Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 20:20:46 +0900, Olaf wrote in message 
<87sg66vm9d.fsf@quark>:

> Hi Steve,
> 
> # I'm not a systemd fan.  I just happen to run two Debian servers at
> the # office and gained some experience with systemd ... most of it
> the hard # and less than pleasant way :-/

...


> The issue is with systemd's log configuration, the gory details of
> which you can explore by going down the rabbit hole that starts at
> 
>   https://manpages.debian.org/buster/systemd/journald.conf.5.en.html
> 
> If you don't want the systemd-journald.service to log anything, just
> say
> 
>   Storage=none

..canary-bird-in-coal-mine idea: If you do _both_ ways described in
"Journal events can be transferred to a different logging daemon in 
two different ways." in the "FORWARDING TO TRADITIONAL SYSLOG DAEMONS" 
section of
https://manpages.debian.org/buster/systemd/journald.conf.5.en.html ,
and diff those 2 log streams, you should be able to catch any new
rabbit hole shenanigans.  Etc.  Not tested here.


> in journald.conf and be done with it.  Log messages are still
> forwarded to a syslog socket so if you have rsyslog installed you
> should be good.
> 
> Of course, switching to Devuan may be an easier long term solution :-)
> Or some other distro that let's you choose your prefered init system.



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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi Steve,

# I'm not a systemd fan.  I just happen to run two Debian servers at the
# office and gained some experience with systemd ... most of it the hard
# and less than pleasant way :-/

Steve Litt writes:

> On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 12:45:12 +0100
> Erich Minderlein via Dng  wrote:
>
>> Off Topic : the necessity has arisen
>> now, as systemd produces huge logfiles, 0,9 GByte in 10 hours worth
>> of log,
>
> By 0,9 GByte, do you mean nine tenths of a Gigabyte?
>
>> thens hold only last 10 hours due to space limitations (keeps
>> 10% free). These json-logs are a mess, except for illiterates.
>
> Has anybody else experienced such rapidly growing log files in systemd?
> I'd like to bring that up in discussions with dwobes who claim systemd
> is wonderful.

The rapidly growing log "files" aren't really systemd's fault.  The same
thing would happen if you tell rsyslog to dump *everything* in a single
file and you run the same set of services with the same settings.

Ok, so systemd produces a bunch of log messages itself that you would
not see on an otherwise identical Devuan machine.  But not of the order
of ~100Mb/hour, not by default at least.

The issue is with systemd's log configuration, the gory details of which
you can explore by going down the rabbit hole that starts at

  https://manpages.debian.org/buster/systemd/journald.conf.5.en.html

If you don't want the systemd-journald.service to log anything, just say

  Storage=none

in journald.conf and be done with it.  Log messages are still forwarded
to a syslog socket so if you have rsyslog installed you should be good.

Of course, switching to Devuan may be an easier long term solution :-)
Or some other distro that let's you choose your prefered init system.

Hope this helps,
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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Bernard Rosset via Dng]

Debian :
lsb_release -a
Distributor ID:    Debian
Description:    Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Release:    10
Codename:    buster
cat /etc/debian_version
10.7
aptitude show base-files
Package: base-files
Version: 10.3+deb10u7
Essential: yes
State: installed
...
Description: Debian base system miscellaneous files
...
devuan :
lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID:    Debian
Description:    Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
Release:    3
Codename:    beowulf
cat /etc/debian_version
10.0

While the system is up to date,
debian_version is misleading.
This is more a bug than a feature.
It takes some digging to see that.
The referencing to debian is not consistent.


I concur on this.


Better the file /etc/debian_version is missing @devuan than it is wrong.


That, however, may be debatable (would potentially break things?).

Since Devuan only repackages the minimal subset possible of Debian 
packages to free them from that systemd garbage, wouldn't it be possible 
to stay relatively close to the upstream minor version? Maybe by the 
means of automated grabn check & recompile an incremented patch version 
whenever needed?
This could be automated in a compilation farm, such as Jenkins (since 
GitLab's CD is not being used for the project).


Bernard (Beer) Rosset
https://rosset.net/
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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 12:45:12 +0100
Erich Minderlein via Dng  wrote:

> Off Topic : the necessity has arisen
> now, as systemd produces huge logfiles, 0,9 GByte in 10 hours worth
> of log, 

By 0,9 GByte, do you mean nine tenths of a Gigabyte?

> thens hold only last 10 hours due to space limitations (keeps
> 10% free). These json-logs are a mess, except for illiterates.

Has anybody else experienced such rapidly growing log files in systemd?
I'd like to bring that up in discussions with dwobes who claim systemd
is wonderful.

Thanks,
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi Erich,

Erich Minderlein via Dng writes:

> Hi all
> currently I operate one server with devuan beowulf and
> 2 Notebooks with debian buster.
> Migration is pending to devuan, as soon as a necessity arises, e.g. buster is 
> becoming oldstable.
>   Off Topic : the necessity has arisen now, as systemd produces huge 
> logfiles, 0,9 GByte in 10 hours worth of log,
>   thens hold only last 10 hours due to space limitations (keeps 10% 
> free). These json-logs are a mess, except for illiterates.

It is possible to cluebat systemd to "rotate" logs, IIRC, and even
preserve systemd logs across reboots.  I'd have to check our server at
the office for additional information but in the mean time, have "fun"
reading the systemd manual pages fan-out.

As for JSON logs, are you using journalctl to look at them?  IIRC, that
displays things in (almost) regular syslog format.

> I Noted that /etc/debian_version on the debian driven notebooks is at
> 10.7 , but on the devuan server it is still at 10.0

Debian released 10.8 last Saturday.

Hope this helps,
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[DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Erich Minderlein via Dng]

Hi all
currently I operate one server with devuan beowulf and
2 Notebooks with debian buster.
Migration is pending to devuan, as soon as a necessity arises, e.g. buster is 
becoming oldstable.
Off Topic : the necessity has arisen now, as systemd produces huge 
logfiles, 0,9 GByte in 10 hours worth of log,
thens hold only last 10 hours due to space limitations (keeps 10% 
free). These json-logs are a mess, except for illiterates.

I Noted that /etc/debian_version on the debian driven notebooks is at 10.7 , 
but on the devuan server it is still at 10.0

There are a number of files which contain info about the actual status of the 
installation

but the info in debian-basefiles, is misleading, as the system is uptodate 
otherwise.


Debian :
lsb_release -a
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Release:10
Codename:   buster
cat /etc/debian_version
10.7
aptitude show base-files
Package: base-files
Version: 10.3+deb10u7
Essential: yes
State: installed
...
Description: Debian base system miscellaneous files
...
devuan :
lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
Release:3
Codename:   beowulf
cat /etc/debian_version
10.0

While the system is up to date,
debian_version is misleading.
This is more a bug than a feature.
It takes some digging to see that.
The referencing to debian is not consistent.
Better the file /etc/debian_version is missing @devuan than it is wrong.

Change log for base-files package in Debian

base-files (10.3+deb10u7) buster; urgency=medium

  * Change /etc/debian_version to 10.7, for Debian 10.7 point release.

 -- Santiago Vila   Sun, 22 Nov 2020 13:37:00 +0100

base-files (10.3+deb10u6) buster; urgency=medium

  * Change /etc/debian_version to 10.6, for Debian 10.6 point release.

 -- Santiago Vila   Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:39:00 +0200

Change log for base-files package in Devuan

 Änderungen
#21 (20.04.2020 16:24:04)

Release beowulf: remove ceres from /etc/devuan_version. — leepen / detail
d/control: add myself to uploaders. — leepen / detail
Changelog for version 10.3+devuan3.4. — leepen / detail

#20 (28.03.2020 13:43:48)

Revert to ID=devuan in /etc/os-release (Closes: #411). — leepen / detail
Changelog for version 11+devuan2. — leepen / detail

#19 (23.02.2020 15:22:12)

Add Debian as parent in origins/devuan. — parazyd / detail



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mit freundlichen Grüßen
with the beste regards

cordialement

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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Jaromil]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2017, Emiliano Marini wrote:

>Oops, I didn't know that missing /etc/debian_version was a bug
>and sent a PR to certbot on GitHub to support Devuan:
>[1]https://github.com/certbot/certbot/pull/4515

thanks Emiliano! ideally we'd want all sorts of services reading that
file to acknowledge Devuan, since our distro may diverge from Debian
in a somehow far future, so I guess it should be a slow collective
effort to let more projects know the existance of /etc/devuan_version,
which we can anyway symlink as long as there aren't huge differences
with Debian (and who knows... at this pace they may rly go bonkers...)

ciao

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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Emiliano Marini]

Oops, I didn't know that missing /etc/debian_version was a bug and sent a
PR to certbot on GitHub to support Devuan:

https://github.com/certbot/certbot/pull/4515

It failed on a fresh Jessie install because it hadn't /etc/debian_version,
and I tought that was right for future releases, so I didn't want to
symlink /etc/devuan_version.

With a little change on certbot-auto I was able to successfuly create a
Let's Encrypt certificate from my Devuan box.

Cheers,
Emiliano.

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Jaromil  wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > cat: /etc/debian_version: no such file or directory.
> >
> > I can probably put that file back, and all would be good. However,
> > my question is what is still looking for that file during apt-get
> > dist-upgrade, and more to the point, how can I make this message
> > during upgrades stop without bringing back /etc/debian_version?
>
> Devuan does have already its own /etc/devuan_version which can be
> symlinked from /etc/debian_version especially since the correct value
> its jessie for both.
>
> Yet I believe we should file this as a bug as /etc/debian_version is
> not there on new installs. The /etc/debian_version file is checked by
> an enormous quantity of scripts in all sorts of deployements, we have
> encountered this problem also with Vagrant, that I remember. So we
> shall keep that file around and fill it with the Debian version we use
> to fallback packages in each release, that is so far:
>
> Jessie -> Jessie
> Ascii -> Stretch
>
> After Ascii is yet to be seen if we'll keep relying on Debian.
>
> ciao
>
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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 08:32:30PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 01:06:53PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> > Yet I believe we should file this as a bug as /etc/debian_version is
> > not there on new installs. The /etc/debian_version file is checked by
> > an enormous quantity of scripts in all sorts of deployements, we have
> > encountered this problem also with Vagrant, that I remember. So we
> > shall keep that file around and fill it with the Debian version we use
> > to fallback packages in each release, that is so far:
> 
> Thanks. File this as a bug where, debian or devuan, and against what 
> specifically?
> 


Hi Greg, All,

we have our own Bug Tracking System since a few weeks ago. It's at

  http://bugs.devuan.org

and is compatible with the one used at Debian. Bugs are filed using
the "reportbug" utility, or directly via email. Just check that you
have the last version of reportbug (6.6.3+devuan1.2) which is in the
main repo in jessie. That one knows about bugs.devuan.org (even if
some of the branding still says Debian).

HopeThisHelps

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 01:06:53PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> Yet I believe we should file this as a bug as /etc/debian_version is
> not there on new installs. The /etc/debian_version file is checked by
> an enormous quantity of scripts in all sorts of deployements, we have
> encountered this problem also with Vagrant, that I remember. So we
> shall keep that file around and fill it with the Debian version we use
> to fallback packages in each release, that is so far:

Thanks. File this as a bug where, debian or devuan, and against what 
specifically?

Greg


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Re: [DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Jaromil]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> cat: /etc/debian_version: no such file or directory.
> 
> I can probably put that file back, and all would be good. However,
> my question is what is still looking for that file during apt-get
> dist-upgrade, and more to the point, how can I make this message
> during upgrades stop without bringing back /etc/debian_version?

Devuan does have already its own /etc/devuan_version which can be
symlinked from /etc/debian_version especially since the correct value
its jessie for both.

Yet I believe we should file this as a bug as /etc/debian_version is
not there on new installs. The /etc/debian_version file is checked by
an enormous quantity of scripts in all sorts of deployements, we have
encountered this problem also with Vagrant, that I remember. So we
shall keep that file around and fill it with the Debian version we use
to fallback packages in each release, that is so far:

Jessie -> Jessie
Ascii -> Stretch

After Ascii is yet to be seen if we'll keep relying on Debian.

ciao

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[DNG] /etc/debian_version

[Gregory Nowak]

Hi all.

So I noticed that on systems upgraded to devuan jessie from debian
wheezy, I still have a /etc/debian_version. I don't have this file on a
couple devuan systems installed from scratch.

I figured I didn't need a /etc/debian_version reading 7.1.1 anymore,
so I blew it away on one of my upgraded systems. Nothing exploded when
I did this, except that when I do upgrades, I am seeing the message:

cat: /etc/debian_version: no such file or directory.

I can probably put that file back, and all would be good. However, my
question is what is still looking for that file during apt-get
dist-upgrade, and more to the point, how can I make this message
during upgrades stop without bringing back /etc/debian_version? Thanks
in advance for any input.

Greg


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