Re: [DNG] Keeping unneeded packages of your system (was Re: Advice to migrate from Beowulf to Chimaera)
Hi,
Alessandro Vesely via Dng writes:
> On Wed 28/Apr/2021 14:15:43 +0200 Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
>> What I did
>> find somewhat weird is that it asked whether I wanted to keep all of the
>> xserver-xorg-video-* individually when I had already said `Y` to the
>> `task-desktop` package. With `apt-mark` I just marked
>> `task-xfce-desktop` as manual and didn't have to make up my mind about
>> all the video drivers.
>
> Yes, I tried it and it asks lots of useless questions.
After I sent my post, I wondered whether that might just be caused by
them being alternatives. So, I checked
olaf@quark:~$ dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' task-xfce-desktop
tasksel (= 3.54+devuan4), task-desktop, xfce4, slim | lightdm
olaf@quark:~$ dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' task-desktop
tasksel (= 3.54+devuan4), xorg, xserver-xorg-video-all,
xserver-xorg-input-all, desktop-base
olaf@quark:~$ dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' xserver-xorg-video-all
xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu, xserver-xorg-video-ati, xserver-xorg-video-fbdev,
xserver-xorg-video-nouveau, xserver-xorg-video-vesa, xserver-xorg-video-vmware
Nope, it's not an issue caused by alternatives. All those video drivers
are hard dependencies of task-desktop. Ho-hum! But those aren't the
ones debfoster asked me about ... :thinking:
Upon closer inspection, there are a few Recommended: video drivers I
have installed courtesy of task-xfce-desktop as well and those were also
not asked about. Then why is e.g. xserver-xorg-video-cirrus kept
installed as an automatic package by apt whereas debfoster asks me
whether I want it kept installed?
I think it has to do with all those video drivers having a
Provides: xorg-driver-video
and the xserver-xorg package listing
xserver-xorg-video-all | xorg-driver-video
in its Depends:.
So whereas apt appears to work "bottom-up", checking for a manually
installed package that has a dependency on each package (irrespective of
the fact that another package may already satisfy the dependency), it
looks like debfoster works "top-down" and remembers already satisfied
dependencies so it asks if you really want *multiple* dependency
satisfying alternatives installed. Makes sense from a parsimony point
of view and I think I like that. I've got this feeling that I may be
using a combination of apt-mark and debfoster in the future ... or
looking for options to make apt-mark take alternatives into account.
I should also make a note about checking out deborphan and cruft ...
> Once I told it to remove Evolution (since I use Thunderbird), and it went on
> asking whether I wanted to keep each evolution plugin.
Could it be that you have something else that depends on or recommends
something generic, say evolution-plugin, like I discovered for my Xorg
server's video (and input) drivers that triggered this behaviour?
I use neither Evolution nor Thunderbird so don't have a clue.
> Of a smart package, I'd have expected to look at what packages are configured
> for day to day usage. There are several ways to do so, starting from the
> alternatives system, perhaps Firefox's handlers, recently accessed
> executables,
> whatever. And how about packages downloaded and installed outside of the apt
> system (typically libreoffice, I'd guess)?
I try to stay away from those and if I really, really need them, they
end up below /usr/local/.
For my personal needs, I sometimes want the latest versions of docker-ce
(instead of docker.io) or Kubernetes related packages. These project's
run their own APT repositories, so I hook those in and apt-mark (and
debfoster for that matter) should be fine.
> What I really missed is a percent indicator. How many questions are there
> ahead? I terminated with 'q'. Possibly, the only package it helped to remove
> is debfoster itself.
You could have started out with `debfoster -q` :-)
Check the manual page. There appear to be quite a few options to help
one get started with a decent `keepers` file but it make take a few
iterations, just as I did using apt-mark. I guess there's no silver
bullet here either ;-)
Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join
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Re: [DNG] Keeping unneeded packages of your system (was Re: Advice to migrate from Beowulf to Chimaera)
On Wed 28/Apr/2021 14:15:43 +0200 Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: What I did find somewhat weird is that it asked whether I wanted to keep all of the xserver-xorg-video-* individually when I had already said `Y` to the `task-desktop` package. With `apt-mark` I just marked `task-xfce-desktop` as manual and didn't have to make up my mind about all the video drivers. Yes, I tried it and it asks lots of useless questions. Once I told it to remove Evolution (since I use Thunderbird), and it went on asking whether I wanted to keep each evolution plugin. Of a smart package, I'd have expected to look at what packages are configured for day to day usage. There are several ways to do so, starting from the alternatives system, perhaps Firefox's handlers, recently accessed executables, whatever. And how about packages downloaded and installed outside of the apt system (typically libreoffice, I'd guess)? What I really missed is a percent indicator. How many questions are there ahead? I terminated with 'q'. Possibly, the only package it helped to remove is debfoster itself. Best Ale -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Keeping unneeded packages of your system (was Re: Advice to migrate from Beowulf to Chimaera)
Hi Dimitris, Dimitris via Dng writes: > Hey Olaf, > > Στις 22/4/21 11:55 π.μ., ο/η Olaf > Meeuwissen via Dng έγραψε: >> Is debfoster smart(er) about asking what you want to keep? As in asking >> you about the packages that keep most of the other packages installed >> first (rather than going through potential removals alphabetically)? > > yes. OK, so I installed it to see it action ;-) > debfoster only asks about installed packages : "Keep, Y/N" and keeps all > dependant installed packages on "Y" , or adds another question about > keeping dependencies on a "N". > after first succesful run, you're only asked about newly installed > packages from that moment on.. Ran it via `sudo debfoster` and answered all questions with `Y`. It produced a list that was about 20 packages shorter than my list of packages that I marked as manual (or installed afterwards). What I did find somewhat weird is that it asked whether I wanted to keep all of the xserver-xorg-video-* individually when I had already said `Y` to the `task-desktop` package. With `apt-mark` I just marked `task-xfce-desktop` as manual and didn't have to make up my mind about all the video drivers. Maybe it's just an issue of when I started using debfoster versus apt-mark. Also, I prefer to mark certain packages as manually installed even if one of those would keep the other(s) installed. That is to say that I like to mark all of git, myrepos and vcsh as manually installed even though the last of those keeps the others installed. Ditto for emacs, emacs-el and mu4e. It's a matter of marking what I want installed, independent of package dependencies. I haven't really used debfoster in that sense and I don't know how it works in conjuction with my `apt install` invocations. For apt-mark, any packages that I `apt install` are automatically marked as manual. There is no overhead for me. From a good glance at the debfoster man page, it looks like I have to run it separately (or get used to using debfoster for package management). Also, seeing that debfoster has only been updated thrice in the last decade I'm a bit concerned as to how well it has kept up with apt (which has been updated 217 times in the same period). Not saying debfoster is no use, just saying that I think that I'm fine with apt-mark even if it takes me a few passes the first time around to decide what I want/need to keep installed on my system. > debfoster installation has no real dependencies (just already installed > libc iirc) and it's just one command to run (=easy to remember). I know but it's still an extra package. As such, it needs to prove its worth :-) Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
