Re: [DNG] No future?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 17:21:43 +0100
Florian Zieboll via Dng  wrote:

> It's still about leaves hanging on the same ol' tree.


s/hanging/growing/ :-)

Cheerio,
Florian
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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 11:15:50 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> Florian Zieboll via Dng said on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:18:04 +0100
>
> >On March 19, 2021 12:18:17 PM GMT+01:00, Florian Zieboll via Dng
> > wrote:
> >
> >> a sphere
> >
> >Or, lol, should I say: a curved plane?
>
> Don't you mean alternative facts?


I was trying point out that the jump to a higher dimension does not
replace the logic of the underlying one, but expands it. It's still
about leaves hanging on the same ol' tree.


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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Steve Litt]

Florian Zieboll via Dng said on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:18:04 +0100

>On March 19, 2021 12:18:17 PM GMT+01:00, Florian Zieboll via Dng
> wrote:
>
>> a sphere  
>
>Or, lol, should I say: a curved plane? 

Don't you mean alternative facts?

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:43:26 +0100
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:

> Anno domini 2021 Fri, 19 Mar 13:18:04 +0100
>  Florian Zieboll via Dng scripsit:
> > On March 19, 2021 12:18:17 PM GMT+01:00, Florian Zieboll via Dng
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > a sphere
> >
> > Or, lol, should I say: a curved plane?
> >
> > With best regards from Flatland,
>
> And I thought Germany is "Neuland" :)


Just a reference to Edwin Abbott's brilliant "romance of many
dimensions" (1884):
https://archive.org/details/flatland00abbo_475/page/n43/mode/2up

And no, Germany is not Neuland: It's rather one of its wannabe colonial
powers... They are still not twigging that the famous "proverb of the
Cree" was not a piece of "indian" wisdom but a rancorous curse!

A cursed plane^^



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We were eating the same food
at the same time.

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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:00:09 +0100
aitor  wrote:

> Do you guys still trust Cristóbal Colón?

Personally, I prefer Galilei to Columbus: "And yet it moves!"

BTW, it was a nice tour de Heidelberg with ~500 colorful bicyclist@s
and many friendly people at their windows :-) 

Now, safe and sound, back to lineland,
01100110 01101100 0110 01110010 01101001 0111 01101110
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Re: [DNG] No future?

[aitor]

On 19/3/21 12:18, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote:

A friendly reminder: It's friday - for freedom, fun & future!

I suggest to consider this information so far off topic, that it hits the nail 
on the head from behind. Still, our planet is a sphere!

libre Grüße:-)


Do you guys still trust Cristóbal Colón?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/844078868/iman-para-nevera-tira-mafalda-tierra 



Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Freitag, 19. März 2021 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
> > With best regards from Flatland,
>
> And I thought Germany is "Neuland" :)

Neudeutsch-Land.
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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 19 Mar 13:18:04 +0100
 Florian Zieboll via Dng scripsit:
> On March 19, 2021 12:18:17 PM GMT+01:00, Florian Zieboll via Dng 
>  wrote:
> 
> > a sphere
> 
> Or, lol, should I say: a curved plane? 
> 
> With best regards from Flatland,

And I thought Germany is "Neuland" :)

Nik


> Florian
> 
> 



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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On March 19, 2021 12:18:17 PM GMT+01:00, Florian Zieboll via Dng 
 wrote:

> a sphere

Or, lol, should I say: a curved plane? 

With best regards from Flatland,
Florian


-- 

[message sent otg]

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Re: [DNG] Fwd: Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?

[Adam Borowski]

On Sat, Aug 03, 2019 at 06:46:20PM +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote:
> Devuan will be a great basis for your development. The work to do is
> not complex. I myself was able to remove all Non-Free Software on my
> own and install Linux Libre bundled with Jason Self.
> Good news, everything works as expected.

Please, for the sake of the Elder Gods, do update the CPU microcode at the
very least.  And most motherboard vendors stop providing BIOS updates after
1-2 years (if they do so at all!), thus it's much easier to do via a
package.

Then, you are free to not install anything from the non-free repository.
What would be the problem with it being available is beyond me.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian is one big family.  Including that weird uncle
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ and ultra-religious in-laws.
⠈⠳⣄
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Future codename proposal (was: Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 stable)

[Irrwahn]

Irrwahn wrote on 10.06.2018 19:52:

> I wonder if someone could sweet-talk the CSBN of the IAU into 
> creating the precondition for us to dub Devuan 21.0.0 UTF-8.

Corr.:  Of course that would be Devuan 22.0.0 UTF-8.  :-°




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Re: [DNG] Bad future is coming

[Ста Деюс]

Доброго времени суток, Евгений.


В Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:35:07 +, вы писали:
 This is something like philosophical post about our future in
 poettering universe.
 
 Working as system administrator, I am thinking about it, because of
 more and more Linux distributives switching to should-not-be-named
 daemon.
 
 And, of course, servers will be updated in few years, and it becames
 impossible to avoid using poettering things in everyday work. I can
 avoid it on my own workstations and servers, but I will be forced to
 use binary logging in journald, logind and so on if my company
 updates its servers to new Linux distros.
 Developers should support new startup schemes and new logging
 features.
 
 My colleagues and friends working with Linux don't think about this as
 about something bad and strange, a lot of people are able (or are
 forced) to switch, they talk about it as about something everyday.

I guess we have several options here:

1. Using LTS Debian that is free from the spyware.
2. I hope the time would be sufficient for «Devuan» getting started. --
Which, if not
3. Looking for other solutions for your needs and support those
solutions.
4. Forking necessary solutions, making societies around those spyfree
solutions.

Personally, i do not believe that whole the globe will participate in
the spyware of the Enemy country of the globe. -- Of course the Enemy
country will continue fighting w/ the developers of those solutions,
but nothing keeps it from being maintained here and there, making it
difficult or impossible to control free software.

It is life-level question, not the software question. -- To fight
fashism or become its slaves -- Rus', Russian empire, USSR - could not
bare the globe protection all the time having little or no support at
all from the globe -- time has come for the globe to fight at the end
for itself, itself, or Die.


С уважением,
Ста.
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Re: [DNG] Bad future is coming

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:35:07 +
Eugene Bolshakoff mercur...@elming.org wrote:

 Hello All,
 
 This is something like philosophical post about our future in
 poettering universe.
 
 Working as system administrator, I am thinking about it, because of
 more and more Linux distributives switching to should-not-be-named
 daemon.
 
 And, of course, servers will be updated in few years, and it becames
 impossible to avoid using poettering things in everyday work. I can
 avoid it on my own workstations and servers, but I will be forced to
 use binary logging in journald, logind and so on if my company
 updates its servers to new Linux distros.

Hi Eugene

If you're forced to use systemd, it will be because your employer
forces you to use it, not because it would be technically impossible.
First, your employer could switch to gentoo, funtoo, or devuan, and you
can quit worrying.

But let's say they use Debian or Centos. You can install your own init.
Check out this document:

http://troubleshooters.com/linux/diy/suckless_init_on_plop.htm

I installed a 16 line C program as PID1, used daemontools-encore (with
the LittKit shellscripts) to manage system initialization and
processes, and ran Linux from it. When you install an init system that
simple, it changes you. You're no longer intimidated by the whole
concept of init. You know what it is, and how to troubleshoot it.

When you use any init that does process supervision via any
daemontools-inspired program, and that means daemontools,
daemontools-encore, runit, s6, nosh and perp, you get no binary logs,
and your logs are easily and sensibly controlled.

The thing that makes it easy for you, personally, Eugene, is you're
doing a server. You don't need to get networkmanagter running, or
Gnome, or Pulseaudio, or any of the usual subjects that just can't live
without some form of systemd.

I look in my crystal ball and predict that if you are forced to use
systemd, it will be via the policies of your employers, not some
technical hurdle that can't be overcome.

 Developers should support new startup schemes and new logging
 features.
 
 My colleagues and friends working with Linux don't think about this as
 about something bad and strange, a lot of people are able (or are
 forced) to switch, they talk about it as about something everyday.

I'd also think of it as everyday, if not for:

1) I repaired consumer audio once upon a time.
2) I programmed computers (for a living) once upon a time.
3) I've been involved in politics.

As a stereo repair guy, I found just how easily repairable something is
if it does one thing and does it well. No-amp turntables, tuners,
amplifiers. And I found out how repairability degrades with monolithic
entanglement: Those all in one units with turntable, radio, amp,
cassette deck and speakers in the same box, sometimes even on the same
circuit board. I learned the repairability advantages of standard,
simple interfaces. Connections were made with RCA cables: No brains
required. Swapping and measuring were trivial. In monolithically
entangled units, those same interfaces could be traces on a circuit
board: How do you troubleshoot that?

After stereo repair, I became a developer, and discovered that my stuff
was more robust and more repairable if I constructed it as a bunch of
do one thing and do it well sections, ***tied together with
standard, simple interfaces***, not uber-complicated APIs or library
objects (unless the API or library object is really needed). Piping,
intermediate files, fifos, these are thin, standard interfaces easily
measured and swapped, allowing each separately compiled (and therefore
memory encapsulated) process to do one thing and do it well.
Troubleshooting is just a matter of measuring and swapping.

It would be offtopic to discuss my politics on this list, but suffice
it to say I've been in political movements and demonstrations in the
70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's. And this has given me a certain point
of view. When someone does something harmful, non-political people's
first reaction is Hanlon's Razor. In the same circumstance, political
people's first reaction is follow the money.

If it hadn't been for my audio repair and programming careers, and my
awareness of politics, I would be just like your friends and collegues,
thinking that systemd is no big deal, or perhaps welcoming its lengthy
list of features.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
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