Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Hi, Antony Stone writes: > On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:39:25, Steve Litt wrote: > >> goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 >> >> >THIS is the official Devuan logo: >> > >> >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics >> >/devuan-logo-1000x200.png >> >> Nice! >> >> SteveT > > You make it sound as though you have never installed Devuan... > > That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a machine. It's also used as the default GRUB GUI theme (if you've installed desktop-base, IIRC). Hope this helps, -- Olaf MeeuwissenFSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 10:59, Antony Stone wrote: Hi. [cut] I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. This post set off quite a discussion. o1bigtenor suggsted: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Devs discussed the change and agreed that a slightly modified version "init freedom - - - take your first step . . . " was appropriate and it is now on the Devuan site. Thanks to all for the input . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:38:43 -0600 goli...@devuan.org wrote: > The bike-shedding is quite useless and frankly getting annoying > without an accompanying tangible option for us to look at and > evaluate. > > Is everyone really that bored and clueless? I think more like curious and listless. I like these occasional diversions as long as participants to the project itself remain only amused and not too distracted. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:08:08 +1100 Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > Sure others could come up with better symbols / logos and words than > me. Freedom as an idea is a contrast between non-free and free. A symbol if it is therefore shown in those three parts: 1. Non-free (limitation, imprisonment, etc) 2. Freeing (getting away from #1) 3. Free (moving away to the contrast) A bird/branch is a frequent one: 1. The branch (sitting) 2. Flight (mobility, choice) 3. The sky A particular bird has many meanings for various reasons though. This idea could be shown just as easily with a creature waddling out from the waters onto the land. I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I think the deep meaning is in that three-part idea. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:21:18AM +0100, Antonio Rendina via Dng wrote: > > But returning to the point, I would not reduce a distribution project to its > init. I think that a motto should focus on the consequences: > * more customizable > * more universal > * you can change every part without impacting the others The problem with systemd is not that it's an init system. The problem is that it's a replacement for everything else. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:10:36AM +1100, terryc wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:38 +0100 (CET) > Karl Hammar wrote: > > > Hendrik: > > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . > > > > > " > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > > > Interesting. The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the > > > image dynamic. At first I thought it a design error; then > > > I realised it works very well. > > > > What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym... > > > > Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype: > > https://www.if.se/ > > so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the > > authorities allows thoose names). > > That insurance company's logo is a serif font and the logo has other > elements so it wouldn't be confused. > > My 2c is they would only have any logo protection if it was a registered > trademark. but there is still the > point that 'if' is a common english expression. and the name of a science-fiction magazine (now defunct??) > > Also, DNS registration > in one domain does not preclude registration in any other domain, > unless whomever holds 'if.se' has already registered all the if.* > variations. > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Karl Hammar [19/01/2022 18.19]: What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym... Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype: https://www.if.se/ so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the authorities allows thoose names). If is owned by the Finnish company Sampo, with branches in all Nordic countries. I think we should find a logo that stands out better. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 12:00:55, Steve Litt wrote: > Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:53:07 +0100 > > >That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a > >machine. > > I don't pay a lot of attention to aesthetic components unless they're > pointed out to me. I've probably installed Devuan about 8 times, all on > qemu VMs. My screenshot was from precisely that. Antony. -- You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using the telephone before the toilet. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:53:07 +0100 >On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:39:25, Steve Litt wrote: > >> goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 >> >> >THIS is the official Devuan logo: >> > >> >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics >> >/devuan-logo-1000x200.png >> >> Nice! >> >> SteveT > >You make it sound as though you have never installed Devuan... > >That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a >machine. I don't pay a lot of attention to aesthetic components unless they're pointed out to me. I've probably installed Devuan about 8 times, all on qemu VMs. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:39:25, Steve Litt wrote: > goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 > > >THIS is the official Devuan logo: > > > >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics > >/devuan-logo-1000x200.png > > Nice! > > SteveT You make it sound as though you have never installed Devuan... That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a machine. Antony. -- One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 >THIS is the official Devuan logo: > >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/devuan-logo-1000x200.png Nice! SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
En 20 de enero de 2022 7:41:23 Andrew McGlashan via Dng escribió: On 20/1/22 5:07 pm, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: About the logo, /if/ Okay, then about the IMAGE ... /if/ Yes, more like a slogan :) Aitor Enviado con Aqua Mail para Android https://www.mobisystems.com/aqua-mail ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Hi, I think that the init system is not the whole point, maybe that is what triggered the fork, but I don't find a distro attractive just because didn't want to switch to systemd. I think that the point is the homogenization of Linux distros and the freedom to have hands-on on a system. As stated in the fork document: "We believe this situation is also the result of a longer process leading to the take-over of Debian by the GNOME project agenda. Considering how far this has propagated today and the importance of Debian as a universal OS and base system in the distribution panorama, what is at stake is the future of GNU/Linux in a scenario of complete homogeneization and lock-in of all base distributions." And I actually think that they succeeded, all the major distribution today are using systemd. But returning to the point, I would not reduce a distribution project to its init. I think that a motto should focus on the consequences: * more customizable * more universal * you can change every part without impacting the others Il 18/01/22 20:05, goli...@devuan.org ha scritto: On 2022-01-18 10:59, Antony Stone wrote: Hi. I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I went to the website to find out. I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there, and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the Devuan world to see? It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe not, after all". I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. Here is a history lesson that should not be forgotten: https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/ Eroding history is the first step down a slippery slope to the end of freedom. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 20/1/22 5:07 pm, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: >> >> About the logo, /if/ Okay, then about the IMAGE ... /if/ ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: About the logo, /if/ That is NOT the Devuan logo. It is a piece of decorative artwork with a message about init freedom which is the reason Devuan exists. It is also present on the Init Freedom page of the Devuan website at: https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom THIS is the official Devuan logo: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/devuan-logo-1000x200.png Those interested in the genesis of the logo can find it in these 2 "issues" from our old gitlab starting here: https://devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.7.html Then finishing here. It took about 2 months to get it right: https://devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.20.html Thanks to bgstack15 for rescuing that history. Ah, the memories . . . those were heady days!! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 20/1/22 7:56 am, Steve Litt wrote: > Syeed Ali said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:56:59 -0800 > >> On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600 >> goli...@devuan.org wrote: >> >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png >> >> I submit: >> >> "Freedom includes init choice." > > Very nice Yes, I like it too. About the logo, /if/ -- could mean too many things; - my first thought was fedora - others facebook - interface - then there's that insurance company now It's all over the place, the letters alone don't mean enough and too closely represent other things; the extra "hidden" text may not make a difference, even though the background is meant to be transparent. And for a "symbol" for freedom, I had a quick look and didn't find anything I liked that is out there and isn't political, religious or US patriotic; as if the US owns freedom. Or even otherwise not divisive. But I do think some kind of universal symbol would work, just don't know what it should be. The closest I get to is the combination of the peace (all roads lead to one, nuclear disarmanent) symbol with a dove flying free. I see Devuan as a MORE universal Debian, what Debian was "meant" to be and was for many years. Whether that needs to be specifically init freedom or not is another matter. To me, it is just better because it is more universal. Embedded and other low resource hardware or appliances are not going to use Debian with systemd, at the very least systemd would likely be stripped. But if the device has an abundance of resources (strong CPU, storage, etc.), then minimalization and reasonable optimization will fall by the wayside as it does with the bloatiness and underlying performance problems of Winblows being "fixed" by newer hardware ... but I digress. Sure others could come up with better symbols / logos and words than me. A. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Forgive my brevity, I am on a cell phone. Please keep in mind that a logo on the web page and the actions upon rollover should be friendly to those colorblind or visually impaired. If a change is made, it should preserve function for all. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:38 +0100 (CET) Karl Hammar wrote: > Hendrik: > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . > > > > " > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Interesting. The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the > > image dynamic. At first I thought it a design error; then > > I realised it works very well. > > What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym... > > Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype: > https://www.if.se/ > so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the > authorities allows thoose names). That insurance company's logo is a serif font and the logo has other elements so it wouldn't be confused. My 2c is they would only have any logo protection if it was a registered trademark. but there is still the point that 'if' is a common english expression. Also, DNS registration in one domain does not preclude registration in any other domain, unless whomever holds 'if.se' has already registered all the if.* variations. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:23 PM Steve Litt wrote: > > Antony Stone said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:03:23 +0100 > > >On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote: > > > >> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 > >> > > >> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > >> > >> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the > >> English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to > >> the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. > > > >So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two > >letters? > > > >That could be enough to make people think of them separately. > > I doubt it. You and I think about init freedom daily. The person > reading the logo? Not so much. Also, what does "init freedom" give > them? We know, but do they? > > Honestly, I know it's hip today to say nothing negative, Today its considered part of political correctness to say nothing negative. It was the norm for many many years - - - in fact - - - I remember the phrase "If you've nothing good to say say nothing!" - - - in fact I heard that a lot (I tend to nit pick at stupid idiocies that I find!). So in some ways emphasising the positive benefits is a return to society's roots. The blatant, all too often infantile, spewing that has become far too common is a product of having too many persons with huge skills and tiny people experience lashing out at what they see as a personal attack, even when it isn't (although sometimes it is). Computer society seems to be fraught with this - - - changing this kind of behavior - - - - well the current political correctness male bovine excrement is mostly incitement for more spewing and not for changing hearts and minds. In regards to the present topic - - - one only needs to look at the response(s) from the author of this systemd malaise when he was challenged (sometimes in a fashion that was itself unacceptable). > but I think > maybe the best motto is "Don't get stuck with systemd", with that > phrase being an obvious link, leading to a short list of reasons why > you don't want to get stuck with systemd: > > * Systemd is DIY hostile > * For problems not on the systemd diagnostic "script", systemd makes > troubleshooting much more difficult > * Systemd has a gargantuan attack surface > * Systemd affirmatively and intentionally stumbling-blocks other init > installations. > * Systemd replaces working solutions with new, questionable solutions > This is a great 'second' step - - - pulling in the uninformed is the first step. If you think legislating morality works I would suggest you review the prohibition - - - the legislation really helped little (except for some who became filthy rich at it) and changed nothing - - - at least not that I can tell! I hope I haven't been a serious pot stirrer in this but this discussion seems to be polarizing - - - and if it escalates any more it will only divide an already small group. Wondering if its time to close the topic. I will try very very hard not to respond further! HTH ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Antony Stone said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:03:23 +0100 >On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote: > >> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 >> > >> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png >> >> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the >> English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to >> the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. > >So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two >letters? > >That could be enough to make people think of them separately. I doubt it. You and I think about init freedom daily. The person reading the logo? Not so much. Also, what does "init freedom" give them? We know, but do they? Honestly, I know it's hip today to say nothing negative, but I think maybe the best motto is "Don't get stuck with systemd", with that phrase being an obvious link, leading to a short list of reasons why you don't want to get stuck with systemd: * Systemd is DIY hostile * For problems not on the systemd diagnostic "script", systemd makes troubleshooting much more difficult * Systemd has a gargantuan attack surface * Systemd affirmatively and intentionally stumbling-blocks other init installations. * Systemd replaces working solutions with new, questionable solutions SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-19 14:59, Steve Litt wrote: goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 -0600 On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. SteveT That image has been part of Devuan's identity and working quite well for the last 7 years and 4 releases. It's hardly a new thing and was designed (not by me) for a specific purpose which seems to have been lost in time. The bike-shedding is quite useless and frankly getting annoying without an accompanying tangible option for us to look at and evaluate. Is everyone really that bored and clueless? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
k...@aspodata.se said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 10:55:11 +0100 (CET) >Curtis: >> > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: >> > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >> >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " >> >> >... >> “Your first step matters” > >I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and >has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by >some clique. "Devuan respects your workflow!" SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote: > goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 > > > >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the > English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the > point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two letters? That could be enough to make people think of them separately. Antony. -- She did not swoon, but she did get a look on her face that said 'This conversation is over', which Jack took as a sign he was going in the right direction. - Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Curtis Maurand via Dng said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:18:47 -0500 >Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: >> >> On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >>> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " >> >> Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png >> >> Will need to be discussed at our weekly … > >“Your first step matters” What does "Your first step matters" even mean? My first step in selecting a distro? The fact that this is about PID1? SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 -0600 >On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >> >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " >> > >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Syeed Ali said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:56:59 -0800 >On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600 >goli...@devuan.org wrote: > >> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png > >I submit: > >"Freedom includes init choice." Very nice SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:49:32, Blakov Niyt wrote: > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :) > > Both look WAY too much like Facebook. A change of background colour would be sufficient to fix that. Antony. -- Bill Gates has personally assured the Spanish Academy that he will never allow the upside-down question mark to disappear from Microsoft word-processing programs, which must be reassuring for millions of Spanish-speaking people, though just a piddling afterthought as far as he's concerned. - Lynne Truss, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Antony Stone wrote on 2022-01-19 06:09: On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote: On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png Will need to be discussed at our weekly … What I thought of was "Take your first step" A little more dynamic. Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :) Antony. Both look WAY too much like Facebook. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 20:04:13 +0100 (CET) k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Florian: > > On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:57 +0100 (CET) > > k...@aspodata.se wrote: > ... > > > To paraphrase usenix: > > > > > > ;init: > > > > > > but that would be too much of an internal joke. > ... > > I tried with a websearch for 'usenix AND syntax' - but this remains > > "too much of an internal joke" for me... May I ask you to elaborate > > on it? > > ;login: is/was the magazine of usenix and sage, see: > https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/ > > "login:" is was the getty prints at the terminal so you can login. > For the semicolon, see: > https://static.usenix.org/publications/login/whysemi.html > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar Oh, wow... still looking for the system that "echoes freedom"... but with (a cup of) 'tee' you can have it "printed locally" as well: share and enjoy -_- libre Grüße! Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Florian: > On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:57 +0100 (CET) > k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... > > To paraphrase usenix: > > > > ;init: > > > > but that would be too much of an internal joke. ... > I tried with a websearch for 'usenix AND syntax' - but this remains "too > much of an internal joke" for me... May I ask you to elaborate on it? ;login: is/was the magazine of usenix and sage, see: https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/ "login:" is was the getty prints at the terminal so you can login. For the semicolon, see: https://static.usenix.org/publications/login/whysemi.html Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday, 19 January at 10:22, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:37 AM Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote: > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png >>> >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png >> >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. > > "take" Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either. Watermark type of text is only useful if it is visible enough to be seen without needing special equipment imo. For anyone who missed it, the background is actually transparent. Overlay the logo on a different background to have the "hidden" text show much more clearly. - Antoine -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600 goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png I submit: "Freedom includes init choice." ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:57 +0100 (CET) k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Florian: > ... > > I like "init freedom" very much and think, that it's fully > > sufficient resp. that it doesn't need any further comment (nor > > advice). > > > > The only change I would suggest is to add a colon, that it reads: > > > > init: freedom > > > > or, to stress the "command" style, while keeping the syntax intact: > > > > > init freedom█ > > > > with a (blinking?) cursor at the end, seducing to hit [enter]... > > > > This, I think, would make it even more obvious, that Devuan stands > > not only for the freedom to choose among a number of init systems, > > but that the this very choice will have a much greater impact > > subsequently. > > To paraphrase usenix: > > ;init: > > but that would be too much of an internal joke. > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar I tried with a websearch for 'usenix AND syntax' - but this remains "too much of an internal joke" for me... May I ask you to elaborate on it? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Florian: ... > I like "init freedom" very much and think, that it's fully sufficient > resp. that it doesn't need any further comment (nor advice). > > The only change I would suggest is to add a colon, that it reads: > > init: freedom > > or, to stress the "command" style, while keeping the syntax intact: > > > init freedomâ > > with a (blinking?) cursor at the end, seducing to hit [enter]... > > This, I think, would make it even more obvious, that Devuan stands not > only for the freedom to choose among a number of init systems, but that > the this very choice will have a much greater impact subsequently. To paraphrase usenix: ;init: but that would be too much of an internal joke. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
o1bigtenor: > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM wrote: ... > > I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and > > has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by > > some clique. ... > but I really like the idea of nothing negative. > There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying around - - - > somehow I think it is possible to make a point without > having to destroy the opposing one. I agree with that. Perhaps something like "You're the captain, which init do you prefer today?" Like in captain of a ship and you have to navigate the system. Somehow corporate marketing has thoose positive things seems like ads. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Hendrik: > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > Interesting. The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the > image dynamic. At first I thought it a design error; then > I realised it works very well. What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym... Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype: https://www.if.se/ so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the authorities allows thoose names). Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:37 AM Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > > > On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote: > > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > >>> > >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png > >> > >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. > > > > "take" > > Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either. > Watermark type of text is only useful if it is visible enough to be seen without needing special equipment imo. Regards ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 01:36:43AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > > On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote: > > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > >>> > >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png > >> > >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. > > > > "take" > > Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either. Now I see it. Maybe we need more contrast? -- hendrik > > A. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote: > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png >>> >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png >> >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. > > "take" Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either. A. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 03:09:00PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > > > > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > > > > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly … > > > > What I thought of was > > "Take your first step" > > A little more dynamic. > > Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :) When I look at that image, I don't see "take" anywhere. -- hendrik > > Antony. > > -- > Software development can be quick, high quality, or low cost. > > The customer gets to pick any two out of three. > >Please reply to the list; > please *don't* CC me. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly … > > What I thought of was > "Take your first step" > A little more dynamic. Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :) Antony. -- Software development can be quick, high quality, or low cost. The customer gets to pick any two out of three. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:18:47PM -0500, Curtis Maurand via Dng wrote: > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly … > > “Your first step matters” What I thought of was "Take your first step" A little more dynamic. -- hendrik > > just my 2 pennies > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png > > I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. "take" Antony. -- "Can you keep a secret?" "Well, I shouldn't really tell you this, but... no." Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2022-01-18 20:49, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > > > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet. > > > > golinux > > Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3. -- hendrik > > golinux > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png Interesting. The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the image dynamic. At first I thought it a design error; then I realised it works very well. -- hendrik > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet. > > golinux > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 06:01:29 -0600 o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM wrote: > > > > Curtis: > > > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . > > > >> " > > ... > > > “Your first step matters” > > > > I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and > > has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by > > some clique. > > > > I agree that that is what I want - - - - but I really like the idea of > nothing negative. There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying > around - - - somehow I think it is possible to make a point without > having to destroy the opposing one. Maybe I'm assuming people > would 'get it' and they don't. Just find it frustrating to be treated > like I'm an idiot as some persons have seemed to want me to think that > I am (for not finding their way as being 'wonderful' just because its > theirs). > > HTH I like "init freedom" very much and think, that it's fully sufficient resp. that it doesn't need any further comment (nor advice). The only change I would suggest is to add a colon, that it reads: init: freedom or, to stress the "command" style, while keeping the syntax intact: > init freedom█ with a (blinking?) cursor at the end, seducing to hit [enter]... This, I think, would make it even more obvious, that Devuan stands not only for the freedom to choose among a number of init systems, but that the this very choice will have a much greater impact subsequently. libre Grüße, Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM wrote: > > Curtis: > > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > ... > > “Your first step matters” > > I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and > has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by > some clique. > I agree that that is what I want - - - - but I really like the idea of nothing negative. There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying around - - - somehow I think it is possible to make a point without having to destroy the opposing one. Maybe I'm assuming people would 'get it' and they don't. Just find it frustrating to be treated like I'm an idiot as some persons have seemed to want me to think that I am (for not finding their way as being 'wonderful' just because its theirs). HTH ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Curtis: > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " ... > âYour first step mattersâ I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by some clique. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 20:49, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet. golinux Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly … “Your first step matters” just my 2 pennies ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " I don't like promising - - - especially too much but I agree even a hint of uncertainty is not a great idea. Regards H . . . I actually like that idea! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59 AM Antony Stone wrote: > > Hi. > > I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I > went to the website to find out. > > I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there, > and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the > Devuan world to see? > > It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first > step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and > could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe > not, after all". > > I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, > to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the > unknown. > > > Thoughts / opinions? > Agreed. Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " I don't like promising - - -especially too much but I agree even a hint of uncertainty is not a great idea. Regards ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 10:59, Antony Stone wrote: Hi. I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I went to the website to find out. I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there, and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the Devuan world to see? It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe not, after all". I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. Here is a history lesson that should not be forgotten: https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/ Eroding history is the first step down a slippery slope to the end of freedom. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
