Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
On 05/03/15 22:30, Dragan FOSS wrote: On 03/ 5/15 08:16 PM, Anto wrote: The following packages will be REMOVED: php5-cli php5-fpm php5-imagick Meanwhile, last night, the situation changed .. obviously, at least for php5-fpm :) But I am not confident enough Whatever you want .. my message about trios repo was just a suggestion :) Hello Dragan, I really appreciate your efforts in stripping systemd from Debian. I am quite sure TRIOS is very useful for a lot of people. However, it still does not meet my objective after thorough checking last month, so I can not use it. Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
On 05/03/15 04:54, Dragan FOSS wrote: On 03/ 4/15 04:00 AM, Anto wrote: I feel like being forced to (indirectly) use libsystemd0 on my VPS just now. I just removed the systemd from php-fpm, so everyone can test it. http://mirror.org.rs/trios/pool/non-systemd-testing/p/php5/ - [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy php5-fpm php5-fpm: Installed: 5.6.5+dfsg-2trios1 Candidate: 5.6.5+dfsg-2trios1 Version table: *** 5.6.5+dfsg-2trios1 0 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status 5.6.5+dfsg-2 0 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy libsystemd0 libsystemd0: Installed: (none) Candidate: (none) Package pin: (not found) Version table: 215-12 -1 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# Cheers Hello Dragan, Thanks a lot for your efforts. Unfortunately, your php5-fpm depends on init-system-helpers. So I can not test that as I don't want to install init-system-helpers, which is the helper for systemd *only*. It should be only needed if I installed systemd. But I obviously really want to get rid of it. Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
On 03/ 5/15 06:38 PM, Anto wrote: Unfortunately, your php5-fpm depends on init-system-helpers. So I can not test that as I don't want to install init-system-helpers, which is Clean version of init-system-helpers, by Adam Borowski, is also in trios repo http://mirror.org.rs/trios/pool/non-systemd-testing/i/init-system-helpers/ If you wish, you can safely add whole systemd-free repo (component main you can exclude from list) --- echo deb http://mirror.org.rs/trios/ mia main non-systemd-testing /etc/apt/sources.list.d/trios-non-systemd.list wget -qO - http://mirror.org.rs/mirror.org.rs.gpg.key | apt-key add - Preferences/pinning: Package: * Pin: origin mirror.org.rs Pin-Priority: 1001 Package: * Pin: release a=jessie Pin-Priority: 800 Package: systemd Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:i386 Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd-sysv Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: libsystemd0 Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: libpam-systemd Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: libpam-systemd:i386 Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: libsystemd0:i386 Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: packagekit Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 Package: network-manager Pin: origin Pin-Priority: -1 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
On 04/03/15 04:49, Gravis wrote: from: http://php.net/manual/en/install.fpm.php FPM (FastCGI Process Manager) is an alternative PHP FastCGI implementation with some additional features (mostly) useful for heavy-loaded sites. this actually makes some sense because systemd does do process management. regardless, my guess was that it was enabled because everybody is using systemd, so why not? and i expect it will happen even more in the future. --Gravis Hello Gravis, I don't think php5-fpm needs systemd at all for process management. It has been able to manage it alone before systemd was even born. I think this is more related to the un-educated assumption (if not stupid) as you guessed. I also believe this will happen even more in Debian and all major distros, which makes me really sad as I can not seem to do anything about it as an ordinary user. I knew C programming language just enough for me to pass the exam in the university years ago, so I am not a programmer. I really wish that I was a programmer after I had disaster issues on my PC last year, so I could fork Debian myself. What happened was that I carelessly hit y after executing dist-upgrade that made systemd and its gang screwed up my PC. I have always been using the packages from Debian testing repository since 2002 and I had never had serious issues like that. I straight away switched to LMDE on that day as I didn't want to waste my time rolling back to Debian wheezy. When I heard about Devuan 2 months ago, I switched back to Debian wheezy then jessie with limited systemd component as I thought it would be a safer base to move to Devuan. Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
I don't think php5-fpm needs systemd at all for process management. of course it's not needed, it's an option after all. however, systemd can probably do it a bit faster and more reliably. i'm just saying it's not like this is completely out of place. it's important to maintain perspective because when you lose it, you become just another irrational fool. --Gravis On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Anto arya...@chello.at wrote: On 04/03/15 04:49, Gravis wrote: from: http://php.net/manual/en/install.fpm.php FPM (FastCGI Process Manager) is an alternative PHP FastCGI implementation with some additional features (mostly) useful for heavy-loaded sites. this actually makes some sense because systemd does do process management. regardless, my guess was that it was enabled because everybody is using systemd, so why not? and i expect it will happen even more in the future. --Gravis Hello Gravis, I don't think php5-fpm needs systemd at all for process management. It has been able to manage it alone before systemd was even born. I think this is more related to the un-educated assumption (if not stupid) as you guessed. I also believe this will happen even more in Debian and all major distros, which makes me really sad as I can not seem to do anything about it as an ordinary user. I knew C programming language just enough for me to pass the exam in the university years ago, so I am not a programmer. I really wish that I was a programmer after I had disaster issues on my PC last year, so I could fork Debian myself. What happened was that I carelessly hit y after executing dist-upgrade that made systemd and its gang screwed up my PC. I have always been using the packages from Debian testing repository since 2002 and I had never had serious issues like that. I straight away switched to LMDE on that day as I didn't want to waste my time rolling back to Debian wheezy. When I heard about Devuan 2 months ago, I switched back to Debian wheezy then jessie with limited systemd component as I thought it would be a safer base to move to Devuan. Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
Tom Collins wrote on 03/04/15 15:22: snip These people really are bastards. I wish there was some way to fight them. This disrespect should not be allowed to go unanswered. No. That is not in the spirit of open source either. If you expect to have the right to build open source however you want it, then it goes both ways. Others are free to do as they wish with it as well. Even when what they do with it goes against every aspect of the open source community. If you really want to fight them, adopt a package and start taking out everything they put in. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
They are our enemies and wish to make things as difficult as they can for us. They kicked us out and are working to make sure we cannot use that which is now their thing. even if what you claim is true, so what? give the trolls enough rope and they will hang themselves, we only need to leave them to their devices. in the mean time, building our safe haven, devuan is a much better use of our time than fighting in their forums. --Gravis On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Tom Collins tomcollins...@mail.com wrote: I was reading the debian-user mailing list some time ago and one of the systemd triumphalists stated that they will be compiling in the requirement to use systemd in every package that supports it. They stated that they won and anyone who doesn't like it can leave. So you aren't imagining things, that is what they stated they would do. They are our enemies and wish to make things as difficult as they can for us. They kicked us out and are working to make sure we cannot use that which is now their thing. These people really are bastards. I wish there was some way to fight them. This disrespect should not be allowed to go unanswered. They spit on us every chance they get. There should be repercussions. I think it was somewhere in this thread: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00641.html how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 at 9:31 AM From: Didier Kryn k...@in2p3.fr To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :) Le 04/03/2015 04:00, Anto a écrit : Hello Everybody, I feel like being forced to (indirectly) use libsystemd0 on my VPS just now. I pinned my php5 packages to version 5.4.36-0+deb7u1 on wheezy, because php5-fpm version 5.6.5+dfsg-2 on jessie requires libsystemd0. When I did dist-upgrade just now, it wanted to upgrade dpkg, dpkg-dev and libdpkg-perl from version 1.17.23 to 1.17.24. But it also wanted remove php5-fpm. It turned out that the new version of dpkg breaks php5-fpm ( 5.6.4+dfsg-3). So I just included those 3 packages into my pinning list, to see which other packageswill force me again to use anything related to systemd. I know that this is the risk of including jessie repository in my source.list, as it is quite clear that they have made the decision to support systemd. I guess they will always link any packages into systemd as much as possible, even if there is a possibility to compile the package without dependency to anything related to systemd. Looking at http://php.net/ChangeLog-5.php, they have put the option --with-fpm-systemd starting from version 5.5.0. So I assume that I can re-compile the php5 source from jessie repository with the option --without-fpm-systemd. Did anybody try that before? Or do I have to use the upstream source to be able to use that option? Kind regards, Anto ___ I stay carefully with wheezy and no backports, until I have the opportunity to install Devuan. Don't see any strong need to upgrade anyway. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng[https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
On 03/ 4/15 04:00 AM, Anto wrote: I feel like being forced to (indirectly) use libsystemd0 on my VPS just now. I just removed the systemd from php-fpm, so everyone can test it. http://mirror.org.rs/trios/pool/non-systemd-testing/p/php5/ - [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy php5-fpm php5-fpm: Installed: 5.6.5+dfsg-2trios1 Candidate: 5.6.5+dfsg-2trios1 Version table: *** 5.6.5+dfsg-2trios1 0 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status 5.6.5+dfsg-2 0 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# apt-cache policy libsystemd0 libsystemd0: Installed: (none) Candidate: (none) Package pin: (not found) Version table: 215-12 -1 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages [root@trios][/home/dragan/Desktop]# Cheers ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
Le 04/03/2015 04:00, Anto a écrit : Hello Everybody, I feel like being forced to (indirectly) use libsystemd0 on my VPS just now. I pinned my php5 packages to version 5.4.36-0+deb7u1 on wheezy, because php5-fpm version 5.6.5+dfsg-2 on jessie requires libsystemd0. When I did dist-upgrade just now, it wanted to upgrade dpkg, dpkg-dev and libdpkg-perl from version 1.17.23 to 1.17.24. But it also wanted remove php5-fpm. It turned out that the new version of dpkg breaks php5-fpm ( 5.6.4+dfsg-3). So I just included those 3 packages into my pinning list, to see which other packageswill force me again to use anything related to systemd. I know that this is the risk of including jessie repository in my source.list, as it is quite clear that they have made the decision to support systemd. I guess they will always link any packages into systemd as much as possible, even if there is a possibility to compile the package without dependency to anything related to systemd. Looking at http://php.net/ChangeLog-5.php, they have put the option --with-fpm-systemd starting from version 5.5.0. So I assume that I can re-compile the php5 source from jessie repository with the option --without-fpm-systemd. Did anybody try that before? Or do I have to use the upstream source to be able to use that option? Kind regards, Anto ___ I stay carefully with wheezy and no backports, until I have the opportunity to install Devuan. Don't see any strong need to upgrade anyway. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
from: http://php.net/manual/en/install.fpm.php FPM (FastCGI Process Manager) is an alternative PHP FastCGI implementation with some additional features (mostly) useful for heavy-loaded sites. this actually makes some sense because systemd does do process management. regardless, my guess was that it was enabled because everybody is using systemd, so why not? and i expect it will happen even more in the future. --Gravis On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Anto arya...@chello.at wrote: Hello Everybody, I feel like being forced to (indirectly) use libsystemd0 on my VPS just now. I pinned my php5 packages to version 5.4.36-0+deb7u1 on wheezy, because php5-fpm version 5.6.5+dfsg-2 on jessie requires libsystemd0. When I did dist-upgrade just now, it wanted to upgrade dpkg, dpkg-dev and libdpkg-perl from version 1.17.23 to 1.17.24. But it also wanted remove php5-fpm. It turned out that the new version of dpkg breaks php5-fpm ( 5.6.4+dfsg-3). So I just included those 3 packages into my pinning list, to see which other packageswill force me again to use anything related to systemd. I know that this is the risk of including jessie repository in my source.list, as it is quite clear that they have made the decision to support systemd. I guess they will always link any packages into systemd as much as possible, even if there is a possibility to compile the package without dependency to anything related to systemd. Looking at http://php.net/ChangeLog-5.php, they have put the option --with-fpm-systemd starting from version 5.5.0. So I assume that I can re-compile the php5 source from jessie repository with the option --without-fpm-systemd. Did anybody try that before? Or do I have to use the upstream source to be able to use that option? Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] My pinning list is getting longer :)
Hello Everybody, I feel like being forced to (indirectly) use libsystemd0 on my VPS just now. I pinned my php5 packages to version 5.4.36-0+deb7u1 on wheezy, because php5-fpm version 5.6.5+dfsg-2 on jessie requires libsystemd0. When I did dist-upgrade just now, it wanted to upgrade dpkg, dpkg-dev and libdpkg-perl from version 1.17.23 to 1.17.24. But it also wanted remove php5-fpm. It turned out that the new version of dpkg breaks php5-fpm ( 5.6.4+dfsg-3). So I just included those 3 packages into my pinning list, to see which other packageswill force me again to use anything related to systemd. I know that this is the risk of including jessie repository in my source.list, as it is quite clear that they have made the decision to support systemd. I guess they will always link any packages into systemd as much as possible, even if there is a possibility to compile the package without dependency to anything related to systemd. Looking at http://php.net/ChangeLog-5.php, they have put the option --with-fpm-systemd starting from version 5.5.0. So I assume that I can re-compile the php5 source from jessie repository with the option --without-fpm-systemd. Did anybody try that before? Or do I have to use the upstream source to be able to use that option? Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
