Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On 28/08/17 01:03, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 06:51:24 +0100 Dave Turnerwrote: I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) Very nice! I installed eudev Did you install eudev simply by apt-get install udev? Were there any other steps? and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. This means that udev won't run on boot. Did /etc/init.d/eudev exist, or did you just not have a daemon? [snip] For sound I installed flac, alsa-utils, and the ncurses media player moc. alsa-utils includes alsa-mixer and that let me un-mute the sound. And it works! I think the docs on alsa and sound on linux have become divorced from reality over the years, I know how to read and follow instructions, I should have been able to do this years ago. I had to do it by trial and error! Dave, a cool move on your part would be to document exactly how you did the setup described in the preceding paragraph. Until Devuan gets their documentation act together, I'd suggest publishing your documentation on a website controlled by you, so that it's permanent. A whole heck of a lot of people want to have a simple, no-nonsense sound setup like you describe. I'm one of them. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I have written up most of what I have done. I was thinking that dev1galaxy.org was the best place to put it. The web-browser on my iMac is dillo which is fast and light and nice to use for many things - and utterly useless for other things so Palemoon will be the next install, followed by VLC so I can watch DVDs again. I fully expect my system will get polluted by systemd and probably pulseaudio too, we'll see! DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 06:51:24 +0100 Dave Turnerwrote: > I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no > pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) Very nice! > > I installed eudev Did you install eudev simply by apt-get install udev? Were there any other steps? > and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. This means that udev won't run on boot. Did /etc/init.d/eudev exist, or did you just not have a daemon? [snip] > > For sound I installed flac, alsa-utils, and the ncurses media player > moc. alsa-utils includes alsa-mixer and that let me un-mute the > sound. And it works! I think the docs on alsa and sound on linux have > become divorced from reality over the years, I know how to read and > follow instructions, I should have been able to do this years ago. I > had to do it by trial and error! Dave, a cool move on your part would be to document exactly how you did the setup described in the preceding paragraph. Until Devuan gets their documentation act together, I'd suggest publishing your documentation on a website controlled by you, so that it's permanent. A whole heck of a lot of people want to have a simple, no-nonsense sound setup like you describe. I'm one of them. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 at 12:41:49 -0400 Hendrik Boomwrote: > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 10:36:16AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> So, this is again an advice that should be obvious for anyone, bold >> enough to delete parts of the file system, that can result in system >> breakage. >> >> There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create >> archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a >> tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you >> will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In >> the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to >> repair the damage restoring bootability. > > Assuming, of course, that you have some other way of booting the > machine so you can still run commands to restore the files. It depends by the severity of the malfunction. You could have damaged the system not badly enought to prevent you from getting a login terminal. An emergency boot partition or device is always a good thing to have, anyway. Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
Den 26/08/2017 18:41, skrev Hendrik Boom: > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 10:36:16AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create >> archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a >> tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you >> will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In >> the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to >> repair the damage restoring bootability. > > Assuming, of course, that you have some other way of booting the > machine so you can still run commands to restore the files. You always have a live dvd/usbstick to boot from. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 10:36:16AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > So, this is again an advice that should be obvious for anyone, bold > enough to delete parts of the file system, that can result in system > breakage. > > There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create > archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a > tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you > will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In > the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to > repair the damage restoring bootability. Assuming, of course, that you have some other way of booting the machine so you can still run commands to restore the files. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
Edward Bartolo [2017-08-26 10:36]: > So, this is again an advice that should be obvious for anyone, bold > enough to delete parts of the file system, that can result in system > breakage. > > There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create > archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a > tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you > will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In > the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to > repair the damage restoring bootability. Or simply rename the directories instead of deleting them. If everything works after a boot, delete the directories then. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On 26/08/17 09:05, Ralph Ronnquist wrote: Svante Signell wrote on 26/08/17 16:57: On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 06:51 +0100, Dave Turner wrote: I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) I installed eudev and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. ... udev is gone and is replaced by eudev. I left the udev files in place in /etc /lib because no eudev files had appeared so I think eudev makes use of the udev files. I felt disinclined to break the system again by deleting them! But if anyone can confirm or deny that would be nice. Hi David, You can check the contents of eudev yourself: dpkg -L eudev gives you the list of installed files. It's also worth to note that many files in /lib/udev/rules.d belong to various other packages; they add their own configuration to udev in support of hotplugging their things. I think you do best in leaving them intact for eudev to use. Files in /etc/udev/rules.d are notionally your sysadmin's poetry, with site local configuration, and likewise, should probably be kept as well. Ralph. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng OK, dpkg -L eudev gives a long list of files mainly in /lib/udev/, I'll be leaving those alone then... Once bitten twice shy, after the 1st breakage I copied everything from /etc and /lib and /usr that I thought I might need into ~/SAFE/ . Happily I didn't need it. Thanks for the help, in the next week or so I will be installing X11 and polluting the iMac with libsystemd0. DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
So, this is again an advice that should be obvious for anyone, bold enough to delete parts of the file system, that can result in system breakage. There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to repair the damage restoring bootability. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
Svante Signell wrote on 26/08/17 16:57: On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 06:51 +0100, Dave Turner wrote: I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) I installed eudev and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. ... udev is gone and is replaced by eudev. I left the udev files in place in /etc /lib because no eudev files had appeared so I think eudev makes use of the udev files. I felt disinclined to break the system again by deleting them! But if anyone can confirm or deny that would be nice. Hi David, You can check the contents of eudev yourself: dpkg -L eudev gives you the list of installed files. It's also worth to note that many files in /lib/udev/rules.d belong to various other packages; they add their own configuration to udev in support of hotplugging their things. I think you do best in leaving them intact for eudev to use. Files in /etc/udev/rules.d are notionally your sysadmin's poetry, with site local configuration, and likewise, should probably be kept as well. Ralph. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 06:51 +0100, Dave Turner wrote: > > I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no > pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) > I installed eudev and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. ... > udev is gone and is replaced by eudev. I left the udev files in place > in /etc /lib because no eudev files had appeared so I think eudev > makes use of the udev files. I felt disinclined to break the system > again by deleting them! But if anyone can confirm or deny that would > be nice. Hi David, You can check the contents of eudev yourself: dpkg -L eudev gives you the list of installed files. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
Dave Turner wrote: > I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no > pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) > I installed eudev and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. That's great. > I can cope with twm and I really like ctwm so I was shocked when I realised > that the version of ctwm in debian is 10 years old! Version 4.0.1 was > released by the ctwm people in June this year. I had to download the code > and compile it. I used 'checkinstall' to create the package and it works > too! Obviously that was a few weeks and a couple of rebuilds ago. Checkinstall is an amazing tool. > DaveT > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On 19/08/17 16:46, Dave Turner wrote: On 18/08/17 18:45, Steve Litt wrote: On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:36:12 +0100 Dave Turnerwrote: On 18/08/17 00:22, Joel Roth wrote: deleted /lib/udev and all the sub-directories With eudev I have a working keyboard so today I went in and removed /etc/systemd/* . Re-booted and I still have a working keyboard but no network connection! Hi Dave, I think you have /etc/init.d/networking or something like that. This shellscript assumes a certain name for your network interface. Your move to eudev might have changed that name. Perform the following command to learn interface names: ip link Strongarm your network name(s) into /etc/init.d/networking as needed. If you really, really can't get /etc/init.d/networking to do the job, here's a shellscript to bring up a wired interface to a defined IP: #!/bin/bash ip link set dev enp3s0 down ip addr add 192.168.100.2/24 dev enp3s0 ip addr add 192.168.100.102/24 dev enp3s0 ip link set dev enp3s0 up ip route add default via 192.168.100.96 Assuming your interface is named enp3s0 (and rename it if not), the preceding script will work on any distro. Somewhere in the past I posted, on this list, a shellscript to deduce the name of the wired interface, and jam it into an environment variable so it could be passed to scripts like the preceding. If you want to boot up wifi, you need your boot to early run, *with respawn*, wpa_supplicant, as aa daemon. This means for sysvinit put it in /etc/inittab, not in /etc/init.d/S0whateverwpa_supplicant. If, like me, you're willing to be disloyal to your distro, you can start up your network trivially. SteveT Steve Litt July 2017 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I'll have a go at your and Svante's suggestions probably on Sunday evening. Saturday and Sunday I will be putting my Harley back together and going for a ride. DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) I installed eudev and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. Deleted /etc/systemd/ and rebooted, everything still works. Deleted /lib/systemd/ and rebooted, everything still works. Deleted /var/lib/systemd/ and rebooted, everything still works. Deleted /usr/lib/systemd/ and rebooted, everything still works. udev is gone and is replaced by eudev. I left the udev files in place in /etc /lib because no eudev files had appeared so I think eudev makes use of the udev files. I felt disinclined to break the system again by deleting them! But if anyone can confirm or deny that would be nice. For sound I installed flac, alsa-utils, and the ncurses media player moc. alsa-utils includes alsa-mixer and that let me un-mute the sound. And it works! I think the docs on alsa and sound on linux have become divorced from reality over the years, I know how to read and follow instructions, I should have been able to do this years ago. I had to do it by trial and error! To confirm: the 'sound' section in aptitude shows only alsa-utils and moc; flac is in the 'libs' section as libflac8. I have had a good look at what xserver-xorg-core pulls in. libsystemd0 gets pulled in. Oh well, I'll just have to put up with it won't I! I can cope with twm and I really like ctwm so I was shocked when I realised that the version of ctwm in debian is 10 years old! Version 4.0.1 was released by the ctwm people in June this year. I had to download the code and compile it. I used 'checkinstall' to create the package and it works too! Obviously that was a few weeks and a couple of rebuilds ago. DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng