Re: [DNG] simple-netaid for daedalus

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 10:43:25AM +0200, aitor wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> On 10/9/22 8:36, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> > I tried downloading and installing the packages one-by-one.
> > Had some dependency problems (no details, sorry it was a
> > while back.) Anyway not sure which packages are relevant,
> > for example do I need the cdk and vte3 versions?
> 
> Yes, you need to install libcdk5nc6, libvte-2.91-0 and libvte-2.91-common.
> The packages missing in devuan are here:
> 
> https://www.gnuinos.org/simple-netaid/

Thanks I'll try again. 
> 
> > Is it possible to contribute the packages to the Devuan or
> > Debian package repositories? It would be easier for
> > me to install. Otherwise, some docs would help, or I can
> > try manually installing the packages again and report
> > my failures;-)
> 
> I'm not a devuan caretaker, but, as far as I know, devuan just removes 
> systemd dependency from debian.
> About including simple-netaid in debian repo..., I don't know the way to go.

Well, for now I'll open a request-for-packaging bug with debian and
we can see if someone steps up. Can you provide a link
to the sources?

[...] 
> > Also, including the call to dhclient makes it easier
> > to use than, for example, wpa_gui.
> 
> The client is managed internally by ifupdown:
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/debian/ifupdown/-/blob/master/inet.defn
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/debian/ifupdown/-/blob/master/inet6.defn

I appreciate the explanations.

Regards,

Joel

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 

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Re: [DNG] simple-netaid for daedalus

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 02:17:56AM +0200, aitor wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 23:33:00 +0700
> Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
> 
> > Great that you're working on a new architecture for this program.
> > Since upgrading to daedalus, I noticed that my old sn didn't
> > work properly. I didn't investigate further but have been
> > looking to install a newer version.
> > 
> > Currently apt-cache search netaid shows:
> > 
> > simple-netaid-vte3 - Gtk3 container for the ncurses interface of simple 
> > netaid
> > snetaid - configuration daemon for simple-netaid.
> > 
> > Can I expect a complete package for devuan? I looked for
> > packages in gnuinos/pool but seemed to be
> > missing dependencies such as libnetaid0.
> 
> This weekend I uploaded the packages for daedalus. The newest versions are 
> packaged
> in quilt source format, and you can differentiate them by the suffix 
> -N+gnuinos5 in
> the debian version:
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/libp/libpstat/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/libp/libpstat/>
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/libu/libubox/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/libu/libubox/>
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/u/ubus/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/u/ubus/>
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/libn/libnetaid/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/libn/libnetaid/>
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/s/snetaid/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/s/snetaid/>
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/s/simple-netaid-cdk/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/s/simple-netaid-cdk/>
> 
> http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/s/simple-netaid-vte3/
> <http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/s/simple-netaid-vte3/>
> 
> 
> > I'm mainly interested the command line utility.
> 
> You can find some documentation in the website about the command line 
> utilities:
> 
> https://www.gnuinos.org/ubus/  <https://www.gnuinos.org/ubus/>
> 
> Feel free to ask :)

Hiya Aitor,

I tried downloading and installing the packages one-by-one.
Had some dependency problems (no details, sorry it was a
while back.) Anyway not sure which packages are relevant,
for example do I need the cdk and vte3 versions? 

Is it possible to contribute the packages to the Devuan or
Debian package repositories? It would be easier for
me to install. Otherwise, some docs would help, or I can
try manually installing the packages again and report
my failures ;-)

I like having the wifi SSIDs and passwords stored under
/etc/networks/wifi, where I can easily refer to them. 

Also, including the call to dhclient makes it easier
to use than, for example, wpa_gui.

> Thanks for your interest in simple-netaid !!

Thanks for providing and supporting it!

> Cheers,
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Dng mailing list
> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

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Re: [DNG] devuan.org signature problem

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Sep 08, 2022 at 08:53:01PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Thursday 08 September 2022 at 19:52:20, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> 
> > Hi list,
> > 
> > Upgrading a machine to daedalus, apt-get update returns this error:
> > 
> > W: GPG error: http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease: The
> > following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG BB23C00C61FC752C Devuan
> > Repository (Amprolla3 on Nemesis) 
> 
> > Is this easily resolved?
> 
> See https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220903.172703.1050aabb.en.html 
> and 
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220903.173401.2043605d.en.html

Thank you. This does the trick. 
 
> Antony.

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[DNG] devuan.org signature problem

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi list,

Upgrading a machine to daedalus, apt-get update returns this error:

W: GPG error: http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease: The following 
signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG BB23C00C61FC752C Devuan Repository 
(Amprolla3 on Nemesis) 
E: The repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease' is not 
signed.
N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore 
disabled by default.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration 
details.

Is this easily resolved?

I'd like to upgrade today, securely if possible. 

Thanks

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Re: [DNG] Mixer for alsa

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 10:20:23AM +0200, al3xu5 via Dng wrote:
> - other mixers for alsa? I do not know...

aumix has an ncurses interactive mode much simpler than
alsamixer, and also a command line mode.



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Re: [DNG] mutt attachment problem

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 02:56:08PM -0600, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:
> 164MB!  OMG!  Repeat after me.  "SMTP is not a file transport
> protocol."  The likelihood of being able to send a 164MB email message
> from one random system on the net to another random system on the net
> today is vanishingly small.  The default for most popular mail
> transport agents even today is 10MB max in size.  Though most sites
> have increased that to at least 50MB and some to 100MB due to people
> trying to send photos through email.  But 164MB?  I don't know of any
> site that allows such a large single email.  Gmail limits message size
> to 25MB https://support.google.com/a/answer/1366776?hl=en.
> 
> Since email is not a file transport protocol I suggest using a
> different method to transfer those files.  I am worthless for
> suggesting a large binary file drop method since I have my own web
> site and so I always use it for these things.  I just copy it there
> and pass along a URL.  But I know that not everyone maintains their
> own servers and associated web sites.
> 
> Perhaps some kind souls on the list might suggest possible ways to
> send large binary files?  That's the real problem and it needs a real
> solution.

There are various services for sending large files. Dropbox
and Wetransfer are the big ones, but increasingly complicated
to use. I use the following web service.

https://send.vis.ee/

The author also provides a CLI utility.

I can't comment on the security of these methods. 

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Re: [DNG] Be prepared for the fall of systemd

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, Aug 05, 2022 at 03:05:54PM +, jkinney23--- via Dng wrote:
>  On Thursday, August 4, 2022, 02:53:33 p.m. PDT, Bruce Perens via Dng 
>  wrote:
> > I haven't followed more modern experimental operating systems. Mostly you 
> > don't hear as much about them these days, I think a
> > lot of researchers use an existing Open Source OS as a base for some 
> > specific facility.
> 
> That's a little disheartening to hear. I have been trying to find a program 
> in Canada where I can go study operating systems. Is there no one anywhere 
> doing serious OS research anymore? ...I guess I will stay with Youtube and 
> the Devuan mailing list then :)

Jöchen Liedke, who died a few years ago, was doing some
interesting work: the L3 operating system, leading
to the L4 microkernel and hypervisor framework. 
Looks like Pistachio is the latest, without much
recent activity. 

https://l4ka.org/

The L4Linux project is still active:

https://l4linux.org/



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[DNG] simple-netaid for daedalus

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi Aitor,

Great that you're working on a new architecture for this program.

Since upgrading to daedalus, I noticed that my old sn didn't
work properly. I didn't investigate further but have been
looking to install a newer version.

Currently apt-cache search netaid shows:

simple-netaid-vte3 - Gtk3 container for the ncurses interface of simple netaid
snetaid - configuration daemon for simple-netaid.

Can I expect a complete package for devuan? I looked for
packages in gnuinos/pool but seemed to be
missing dependencies such as libnetaid0. 

I'm mainly interested the command line utility. 

Thanks

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Re: [DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply - SOLVED

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 08:54:06PM +0100, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 00:38:05 -1000
> Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
> 
> > The problem seemed to be with my wifi configuration. 
> > I'd been using the 2.4GHz radio. Perhaps the settings,
> > based on Apple recommendations, weren't the best. 
> > 
> > In any case, by enabling the 5GHz radio with AC mode,
> > WPA2-PSK and 80MHz signal width my BCM43228 associated with
> > the router and received an IP address. 
> > 
> > Thanks for your attention!
> 
> 
> Hallo Joel,
> 
> may I ask, how you managed to set your Wifi-Adapter to 5GHz? 

Hi Florian,

What I meant to say is that I enabled the 5
GHz radio in my router and connected to its ESSID (distinct
from the 2.4 GHz radio.)

With wpa_supplicant, I don't use the -D option so can't
comment on it. 

The iw dev|list|scan|info commands are very informative. 
Thanks. 

> After moving to a new place where I have to go wireless with my Desktop
> (WTH?!), yesterday I ran into a similar issue, with wpa_supplicant
> (both, with '-D wext' and with '-D nl80211') as well as with a pure
> '/etc/network/interfaces' config) [1]:
> 
> With both available USB-WiFi-Dongles (rtl8192cu and rt2800usb), I can
> see the devices 
> 
>   $ iw dev
>   $ iw list
> resp.
>   $ iw phy0 info
>   
> as well as the available networks
> 
>   $ iw wlan0 scan
> 
> but dhclient times out, when querying the "Fritzbox":
> 
>   No DHCPOFFERS received.
>   No working leases in persistent database - sleeping.
> 
> Installing NetworkManager via Android-AP and '/etc/network/interfaces',
> as an "emergency workaround", solved the issue for now. Interestingly, 
> 
>   $ iw dev
> 
> tells me, that I am not connected with 5GHz, as I first had assumed,
> but on
> 
>   channel 11 (2462 MHz), width: 20 MHz, center1: 2462 MHz
> 
> Now I'd be curious to see, if with 5Ghz I can go back to my plain old
> config - and how it compares to 2.4GHz in a wooden House.
> 
> Thank you and libre Grüße,
> Florian
> 
> 
> BTW: I was very surprised to find chimaera's wicd depending on
> networkmanager!
 
wpa_gui and netaid are alternatives to wicd.

cheers,

joel
 
> [1] https://cheatsheet.zwischenspeicher.info/2016/10/14-2017-02-05/
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply - SOLVED

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 09:40:15AM -1000, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> Hi wifi veterans,
> 
> I recently migrated my chimaera system to new hardware. The 
> wifi adapter is Broadcom BCM43228. Installing the
> firmware-b43-installer package got this adapter working
> normally. 
> 
> After doing an apt-get upgrade, I can get a a wifi
> connection, for example using wpa_gui, however dhclient just
> times out. 
> 
> Do you have any suggestions for how to troubleshoot this?

The problem seemed to be with my wifi configuration. 
I'd been using the 2.4GHz radio. Perhaps the settings,
based on Apple recommendations, weren't the best. 

In any case, by enabling the 5GHz radio with AC mode,
WPA2-PSK and 80MHz signal width my BCM43228 associated with
the router and received an IP address. 

Thanks for your attention!



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Re: [DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply

[Joel Roth via Dng]

I've resolved this problem with a workaround: I found a
TPLINK r8188eu based usb wifi adapter that I managed to get
working with little fuss. So I'm back to my regular wifi
setup script using netaid (below). I also blacklisted
the wl and b43 drivers which I won't be needing.

FWIW, the router is flashed with openwrt, and configured
as recommended by apple:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202068

#!/bin/sh
IF=wlan1
sudo netaid 5
sudo killall wpa_supplicant
sudo wpa_supplicant -B -i $IF -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf &
sleep 2
sudo ifdown $IF
sleep 1
sudo ifconfig $IF down 
sleep 1  
sudo netaid 4 bliss


cheers and thanks again for much helpful advice

joel

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Re: [DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi Greg,

On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 09:44:49PM -0700, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote:
> If I understand that you can associate with the access point through
> wpa_gui, what does iwconfig(8) say? If iwconfig says the adapter is
> associated with the access point, can you configure a static IP
> address valid on your network, and does that work, or do you still
> have no internet connection.

I got the wifi adapter to associate, confirmed by iwconfig.
No success with dhclient. I tried setting a static IP
address, but still no connectivity. 

Thanks for your suggestions!

> Greg
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Thanks to Aitor (twice), Steve, Gregory, Simon for your
informative suggestions. 

Associating my broadcom bcm43228 adapter with the wifi
router has been hit-and-miss, mostly miss with a rare,
inexplicable success. 

I tried the usual suspects - upgrading the system, 
removing and reinstalling/reinserting the drivers.

It's not worth beating my head much more over this dodgy
driver.  I can manage without wifi for now, at least until I
can find a linux-friend USB wifi dongle.

To respond to Steve, for 10+ years I've never had problems
with wpa_supplicant. Perhaps bugs in the wifi hardware or
FIRMWARE have caused your wpa_supplicant to hang. Anyway
you have a solution.

Again, thanks to all for your generous help.

joel

On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 09:21:54PM +0100, aitor wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> On 11/3/22 20:40, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> > Hi wifi veterans,
> > 
> > I recently migrated my chimaera system to new hardware. The
> > wifi adapter is Broadcom BCM43228. Installing the
> > firmware-b43-installer package got this adapter working
> > normally.
> > 
> > After doing an apt-get upgrade, I can get a a wifi
> > connection, for example using wpa_gui, however dhclient just
> > times out.
> > 
> > Do you have any suggestions for how to troubleshoot this?
> 
> Did you clear the ip addreses? I use the command below together with ifupdown:
> 
> #|ip addr flush dev wlan0|
> 
> Another way might be to force DHCP client release your ip:
> 
> # dhclient -r wlan0
> 
> # rm|/var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.wlan0.leases (!! Not sure about the name of the
> file storing the leases)|
> 
> # dhclient wlan0
> 
> This way you reacquire a fresh ip from the DHCP server.||
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Aitor.
> 

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Re: [DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi Aitor,

On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 09:21:54PM +0100, aitor wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> On 11/3/22 20:40, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> > Hi wifi veterans,
> > 
> > I recently migrated my chimaera system to new hardware. The
> > wifi adapter is Broadcom BCM43228. Installing the
> > firmware-b43-installer package got this adapter working
> > normally.
> > 
> > After doing an apt-get upgrade, I can get a a wifi
> > connection, for example using wpa_gui, however dhclient just
> > times out.
> > 
> > Do you have any suggestions for how to troubleshoot this?
> 
> Did you clear the ip addreses? I use the command below together with ifupdown:
> 
> #|ip addr flush dev wlan0|
> 
> Another way might be to force DHCP client release your ip:
> 
> # dhclient -r wlan0
> 
> # rm|/var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.wlan0.leases (!! Not sure about the name of the
> file storing the leases)|
> 
> # dhclient wlan0

> This way you reacquire a fresh ip from the DHCP server.||

Thank for these suggestions. I've been killing dhclient and
bringing down the interface, bringing it up and restarting
dhclient. which I think does mostly the same thing. I also
removed /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.wlan*

One way forward would be to restore my system to before
the recent upgrade. For the moment, I'm using a wired
connection. 

regards,

joel

> 
> HTH,
> 
> Aitor.
> 

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[DNG] Wifi problem - dhclient times out with no reply

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi wifi veterans,

I recently migrated my chimaera system to new hardware. The 
wifi adapter is Broadcom BCM43228. Installing the
firmware-b43-installer package got this adapter working
normally. 

After doing an apt-get upgrade, I can get a a wifi
connection, for example using wpa_gui, however dhclient just
times out. 

Do you have any suggestions for how to troubleshoot this?

Thanks to all,

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Re: [DNG] Another reason for why I use Devuan

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 10:52:43PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:41:59PM -0800, Syeed Ali wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:25:05 -1000
> > Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:55:49PM -0700, Keith Christian via Dng
> > > wrote:
> > > > This describes the machine ID:
> > > > 
> > > > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html
> > > 
> > > So a creation of the freedesktop folks. 
> > 
> > 
> > I like this quote:
> > 
> > > It should be considered "confidential", and must not be exposed in
> > > untrusted environments,
> > > ...
> 
> Just checked.  On my pure devuan system,
> there is no /etc/machine-id filre,
> but there is a /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
> 
> Should I worry?

FWIW on my system /etc/machine-id and /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
contain the same value. 

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Re: [DNG] Another reason for why I use Devuan

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:55:49PM -0700, Keith Christian via Dng wrote:
> This describes the machine ID:
> 
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedesktop.org
> %2Fsoftware%2Fsystemd%2Fman%2Fmachine-id.html

So a creation of the freedesktop folks. 


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Re: [DNG] Another reason for why I use Devuan

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 03:03:54PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1958377/
> comments/13
> 
> as in Systemd does not configure the network if the machine has no 
> machine-id.
> 
> You cannot make this up, or can you?

Any software project will have wrinkles, the
bigger the project the more the edge cases. 

This is a giant project. 

> Thanks,
> -- 
> Martin
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Thank you for this introduction. 

On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 02:14:37PM +, Simon wrote:
> Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
> 
> > My problem is connecting via dhcp over ethernet.  On IRC
> > I was advised to try
> > 
> > ping ff02::1%eth1
> > 
> > which fails to get a response, indicating IPv6 is not enabled in my client.
> > 
> > I tried setting "iface eth1 inet6 dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, 
> > then "ifup eth1".  This fails with 
> > 
> > no link-local IPv6 address for eth1 
> > 
> > References suggest that "ifconfig eth1 up" or "ip link set dev eth1 up"
> > will trigger the kernel to assign an IPv6 address. Since
> > this is not happening, I'm asking the wisdom of the list VUAs
> > how to enable IPv6 for this port. 
> 
> You don’t actually need DHCP to configure IPv6.
> By default, I think every major OS these days enables IPv6. When an interface 
> connects (link comes up), the device will solicit for routers on the network 
> - both actively by sending RS (Router Solicit) packets to trigger routers to 
> send RA packets, and passively by looking for RA (Router Advertisement) 
> packets that are sent periodically anyway.
> Each RA lists all the network prefixes (IPv6 prefix is roughly analogous to 
> subnet number in IPv4) the router supports on that interface. Note that an 
> arbitrary number of prefixes are supported, and devices can have "many" IPv6 
> addresses. Each prefix is accompanied by a number of flags - the key ones 
> here being whether autoconfig is supported (A flag) and whether the prefix is 
> managed (M flag), defaults normally being A set and M clear.
> 
> With A set and M clear, devices will use SLAAC (StateLess Address Auto 
> Configuration) to create at least one address for itself in that prefix - 
> these days by randomly generating an address in a 64 bit range. For partly 
> historical, and partly philosophical reasons, SLAAC only works with 64 bit 
> prefix lengths, leaving 64 bits for the host address part. The device can 
> create multiple addresses, and change then as often as it likes.
> This roughly analogous to the address autoconfig feature in IPv4 using the 
> 169.254/16 address ranges - except that with IPv6 the addresses are useful 
> for more than just the local network.
> 
> NOTE: You will often see comments along the lines of “but the address is just 
> an extension of the MAC address meaning ...”. This was an early idea, but for 
> privacy reasons was dropped a long time ago and AFAIK no modern OS uses 
> it by default - whether they can be configured to use it I don’t know, but it 
> was deprecated a long time ago and it is strongly recommended not to use it.
> 
> So that’s the most common network setup : each router (more than one can be 
> present) will advertise prefixes to be used on the network, and devices will 
> automatically configure their own addresses. This will generally work out of 
> the box once there is a router with the right IPv6 support connected to an 
> ISP that provides IPv6 support in their network.
> 
> Note that none of this involves DHCPv6 - and in fact, adding a DHCPv6 service 
> to the network won’t have any effect. For this to work, the (IIRC) M flag 
> needs to be set in at least one RA. This signals to the clients that this ia 
> a managed network and they should use DHCPv6 to obtain some information. DHCP 
> doesn’t inform of IPv6 prefixes - these are still the preserve of RAs. 
> Setting the M flag for a prefix will involve configuration on the router.
> 
> For completeness, another new concept in IPv6 is whether a prefix is “on 
> link”. In simple terms, if the prefix is on-link then a device can talk 
> directly to another device using addresses in that prefix - as is normally 
> the case with ethernet networks. However, there are some networks (wireless 
> networks with client isolation, some “locked down” secure networks, ...) 
> where this is not the case - where an intermediary (router) is needed to get 
> packets from one device to another - having the prefix flagged as no on-link 
> will trigger devices to send packets via the router even for addresses that 
> are in the same prefix.
> 
> 
> Given the number of major ISPs (e.g. Sky and BT in the UK) who have turned on 
> IPv6, this autoconfig makes a huge proportion of users IPv6 enabled - and 
> mostly they’ve never noticed !
> 
> 
> And a note about Android. For mobile use, prefixes can change frequently as 
> the phone moves about. DHCP isn’t good at handling this, whereas it’s easy to 
> send out an RA with a new prefix and deprecating the old one by setting the 
> lifetime to a very short value. 
> Apart from the 

Re: [DNG] Security implications of IPv4 vs IPv6 (was Re: Configuring ethernet port for IPv6)

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 12:36:46AM +1100, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote:

> > On 29 Jan 2022, at 18:22, Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
> > 
> > On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 01:22:57AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > 
> >> Joel Roth said on Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:19:35 -1000

> >>> IPv6 does have some security features lacking in IPv4.
> >> 
> >> I didn't know that. What are some of those features and where can I
> >> find out more about them?
> > 
> > A naive search turns up this article that seems credible: 
> > 
> > https://www.avast.com/c-ipv4-vs-ipv6-addresses
> > 
> > The site appears to belong to a VPN provider. 
 
> Avast? Last I heard they did antivirus software for Windows. Might have 
> changed business focus since I last heard years ago but a quick look on their 
> website shows they still offer the AV. I guess every AV vendor is jumping on 
> the VPN wagon these days. I hear Norton now bundles crypto mining with their 
> AV, taking a share of your profits.

Well I did say it was a *naive* search. I'm actually proud of my
ignorance of everything Windows. Drifting off topic, I can't
imaging what kind of team would have come up with
hover-click to confuse users with unintended actions. 

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[DNG] Security implications of IPv4 vs IPv6 (was Re: Configuring ethernet port for IPv6)

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 01:22:57AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
[redirecting to list, I think that's what you intended]

> Joel Roth said on Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:19:35 -1000

> >> On my next router, (probably OpenBSD/pf), I'm going to block all
> >> IPV6. I enjoy that the badguys have to jump through one more hoop
> >> (NAT) to hit me where it hurts.   
> >
> >IPv6 does have some security features lacking in IPv4.
> 
> I didn't know that. What are some of those features and where can I
> find out more about them?

A naive search turns up this article that seems credible: 

https://www.avast.com/c-ipv4-vs-ipv6-addresses

The site appears to belong to a VPN provider. 

> Thanks,

 
> Steve
> 
> Steve Litt 
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
> 

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[DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6

[Joel Roth via Dng]

-- 
Joel Roth
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,

Long time...

> On my next router, (probably OpenBSD/pf), I'm going to block all IPV6.
> I enjoy that the badguys have to jump through one more hoop (NAT) to
> hit me where it hurts. 

IPv6 does have some security features lacking in IPv4.

> I'm not an authority on firewalls and routers, but I'm going to try
> hard to pass only a very few IP addresses on my LAN, and put the Wifi
> on a third network card.

Hopefully someone is researching this for us. 

> In my opinion, IOT (the Internet Of Things) is for the most part an
> abomination. I don't want my thermostat on the same subnet as my LAN.

I was thinking of an IOT thermometer. 

Don't you want to hear something like "Hi I'm your smart
thermometer. You're temperature is a little high today. You might
have a cold, or worse. Have you been vaccinated yet? I
recommend you stay at home till you feel better."

> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6 - broken hardware revealed by dmesg

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 05:50:37PM -0700, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 12:40:36PM -1000, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 12:05:06PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:
> > > Joel Roth wrote:
> > > > Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > Is there anything different in the dmesg(1) output for eth1 than
> > > > > for your other interfaces?
> > > >
> > > > bingo:
> > > >
> > > > [467072.902423] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
> > > >...
> > > > This is a used Thinkpad pad, recently purchased.
> > > > Fortunately usb-ethernet adapters are easily available.
> 
> I'm not sure, but is it possible your ethernet chip is one which
> requires firmware from the firmware-misc-nonfree package?

This is an older thinkpad, I think it's unlikely to need
extra firmware. When I try to install firmware-misc-nonfree I'm told:

Package firmware-misc-nonfree is not available, but is referred to by another 
package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

I do have firmware-linux-nonfree installed. 


> Greg
>  
> 
> -- 
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> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your 
> contacts.
> 
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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6 - broken hardware revealed by dmesg

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 12:05:06PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:
> Joel Roth wrote:
> > Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > Is there anything different in the dmesg(1) output for eth1 than
> > > for your other interfaces?
> >
> > bingo:
> >
> > [467072.902423] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
> >...
> > This is a used Thinkpad pad, recently purchased.
> > Fortunately usb-ethernet adapters are easily available.
> 
> This is very odd.  Thinkpads have been very robust and reliable and
> used so much that they have been somewhat of a reference platform for
> many years.  The e1000 driver family is very commonly used and is in
> the kernel main.
> 
> I suggest booting a live boot image on your Thinkpad and seeing if the
> wired interface works using one of those.  That would eliminate
> something corrupted in your current installation.  It's easy to do.
> It is a good quick second opinion on the network hardware.
> 
> Also, how did you install this system?  Did you use a "netinstall"
> image originally?  Using the wired ethernet or WiFi?  Because if you
> installed using wired ethernet (the most typical way I install) then
> at install time the netinstall image was working okay with your wired
> ethernet.
> 
> Booting a netinstall image in "Rescue Mode" (under the advanced
> options) would also be a safe way to test if the hardware is working
> under a live boot system.  And if this is a recent install using a
> netinstall image then it's one you already have available.

Great suggestions. I think I've benefitted from your advice
several times of the years, directly and from reading your posts. 

I booted from a different kernel, same result from ip addr
show eth1.

2: eth1:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state 
DOWN group default qlen 1000
link/ether 28:d2:44:1a:e0:ca brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff

I'll try with a live CD, or USB drive. I've got a hard 
drive in the CD bay at the moment.  The notebook is new used, but
the system has been the same (with upgrades) for
probably 15 years. I haven't done a fresh installation 
for a long time (except as a VM). 

What a great resource you are, oh bearded ones!


> Bob



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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6 - broken hardware revealed by dmesg

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 04:38:37PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> redirecting back to the list.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 12:44:55PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> > Thank you for the response, Gregory. 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 03:33:01PM -0700, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 11:37:52AM -1000, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> > > > It seems that my new router uses IPv6. Perhaps that means
> > > > the ISP does so as well.
> > > 
> > > Just because a router uses IPv6, doesn't necessarily mean the ISP
> > > supports it.
> >  
> > > > My problem is connecting via dhcp over ethernet.  On IRC
> > > > I was advised to try
> > > > 
> > > > ping ff02::1%eth1
> >  
> > > Just to make sure, the interface connected to your router is in fact
> > > eth1, and not eth0, right?
> >  
> > Yes, it's eth1.
> >  
> > > > which fails to get a response, indicating IPv6 is not enabled in my 
> > > > client.
> > > 
> > > Posting the actual output might help.
> >  
> > Usually ping (with no options) periodically returns a line
> > with the time taken for the round trip. In this instance,
> > one line beginning with PING and nothing more. 
> > 
> > > > I tried setting "iface eth1 inet6 dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, 
> > > > then "ifup eth1".  This fails with 
> > > > 
> > > > no link-local IPv6 address for eth1 
> > > 
> > > Even if your interface isn't able to configure a global IPv6 address,
> > > it should still get a link local address starting with fe80.
> > 
> > This is the problem. I don't have a link local address:
> > 
> > $ ifconfig eth1
> > eth1: flags=4099  mtu 1500
> > ether 28:d2:44:1a:e0:ca  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
> > RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
> > RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
> > TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
> > TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
> > device interrupt 20  memory 0xf250-f252 
> 
> You don't seem to have an IPv4 address, even for obtaining a dhcp
> lease. Is this what you expect? If not, then the problem would seem to
> be wider in scope than just IPv6.
> 
> > 
> > > Also, before modifying /etc/network/interfaces, I would advise doing
> > > ifdown eth1, modifying the file, and then ifup eth1. Instead of inet6
> > > dhcp, I would suggest:
> > > 
> > > iface eth1 inet6 auto
> > > 
> > > My understanding is this should use either dhcp6, or RA/NDP to
> > > configure it.
> > 
> > > What does the following output:
> > > 
> > > cat /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/disable_ipv6
> > > cat /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/default/disable_ipv6
> > > cat /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth1/disable_ipv6
> > 
> > All zeroes. 
> > 
> 
> Do you have network-manager or the like installed which could be
> trying to configure the interface on its own?
> 
> Is there anything
> different in the dmesg(1) output for eth1 than for your other
> interfaces?

bingo: 

[467072.085551] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: PHY Wakeup cause - Unicast Packet
[467072.902423] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
[467081.10] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
[467089.669913] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
[467090.624833] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth1: link is not ready
[467097.725663] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: PHY Wakeup cause - Unicast Packet
[467098.549348] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
[467243.278267] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
[467243.588770] e1000e: eth1 NIC Link is Down
[467248.986061] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error
[467249.940380] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth1: link is not ready
[467255.211266] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Could not acquire PHY
[467255.211285] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: PHY Wakeup cause - Unicast Packet
[467255.918047] e1000e :00:19.0 eth1: Hardware Error

This is a used Thinkpad pad, recently purchased.
Fortunately usb-ethernet adapters are easily available. 

> Since ifconfig is depricated, what does:
> 
> ip address show eth1
> 
> give you?

2: eth1:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state 
DOWN group default qlen 1000
link/ether 28:d2:44:1a:e0:ca brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff

> What does:
> 
> cat /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eth1/autoconf

1

> output?
> Other than that, that's all I can think of at the moment.

Thanks, Greg, you've been very helpful. 

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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Oops, 

I missed a negative. 

I can add that I have **no** problem connecting to the router via wifi.
ifconfig wlan2 shows both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. 

Thank you for you attention!

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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 11:37:52AM -1000, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> Hi veteran admins,
> 
> It seems that my new router uses IPv6. Perhaps that means
> the ISP does so as well.
> 
> My problem is connecting via dhcp over ethernet.  On IRC
> I was advised to try
> 
> ping ff02::1%eth1
> 
> which fails to get a response, indicating IPv6 is not enabled in my client.
> 
> I tried setting "iface eth1 inet6 dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, 
> then "ifup eth1".  This fails with 
> 
> no link-local IPv6 address for eth1 
> 
> References suggest that "ifconfig eth1 up" or "ip link set dev eth1 up"
> will trigger the kernel to assign an IPv6 address. Since
> this is not happening, I'm asking the wisdom of the list VUAs
> how to enable IPv6 for this port. 
> 
> Thanks in advance, 

I can add that I have problem connecting to the router via wifi.
ifconfig wlan2 shows both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. 

grep CONFIG_IPV6 /boot/config-$(uname -r) shows that all the
IPv6 drivers are compiled into the kernel. 

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[DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi veteran admins,

It seems that my new router uses IPv6. Perhaps that means
the ISP does so as well.

My problem is connecting via dhcp over ethernet.  On IRC
I was advised to try

ping ff02::1%eth1

which fails to get a response, indicating IPv6 is not enabled in my client.

I tried setting "iface eth1 inet6 dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, 
then "ifup eth1".  This fails with 

no link-local IPv6 address for eth1 

References suggest that "ifconfig eth1 up" or "ip link set dev eth1 up"
will trigger the kernel to assign an IPv6 address. Since
this is not happening, I'm asking the wisdom of the list VUAs
how to enable IPv6 for this port. 

Thanks in advance, 


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[DNG] Thank you, Devuan

[Joel Roth via Dng]

I just installed chimaera on a 21" 2008 Intel
iMac that will now be donated to a small school. 

So thank you Devuan team and community!

It would have been e-waste as it's no longer possible to
refresh the OS (El Capitan, the highest version that could
be installed) because Apple no longer provides support for
refreshing it from the recovery partition. I found this out
the hard way: The recovery process bricked the still-working
El Capitan after Apple's repository reported, "no packages
available". (I had thought refreshing the OS would be a good
way to fix a disk error that DiskUtility reported but could
not fix.)

I had installed the rEfind boot loader, which creates a menu
of all bootable partitions, to test the devuan ISO. The
subsequent install process didn't overwrite the boot sector
but put grub on the partition's boot record.

Thanks to the Debian project and Devuan, this valuable
hardware can have a new life. I'm grateful!

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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:08:48PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Just in case sombody missed it:
> 
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/nasty-linux-systemd-security-bug-revealed/
> 
> 
> "Systemd, the Linux system and service manager that has largely replaced init 
> as the master Linux startup and control program, has always had its critics. 
> Now, with Qualys's discovery of a new systemd security bug, systemd will have 
> fewer friends. Successful exploitation of this newest vulnerability enables 
> any unprivileged user to cause a denial of service via a kernel panic. 

> In a phrase, "that's bad, that's really bad." 

It seems that this is the tip of what will be be a very large iceberg. 


> [...]
> "
> 
> Nik
> 
> -- 
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing 
> with the NSA, CIA ...
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Re: [DNG] How to firewall on Devuan?

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 04:00:00PM +0200, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote:
> So even though Beowuulf seems to come with iptables, I would
> recommend removing iptables and installing with nft.

My experience was that firewalls such as arno and ufw don't
work property under nft.


> https://wiki.nftables.org/
> 
> https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Quick_reference-nftables_in_10_minutes
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Re: [DNG] How to turn off the firewall

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi Steve,

I use this to remove all rules:

iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT
iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT
iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
iptables -t nat -F
iptables -t mangle -F
iptables -F
iptables -X

I can't speak for the provenance, but afterwards
iptables -n -L, shows ACCEPT for INPUT, OUTPUT and FORWARD,
with no other rules.


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Re: [DNG] vdev (was: Re: if2mac init.d service for persistent network interface names)

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Thanks for digging into this, Aitor!

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, aitor wrote:
> Images of gnuinos openbox with vdev for testing purposes are available at:
> 
> https://www.gnuinos.org/Beowulf/ 

I tried out the ISO under qemu. Could boot to rescue mode,
but hung up booting to live image at
vmw_driver_load.cold.23 [vmwgfx] ERROR: hardware has no pitchlock

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Re: [DNG] vdev (was: Re: if2mac init.d service for persistent network interface names)

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi Aitor,

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020, aitor wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> 
> On 24/12/20 7:40, Joel Roth wrote:
> > Thanks for looking into this! I, for one, don't need
> > to run KDE or Gnome.
> 
> I've been working on vdev during these days, and i'm thinking on a possible
> new approach for it. For instance:
> 
> 1) We should consider whether or not a separate ABI (libudev-compat) is
> required since the apparition
> of libeudev1 (libudev1 without systemd), or leave instead this other library
> (compatible  with libeudev1, or
> better said, depending on it) for new features added by Jude Nelson and
> contributors (say the whole libudev-fs.c
> or some add-ons like "udev_monitor *udev_monitor_new_from_filesystem" in
> libudev-monitor.c, non existent
> in libeudev1)
> 
> 2) We should also consider the inclusion of a hardware database management 
> tool, call udevadm, vdevadm or
> whatever you want. I propose this addition due to the slow boot of the
> system caused by the lack of  this tool,
> i guess. In the case of eudev, the hardware database is compiled into a
> binary and only the binary is used at
> runtime. I should however add that yesterday I handled vdev with runit and
> the boot process was very quick,
> but there is a drawback here: you need to wait for the hardware to be
> detected. In a console session I needed
> to wait for the detection of wlan0 (even eth0 was detected inmediately); in
> a X session I couldn't login because
> neither the mouse nor the keyboard didn't respond.

While I don't understand your post completely, I agree with
your point that udev-compat need not be a high priority as
libeudev meets this need. I understand that without
udev-compat, vdev wouldn't be able to serve some heavyweight
desktop environments.

I think that's okay, because Probably most potential users
of vdev will be using a lightweight window manager or even
just console.  I think serving that group will be a good
place to start. 

Also, while a database for fast startup would be great,
enabling it to work at all would be a good first step.

Eventually some sort of write-up about vdev comparing it to
mdev, udev, eudev might help getting the word out. (I'd 
help with that.)

Thanks for all your work!

Joel

> Cheers,
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [DNG] if2mac init.d service for persistent network interface names

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020, Didier Kryn wrote:
>     Shouldn't we consider using Mdev instead of Eudev? You, as a
> distinguished contributor to Busybox, should have an opinion on this.

And what about Jude Nelson's vdev? I, for one, would donate
to support development of these lightweight udev alternatives. 

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Re: [DNG] How to mount NTFS

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Haines Brown wrote:
> Cron automatiically backs up some partitions on my HD by means of a 
> script. Not sure  of the size of thse backupos, but perhaps 300 Mb.
> 
> I have been doing the backups to an external WD USB drive, and they 
> took around 3 hours. However, I became nervous about the condition of 
> the drive which is quite old, and so bought a 2 Tb replacement. Now 
> the back up takes 10 hours.
> 
> The only thing that I can think of that might account for its being 
> slow is that my old WD drive was formatted ext4, but I thought best to 
> leave my new drive with NTFS.

You can create a large file in the drive, format it as
ext4 and mount it. That will avoid the speed cost of NTFS. 

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Re: [DNG] my experience upgrading to NFT

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Thomas Groman via Dng wrote:
> I upgraded one of my larger and more complex servers from ASCII to
> Beowulf. Switching to NFT was very easy after the upgrade. Just create
> the rules, (have flush have the beginning), remove the iptables
> if-pre-up hook if you made one, copy the example init script from
> /usr/share/doc/nftables/example, set it executable, and rc-update add
> nftables default. then openrc to bring the system to the new defined
> default runlevel

I upgraded to beowulf without reading the changes and was
mystified that my self-written firewall scripts as well as
others such as ufw and arno firewall stopped working.

What was necessary to fix them was to create a link
/etc/alternatives/iptables to /usr/sbin/iptables-legacy.

Have fun (and working firewalls)


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[DNG] Can't get graphic output from qemu

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi list,

Since upgrading to ascii, I don't get a graphic window by default
as before.  Instead, qemu tries (and fails) to make a VNC connection.

I can run qemu-system-x86_64 -display curses for text only.
The sdl and gtk options to -display which I think should
invoke graphic output, instead generate an error message of
being unsupported.

What do I need to do to get the regular graphic output?

regards,


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Re: [DNG] Devuan Beowulf 3.0.0 released.

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 06:30:50PM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote:
> Dear Friends and Software Freedom Lovers,
> 
>Devuan Developers are delighted to announce the release of Devuan Beowulf
>3.0.0 as the project's new stable release. This is the result of many 
> months
>of painstaking work by the Team and detailed testing by the wider Devuan
>community.

Thanks to the many contributors who made this possible!

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Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 12:43:06AM +0100, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> Why are we (DNG mailing list) going over this same old same old again ?

I was probably the firestarter in this case.

While it may be tiresome to some, I think it can be valuable
to occasionally revisit the reasons for Devuan's existence. 

cheers

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Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:09:46PM -0700, spiralofhope wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2020 03:06:37 +1000
> wirelessduck--- via Dng  wrote:
> 
> > > On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org
> > > isn't working (it throws database error):
> > 
> > It looks to have been resurrected by someone else at
> > https://without-systemd.frama.wiki/ but I can’t verify for it’s
> > authenticity or content.


"This is the resurrected without-systemd wiki, which was once
hosted at without-systemdorg. The pages were fetched
from Wayback Machine and converted to dokuwiki syntax."
 
> TL;DR - WONTFIX

Reminds me to revisit https://ewontfix.com/14/
for Felker's Broken by Design article on systemd.

None of the other init systems could compete 
sysvinit due to the latter's huge installed
base. Except when marketing came along...

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[DNG] long delays in waterfox

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi list,

I've been having good experiences with this firefox fork.
Recently it takes seconds for typing to appear in a text
input widget. Also takes longer (showing spinner) to
render pages. I've tried clearing all the caches,
and checked for questionable extensions and plugins.

The only change in my system was pulling the SSD out and
putting it into a same-model notebook (T430) after the
previous notebook suffered a fragrant and fatal  encounter
with a spraying housecat.

I reinstalled firefox, which confirms the delay is 
waterfox-specific. I could go back to firefox, but
would like to troubleshoot this issue if possible.

Any ideas?

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Re: [DNG] Cannot mount android phone via usb (SOLVED)

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 08:56:08PM -0400, marcus via Dng wrote:
> AFAIK you have to enable "Developer Mode" on the phone and then USB
> debugging.
> 
> After that when you plug the USB cable in between your computer and the
> phone it will pop up a notice on the phone that warns of USB Debugging
> enabled.  Below that you will have a note that says it is in USB Charging
> mode.  Scroll down and pick File Transfer mode.
> At that point your computer should realize it is hooked up to the phone and
> give you some kind of prompt or automount the phone depending on how it is
> set up.
> 
> I'm using Android Pie (Lineage 16) on a ZTE Axon 7 and that is how it works
> for me.

Thanks for your reply. After creating the udev rule
(and having set developer mode), jmtpfs will mount the 
filesystem. 

> HTH
> 
> Clarke
> 
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Re: [DNG] Cannot mount android phone via usb

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 12:32:20PM +0200, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> Am 22. August 2019 10:32:01 MESZ schrieb Joel Roth via Dng 
> :
> > I previously used jmtpfs to mount an android phone connected
> > via usb.  Now having issues mounting a recently acquired
> > nokia 6 with android pie. 
> > 
> > First issue was missing /lib/udev/mtp-probe in dmesg output.
> > That was resolved by installing libmtp-runtime. 
> > 
> > Now I get:
> > 
> > [ 2501.994664] usb 2-1.5: new high-speed USB device number 5 using
> > ehci-pci
> > [ 2502.104236] usb 2-1.5: New USB device found, idVendor=0489,
> > idProduct=c001, bcdDevice= 3.18
> > [ 2502.104242] usb 2-1.5: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
> > SerialNumber=3
> > [ 2502.104245] usb 2-1.5: Product: Android
> > [ 2502.104248] usb 2-1.5: Manufacturer: Android
> > [ 2502.104251] usb 2-1.5: SerialNumber: PLEGAR2812101035
> > [ 2502.105172] usb-storage 2-1.5:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected
> > [ 2502.105264] scsi host6: usb-storage 2-1.5:1.0
> > [ 2503.108002] scsi 6:0:0:0: CD-ROMLinuxFile-CD Gadget
> >   0318 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
> > [ 2503.108959] sr 6:0:0:0: Power-on or device reset occurred
> > [ 2503.110700] sr 6:0:0:0: [sr1] scsi-1 drive
> > [ 2503.110909] sr 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi CD-ROM sr1
> > [ 2503.110984] sr 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 5
> > 
> > mount /dev/sr1 /mnt/test fails with 
> > 
> >mount: no medium found on /dev/sr1
> > 
> > jtmpfs reports "No mtp devices found."
> > 
> > file /dev/sr1 reports 
> > 
> >/dev/sr1: block special (11/1)
> > 
> > 
> > lsusb -v -s 2:5
> > 
> >Bus 002 Device 005: ID 0489:c001 Foxconn / Hon Hai
> >Device Descriptor:
> >  bLength18
> >  bDescriptorType 1
> >  bcdUSB   2.00
> >  bDeviceClass0 (Defined at Interface level)
> >  bDeviceSubClass 0
> >  bDeviceProtocol 0
> >  bMaxPacketSize064
> >  idVendor   0x0489 Foxconn / Hon Hai
> >  idProduct  0xc001
> >  bcdDevice3.18
> >  iManufacturer   1 Android
> >  iProduct2 Android
> >  iSerial 3 PLEGAR2812101035
> >  bNumConfigurations  1
> >  Configuration Descriptor:
> >bLength 9
> >bDescriptorType 2
> >wTotalLength   55
> >bNumInterfaces  2
> >bConfigurationValue 1
> >iConfiguration  0
> >bmAttributes 0x80
> >  (Bus Powered)
> >MaxPower  500mA
> >Interface Descriptor:
> >  bLength 9
> >  bDescriptorType 4
> >  bInterfaceNumber0
> >  bAlternateSetting   0
> >  bNumEndpoints   2
> >  bInterfaceClass 8 Mass Storage
> >  bInterfaceSubClass  6 SCSI
> >  bInterfaceProtocol 80 Bulk-Only
> >  iInterface  4 Mass Storage
> >  Endpoint Descriptor:
> >bLength 7
> >bDescriptorType 5
> >bEndpointAddress 0x81  EP 1 IN
> >bmAttributes2
> >  Transfer TypeBulk
> >  Synch Type   None
> >  Usage Type   Data
> >wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
> >bInterval   0
> >  Endpoint Descriptor:
> >bLength 7
> >bDescriptorType 5
> >bEndpointAddress 0x01  EP 1 OUT
> >bmAttributes2
> >  Transfer TypeBulk
> >  Synch Type   None
> >  Usage Type   Data
> >wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
> >bInterval   1
> >Interface Descriptor:
> >  bLength 9
> >  bDescriptorType 4
> >  bInterfaceNumber1
> >  bAlternateSetting   0
> >  bNumEndpoints   2
> >  bInterfaceClass   255 Vendor Specific Class
> >  bInterfaceSubClass 66
> >  bInterfaceProtocol  1
> >  iInterface  7 ADB Interface

[DNG] Cannot mount android phone via usb

[Joel Roth via Dng]

I previously used jmtpfs to mount an android phone connected
via usb.  Now having issues mounting a recently acquired
nokia 6 with android pie. 

First issue was missing /lib/udev/mtp-probe in dmesg output.
That was resolved by installing libmtp-runtime. 

Now I get:

[ 2501.994664] usb 2-1.5: new high-speed USB device number 5 using ehci-pci
[ 2502.104236] usb 2-1.5: New USB device found, idVendor=0489, idProduct=c001, 
bcdDevice= 3.18
[ 2502.104242] usb 2-1.5: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=3
[ 2502.104245] usb 2-1.5: Product: Android
[ 2502.104248] usb 2-1.5: Manufacturer: Android
[ 2502.104251] usb 2-1.5: SerialNumber: PLEGAR2812101035
[ 2502.105172] usb-storage 2-1.5:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected
[ 2502.105264] scsi host6: usb-storage 2-1.5:1.0
[ 2503.108002] scsi 6:0:0:0: CD-ROMLinuxFile-CD Gadget   0318 
PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
[ 2503.108959] sr 6:0:0:0: Power-on or device reset occurred
[ 2503.110700] sr 6:0:0:0: [sr1] scsi-1 drive
[ 2503.110909] sr 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi CD-ROM sr1
[ 2503.110984] sr 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 5

mount /dev/sr1 /mnt/test fails with 

   mount: no medium found on /dev/sr1

jtmpfs reports "No mtp devices found."

file /dev/sr1 reports 

   /dev/sr1: block special (11/1)


lsusb -v -s 2:5

   Bus 002 Device 005: ID 0489:c001 Foxconn / Hon Hai
   Device Descriptor:
 bLength18
 bDescriptorType 1
 bcdUSB   2.00
 bDeviceClass0 (Defined at Interface level)
 bDeviceSubClass 0
 bDeviceProtocol 0
 bMaxPacketSize064
 idVendor   0x0489 Foxconn / Hon Hai
 idProduct  0xc001
 bcdDevice3.18
 iManufacturer   1 Android
 iProduct2 Android
 iSerial 3 PLEGAR2812101035
 bNumConfigurations  1
 Configuration Descriptor:
   bLength 9
   bDescriptorType 2
   wTotalLength   55
   bNumInterfaces  2
   bConfigurationValue 1
   iConfiguration  0
   bmAttributes 0x80
 (Bus Powered)
   MaxPower  500mA
   Interface Descriptor:
 bLength 9
 bDescriptorType 4
 bInterfaceNumber0
 bAlternateSetting   0
 bNumEndpoints   2
 bInterfaceClass 8 Mass Storage
 bInterfaceSubClass  6 SCSI
 bInterfaceProtocol 80 Bulk-Only
 iInterface  4 Mass Storage
 Endpoint Descriptor:
   bLength 7
   bDescriptorType 5
   bEndpointAddress 0x81  EP 1 IN
   bmAttributes2
 Transfer TypeBulk
 Synch Type   None
 Usage Type   Data
   wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
   bInterval   0
 Endpoint Descriptor:
   bLength 7
   bDescriptorType 5
   bEndpointAddress 0x01  EP 1 OUT
   bmAttributes2
 Transfer TypeBulk
 Synch Type   None
 Usage Type   Data
   wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
   bInterval   1
   Interface Descriptor:
 bLength 9
 bDescriptorType 4
 bInterfaceNumber1
 bAlternateSetting   0
 bNumEndpoints   2
 bInterfaceClass   255 Vendor Specific Class
 bInterfaceSubClass 66
 bInterfaceProtocol  1
 iInterface  7 ADB Interface
 Endpoint Descriptor:
   bLength 7
   bDescriptorType 5
   bEndpointAddress 0x02  EP 2 OUT
   bmAttributes2
 Transfer TypeBulk
 Synch Type   None
 Usage Type   Data
   wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
   bInterval   0
 Endpoint Descriptor:
   bLength 7
   bDescriptorType 5
   bEndpointAddress 0x82  EP 2 IN
   bmAttributes2
 Transfer TypeBulk
 Synch Type   None
 Usage Type   Data
   wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
   bInterval   0
   Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
 bLength10
 bDescriptorType 6
 bcdUSB   2.00
 bDeviceClass0 (Defined at Interface level)
 bDeviceSubClass 0
 bDeviceProtocol 0
 bMaxPacketSize064
 bNumConfigurations  1
   Device Status: 0x
 (Bus Powered)

I upgraded from 4.9 kernel to 

Re: [DNG] Pipewire

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Here is an update from mid 2018.

https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2018/10/30/pipewire-hackfest/

Here are presentation slides from a 2019 talk. 

https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/pipewire/attachments/slides/2826/export/events/attachments/pipewire/slides/2826/PipeWire.pdf

Mostly over my head, except I can glean enough to see if
will be some time coming...



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[DNG] Pipewire

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> I am also reading about Pipewire which may replace Pulseaudio and at 
> least for some uses Jack for multimedia purposes. Coming from Red Hat as 
> well, they like will use Systemd to start it, but who knows, I did not 
> check it so far.

Looks like it's still quite a ways from handling audio.

[The] initial version is video only as that is the most
urgent thing we need supported for Flatpaks and Wayland. So
audio is completely unaffected by this for now and rolling
that out will require quite a bit of work as we do not want
to risk breaking audio on your system as a result of this
change. We know that for many the original rollout of
PulseAudio was painful and we do not want a repeat of that
history.

from https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2017/09/19/launching-pipewire/

> Thanks,
> -- 
> Martin
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] What do you think of Wayland?

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 01:19:37PM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Joel Roth via Dng - 13.07.19, 01:24:
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 11:36:17PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2019 Fri, 12 Jul 13:53:20 -0400
> > > 
> > >  Steve Litt scripsit:
> […]
> > > Dont know if wayland is compatible to anything not gnome. But I'm
> > > not verry eger to try.
> 
> It sure is. Plasma developers are working on Wayland support since 
> almost as long as GNOME developers. There are still things to solve, but 
> they got quite far already.
> 
> > Why throw-away a protocol stack that solves the problem? Why
> > not just fix X? Keith Packard and the xorg team did a remarkable job
> > of modularizing X, why not build on that? Of course anyone has
> > the freedom to re-architect something, and perhaps
> > network transparency will be neatly solved.  I for one
> > don't need to be their bug tester. I've scarcely noticed
> > anything with X to complain about.
> 
> While it is true that X11 usually just works these days, I do believe it 
> would be challenging to fix some of the most severe issues with it. Most 
> notably:
> 
> Security of X11 is a complete mess. A complete disaster. Not 
> surprisingly so: Security has not been much of an issue as X11 was 
> invented¹. X11 Clients can do *anything*. They see all of the screen, 
> they can receive all of the keyboard input and… so… on… The network 
> layer is completely unencrypted. SSH X11 forwarding requires a lot of 
> trust between client and server and so on. I believe fixing it would 
> involve inventing a new protocol and re-implement it all from scratch.
> 
> From what I have read and seen security in X11 is broken beyond repair.

> [1] Martin Flöser, Why screen lockers on X11 cannot be secure

For me, at least this is not an issue, as I don't use a
screen locker. 

> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/01/why-screen-lockers-on-x11-cannot-be-secure/
> 
> Some of the issues with SSH X11 forwarding:
> 
> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/14815/security-concerns-with-x11-forwarding

There is some danger is remoting to a malicious server,
although the X11 SECURITY extension helps somewhat.

> Or in more depth than I looked into (I did not watch the whole video):
> 
> X Security, It's worse than it looks, Ilja van Sprundel
> https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5499_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312291830_-_x_security_-_ilja_van_sprundel

This presentation is great. After reviewing a lot of the X client and X
server code, he says that there are 10x as many bugs in glx
(the X extension that enables X to use the GPU via the
opengl API) as in the rest of X.

That's interesting because glx is a newer part of X
and also because the group responsible for glx
are our friends at freedesktop.org.

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Re: [DNG] What do you think of Wayland?

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 11:36:17PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2019 Fri, 12 Jul 13:53:20 -0400
>  Steve Litt scripsit:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > What do you think of Wayland? I hear Buster now defaults to Wayland.
 
> Another step in windosification of linux. 

It seems obvious that big players would have a powerful
motivations to influence the software that millions of 
people run. It is one of the alternatives for explaining
the famous bug in Debian's pseudorandom number generator. Here's a good write 
up with 
incisive comments.

https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2013/09/20/software-transparency-debian-openssl-bug/

> Has the
> "middle-mousebutton-press does not copy text" been fixed
> at last? 

> Can it do display over network now?

No, but one of the proposals is to do it the way X does.


Quote from Wikipedia:[1]

Initial versions of Wayland have not provided network
transparency, though Høgsberg noted in 2010 that network
transparency is possible.[12] It was attempted as a Google
Summer of Code project in 2011, but was not successful.[13]
Adam Jackson has envisioned providing remote access to a
Wayland application by either "pixel-scraping" (like VNC) or
getting it to send a "rendering command stream" across the
network (as in RDP, SPICE or X11).[14] As of early 2013,
Høgsberg is experimenting with network transparency using a
proxy Wayland server which sends compressed images to the
real compositor.[15][16] In August 2017, GNOME saw the first
such pixel-scraping VNC server implementation under
Wayland.[17]

ISTR hearing assertions early on that network transparency
was not a priority for the Wayland project, and thinking that it
didn't seem like a good direction.

> Dont know if wayland is compatible to anything not gnome. But I'm not verry 
> eger to try.

Why throw-away a protocol stack that solves the problem? Why
not just fix X? Keith Packard and the xorg team did a remarkable job of
modularizing X, why not build on that? Of course anyone has
the freedom to re-architect something, and perhaps 
network transparency will be neatly solved.  I for one
don't need to be their bug tester. I've scarcely noticed
anything with X to complain about.

Quoting wikipedia again[2]

Unlike most earlier display protocols, X was
specifically designed to be used over network
connections rather than on an integral or attached
display device. 


And here from askubuntu[3]:

Wayland is a lot less complex than X which should make it
easier to maintain - although some of this simplicity comes
from pushing the complexity (eg: how to actually draw onto
that buffer, network transparency) to other layers of the
stack. By making clients responsible for all of their
rendering the clients can be smarter about things things
like double-buffering.

Existing xclients will not work, and although those based
on GTK+ or Qt *may* be supported in future.


To paraphrase in doggerl:

Wayland's like a step back
counting on a future hack.
Those less geeky won't think twice
Hearing all is new and nice.
They'd be more choosy what they run
Knowing who's behind the fun

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System
3. https://askubuntu.com/questions/11537/why-is-wayland-better
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Re: [DNG] Installing sysv-init under Debian Buster

[Joel Roth via Dng]

If there can be a convergence on this topic, I think it
might be useful addition to the Devuan FAQ,
relevant as it concerns init freedom. 

Q: I'm not ready to move to Devuan yet. Can I setup Debian to use sysvinit 
instead of systemd?

A: For Buster (Debian's current stable distribution) the
following steps are suggested.

apt install -y sysvinit-core elogind
apt --purge autoremove

[Answers for Jessie, other releases]

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energy and return it with interest."
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[DNG] Installing sysv-init under Debian Buster

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi List,

Noting here a solution from the debian-user mailing list.

I'm aware there's a team working for init system flexibility
on Debian and send my kudos and beer vouchers to them :-)

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/06/msg00961.html


 quoted message follow 
> On Jun 27, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Rick Thomas  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 11:20 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>> 
>> Seems this would work as well, with less collateral damage:
>> 
>> apt install -y sysvinit-core elogind
>> apt --purge autoremove
>> 
> 
> This works great and, as noted, is far more elegant.
> 
> Thanks, Jonas!
> Rick

A warning about all of these solutions:  They will remove the package, 
network-manager.
Sometimes this may rewrite the “/etc/network/interfaces” file.  You can loose 
network connectivity after a reboot as a result.
Be prepared to login to the console and fix that up manually if it happens.

Another work-around is to, before doing any apt stuff at all, put a suitable 
fragment into the “/etc/network/interfaces.d/“ directory that configures at 
least one of your network interfaces the way you want it.  As an example, on my 
test system I have:

> $ cat /etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s3
> auto enp0s3
> iface enp0s3 inet dhcp

Hope it helps!
Rick


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[DNG] backups from ext4 to ntfs - extended attributes and access control lists

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi,

I've been backing up my root ext4 filesystem to ntfs for some time, gettings 
errors
from rsync about failing to copy extended attributes.

Will it affect the ability of my devuan OS or any major
components to function if I lose extended attributes or ACLs?

One common use seems to be the immutable flag.

Thanks!

Joel

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Re: [DNG] links2 with -g option hangs - SOLVED

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I'm currently running ascii, for years have used the links2 browser with
> the -g flag. Yesterday I was surprised to find links2 hangs at the
> command line. 
> 
> I cannot imagine why the behavior changed, and a subsequent
> upgrade did not solve the issue.

Solved by removing the file $HOME/.links2/socket-x-_0

> Any ideas? 
> 
> -- 
> Joel Roth
>   
> 
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[DNG] links2 with -g option hangs

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Hi list,

I'm currently running ascii, for years have used the links2 browser with
the -g flag. Yesterday I was surprised to find links2 hangs at the
command line. 

I cannot imagine why the behavior changed, and a subsequent
upgrade did not solve the issue.

Any ideas? 

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Re: [DNG] Way forward

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:45:49AM -0500, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:
> I believe that we should achieve an opinion poll somewhere where get
> registered the members that wish that KatolaZ return to the project.
 
Would be a nice show of support, but I think KatolaZ's opinion is
the only one that matters.


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Re: [DNG] The 1st Devuan conference kicks off tomorrow afternoon!

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Great to hear about this. I have the good fortune to be
in Amsterdam, and the misfortune of having my time fully
booked :-/ I look forward to the checking out the videos.

On Sun, Apr 07, 2019 at 09:53:45AM -0400, Linux O'Beardly via Dng wrote:
> The conference has been wonderful thus far.  The majority of folks that are
> attending are Devuan "gray beards," meaning those of us that have been
> around for a number of years. Some of these participants include GoLinux,
> fsmithred, Parazyd, Evilham, rrq, Katolaz, and Jaromil. Additionally, there
> are at least a couple dozen other folks including those from Ungleich (The
> Devuan Hosting Company) and the European IPv6 working group.  There are too
> many to mention each of them by name, but I want them to know they are
> appreciated. Their attendance has made this a fulfilling and educational
> evolution.  That being said, we've had a handful of attendees who are new
> to Devuan and are here seeking knowledge about the Devuan community,
> ecosystem, and operating system; including two from a major European bank.
> (Thanks for coming fellas!) It's been a worthwhile venture and I'm already
> looking forward to our next conference, which will probably be sooner than
> you think.  More news on that coming in the next couple of months.  We've
> had a number of excellent talks which have been recorded and can be seen at
> https://www.youtube.com/user/DyneOrg.  There are many that have been so
> good that I cannot pick a favorite. There are two sessions left today which
> are going to be live streamed on that same YouTube channel. It's been a
> great conference with an extraordinary group of people and I hope each and
> everyone of you are able to attend the next one.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> *Linux O'Beardly*
> linux.obear...@gmail.com
> http://o.beard.ly
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:07 AM Antony Stone <
> antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it> wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday 07 April 2019 at 14:06:56, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote:
> >
> > > Would like to read news about the conference. Did it make a difference
> > > in the world of Linux or not? Was the message about the advantages of
> > > modularity understood/accepted? What about init choice freedom?
> >
> > I'd be interested whether the attendees were all already familiar with
> > Devuan,
> > and just wanted to get together for a good chat about it, or were there
> > people
> > who were new to Devuan and wanted to find out about the whys and hows?
> >
> >
> > Antony.
> >
> > --
> > Numerous psychological studies over the years have demonstrated that the
> > majority of people genuinely believe they are not like the majority of
> > people.
> >
> >Please reply to the
> > list;
> >  please *don't* CC
> > me.
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Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On 31/01/19 at 03:38, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> >> Might interest someone:
> >>
> >> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/
> >>
> >>  [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet
> >>
> >> His attempt to cast that story for the
> >> pleasure of his audience resulted in a sympathetic and nuanced look at a
> >> turbulent chapter in the history of the Linux system.
> > Hard to believe I listened to the same talk Corbet
> > is describing. What I heard was a propaganda piece,
> > finding reasons to sell the systemd approach
> > to BSD conference attendees.
> 
>   Not really.  He points out there were good reasons to want a new init,
> that systemd was a try at innovating something that was old, and that
> this is a different matter compared to *how* that change was implemented.

Hi Alessandro,

Rice scrupulously avoids mentioning other innovations in the
field of init systems. He represents it as a binary decision
of old versus new. 

>   Honestly, the anti-systemd front is never going to
> prevail pushing technology dating from the 70's or
> steering the debate into an ad hominem assault against
> Lennart Poettering.  It's only chance is developing
> something better, an init system and daemon
> management-and-monitoring tool that was simpler, more
> versatile, customizable and stable than systemd.  

Anti-systemd seems like a pejorative way to describe a
community, and front seems like a rather warlike metaphor.
I'd like to find another paradigm! Also, if it is a war, Red
Hat and friends always won based on the number of users'
machines running systemd.  All those administrators will
certainly prefer to stay with what they have.

Funny that you bring up ad-hominum, as I didn't mention even
mention LP.

Also interesting that neither you nor Rice mention that security 
considerations may be involved in using systemd. 

> That is, the only chance against
> systemd is to come up with something technically better.  May I ask you
> to please present technical arguments either against systemd or in favor
> of alternatives rather than railing against LP or Benno Rice?  

The reason I hit on security is systemd is based on dBus,
and RPC frameworks have significant security weaknesses
compared to other solutions not relying on RPC.  NFS is well
known for being vulnerable due to its dependence on RPC.
Windows has an enormous history of RPC related
vulnerabilities.  I don't get how the tradeoff of this
design choice is just waved away.

There are so many other arguments against systemd that 
have been discussed so endlessly leading to this
distribution and community that I don't think further
discussion on this list is relevant... 

I agree with you that technical arguments will not get
business owners to change their init systems. That is why I
say that the war is mostly won by systemd.  Not matter what
the issues, no one can be fired for choosing systemd/Red Hat/IBM.

Those who know and care, of course, can go elsewhere,
thanks in large part to the hardworking Devuan developers++

cheers,

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Re: [DNG] Systemd as tragedy

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:19:44AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> Might interest someone:
> 
> https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/
> 
>  [Front] Posted Jan 28, 2019 20:05 UTC (Mon) by corbet
> 
> His attempt to cast that story for the
> pleasure of his audience resulted in a sympathetic and nuanced look at a
> turbulent chapter in the history of the Linux system.

Hard to believe I listened to the same talk Corbet
is describing. What I heard was a propaganda piece,
finding reasons to sell the systemd approach
to BSD conference attendees.

To Benno Rice, the tragedy is the pathetic opposition
to what he construes as the inevitable forces of
progress and rationality.

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Re: [DNG] (forw) [sf-lug] systemd memory corruption...

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Rick Moen wrote:
> [insert ironic comment here.]
> 
> - Forwarded message from Bobbie Sellers  
> -

> Subject: [sf-lug] systemd memory corruption... 

Given the size of the code base and the attraction of the huge number of  
of systemd installations, I anticipate an unending supply of security bugs
for the lifetime of the project, and possibly a commercial
market for vulnerabilities as well. 


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Re: [DNG] mailing list software

[Joel Roth via Dng]

Jim Jackson wrote:
> 
> Just an aside - what are the alternatives to procmail?
> so far I've only found _maildrop_ as an in-line delivery filter.

I filter my incoming mail using perl script based on
https://metacpan.org/pod/Email::Filter. It is designed to
be a drop-in replacement for procmail, with a bit less
cryptic syntax.

cheers



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Re: [DNG] Audio woes in Ascii - speakers but no headphones

[Joel Roth via Dng]

On Sun, Dec 09, 2018 at 05:48:53PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> I'd suggest after uninstalling Pulse*, run alsamixer, make sure the
> headphones slide is unmuted, and crank that slide up to 100%,  with the
> headphones off your ears to prevent ear damage. Crank master and PCM up
> to 100% too. You'll probably hear the music.
> 
> If not, use amixer, aplay and speaker-test as diagnostics. I wrote a
> document on troubleshooting sound systems at
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/sound/sound_troubleshooting.htm .
> Unfortunately, I wrote it before realizing the true problems with
> PulseAudio. But still, it might help.

Uninstalling pulseaudio is a good first diagnostic step,
and having done so, your diagnostic suggestions are applicable.

One other good idea is this: alsactl init
The command will put your soundcard in a usable
state.

As exemplified here:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/15765/why-do-i-have-to-run-alsactl-init-each-time-i-boot-my-system

cheers,

Joel

> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> December 2018 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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