Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On 27/08/15 15:09, Steve Litt wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:58:14 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 17:29 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Sun 26 July 2015 23:18:58 Steve Litt wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. +1 /j Steve, what is the current development status of your promised tool? I just did a little work on it, and then realized there's a package that might do this for us, in a better way than I'd anticipated. Please try the pmount package, and see if that fulfills your automount needs. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt There is also udevil (nothing to do with udev) David ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On 08/26/2015 01:08 PM, Go Linux wrote: On Wed, 8/26/15, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2015, 11:31 AM On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:58:14 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 17:29 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Sun 26 July 2015 23:18:58 Steve Litt wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. +1 /j Steve, what is the current development status of your promised tool? I haven't started it yet. Only about 4 people have said they wanted it. SteveT Excuses, excuses . . . ;) OK. Add me to the list. I wanna see you do this!! golinux ___ [[ SIX = me too ]] Steve, Think like a politician - every letter someone sends is worth 10 voters (local), 100 voters (state), or 1000 voters (federal). Or think of us as cockroaches - for every one you see, there are 10 behind the wall. fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:58:14 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 17:29 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Sun 26 July 2015 23:18:58 Steve Litt wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. +1 /j Steve, what is the current development status of your promised tool? I just did a little work on it, and then realized there's a package that might do this for us, in a better way than I'd anticipated. Please try the pmount package, and see if that fulfills your automount needs. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:58:14 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 17:29 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Sun 26 July 2015 23:18:58 Steve Litt wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. +1 /j Steve, what is the current development status of your promised tool? I haven't started it yet. Only about 4 people have said they wanted it. SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 00:09:45 -0400 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Cheer up Svante. This isn't for your corporation's web servers, it's for the guy with a desktop, the system's only user, a guy who already has root but just doesn't want to do su all the time, who just wants automounting to happen. That guy would be me. I think that xfce4 with automounting enabled will cover most of us desktop/laptop users as a (suggested) default. xfce4 works with 2d or even VESA video and so can work on older machines. xfce4 can be made to look like Windows XP (panel at the bottom, notifications on the right and applications on a menu on the left) which almost all of my family, friends, neighbours and students are familiar with. That reduces the 'unfamiliarity' of e.g. a laptop handed round a meeting or an old desktop in a cafe for Web surfing. cheers -- keithpeter ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 09:29:09AM +0100, kpb wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 00:09:45 -0400 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Cheer up Svante. This isn't for your corporation's web servers, it's for the guy with a desktop, the system's only user, a guy who already has root but just doesn't want to do su all the time, who just wants automounting to happen. That guy would be me. I think that xfce4 with automounting enabled will cover most of us desktop/laptop users as a (suggested) default. xfce4 works with 2d or even VESA video and so can work on older machines. xfce4 can be made to look like Windows XP (panel at the bottom, notifications on the right and applications on a menu on the left) which almost all of my family, friends, neighbours and students are familiar with. That reduces the 'unfamiliarity' of e.g. a laptop handed round a meeting or an old desktop in a cafe for Web surfing. I genuinely don't understand the familiarity argument, at all. Any Windows XP user is able to get around with the OSX GUI in a few hours, and will probably master it in two days. And the OSX GUI is the farthest thing you can imagine from Windows XP Isn't it that we have been too much concerned about how dumb a dumb user can be? Or is it just that GNOME, KDE Co. ended up sucking really a lot in their psychotic quest to emulate other GUIs instead of proposing something genuinely new when they had the opportunity to do so? The last true revolution in GUIs was NeXTSTEP, 25 years ago. What came after was just a plethora of mix-and-match of existing things... YetAnotherRant KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Tue, 2015-07-28 at 00:09 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:10:29 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: Mounting should be restricted to only the most experienced users, never embedded in the software so every user can across the board. The default setup on too many Linux machines reminds me of Windows. Too sad to see this on GNU/Linux :( Cheer up Svante. This isn't for your corporation's web servers, it's for the guy with a desktop, the system's only user, a guy who already has root but just doesn't want to do su all the time, who just wants automounting to happen. To clarify: The annoying issue with windows is that e.g. if you put in a CD in the reader, some application starts automatically depending on the CD contents. This behaviour as default is also annoying on GNU/Linux. There are a million different use cases, and on some of them automounting makes sense. Other times, running a command as a normal user makes more sense. Other times, only someone with root should be mounting. Even if automounting sometimes makes sense, it should be easy configurable! I have not found that on Windows OS versions, maybe I did not dig enough. However, on Devuan GNU/Linux that would be adding value to user experience. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 11:38:08 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-07-28 at 00:09 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:10:29 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: Mounting should be restricted to only the most experienced users, never embedded in the software so every user can across the board. The default setup on too many Linux machines reminds me of Windows. Too sad to see this on GNU/Linux :( Cheer up Svante. This isn't for your corporation's web servers, it's for the guy with a desktop, the system's only user, a guy who already has root but just doesn't want to do su all the time, who just wants automounting to happen. To clarify: The annoying issue with windows is that e.g. if you put in a CD in the reader, some application starts automatically depending on the CD contents. This behaviour as default is also annoying on GNU/Linux. I would never, ever, EVER enable automatic application start upon media/device insertion. My mama didn't raise no fool. I was only talking about mounting the thing to /mnt/whatever. That's all. There are a million different use cases, and on some of them automounting makes sense. Other times, running a command as a normal user makes more sense. Other times, only someone with root should be mounting. Even if automounting sometimes makes sense, it should be easy configurable! I have not found that on Windows OS versions, maybe I did not dig enough. However, on Devuan GNU/Linux that would be adding value to user experience. The thing I envision is configurable in that if you don't want it you don't install it :-). I spoze it wouldn't be too difficult to enable the user to define which /dev devices get automounted. SteveT Steve Litt July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:51:08 +0100 KatolaZ kato...@freaknet.org wrote: xfce4 can be made to look like Windows XP (panel at the bottom, notifications on the right and applications on a menu on the left) which almost all of my family, friends, neighbours and students are familiar with. That reduces the 'unfamiliarity' of e.g. a laptop handed round a meeting or an old desktop in a cafe for Web surfing. I genuinely don't understand the familiarity argument, at all. I think I can explain it. Any Windows XP user is able to get around with the OSX GUI in a few hours, and will probably master it in two days. I've always had a lot of trouble operating Macs. And the OSX GUI is the farthest thing you can imagine from Windows XP I don't see it that way. IIRC OSX has a start menu, which is the major user interface entry point of Win95/XP. To me, things that are far from Windows XP are Windowmaker, Unity, Gnome3, and TWM. No start menu, and in the cases of Unity and Gnome3, no deterministic menu at all: The menu depends on past usage (you can't make this up, folks). Isn't it that we have been too much concerned about how dumb a dumb user can be? Of course we've been much to concerned about how dumb a dumb user can be. However, in the case of window managers, not so much. I hate Bill Gates. But I have to give him one thing: When he was designing Win95, he had a bunch of users sit down and work, and M$ people watched. For Win95, Bill Gates came up with a UI that was pure genius: A start menu button that said start, and then you get walked level by level through a menu. It's just plain obvious, and there are no downsides. I don't know why so many window managers, and Windows itself, walked away from that interface. You could take a newly arrived Martian, sit him down at a Win95 (or default LXDE) computer, and he'd just start working. Or is it just that GNOME, KDE Co. ended up sucking really a lot in their psychotic quest to emulate other GUIs instead of proposing something genuinely new when they had the opportunity to do so? AFAIK, KDE is still a Win95 type interface with a deterministic start menu. I banned all KDE libraries from my computers for a completely different reason. Gnome is a perfect example of your observation of sucking a really a lot in their psychotic quest to emulate other GUIs. When Win7 came out with that fuzzy we know what you want menu, Gnome switched from the Gnome2 deterministic start menu to the Gnome3 hey, relax, we know what you want, just go with the flow interface. The last true revolution in GUIs was NeXTSTEP, 25 years ago. What came after was just a plethora of mix-and-match of existing things... If Windowmaker at all resembles NeXTStep, I'm not a fan. After a decade of trying, Windowmaker is still unfathomable to me. Also, what's so great about new? I'd prefer good to new every day of the week, and personally, I've seen little positive or negative correllation between new and good. But I digress: We're talking about the *default* window manager. It should be something obvious, and Xfce configured with a start button and taskbar is obvious. From there, you can switch to a NeXTStep type thing, and I can switch to a modified Openbox plus dmenu. Neither of which I'd wish on an uninitiated user. SteveT Steve Litt July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
What he said! My laptop and my desktop will be easy to use. Multi-user systems are a different kettle of fish. Security has to take to take precedence, but make it too difficult and nobody will use your new OS in the first place... DaveT On 27/07/15 16:49, Robert Storey wrote: On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. Count me in, now we are three wanting it, including yourself. Well, I definitely want it. Not sure if I'm counted in the original three, or if I make four. 2015-07-27 11:45 GMT+02:00 Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org mailto:jaro...@dyne.org: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Svante Signell wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. No one is more paranoid when it comes to security than me. But as for the security risk of automount, I only see it as a problem if we are talking about a multi-user system in an organization. A single user at home is a likely scenario for many of us. Ideally, automount is something that a user should be able to easily configure. If you'd rather have click-to-mount or fully manual mount, that's fine. I don't see why it should be any more difficult than editing a text configuration file (or clicking a box in a gui) to change the setting. cheers, Robert ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. Count me in, now we are three wanting it, including yourself. Well, I definitely want it. Not sure if I'm counted in the original three, or if I make four. 2015-07-27 11:45 GMT+02:00 Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Svante Signell wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. No one is more paranoid when it comes to security than me. But as for the security risk of automount, I only see it as a problem if we are talking about a multi-user system in an organization. A single user at home is a likely scenario for many of us. Ideally, automount is something that a user should be able to easily configure. If you'd rather have click-to-mount or fully manual mount, that's fine. I don't see why it should be any more difficult than editing a text configuration file (or clicking a box in a gui) to change the setting. cheers, Robert ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
2015-07-27 11:45 GMT+02:00 Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Svante Signell wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. Couldn't agree more! me too... On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. Count me in, now we are three wanting it, including yourself. worth mentioning here, in relation to the sudo and mount deps above, that 'pmount' the perl wrapper that enables users to mount devices without root is left unmaintained, last release tagget 0.9.99-alpha https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pmount I think is worthed reviving esp. because it allows users to loop-mount iso files, something that is not possible via 'user' option in fstab wow! Its magic? https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pmount/pmount-debian.git/tree/src/Makefile.am $(INSTALL_DATA) -o root -g root -m 4755 -D $(INSTALL_SRC)/pmount $(INSTALL_DIR)/pmount ^ no... just suid :) Daniel ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:10:29 +0200 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: That's a very gracious offer, Steve, and I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated. =) If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. Couldn't agree more! Mounting should be restricted to only the most experienced users, never embedded in the software so every user can across the board. The default setup on too many Linux machines reminds me of Windows. Too sad to see this on GNU/Linux :( Cheer up Svante. This isn't for your corporation's web servers, it's for the guy with a desktop, the system's only user, a guy who already has root but just doesn't want to do su all the time, who just wants automounting to happen. There are a million different use cases, and on some of them automounting makes sense. Other times, running a command as a normal user makes more sense. Other times, only someone with root should be mounting. SteveT Steve Litt July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: That's a very gracious offer, Steve, and I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated. =) If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. Couldn't agree more! Mounting should be restricted to only the most experienced users, never embedded in the software so every user can across the board. The default setup on too many Linux machines reminds me of Windows. Too sad to see this on GNU/Linux :( On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. SteveT Count me in, now we are three wanting it, including yourself. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] automount Was: Re: A better default windows manager
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Svante Signell wrote: On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. Couldn't agree more! me too... On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: You can roll your own automount with one day's work using inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk, and the mount command. Works without X or window manager. Heck, I'll do it myself if more than 20 people want it. Count me in, now we are three wanting it, including yourself. worth mentioning here, in relation to the sudo and mount deps above, that 'pmount' the perl wrapper that enables users to mount devices without root is left unmaintained, last release tagget 0.9.99-alpha https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pmount I think is worthed reviving esp. because it allows users to loop-mount iso files, something that is not possible via 'user' option in fstab ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
