Re: [DNG] Another problem you won't have without Systemd (or separate oomd)

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 08:33:45AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 05:31:58PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> > Le 20/08/2022 à 10:20, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> > > oomd may make sense in certain cloud based workloads, maybe, just maybe.
> > > However… on a desktop? You are frigging kidding me, aren't you?
> > 
> >     Well, it can happen to anybody to write an application which leaks
> > memory. The oom killer is automatically launched by the kernel when memory
> > pressure is too high, and it is a necessity. The problem here is with
> > systemd's oom killer, and/or with Gnome.
> 
> Just wondering ... Is there a way to tell the oom killer which
> processes to preferentially kill?  And which ones are worth keeping
> around?
> 
> It would have to be done ahead of time, of course, because once memory
> is so overextended that the oom killer is needed, it's often futile to
> try to enter commands.

  There is. See a documentation for oom_score_adj file in
  https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/proc.txt
 
> Is there a way to keep the response on the system console (on my
> machine that's the ctl-alt-F1 session) up so I can choose which errant
> process to kill and pre-empt oom's choice?

  You would need to adjust getty's score to -1000.
With legacy cgroupv1 there was a file to trigger OOMKiller in specific
cgroup. I don't see equivalent for current cgroups, probably it happens
when memory limits are crossed.
  You can run a daemon to preemptively kill processes causing OOM, one
of such daemons is https://github.com/facebookincubator/oomd


-- 
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to...@pipebreaker.pl in the afternoon and evening.” - Alan Cox

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Re: [DNG] modprobe can't find modeule

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 11:15:57AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote:
> I am trying to install virtualbox. I istalled it and then the 
> virtualbox-dkms module. The problem is that the modules was installed 
> but not loaded. 
> 
> I have /lib/modules/5.18.0-4-amd64/updates/dkms/vboxdrv.ko

  You have module built for kernel 5.18.0-4-amd64

> 
> When I run modprobe on it I get this error:
> 
>   modprobe: FATAL: Module vboxdrv not found in directory
>   /lib/modules/5.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64

  Yet you are running kernel 5.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64  (modprobe loads the
module for current kernel).

  You need to reboot and in the bootloader select kernel 5.18.0-4-amd64.

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to...@pipebreaker.pl  Ziomale na życie mają tu patenty specjalne.

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Re: [DNG] do I need drivers for

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 08:22:38AM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > > > Have found some PCIe 3.0 cards with 16 SATA port count.
> > > > > Do I need any kind of special driver to use  this many SATA ports?
> > > > What kind of SATA cards (brand, model, chip)?
> > > >
> > >
> > > SATA PCIe Adapter 16 Port SATA III to PCI Express 3.0 X1 Controller
> > > Expansion Card ASM1064 JBM575 Chip
> >
> >   Best try is always to search for the chip markings. You would find
> > this thread:
> > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-ide/05f0db0a-e961-0f68-4302-68be03459...@opensource.wdc.com/T/
> > There's a slight difference (ASM1062 vs ASM1064) but the card should work 
> > with
> > standard AHCI driver (you may need to add pciids or bind the driver to
> > the card).
> 
> In inverse order:
> This particular chip '1064' is not listed in the pci.id directory
> although the company is.
> Will that cause problems for my use?
> Binding the driver to the card does not look at all straightforward.

  Binding the driver is a matter of simple `echo` to the file in sysfs.
See this article: https://lwn.net/Articles/143397/
and examples for PCI devices at
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-bus-pci

  Providing _exact_ parameters to use is not possible at this time.
Only after you have the card in your computer you can use `lspci` to
check for exact bus address.


> The AHCI driver lists the ASM1062 and also the ASM1062 with the JMB575.
> There is no listing for the 1064 or the other two newer chips.
> Does this mean that I might have issues using this card?

  I don't expect any problems, but without the card we can't be 100%
sure.
  I suggest you should buy the card from the place with reasonable
return policy. And return it if you can't make it work.

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Re: [DNG] do I need drivers for

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 09:13:35PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 5:16 PM tito via Dng  wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:10:51 -0500
> > o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> >
> > > Greetings
> > >
> > > Bought a mobo that said that there was room for 8 SATA ports and 2 M2 
> > > drives.
> > >
> > > It took looking in the fine print to find that when using M2 drives
> > > that one loses an
> > > SATA port for each M2 drive.

  They may be SATA-only M.2, not NVMe. Read the manual closely.

> > > Have found some PCIe 3.0 cards with 16 SATA port count.
> > >
> > > Do I need any kind of special driver to use  this many SATA ports?
> >
> > What kind of SATA cards (brand, model, chip)?
> >
> 
> SATA PCIe Adapter 16 Port SATA III to PCI Express 3.0 X1 Controller
> Expansion Card ASM1064 JBM575 Chip

  Best try is always to search for the chip markings. You would find
this thread:
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-ide/05f0db0a-e961-0f68-4302-68be03459...@opensource.wdc.com/T/
There's a slight difference (ASM1062 vs ASM1064) but the card should work with
standard AHCI driver (you may need to add pciids or bind the driver to
the card).


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Re: [DNG] What is your take on finit?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Feb 01, 2022 at 01:49:30PM +0100, tito via Dng wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 09:50:31 +0100
> Didier Kryn  wrote:
> 
> > Le 31/01/2022 à 19:16, Steve Litt a écrit :
> > >>      Writing a self-daemonizing daemon in C was a routine when I was
> > >> still active, though I understand it could be more difficult in shell.
> > > But more difficult in Python. I try to stay away from C if Python does
> > > the job. I think Python3 plus its standard libraries are more secure
> > > than C code written by the error prone Steve Litt.
> > 
> >      Let me generalize: "I think Python3 plus its standard libraries are 
> > more secure than C code written by an error prone human being." (~:
> 
> You made my day ;-) ... and Python is written in which programming language?

  There's a number of implementations. One is in Python (self-hosting),
a Java one, a .NET one… there's even a CPython implemented in C if you
want it!

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Re: [DNG] Another one bytes the dust

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 03:01:06PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Apparently the Debian project is still using its unalterable yet
> gameable bureaucracy to screw over those whose opinions differ from
> Debian's political core...
> 
> Please view the following email thread by Norbert Preining and others:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00032.html

  This thread is from 3 years ago, it's not current. 
But if you like this kinf of witch-hunting, maybe you will be interested
in following uncesored
https://debian.community/ and https://fsfellowship.eu/


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Re: [DNG] Track process start / stop?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 11:51:09AM +0100, Antony Stone wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I'm wondering whether there is any way of getting a list or log file of 
> processes which get started and terminated, independently of whether those 
> processes themselves actually do any logging.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering whether there's a logging option buried in whichever part of 
> the 
> system assigns and recovers process IDs as things get started and stopped, 
> perhaps?

 There is audit exactly for that purpose. Something like

 auditctl -a task,always
 ausearch -i -sc execve

 should get you started.

 Another option could be execsnoop
 (https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/blob/master/tools/execsnoop.py)
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 09:40:20PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:
> I was scrolling though my e-mail from the debian user group and I saw
> mention of pipewire, as a replacement for pulseaudio.  It seemed to suggest
> that it was in Testing, so would not be available on my Devuan Stable
> (chimaera) system, but I took a look, anyway.  It seems to be available,
> and, in fact, installed on my system.  It seems to have been brought in by
> zoom.

  Are you sure you want pipewire? Looking at the code:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/commits/master

  Main contributor is from certain company associated with color red and
a headgear. Given the sentiment on this list, you may want to think twice.

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Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 01:12:07PM -0600, Rod Rodolico via Dng wrote:
> Debian, Redhat, etc... are actually more "based on Unix" than "Unix",
> and that process appears to be growing as more and more functions are
> taken over by system-d. Just like you can say that OS X is "based on"
> Unix, but you can not call it Unix except in the broadest terms.

  That's an… interesting take on truth. Debian, Red Hat are UNIX-like systems.
But OS X (actually renamed to macOS around five years ago) is not UNIX-like,
it is actually a certified UNIX system.  You can check latest
certificate at
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3668.htm

  From all above systems, only macOS can be called UNIX.

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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 06:00:15PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 21/07/2021 à 16:51, Bernard Rosset via Dng a écrit :
> >> https://www.zdnet.com/article/nasty-linux-systemd-security-bug-revealed/
> >
> > I'll be projecting myself here, but I reckon sharing the original
> > source rather than journalistic articles whenever possible is best
> > towards a tech-savvy audience.
> >
> > The source (included in above article) is here:
> > https://blog.qualys.com/vulnerabilities-threat-research/2021/07/20/cve-2021-33910-denial-of-service-stack-exhaustion-in-systemd-pid-1
> 
>     The code shows the use of strdupa(). There is a family of functions
> which are extensions of POSIX functions, with the suffix 'a' which
> allocate space for the returned string from the stack. They are very
> convenient for lazy programmer, but (slightly ?) dangerous and do not
> belong to POSIX.
> 
>     I've found a discussion between a developper and Lennart Poeterring
> in which LP recommends the addition of this kind of functions in Musl
> libc (which will certainly never happen). 

  That's amusing thought. strdupa() is in Musl:
http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/include/string.h#n89
alloca() is there, too:
http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/include/alloca.h


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seeking
to...@pipebreaker.pl   an IP-routable hand grenade.”  — Andrew Morton (LKML)

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Re: [DNG] Advice sought re: ejabberd

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 09:15:22AM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 11:44 PM Tomasz Torcz  wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 12:42:15PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > # less /var/log/ejabberd/error.log
> > > 2021-07-18 09:43:36.985 [error]
> > > <0.82.0>@ejabberd_config:validate_opts:1095 Unknown option 'echo
> > > /lib > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.confwhat'
> > > 2021-07-18 09:43:36.985 [error] <0.82.0>@ejabberd_config:start:88
> > > Failed to load configuration file /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.yml
> >
> >   Looks like you have some junk (“echo /lib > 
> > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.conf”)
> > in /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.yml config file.
> >   This is a part of install instructions:
> > https://evergreen-ils.org/~bshum/OpenSRF-README.html#_adjust_the_system_dynamic_library_path
> > but it should be executed, not put in ejabberd config.
> >
> 
> Not sure what you mean by 'clean this up'.
> please advise

  Look into /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.yml and remove what make it improper YAML.
Like the mentioned echo command.

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Re: [DNG] Advice sought re: ejabberd

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 12:42:15PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> # less /var/log/ejabberd/error.log
> 2021-07-18 09:43:36.985 [error]
> <0.82.0>@ejabberd_config:validate_opts:1095 Unknown option 'echo
> /lib > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.confwhat'
> 2021-07-18 09:43:36.985 [error] <0.82.0>@ejabberd_config:start:88
> Failed to load configuration file /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.yml

  Looks like you have some junk (“echo /lib > 
/etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.conf”)
in /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.yml config file.
  This is a part of install instructions:
https://evergreen-ils.org/~bshum/OpenSRF-README.html#_adjust_the_system_dynamic_library_path
but it should be executed, not put in ejabberd config.

  You need to clean this up.

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Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense

[Tomasz Torcz]

Dnia Tue, May 25, 2021 at 04:53:29PM +0100, Rowland penny via Dng napisał(a):
> > After installing it on an fresh Beowulf installation, it does not run
> > and to my knowledge will never be able to w/o systemd sockets.
> > 
> > IIRC, the policy is not to remove anything related, but use stubs and
> > let the user deal with half-broken software (ie. GNOME). Cockpit doesn't
> > (currently) have dependencies on systemd and it's modules, but it
> > requires a systemd socket to function. So, AFAICT, it is not even
> > partially usable.
> > 
> 
> Why would you want to remove something that works ?

  Have you seen Cockpit working on Devuan system?

> It just needs an init script.

 It's more than that. Cockpit uses systemd's API not only to listen on
network socket, but also to manage services and other stuff.
Just starting Cockpit without systemd requires helpers like
https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/commit/777c59095af6147af487bf6a5aa76b915b2463d6
It probably not worth (or even feasible) reimplemnting all those APIs
for Cockpit.

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Re: [DNG] ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking our kernels from Debian?

[Tomasz Torcz]

Dnia Sat, May 01, 2021 at 05:11:48PM +0200, Didier Kryn napisał(a):
> Le 30/04/2021 à 15:05, Arnt Karlsen a écrit :
> > On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:37:20 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 
> > <20210430143720.7311bc82@d44>:
> >
> >
> >> https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/29/stealthy_linux_backdoor_malware_spotted/
> >>  
> > ..how it works:
> > https://blog.netlab.360.com/stealth_rotajakiro_backdoor_en/
> 
> 
>     This backdoor is targetting systemd and gvfs.

  Can you prove that?  The analysis you linked shows nothing like that:
- gvfsd is only used as a part of name of backdoor binary, there seem to be no
  interaction with real gvfsd at all
- first file described in analysis is an _upstart_ configuration file

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Re: [DNG] Need install Devuan Beowolf but got "initramfs" prompt

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Wed, Feb 03, 2021 at 02:44:41PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:
> I wish that the first three emails had their replies intact and were in
> the reply after quote style. Then I would print it out and frame it.

  As an example of newcomer coming for help and then being drown in
offtopic banter?

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Re: [DNG] problematic mouse driver?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 06:07:31AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> About the time I upgraded to Bwowulf I experienced periodic problems 
> having the mouse pasting scanneted text with middle mouse button. 
> 
> I find that sometimes the mouse remembers scanned text but then is 
> unable to paste it. The problem comes and goes with my wired mouse but 
> is always present with my wireless mouse. It primarily occurs when 
> copying text from a GUI application such as displayed by a browser and 
> then pastting it into a text based application such as nano. But I 
> find that I can (usually?) correct the problem by scanning and pasting 
> a bit of text in nano and then do it with a GUI application.
> 
> Anyone have any idea of what might be going on?

  I wonder if your workflow is similar with wired and wireless mice.
Maybe you do something different, like closing the window in the
meantime?

  This is important, because selecting text with mouse does NOT actually
copy the text!  It is just selected.  If you use middle button, then the
text is taken from original window and pasted into target.
  Now, if you select text, then close the original window, the middle
button won't paste. There will be no original window to take the text
from.

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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 07:46:57PM +0200, J. Fahrner via Dng wrote:
> Am 2020-06-14 19:39, schrieb d...@d404.nl:
> > Most likely the usb_storage module is compiled in the kernel.
> 
> How can I set its parameters in this case?

  Try files in /sys/module/usb_storage/parameters
Or you can put in kernel command line: usb_storage.parameter=…
as described at
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html

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Re: [DNG] Identifying an installed physical hard drive without damage

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 03:10:23PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 02:55:00PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote:
> > On Sunday 11 August 2019 at 14:37:09, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > 
> > > I do not know which of the hard drives on my machine is /dev/sdb/
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > Or is there some completely different way of accomplishing what I want?
> > 
> > # hdparm -i /dev/sdb
> > 
> > It'll tell you the drive type and the serial number, which should also be 
> > printed on the drive label.
> 
> Yes, that will help!  Thank you.
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

  Or take a look at `ls -l /dev/disk/by-id/`, you will get maker, S/N
  and sdX device.

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Re: [DNG] why does mount expect NTFS?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 08:18:54AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 02:13:48PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > On 10.08.19 21:51, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > So I want to find out what's in /dev/sda4 on my hard drive.  The 
> > > computer has *never* had Windows on it.  So I try to mount it, and am 
> > > told:
> > > 
> > > april:/farhome/hendrik# mount /dev/sda4 /test
> > > NTFS signature is missing.
> > > Failed to mount '/dev/sda4': Invalid argument
> > > The device '/dev/sda4' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS.
> > > Maybe the wrong device is used? Or the whole disk instead of a
> > > partition (e.g. /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1)? Or the other way 
> > > around?
> > > april:/farhome/hendrik#
> > > 
> > > Why would it try for and NTFS file system on a Linux machine?
> > 
> > To move from speculation to analysis requires information. One way to
> > read the filesystem type of an unmounted filesystem is with blkid, e.g.:
> > 
> > $ blkid /dev/sdb1
> > /dev/sdb1: LABEL="fred" UUID="7713e1b5-1bdf-41d1-9aa9" TYPE="ext2"
> > 
> > As you have not specified an fstype in the mount command, it'll normally
> > use the blkid libraries to discover the fstype in just this way, so
> > let's see what it finds.
> 
> april:/farhome/hendrik# blkid /dev/sda4
> /dev/sda4: PARTLABEL="Linux filesystem" 
> PARTUUID="14fdecea-4672-4d03-9660-868f3fd630ec"
> april:/farhome/hendrik#
> 
> And if it doesn't mention  type, should I presume that it's likely a 
> partition that does not have a file system installed?  Or at 
> least not one the current Linux system can handle?

  That may be true.  You can also check with “wipefs” tool (don't worry,
without -a it won't wipe anything):

  wipefs --no-act /dev/sda4

Wipefs has a big database of various filesystem metadata, it detects
almost anything.

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Re: [DNG] Systemd depends on random numbers in order to work properly

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 02:58:37PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > What need could there possibly be for randomness at boot time?
> > > What *use* could there even be, never mind need?
> > 
> > From what I gathered they need some basic randomness for UUID generation 
> > for all units and for some hashmap implementation. But as far as I got, 
> > they would not even need random values with cryptographic quality. But 
> > when using /dev/urandom they still drain the entropy pool for more 
> > important applications of randomness (like generating SSH keys).
> 
> So why do they need new UUID's at every boot?

  Not every boot. Every service start:
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/4b58153dd22172d817055d2a09a0cdf3f4bd9db3

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Re: [DNG] *** DEVUAN.ORG HAS BEEN PWNED *** , message

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:55:57AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> On Sun March 31 2019 10:55:22 KatolaZ wrote:
> > We know. Seems to be quite serious. No access to our infra. We are
> > working on it, and we will post updates. :\
> 
> Assuming you still control your DNS you could immediately remove
> and later replace *.devuan.org to reduce the number of people
> accessing/downloading potentially compromised material.
> 
> Here at yosemite.net we have stopped ALL package updates/installs
> until we know more.


 You are over-reacting on April Fools joke.


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Re: [DNG] Debian dev takes a break from packaging systemd

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 12:42:15AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> 
> Later he seems surprised about how things roll there:
> 
> > I'm amazed that I have to point this out
> >
>   Yes, it's amazing.
>   Even more amazing is that such a software was almost universally
> adopted as a key piece of the OS.

  And this:
“I think this user rule was in error, and it worked for a while by luck,
and now it doesn't. This happens all the time.”


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Re: [DNG] who is working for who (was Avahi (was Weird network issue))

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:53:07PM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:
> For real fun, turn on Avahi along with all the pulse audio stuff.
> 
> Watch your network get flooded with multi-cast audio.

  Flooded?  I'm sorry, but does you network is built over 33,6kbs
modems?  Have you lost the perspective?

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Re: [DNG] keys & subsystems

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 10:07:53AM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 14:17:14 -0500
> Eric Lee Elliott  wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > like 
> > memory sticks are know to have internal computers.  How do Devuan users 
> > know the SSD is not calling home
> 
> How could they possibly do it?  Do you think they have a WiFi embedded?

  Do you think they won't?  Do you have a way to prove there's no secret
 wifi circuitry in your SSDs?
  Remember, that even simple HDD controller is a multi-purpose CPU
 which can run any code – http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack=3
  The controllers in SSD are multi-core ARM and MIPS chips, much more
 powerful; and for wifi connectivity all you need is 1cm long track
 on circutboard, which could be buried in some inside layer of board.

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Re: [DNG] Unswapping interface names

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 04:40:07PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 16/07/2018 à 15:04, Hendrik Boom a écrit :
> > > > > > I solved this editing
> > > > > > the /etc/roules.d/peresist.rules and use names like nic0, nic1. And 
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > changed the /etc/networking/interfaces to the new names.
> > > > > Those files done't seem to exists in my /etc.
> > > > But there is a /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
> > > > so I'll try editing that.
> > > > 
> > >      I got the feeling that those /etc/udev files are ignored nowadays.
> > > Therefore better hack in /lib/udev. But, if you disable interface renaming
> > > in the kernel command arguments, this hack will have no effect.
> > Editing that file worked, so evidently it wasn't ignored.  Is it likely
> > to be ignored in the future?  Is there another mechanism I should be
> > looking into?  Will vdev or eudev (or any other expected *dev) do things
> > differently?
> 
>     Means I was wrong (-: I might have been induced in error by the fact
> that some rule files exist in /lib/udev and not in /etc/udev, and ancient
> versions had all rule files in /etc/udev.

  Those days udev follow rules:
  - files in /usr/lib/udev (/lib/udev on Debian) are shipped with
package, thus will be replaced by apt update; these files should not
be modified
  - files in /etc/udev are owned by sysadmin. This is the proper place
for customizations, files in /etc won't be touched by packaging
  - if there are files with the same name in /lib and /etc, the one
from /etc (sysadmin-owned) wins.

  Bonus rule, /run/udev files win over /etc, but are removed on reboot.

  This is described in “man udev”, chapter “RULES FILES”.

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Re: [DNG] strategy for missing sysvinit scripts - the tuned case

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 09:22:26AM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> 
> Being a relatively simple CRUD / declarative configuration it may be
> easy to generate scripts from the information contained in systemd
> service configurations, or even wrap them runtime with a smaller
> program executing their commands and called by sysvinit/openrc.

  Debian tried it during GSoC couple years ago:
https://github.com/akhilvij/systemd-to-sysvinit-converter
  Maybe this could be revived and extended.

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Re: [DNG] Mozilla is at it again - Firefox nightly sends all your hostname lookups to cloudflare

[Tomasz Torcz ️]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 02:42:53AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 05:43:15PM -0400, taii...@gmx.com wrote:
> > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/20/mozilla_firefox_test_of_privacy_mechanism_prompts_privacy_worries/
> > 
> > Mozilla sucks these days - they pay zero attention to the issue of
> > browser fingerprinting and keep sending users data to other parties via
> > bogus "opt out" "research" studies.
> > 
> > "Oh but you can opt-out"
> > Assuming you even know about it in the first place - and what? you need
> > to opt-out of probably thousands of bad things in your life which makes
> > such a policy absolute bullshit.
> 
> The only saving grace is that they do this tracking on a test group.  On the
> other hand, Chromium saves both the URL and refer[r]er of every downloaded
> file using an user-namespace xattr, a little-known feature implemented by
> most filesystems (not tmpfs, if you use /tmp for testing :p).  Even in its
> "incognito mode" that's not supposed to log anything.

  I though most popular download tools do that? Chromium for at least
  six years: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=45903

  Curl for 8 years: 
https://github.com/curl/curl/blob/master/src/tool_xattr.c#L55

  Wget: https://fossies.org/linux/wget/src/xattr.c#60

  Plasma desktop:
  
https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kfilemetadata/html/usermetadata_8cpp_source.html#127

  Even Fedora already obsoleted Yum:
  
http://yum.baseurl.org/gitweb?p=urlgrabber.git;a=blob;f=urlgrabber/grabber.py#l1775

  And, according to this, Microsoft Skype:
  http://blog.manton.im/2017/02/working-with-extended-attributes-in.html

  Firefox is lagging:
  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665531

  I consider it standard in GNU/Linux (for years!), so why bring it up now?

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Re: [DNG] rc.local removed from Debian 9, rly?

[Tomasz Torcz]

November 22, 2017 11:21 AM, "John Hughes"  wrote:

> On 22/11/17 08:48, Didier Kryn wrote:
> 
>> Le 22/11/2017 à 07:19, John Hughes a écrit :
>>> Is there any way to read a file in format X without a program that
>>> reads format X?
>> 
>> The question is why use yet another "proprietary format"? Just to
>> force people to be use systemd for every task they need to do with
>> their computer.
> 
> Here we go again with the "assume bad faith".
> 
> The systemd journal format is not a proprietary format.


proprietary:
  : something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal right 
of the inventor or maker

  As far as I know, there is still no human-readable description of journal 
file format.
The only reference is journald source code, which is open source but some 
people prefer
not to be exposed to it (because of licensing at least, if not other reasons).
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but all readers of journal (in syslogs, log 
forwarders and
aggregators) get the data through journald API or systemd library. No one manage
to read those files directly, right?

  Journald files, having no documented format, fit in definition of 
“proprietary”.
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Re: [DNG] Names of logical volumes

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 07:38:30AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> I'm trying to make sure I don't do something catastrophic by 
> misunderstanding.
> 
> I do
> 
> lvcreate --name ascii-root --size 3G jessie
> 
> to create a logical volume called "ascii-root" within the volume 
> group "jessie".
> 
> Then I look at the result by
> 
> ls /dev/mapper
> 
> and get:
> 
> root@notlookedfor:/# lvcreate --name ascii-root --size 3G jessie
>   Logical volume "ascii-root" created
> root@notlookedfor:/# ls /dev/mapper
> control   jessie-devuan--home  jessie-devuan--usr  jessie-tmp
> jessie-ascii--root  jessie-devuan--root  jessie-devuan--var
> root@notlookedfor:/# 
> 
> Now I get it that it concatenates the folume group name, a hyphen, 
> and the logical volume name.
> 
> But why does it stick an extra hyphen in the logical volume name?

  To “escape” the hyphen in name, in order to differentiate between
concatenation hyphen and in-the-name hyphen.

 BTW, check ls /dev/jessie/


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Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:05:55AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 02:17:03AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> > Every time one uses the word "cgroups" he's subtly arguing for
> > systemd. Every time one uses the word "DE" he's subtly arguing for
> > complex, and usually bloated, GOSFUIs.
> 
> Just wondering.  Does Android use cgroups in its attampt to keep apps 
> from interfering withone another? 

  Yes, it does.  At last it was few versions ago, see
https://www.slideshare.net/yoshijava1/usage-and-comparisons-of-control-group-in-android-aosp-marshmallow-and-before

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seeking
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Re: [DNG] sane-utils depends on libsystemd0

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, May 09, 2017 at 10:47:08AM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 08/05/2017 10:42, Tomasz Torcz a écrit :
> > On Mon, May 08, 2017 at 09:41:06AM +0200, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> > > I found another package that depends on libsystemd0: sane-utils.
> > > Would it be difficult to remove this dependency, or is there a valid 
> > > reason
> > > for having this?
> >It easy to remove, there's a configure switch:
> > https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/sane/sane-backends.git/commit/?id=c4ae327be5ccf762fe7bb3c1e7f12e13f6b6a1d1
> > 
> >The integration of logging and socket-activation in systemd environments
> > seem to be optional:
> > https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/sane/sane-backends.git/commit/?id=39545b1b90dd9c9e12c20f02cf4ead3afac20de9
> > 
> 
> I thought Sane was a bare application. Does it involve also some kind of
> server to "need" socket-activation and logging?
> 

  http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/saned8.html

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Re: [DNG] sane-utils depends on libsystemd0

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, May 08, 2017 at 09:41:06AM +0200, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> I found another package that depends on libsystemd0: sane-utils.
> Would it be difficult to remove this dependency, or is there a valid reason
> for having this?

  It easy to remove, there's a configure switch:
https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/sane/sane-backends.git/commit/?id=c4ae327be5ccf762fe7bb3c1e7f12e13f6b6a1d1

  The integration of logging and socket-activation in systemd environments
seem to be optional:
https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/sane/sane-backends.git/commit/?id=39545b1b90dd9c9e12c20f02cf4ead3afac20de9

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Re: [DNG] ..setnet.sh, wicd and heads-0.2 scorn, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 07:13:31PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > 
> > Snowden is far from clueless. He might be a shill, but he's far from
> > clueless.
> 
> ...and, he promotes Tails and Qubes OS, both running systemd.  
> Ed came forward with the ugly truth on NSA etc espionage 
> on their own people, not on his own IT expertise.

  IT expertise?  Do you have _any_ idea about Snowden's proffesional
career before 2013?

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Re: [DNG] The Internet Wifi Daemon

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 02:59:51AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:22:31 +1300
> Daniel Reurich  wrote:
> 
> > On 19/01/17 05:30, Harald Arnesen wrote:
> > > Hendrik Boom [2017-01-18 16:20]:
> > >   
> > >> I this ssomethnig we should be aware of?  It seems someone is in
> > >> the process of replacing wpa_supplicant and a lot of the tools
> > >> above it with new software, IWD, the Internet Wifi Daemon.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.linux.com/news/event/elce/2017/new-linux-wifi-daemon-streamlines-networking-stack
> > >>   
> > > 
> > > As I understand it, this is just for Linux, while wpa_supplicant
> > > works on the BSDs as well. If a cross-platform solution exists, I
> > > would rather have that.
> > >   
> > If it's well implemented I expect that bringing the BSD's on board
> > will be useful too.  I think that the approach is promising for a
> > start.
> 
> I get worried when I hear that some software will "replace" other
> software, rather than "here's some better software." Sounds a little
> too Poetteresque to me, and why do I get the feeling Redhat's and
> FreeDesktop's tenticles will be all over it?

  Maybe because iwd was initially introduced at systemd.conf 2016?
https://cfp.systemd.io/en/systemdconf_2016/public/events/22

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Re: [DNG] [OT] setnet v0.2: a shell script for network config

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 04:07:48PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:08:52PM +, KatolaZ wrote:
> > Steve, that's already been fixed. The detection of interface type is
> > implemented using iwconfig now, and is not based on interface names
> > any more.
> 
> That isn't going to work everywhere unfortunately. As of now, the
> built-in wifi adapter on the raspberry pi 3 shows no wireless
> extensions when running as arm64.
> 
> <https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk/issues/9>

  Does it shiw correctly with "iw dev"? That's iw from
http://www.linuxwireless.org/en/users/Documentation/iw/

iwconfig has been deprecated by it maintainers.

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Re: [DNG] vdev - udev is a dead end

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 10:51:22AM -0500, dev wrote:
> 
> 
> On 08/10/2016 04:26 AM, Didier Kryn wrote:
> > Hello. Thanks to a friendly help, I've found a few mails and
> > articles which deserve to be read:
> > 
> > Udev on non-systemd is a dead-end:
> 
> So.. then.. basically any Linux distro which uses udev to populate /dev/ is
> going to be S.O.L? Including Slackware presumably?

  Past tense would be more precise.  Current udev _cannot_ be used to
populate /dev, it doesn't contain any mknod() calls enymore.

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Re: [DNG] Fearsome rumblings from GNU

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 01:33:32PM -0400, Peter Olson wrote:
> > On August 7, 2016 at 1:22 PM Brian Nash <bcn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Greetings everyone.
> > 
> > This is just a heads up, GNU has had a few changes floating around for a
> > while, and it looks like they are finally making it into distributions.
> > 
> > Currently, only Fedora is affected (which I doubt anyone here uses),
> > but it is possible that these changes will make it to Debian as well.
> > 
> 
> As far as I can see, the original poster doesn't say what the change is.  
> (Maybe some attachments got lost in the forwarding?)
> 
> I haven't looked into the changelog of coreutils to try to find out, but it 
> would be helpful to know what is at issue here.

  I guess this is about weird, superflous quoting in “ls”:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=813164

  Debian was dilligent enough to revert the patch (half a year ago).
Fedora – not so much.

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Re: [DNG] Flexible software (Was: F1 and special usernames on the login screen)

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:57:41PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote:
> 
> > Since this is Devuan (something about veteran *unix* admins, and
> > coming from Debian - the *universal* OS), I would not have expected
> > Devuan's fans and users to be so close minded.
> 
> I think anyone here should stop taking conversations in DNG as
> representative of Devuan. Please note that even those who denigrated
> our efforts, names the shitdevuansays hooligans, have done so. I know
> the gmane title for the list is misleading (this is not the "devuan
> development" list), yet we have not choosen that title for it nor have
> never declared this to be a place representative of devuan.
> 
> Devuan has official channels for communication and people who are
> appointed to such a communication. As one of them let me say that,
> since many here read and run code, I recommend taking the actual
> software as the best means of communicating what Devuan is about.

  Could you point us to those proper Devuan channels?  Some of us
are genuinely interested in challenges when developing the distribution,
and getting to know the ways Devuan developers solved those challenges.
  Signal to noise ratio is very low here, for each one email with solid
technicalities there are at least dozen useless emails.  I would 
happily leave dng if I could read archives of real development list.

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Re: [DNG] Custom OS initiator. In need of some hints...

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 08:16:44AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This is a question about implementing a minimal OS initiator.  If
> DNG's admins/mods deem this email is misplaced please delete it or
> ignore it.

  If you really want to create yet another init, I can recommend this
simple, step by step explanation of Linux' init responsibilities:

  https://felipec.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/init/

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Re: [DNG] Installer console on tty2?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 03:02:48PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> Dear Devuaners,
> 
> this is just a very minor thing. I was installing our beloved Devuan
> Jessie on a qemu image, for testing purposes, using expert mode net
> install. I wanted to switch to the console which shows the progression
> made by the installer, including package installation and
> configuration. Unfortunately, this console is on tty4, meaning that to
> switch to it I should press ALT+F4.which kills qemu :)
> 

  Can you use Alt+arrow keys to change consoles?  Or qemu's ”sendkey”
feature?

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Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 07:10:28AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:14:25 +0100
> Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> wrote:
> 
> >  I think it is different for Systemd supporters:
> > 
> >  - shut up, we know better than you
> >  - you have no choice but do as we tell you
> 
> Yeah, and how's that working out for them, now that Docker has switched
> to an OpenRC distribution, Devuan is going strong, and there are
> seemingly more sans-systemd distros popping up every day?
> 
> Have you guys noticed you don't hear as much chatter from BSD guys
> about "writing a systemd-like init for BSD"?

  They tend just to do the work, not blabber around:

https://github.com/mheily/relaunchd

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/nosh.html

http://www.daemonspawn.org/2016/01/a-comparison-of-alternatives-to-init8.html

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Re: [DNG] Slackware now uses PulseAudio...

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 10:39:22AM -0500, Mitt Green wrote:
> 
> Fortunately, systemd is not mentioned there, thus its appearance
> in 14.2 is unlikely, I reckon. And, fortunately, the way they manage
> packages can't imply pushing people towards using systemd
> or it's libraries.
> 
> The whole changelog for i386 is here:
> http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386
> 

  Slackware switched to eudev in order to avoid systemd.

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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 04:27:32PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> >> you'll note that the
> >>
> >> if (init_is_systemd)F {
> >>do some systemd stuff;
> >> } else {
> >>/* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
> >> }
> >>
> >> is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
> >
> > Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for
> > libsystemd0.
> 
> That's not really surprising as there is no source for
> 'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd,
> 
> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0
> 
> and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either.

  That was pseudo-code.  The real function name is sd_booted().

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Tomasz Torcz Morality must always be based on practicality.
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Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 11:23:10AM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> > If rundirs are on non-volatile storage, my implementation can delete
> > them at system shutdown (assuming an orderly shutdown is performed).
> 
> if you use the /tmp prefix as default then you don't even need to handle
> such a deletion in the default case: it all falls back into the handling
> of /tmp, simplifying much the site configuration for those not willing
> to go into details, plus we avoiding unlinks in /var/run

  But XDG_RUNTIME_DIR files should stay for the duration of user's session.
If user stays logged in for couple of weeks, /tmp cleanup removing
files older than 1 month can remove user files mid-session.

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Re: [DNG] does systemd set runlevel 0 in utmp on shutdown?

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:09:08PM +0200, tilt! wrote:
 Does systemd write RUN_LVL utmp entries in a compliant fashion;
 especially, when entering shutdown, does it generate an entry of
 ut_type RUN_LVL with ut_pid set to 0?

 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/src/shared/utmp-wtmp.c#L173



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