Re: [DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-28 Thread info at smallinnovations dot nl 

On 28-05-17 03:43, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 05:02:12PM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote:

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Hendrik Boom 
  wrote:


bash wasn't the original shell.


I really did start on Version 6 Unix. I think Version 7 was out by then,
but the NYIT Graphics Lab didn't ever switch their PDP-11s to it.

I think it was version 3 I started on, on a PDP-11 with about 48K or
RAM.  I'm not sure any more.  It was in 1974 or early 1975.

-- hendrik
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I started on Unix (SunOS) in 1989 and if remembering correctly you had 
the choice between csh, Bourne shell and Korn shell. Most shellscripts 
were build for Bourne shell because most examples used that. :-)


Grtz

Nick

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Re: [DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-27 Thread Steve Litt 
On Sat, 27 May 2017 15:58:49 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> init=/usr/bin/teco   ;->

An improvement over systemd.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2017 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-27 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 05:02:12PM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote:
> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Hendrik Boom 
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> > bash wasn't the original shell.
> 
> 
> I really did start on Version 6 Unix. I think Version 7 was out by then,
> but the NYIT Graphics Lab didn't ever switch their PDP-11s to it.

I think it was version 3 I started on, on a PDP-11 with about 48K or 
RAM.  I'm not sure any more.  It was in 1974 or early 1975.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-27 Thread zap 


On 05/27/2017 08:02 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Hendrik Boom  > wrote:
>
>
> bash wasn't the original shell. 
>
>  
> I really did start on Version 6 Unix. I think Version 7 was out by
> then, but the NYIT Graphics Lab didn't ever switch their PDP-11s to
> it. We did have the Ken Thompson shell. We did not have fsck, we used
> icheck, dcheck, ncheck, and clri. Imagine having a routinely used
> program that would clear an inode, because it had duplicate blocks in
> the free list. So, you needed to actually understand a lot more about
> the filesystem to repair it. A detached directory had to be
> reconnected by a systems programmer using adb.
>
> And we ran 4BSD on the first VAX to leave Digital, the one that got
> surreptitiously examined in "The Soul of a New Machine". Even on VAX
> BSD, the filesystems did not write in the correct order and had no
> journal.
>
> I later ported fsck from 2.8 BSD back to version 6 for that place. A
> lot of lost files surfaced overnight, and the operators didn't have to
> understand the filesystem any longer.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce

Can you not enjoy the delicious sarcasm of this thread!

:)

>
>
>
>
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Re: [DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-27 Thread Bruce Perens 
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Hendrik Boom 
 wrote:

>
> bash wasn't the original shell.


I really did start on Version 6 Unix. I think Version 7 was out by then,
but the NYIT Graphics Lab didn't ever switch their PDP-11s to it. We did
have the Ken Thompson shell. We did not have fsck, we used icheck, dcheck,
ncheck, and clri. Imagine having a routinely used program that would clear
an inode, because it had duplicate blocks in the free list. So, you needed
to actually understand a lot more about the filesystem to repair it. A
detached directory had to be reconnected by a systems programmer using adb.

And we ran 4BSD on the first VAX to leave Digital, the one that got
surreptitiously examined in "The Soul of a New Machine". Even on VAX BSD,
the filesystems did not write in the correct order and had no journal.

I later ported fsck from 2.8 BSD back to version 6 for that place. A lot of
lost files surfaced overnight, and the operators didn't have to understand
the filesystem any longer.

Thanks

Bruce
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Re: [DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-27 Thread Rick Moen 
Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com):

> You young whipper snapper!  Bash is for Stallmanite commies! The True
> Experienced Unix System Admin compiles the original Bourne shell from
> Bourne's original Algol-like macros, rather than the travesty of C (the
> Bournegol documentation is at http://oldhome.schmorp.de/marc/bournegol.html,
> not that real men _need_ documentation).

init=/usr/bin/teco   ;->

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[DNG] Newbies threaten our purity :-)

2017-05-27 Thread Bruce Perens 
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Rick Moen  wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> > Personally, I find that bash makes a fabulous file manager, along with
> > its friends find, awk, sed, cut, etc.


You young whipper snapper!  Bash is for Stallmanite commies! The True
Experienced Unix System Admin compiles the original Bourne shell from
Bourne's original Algol-like macros, rather than the travesty of C (the
Bournegol documentation is at http://oldhome.schmorp.de/marc/bournegol.html,
not that real men _need_ documentation).
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