Re: [DNG] Please stop this nonsense - Was: Re: Formail for managing digests
On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 11:12:37 +0100 Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > > Or perhaps IBM will get sick of this schtick and make Redhat dump > > systemd. Write IBM's CEO. > > I am starting to get sick of this nonsense. Not my problem. Take an Alka-Seltzer. > Either you do not understand unregulated liberal capitalism in its > essence, motives & goals, or you play dumb. It is not a question, not > even rhetorical. So sorry to have offended your political sensibilities. > Just... stop. Please? Oh, I'll keep saying it, because I'm pretty sure I'm right. [snip] > That's for the destructive/ranting part. > > > Now, on to the constructive/positive part. :-) Oh great, now I need to remove the procmail to /dev/null I just put on you. Because you're very right about actions, and you're taking actions. SteveT Steve Litt November 2019 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting Second edition http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Please stop this nonsense - Was: Re: Formail for managing digests
dear Bernard, thanks for your mail, I find it frank and constructive overall On Thu, 28 Nov 2019, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > On top of that, add uncertainty on Devuan's future & demotivating > peremptory statements ("I'm sure Devuan will not survive without > Debian's help.") and I am close to be utterly certain we are > colliding with a wall down the road. noone here will build that wall, but we should be aware is getting built and I believe that, even if its a shock to see it, its still better than continue to drive while not seeing it. this is also about the responsibility we have taken, which isn't small: many people trust Devuan for its demonstrated stability. we should never betray who really trust us and is able to see beyond an april fool's joke gone awol. in case we cannot make it, we shall admit it IMHO. I have *personally* admitted to see a wall that is hard to circumvent and I want that people building that wall know well what they are doing. Also makes me happy to see a growing amount of thinkering to solve the situation and avoid an arms race which we'd lose: the discussion on converting systemd units is a good example of a qualitative solution at hand. There are well skilled people listening and they may decide to help Devuan. I would love to be proven wrong on my beliefs and prefer to be depicted as an idiot here than to see Devuan die. Been through that anyway. So, we will not go easy through that good night. But Debian developers should really know their responsibilities. I believe many of them have a strong ethical sense about what they are doing. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Please stop this nonsense - Was: Re: Formail for managing digests
On 2019-11-28 04:12, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: Or perhaps IBM will get sick of this schtick and make Redhat dump systemd. Write IBM's CEO. I am starting to get sick of this nonsense. Either you do not understand unregulated liberal capitalism in its Amen to that! --- Now, on to the constructive/positive part. Problems are solved by actions... and I am a bit short-sighted on that part. I did put a files mirror up - which I am yet to drive into being officially registered. If https://devuan.rosset.eu.org/ is your mirror, it has been available on https://devuan.org/get-devuan since November 23. I might set a packages mirror up once I can secure enough disk space on a 24/7-available location. Wonderful! Talk to Evilham and onefang. Those are the only *actions* I did to try to help Devuan's project. And we thank you for that I noticed golinux propagated on this very list a set of actions (to be) done about Devuan's infrastructure. This was refreshing and gave perspective. Thanks for that little piece of hope. Lists are "feel good" but do not actually solve the problems. Was this coming from the devuan-dev ML? I naively thought this was related to *development*... and I am no coder. If not, is there a non-officially-promoted ML to join? Is there a way to give a hand on infrastructure-wise projects, like services or pipes to set up? Most of the discussion happens on irc, at the weekly meets or one on one. I guess this init privation/privatization nightmare can only be solved through actual people doing actual thingys. This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I believe everyone being eternally grateful for the very sole existence of Devuan and to the people being responsible for that to happen, as I am, shall be talking less (especially tackling nonsense) & act more. Yes, this is the solution. Please talk to us and find a niche where you can apply your creative talents. You can OM me any time. Bernard Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Please stop this nonsense - Was: Re: Formail for managing digests
All I read on this ML these days are ethereal hopes people fervently supporting systemd's madness and/or having strongly invested in it, or tools attempting at transforming poop in platinum. All I read on this ML these days are ethereal hopes people fervently supporting systemd's madness and/or having strongly invested in it *will stop doing so*, or tools attempting at transforming poop in platinum. Bernard Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Please stop this nonsense - Was: Re: Formail for managing digests
Or perhaps IBM will get sick of this schtick and make Redhat dump systemd. Write IBM's CEO. I am starting to get sick of this nonsense. Either you do not understand unregulated liberal capitalism in its essence, motives & goals, or you play dumb. It is not a question, not even rhetorical. Just... stop. Please? All I read on this ML these days are ethereal hopes people fervently supporting systemd's madness and/or having strongly invested in it, or tools attempting at transforming poop in platinum. On top of that, add uncertainty on Devuan's future & demotivating peremptory statements ("I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help.") and I am close to be utterly certain we are colliding with a wall down the road. Then, the icing on the cake, threads dealing with emails are being mixed/split in an incoherent fashion *and* their content do not reflect their subject. It is so over the top it almost looks like a prank? That's for the destructive/ranting part. --- Now, on to the constructive/positive part. Problems are solved by actions... and I am a bit short-sighted on that part. I did put a files mirror up - which I am yet to drive into being officially registered. I might set a packages mirror up once I can secure enough disk space on a 24/7-available location. Those are the only *actions* I did to try to help Devuan's project. I noticed golinux propagated on this very list a set of actions (to be) done about Devuan's infrastructure. This was refreshing and gave perspective. Thanks for that little piece of hope. Was this coming from the devuan-dev ML? I naively thought this was related to *development*... and I am no coder. If not, is there a non-officially-promoted ML to join? Is there a way to give a hand on infrastructure-wise projects, like services or pipes to set up? These questions are asked in a very personal fashion, but I believe I am not alone in my corner, unbelievingly staring at all the fuss on this ML. I guess this init privation/privatization nightmare can only be solved through actual people doing actual thingys. I believe everyone being eternally grateful for the very sole existence of Devuan and to the people being responsible for that to happen, as I am, shall be talking less (especially tackling nonsense) & act more. Bernard Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng