemd-free machine. The absolute irony of all this (where FreeSwitch is concerned) is that the source code for the very latest version still contains the sysvinit script which can you then copy into place and use to manage the application. They've simply made systemd a dependency for no good reason. Antony. -- If you were ploughing a field, which would you rather use - two strong oxen or 1024 chickens? - Seymour Cray, pioneer of supercomputing Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 13:42:28, Antony Stone wrote: > # dpkg -i systemd_250_all.deb > (Reading database ... 43385 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to unpack systemd_250_all.deb ... > Unpacking systemd (250) over (1.0) ... > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of systemd: > eudev (3.2.9-9~beowulf1) breaks systemd (>> 220) and is installed. > Version of systemd to be configured is 250. > > dpkg: error processing package systemd (--install): > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > Errors were encountered while processing: > systemd I panicked a bit too soon. I've purged eudev and now I'm installing FreeSwitch :) Thanks for the pointer - looks like this will get me where I wanted to be. Antony. -- Is it venison for dinner again? Oh deer. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 13:27:22, Antony Stone wrote: > On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 13:22:06, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > > Anno domini 2021 Thu, 19 Aug 13:18:16 +0200 Antony Stone scripsit: > > > freeswitch-systemd : Depends: systemd which is a virtual package and is > > > not provided by any available package > > > > Install "equivs" and build a dummy package. > > Ooh, interesting - never come across that before... > > I'll give it a go, sounds like a neat solution if it works :) Well, nice try, but: # dpkg -i systemd_1.0_all.deb (Reading database ... 43381 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to unpack systemd_1.0_all.deb ... Unpacking systemd (1.0) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of systemd: sysvinit-utils (2.93-8+devuan1) breaks systemd (<< 215) and is installed. Version of systemd to be configured is 1.0. sysv-rc (2.93-8+devuan1) breaks systemd (<< 215) and is installed. Version of systemd to be configured is 1.0. init-system-helpers (1.56+nmu1+devuan3) breaks systemd (<< 228) and is installed. Version of systemd to be configured is 1.0. ifupdown (0.8.35) breaks systemd (<< 228-3~) and is installed. Version of systemd to be configured is 1.0. dpkg: error processing package systemd (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Errors were encountered while processing: systemd If I rebuild it with a version number of 250: # dpkg -i systemd_250_all.deb (Reading database ... 43385 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to unpack systemd_250_all.deb ... Unpacking systemd (250) over (1.0) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of systemd: eudev (3.2.9-9~beowulf1) breaks systemd (>> 220) and is installed. Version of systemd to be configured is 250. dpkg: error processing package systemd (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Errors were encountered while processing: systemd So, it seems I need a version number higher than 228 and also lower than 220. Has anyone already done this equivs trick and found a way to make it work? Antony. -- If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we'd be so simple that we couldn't. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 13:22:06, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Anno domini 2021 Thu, 19 Aug 13:18:16 +0200 Antony Stone scripsit: > > > freeswitch-systemd : Depends: systemd which is a virtual package and is > > not provided by any available package > > Install "equivs" and build a dummy package. Ooh, interesting - never come across that before... I'll give it a go, sounds like a neat solution if it works :) Antony. -- "Black holes are where God divided by zero." - Steven Wright Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
Hi. This may seem like a strange question, but has anyone tried "migrating" a machine from Devuan to Debian (ie: not the normal way round we discuss it here)? I have a need to play with FreeSwitch, and the package installer tells me: freeswitch-systemd : Depends: systemd which is a virtual package and is not provided by any available package I have a *very* fast and convenient method of creating Devuan VMs to play with, whereas creating a Debian VM would involve going through the entire standard Debian installer process (time difference: ~1 minute vs. ~1 hour). So, is it worth my while trying: - create a Beowulf VM - add either Buster or (since it became officially stable last weekend) Bullseye to sources.list - doing an upgrade and/or a dist-upgrade Anyone tried it? Success? Failure? You must be mad? My intention is simply to get FreeSwitch installed, find out how much it really *does* depend on systemd, and see how feasible it is to take those bits out or replace the init scripts etc, and then run it on Devuan. Opinions and experiences most welcome :) Antony. -- Schrödinger's rule of data integrity: the condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Download a package, maybe a few, for a different architecture and a different release.
On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 01:01:09, Hendrik Boom wrote: > I need to download a package to install on a machine that is currently > air-gapped. Do you not even trust the connectivity to give it a proxy server? > I have to download an i386 package for chimaera on an AMD64 beowulf > machine. On the face of it, that's easy... but you know that :) > I'll be transferring that package by sneakernet, and then installing it > using dpkg.. > If it turns out to have dependencies, I'l have to repeat the process for > those dependencies. No chance of setting up a local apt-cacher, and allowing the chimaera machine to use that? Safer / more restricted than a general proxy, and if you have the requirement now, I bet you'll have it again in the future... :) > How do I go about doing the download? I don't think you're asking "how do I fetch packages using wget so I can then install them using dpkg". I'm assuming you're asking "how can I work out which dependent packages I should get at the same time, to make this whole process as painless as possible", so my suggestion is that you start from https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/packagename and look at everything labelled with "dep". Check on your chimaera machine whether these are installed, and then you know (at the first level) whether you need to install some of those first. The second level would be tricker and more tedious - finding out which packages your depended-upon packages depend on, but that's the beauty of apt(itude) compared to dpkg :) Since dpkg won't install something if it depends on something else which isn't already installed, you'll need to do things in sequence - install the depended-upon packages first, then whatever depends on them, but with any luck, this won't go more than 1 or 2 levels deep. If it does get more complicated than that, I really would suggest using https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=apt-cacher (either the original, or the -ng version) to "bridge your air gap" but only for package downloads. Regards, Antony. -- 2 days of trial and error can easily save you 5 minutes spent reading the manual. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] a how to question (project(s) related)
On Tuesday 17 August 2021 at 21:32:22, Steve Litt wrote: > After reading your message, I'll be investigating OpenZFS to add to my > data preservation arsenal. But I still say, for those things that must > last 50 years without continual attention, paper is the hot tip. I wonder - where do you keep your paper? http://hy.dehy.de/Flooding Antony. -- "I think both KDE and Gnome suck - I'm quite unbiased in that, because I use a Mac." - Jason Isitt Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Need openssl for this week's fetchmail vulnerabiltiy fix
On Saturday 07 August 2021 at 13:14:10, Curtis Maurand via Dng wrote: > On 8/7/21 7:05 AM, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > >> # apt-get source openssl > >> Reading package lists... Done > >> E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list > > > > Have you run apt-get update after having modified sources.list? That's a very good point. > >> # cat /etc/apt/sources.list > >> ## package repositories > >> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main > >> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main > >> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main > >> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main > >> > >> ## source repositories > >> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main > >> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main > >> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main > >> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main > > > > Your sources are correct, even overkill as pointed out by others. > > For the openssl sources, you only require: > > deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main > > Is it possible he needs openssl-dev? Just asking. I think that would be for packages which need to link to openssl and need header files etc, not for building the openssl package itself from source. Antony. -- I lay awake all night wondering where the sun went, and then it dawned on me. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Need openssl for this week's fetchmail vulnerabiltiy fix
On Saturday 07 August 2021 at 12:40:46, Antony Stone wrote: > On Saturday 07 August 2021 at 12:07:54, d...@d404.nl wrote: > > My sources.list looks like: > > > > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib > > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main contrib non-free > > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main contrib non-free > > > > deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib > > deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main contrib > > non-free deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main > > contrib non-free > > > > Maybe you should add contrib and/or non-free too. In my case it just > > works with apt-get source openssl > > Hm, I don't think that should be necessary: Sorry, I just quoted from an Ascii machine - just to be clear, here's the same thing from Beowulf: # apt-cache policy openssl openssl: Installed: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6 Candidate: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6 Version table: *** 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6 500 500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main amd64 Packages 500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status > So, my openssl is clearly installed from the "main" category. > > > Antony. -- "Linux is going to be part of the future. It's going to be like Unix was." - Peter Moore, Asia-Pacific general manager, Microsoft Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Need openssl for this week's fetchmail vulnerabiltiy fix
On Saturday 07 August 2021 at 12:07:54, d...@d404.nl wrote: > My sources.list looks like: > > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main contrib non-free > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main contrib non-free > > deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib > deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main contrib non-free > deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main contrib non-free > > Maybe you should add contrib and/or non-free too. In my case it just > works with apt-get source openssl Hm, I don't think that should be necessary: # apt-cache policy openssl openssl: Installed: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u3 Candidate: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u3 Version table: *** 1.1.0l-1~deb9u3 500 500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status So, my openssl is clearly installed from the "main" category. Antony. -- A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enought to retain interest, but long enough to cover the subject. - Celeste Headlee Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On Saturday 31 July 2021 at 12:02:47, Hendrik Boom wrote: > I like to use the safest programming language that is compatible with > the functions the program is to perform. Do you have a list of languages ranked by safety :) ? Antony. -- What makes you think I know what I'm talking about? I just have more O'Reilly books than most people. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
