Re: [DNG] Configuration of boot drives
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Hendrik Boom > Sent: den 29 juni 2020 14:18 > What I want to know is: >What determines which disks' MBRs get written to during a >normal kernel upgrade initiated by aptitude. A normal kernel upgrade does not, nor needs to rewrite MBRs. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] supported ways to control user access to audio/video devices
Thanks to some helpful off-list replies and to additional research, for a casual reader: This access control is implemented via udev and elogind which *is* systemd code and architecture. This is supposed to "just work", for some definition of "work". When it does not, you face a challenge (a systemd issue from 2016 about the lack of documentation for uaccess vs ID_* is still open). /D -Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of dal Sent: den 25 maj 2020 15:32 To: 'dng@lists.dyne.org' Subject: [DNG] supported ways to control user access to audio/video devices Dear list, A round of searching and reading did not give me any usable explanation of Subj on Devuan. More specifically, static assignment of users to the "audio"/"video" groups is not applicable (on shared, remotely accessible computers). It looks like ConsoleKit used to be the answer in Debian, but in my testing on Beowulf the consolekit package is not compatible with any desktop environment besides xfce. Is this an inherent limitation somewhere, a packaging bug or otherwise a misunderstanding on my part? Regards, /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] supported ways to control user access to audio/video devices
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of terryc > Sent: den 26 maj 2020 03:23 > My understanding is that it is a inherent limitation of *nix. Fortunately, for the purposes of installations here, we see some acceptable solutions, my hope was though that Devuan already implemented such functionality. Thanks Terry for your support. Best regards, /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] supported ways to control user access to audio/video devices
Dear list, A round of searching and reading did not give me any usable explanation of Subj on Devuan. More specifically, static assignment of users to the "audio"/"video" groups is not applicable (on shared, remotely accessible computers). It looks like ConsoleKit used to be the answer in Debian, but in my testing on Beowulf the consolekit package is not compatible with any desktop environment besides xfce. Is this an inherent limitation somewhere, a packaging bug or otherwise a misunderstanding on my part? Regards, /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
Rick, would you please cease using negatively charged buzzwords, like "conspiracy theories" while your counterpart is talking about existing legitimate (good or bad but legitimate) business interests and motivations which are _not_ hidden at all. Also, in my humble opinion, the following is a rude ad-hominem pseudo-argument: -Original Message- > From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Rick Moen via Dng > Sent: den 21 maj 2020 06:07 > Oh, right: > You don't actually understand civil litigation at all. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
> I am. I eschew Occam's Razor in favor of Litt's Razor, which can be > paraphrased "Follow the money." > > As one piece of evidence I present the words of a Redhat exec long > before systemd existed: > > http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/interview-with-red-hat-cto-brian.html > > Search the word "complexity" to get right to the piece of evidence that > Redhat profits from complexifying Linux. A very good illustration, thanks Steve. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Felker Init: was without-systemd.org not working
Hello Steve, > This enraged me: > The fact that a Troubleshooting Trainer could make an init in a couple > weeks, yet the Redhat/Freedesktop/Poettering axis was telling us what a > complex thing an init was. They have in mind their own, different from yours and mine, idea of how the computers are to be used and administrated: A clueless user and magic behind the scenes, which also keeps the user clueless forever - good for business. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?
Hello Riccardo, > From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Riccardo Mottola > via Dng > I installed SkypeForLinux and it works very well - maybe it is not the > best answer, it is not "open" but at least not browser based! ah! SO in I wonder, did you give for example [q]Tox a try, before resorting to pay by your and your contacts privacy for a "free service" and here suggesting to others to do the same? > matter of "trust" I don't perceive it as worse and it is an application, > so once I closed it it's closed. Do you have *any* possibility to check whether your "trust" is not being betrayed? /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Nowak Sent: den 19 april 2020 05:22 [skipped] For those who don't need brltty and who find the log messages a problem, uninstalling brltty should resolve the issue. -- The option to uninstall does not resolve the main problem, which should be fixed upstream. Practically it is important to be able to install packages even if they are not going to be used on the given computer (compare this to "Recommended" which are uncertain whether they will be used or not). One specific case of value is installing many mostly identical computers with the same set of packages. OT: A similar issue is various services (like sshd) which are being started at a package installation time (not later, say after a reconfiguration, or never). policy.rc.d seems to be the only, inconvenient workaround. This is of course not Beowulf/Devuan-specific. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng Sent: den 18 april 2020 13:47 If the OP has task-console-productivity installed it might be a Devuan specific issue. The brltty package is recommended there and there is no such task in Debian AFAIK. - Yes, I think it came in that way, but its presence is not a problem. The logs are, as Antony already wrote. Including the package into a "task" just made that Debian/upstream bug apparent. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Antony Stone Sent: den 18 april 2020 13:25 It's definitely not Devuan-specific; I don't know whether it is Debian-specific, or generic to any distro which includes brltty. I've only ever used it on Debian. If you consider it a bug, it needs to be reported upstream; I'm just not sure how far up. - Thanks Antony! /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Antony Stone Sent: den 18 april 2020 12:05 On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 12:00:18, dal wrote: > Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of > > brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] -> > /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device Did you deliberately install accessibility for blind people? [skipped] you will get these messages if the Braille display is not connected. - Then this is a bug, to fill the logs if hardware is not connected (does not have to be Beowulf/Devuan fault, I did not test with Debian). And no, it was not installed deliberately, but it could be. It came probably as a part of some task package. Some of the computers which share the package set may have or lack the hardware. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] -> /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device ? /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
Installing Beowulf today, I get firefox-esr_68.6.1esr-1~deb10u1_amd64.deb despite that Debian said 8 Apr 2020 that the upgrade to 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1 Is necessary because of CVE-2020-6821 CVE-2020-6822 CVE-2020-6825 This does not look right? /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] less ;-)
Thanks for checking Mike. Retried and now it worked here as well. Sorry for the noise. Hard to tell what was wrong. /D -Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of dal Sent: den 12 april 2020 21:01 To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [DNG] less ;-) -Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Mike Schmitz via Dng Sent: den 11 april 2020 19:21 > > then the set of available packages seems to be quite short, lacking things > > like "less". looks ok from here: $ egrep "^deb " /etc/apt/sources.list && grep -l "Package: less" /var/lib/apt/lists/*Packages deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main non-free contrib deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main non-free contrib deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main non-free contrib /var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_beowulf-backports_main_binary-amd64_Packages /var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_beowulf_main_binary-amd64_Packages - AFAICS your "less" comes from beowulf-backports. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] less ;-)
-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Mike Schmitz via Dng Sent: den 11 april 2020 19:21 > > then the set of available packages seems to be quite short, lacking things > > like "less". looks ok from here: $ egrep "^deb " /etc/apt/sources.list && grep -l "Package: less" /var/lib/apt/lists/*Packages deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main non-free contrib deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main non-free contrib deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main non-free contrib /var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_beowulf-backports_main_binary-amd64_Packages /var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_beowulf_main_binary-amd64_Packages - AFAICS your "less" comes from beowulf-backports. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] more issues (RE: Beowulf Beta is here!)
-Original Message- Sent: den 9 april 2020 16:14 Hello and thanks for Beowulf. An issue: it looks like devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso and the base system installable from it do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities besides busybox ip?). The resulting base installation remains offline. - When I manually arrange networking and try to use deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main then the set of available packages seems to be quite short, lacking things like "less". What is wrong? /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!
Hello and thanks for Beowulf. An issue: it looks like devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso and the base system installable from it do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities besides busybox ip?). The resulting base installation remains offline. This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to be, most probably unintentionally. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of g4sra via Dng > Sent: den 7 april 2020 14:31 > zoom is not an evil company, unlike Google they do not set out to take your > data, they are just a bit security naive. How can you know/control what they will do with your data? Google is a troubled reference in this very sense, known for touting "not being evil". To remain on-topic, which is to recommend something good, we really should not suggest trusting one's data to a "security naïve" party (especially when its business is pretty much to act as a man-in-the-middle). /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?
> is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with Firefox (or > Vivaldi) on Devuan? The ones I have come in contact with. such als > https://global.gotomeeting.com/, work only with Windows or Mac and Chrome. If you have got Devuan, you do not have to resort to browsers for conferencing. As for audioconferencing or one-to-one video : qtox or another tox protocol client of your choice is the right tool. It is also available on most other platforms, for you contacts which are not on *n*x. /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Installer deficiency (was: netbooting Dev1)
> I can easily prepare such files from the so called "netboot" CD, but then I meant of course "netinst" CD. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Installer deficiency (was: netbooting Dev1)
> Do you want: > a, files for pxe style booting and installing > b, a minimal cd (or usb stick) which is booted locally, and take > the rest of the installation from the net > c, something that helps you install on a large number of computers > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar "a" I can easily prepare such files from the so called "netboot" CD, but then initramfs will be over 300MB, because it would have to include the whole install CD image, to be functional, an order of magnitude more than f.i. Debian's network boot media. I have high respect for Devuan and would like to deploy it on a larger scale, but the missing installer makes this less practical. Never mind, and thanks for your helpful attitude Karl. Regards, /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Installer deficiency (was: netbooting Dev1)
dal: > > This is about which media and how >> can be used to netboot Devuan at the installation time. I meant the boot media as vmlinuz + initramfs or an ISO or something bootable, i.e. the contents of that media. Devuan does not provide such installation media / data. It seems that netboot (pxe-style) is not a target scenario for Devuan, which is a shame. > As you wrote you have a lot of similar installations, I suggest you > make a model fs and copy (dd) it to the new disks. And then using > a selfmade script that sets up the config. Thanks for the suggestions Karl, I appreciate that you are giving me a hand, but these details are actually not what I looked for. I have a pretty solid ground for the choice of the technologies (disk copying is not applicable, for multiple reasons) but this thread is not about our systems. It is about a regrettable installer deficiency in Devuan. Regards /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] netbooting Dev1
Hello Karl, > From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of k...@aspodata.se > > > One is to make a very minimal, stable (reproducible in the sense > > of the same versions of the same package set) OS installation. > > Two is to install from the network with netboot (pxe/efi). > I have done some pxe booting and install in the past. > What do you need help with ? This is about which media and how can be used to netboot Devuan at the installation time. AFAICS the available installer is not capable of setting up networking without the installation CD iso at hand. This means it cannot proceed if netbooted. Did you succeed to install current Devuan with netboot? Thanks /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] netbooting Dev1
Dear all, I am facing a two-faceted challenge: One is to make a very minimal, stable (reproducible in the sense of the same versions of the same package set) OS installation. Two is to install from the network with netboot (pxe/efi). Debian has no installer which out-of-the-box could access the contents of an installation CD over the net, but the above is attainable by merging and tweaking the cd- and net-boot initrds, without actually building the installer from scratch. We tested this. Unfortunately Dev1 has no supported way (?) to be installed without pre-supplying a 300+ MB iso image to the target machine in some out-of-band way, like physically on a CD. An ideal solution would be to let the cd-installer contain the network-related tools inside the initramfs (like Debian netboot media does) and initialize the network before trying to access the data from the CD. Then it would be easy for us to replace the CD with secured remote data, which we have done with Debian. Otherwise, even a plain Debian-like netbootable installation media would do. Is there any practical way to reliably acquire or produce such a media, short of learning to be a Dev1 developer? A related question has been asked by someone else on https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3197 without any positive answer. The outfall can decide the OS for hundreds of coming installations, which is why I am asking the question before giving up and taking the pain of systemd brought along by Debian. Regards /D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
