Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 04.08.2016 11:33, Robert Storey wrote:

> So now Linux does have a Registry, and perhaps it's even more complex
> and opaque than the one in Windows. I assume this is what the Lennart
> disciples mean when they say (with a look of ecstasy on their faces)
> that systemd has finally made Linux a "modern" operating system.

Wait ... it's yet not modern enogugh - for that it needs to be
all written in c++11 w/ boost ...


--mtx

___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[fsmithred]

On 08/03/2016 11:37 PM, BRM wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:35 PM, Rainer Weikusat 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>  > Rowland Penny  (by way of Rowland Penny 
> ) writes: > > So, a user was complaining over on the 
> Samba mailing list, that the > > Samba wiki page about creating a new AD DC 
> wasn't much use with fedora. > > I set up fedora 24 and tried to give it a 
> fixed ip (part of which was> > removing networkmanager), set everything up 
> and rebooted, I then found > > I couldn't connect to the network, checks 
> found that /etc/resolv.conf > > had disappeared. > > When I tried to create a 
> new one, I couldn't, it wouldn't let me!! > > A quick trawl of the internet 
> led to an interesting fact, systemd now > > mounts /etc read-only and if 
> /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd > > creates a dangling symlink. 
>  > > You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ? > My 
> guess would be: Because people aren't supposed to change the 'legacy > 
> configuration' directly but use the proper systemd commands instead. One > 
> could also assume that this is to protect systemd from changes it > couldn't 
> parse.
> Well, as a software developer that produces software with config files under 
> /etc that is just outright wrong.I went to Linux b/c I have control. If I 
> wanted to give up control, I'd use Windows.
> 
> Ben
>

You could put your config files in /boot/efi, which is mounted rw.

-fsr


___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 12:49:44PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote:

[cut]

> 
> A quick trawl of the internet led to an interesting fact, systemd now
> mounts /etc read-only and if /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd
> creates a dangling symlink. 
> 
> You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ?
> 

That's quite silly, I am not indeed interested in what the
systemd-folks have decide to throw in the face of their users, but I
guess that nothing prevents you from remounting /etc rw, or maybe
there is also a way of telling systemd that you'd prefer to have /etc
mounted always rw? Another option would be to not have a separate
/etc.

What would be quite dangerous is having systemd decide autonomously
whether a certain partition should be mounted in ro or not, or worse,
forcing the users to have /etc in a separate partiton, so that systemd
can decide to mount it ro. Again, useless complications to solve
non-existing problems in the most stupid way possible...

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Robert Storey]

> From: "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" 
>
> Oh, BTW, I wonder when they merge gconf into systemd and so make that
> bad registry idea (which was one of the major reason of many people
> switching to unix/linux) mandatory ...
>
>> Making /etc, the equivalent of the Windows Registry in Linux, read
>> only, renders system administrators  powerless whatever their
>> knowledge and experience.
>
>Maybe that the actual purpose behind the whole project ...

I don't if I should laugh or cry. Yes indeed, the Windows Registry mess
that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me - it got me started
looking at Linux. There were other things I didn't like about Windows
(security holes, blue screen of death, etc), but the Registry seemed like a
bad joke. And yet I've been reading over the years in various blogs and
articles (by "experts") that one of the problems of Linux was that it
didn't have a Registry.

So now Linux does have a Registry, and perhaps it's even more complex and
opaque than the one in Windows. I assume this is what the Lennart disciples
mean when they say (with a look of ecstasy on their faces) that systemd has
finally made Linux a "modern" operating system.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Rowland Penny]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 09:59:16 +0200
tigges  wrote:

> Hi, can you provide a link?
> 
> I did only find about "systemd mounts /sys read-only".
> 
> I want to share this infomation with our company administrators, to 
> ensure that we won't switch to systemd..
> 
> Thanks
> 


This is what I found :

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1350450
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Edward Bartolo]

Rowland Penny wrote:
<<
A quick trawl of the internet led to an interesting fact, systemd now
mounts /etc read-only and if /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd
creates a dangling symlink.
>>

Even MS Windows allowed modification of the registry using regedit.exe
but SystemD developers decided on the preventive!

Yes, Mr Poettering, I agree wholeheartedly that users/sys admins MUST
have both their hands tied behind their back.

Making /etc, the equivalent of the Windows Registry in Linux, read
only, renders system administrators  powerless whatever their
knowledge and experience.

Good, our revenue from support will have to increase!
Good move! You have a wage increase for that!


-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Albert Einstein
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[BRM]

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:35 PM, Rainer Weikusat  
wrote:


 > Rowland Penny  (by way of Rowland Penny 
 > ) writes: > > So, a user was complaining over on the 
 > Samba mailing list, that the > > Samba wiki page about creating a new AD DC 
 > wasn't much use with fedora. > > I set up fedora 24 and tried to give it a 
 > fixed ip (part of which was> > removing networkmanager), set everything up 
 > and rebooted, I then found > > I couldn't connect to the network, checks 
 > found that /etc/resolv.conf > > had disappeared. > > When I tried to create 
 > a new one, I couldn't, it wouldn't let me!! > > A quick trawl of the 
 > internet led to an interesting fact, systemd now > > mounts /etc read-only 
 > and if /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd > > creates a dangling 
 > symlink. 
 > > You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ? > My guess 
 > > would be: Because people aren't supposed to change the 'legacy > 
 > > configuration' directly but use the proper systemd commands instead. One > 
 > > could also assume that this is to protect systemd from changes it > 
 > > couldn't parse.
Well, as a software developer that produces software with config files under 
/etc that is just outright wrong.I went to Linux b/c I have control. If I 
wanted to give up control, I'd use Windows.

Ben
   ___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Rainer Weikusat]

Rowland Penny  (by way of Rowland Penny 
) writes:
> So, a user was complaining over on the Samba mailing list, that the
> Samba wiki page about creating a new AD DC wasn't much use with fedora.
>
> I set up fedora 24 and tried to give it a fixed ip (part of which was
> removing networkmanager), set everything up and rebooted, I then found
> I couldn't connect to the network, checks found that /etc/resolv.conf
> had disappeared.
>
> When I tried to create a new one, I couldn't, it wouldn't let me!!
>
> A quick trawl of the internet led to an interesting fact, systemd now
> mounts /etc read-only and if /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd
> creates a dangling symlink. 
>
> You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ?

My guess would be: Because people aren't supposed to change the 'legacy
configuration' directly but use the proper systemd commands instead. One
could also assume that this is to protect systemd from changes it
couldn't parse.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[dev]

On 08/03/2016 06:49 AM, Rowland Penny (by way of Rowland Penny 
) wrote:

You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ?



For server hardening, sometimes partitions are mounted r/o or with 
special flags (eg: noexec, nosuid) in order to make it more difficult 
for an attacker to manipulate filesystem objects.


That said, the Fedora incident you mention was likely another "flat 
tire" situation rather than anything done in the interest of security.


As far as I know, Fedora has always been an incubator of the bizzare and 
unnatural. Trying to pin down any issues on that platform rarely nets 
any advantage for anything more than sadistic amusement.


___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Rowland Penny]

So, a user was complaining over on the Samba mailing list, that the
Samba wiki page about creating a new AD DC wasn't much use with fedora.

I set up fedora 24 and tried to give it a fixed ip (part of which was
removing networkmanager), set everything up and rebooted, I then found
I couldn't connect to the network, checks found that /etc/resolv.conf
had disappeared.

When I tried to create a new one, I couldn't, it wouldn't let me!!

A quick trawl of the internet led to an interesting fact, systemd now
mounts /etc read-only and if /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd
creates a dangling symlink. 

You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ?

Rowland 
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng