Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
Since I have time on my hands, I would like to give a try stripping the bare minimum of necessary functions from systemd. I know the task is complex. If I fail, it will not be the end of the universe. Which systemd source version are you using? I am assuming it should be version: 215-17 from Debian Jessie. I'm basing libudev-compat on libudev 219. Also, some of vdev's helper programs (i.e. the ones that begin with stat_) are derived from code in udev 219. It probably doesn't matter what version you go with unless you need a specific feature or want to avoid a specific bug. Why not just go with the latest? Stable releases of systemd are pretty frequent. -Jude ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
Practically every part of systemd has been modularized or supplemented out. Some of which aren't needed at all. systemd-init - uselessd cloned the entire init and service supervisor. Other init programs of a similar nature include sysvinit/sinit+perp/runit/s6/daemontools-encore, runit (standalone), monit, and several other advanced init systems. In part, systemd-init was unnecessary to begin with. systemd-udev - eudev already segregated the entire udev part. vdev aims to replace it entirely. mdev replaces it in part but lacks the automated rule handler relying on kernel hotplugging instead. systemd-logind - loginkit and consolekit2 work together to replace logind in part and in whole minus a few specific functions. systemd-journald - was unneeded and completely unnecessary. Work was already done by sysklogd, rsyslog, and syslog-ng. systemd-networkd - was unneeded and unnecessary. Netplug, NetworkManager, inetd, xinetd, dhcpcd, and dhcp(client) to name a few already did the same work. Netplug is possibly the lightest weight of them all and provides connectivity device management as well as net connectivity service. Yes there are others but really what do they do new that isn't done already? To be truthful, the only real contribution systemd has offered has been logind which was nothing more than an advanced ConsoleKit client for DBus. That contribution has been miniscule and really unwarranted because all it is doing is doing things the wrong way by creating a huge monolithic project outside the scope of it's own parameters that has very little quality control and no real purpose other than creating another Busybox and monolithic hypervisor. Not to say it as something negative, but if Lennart and the Cabal had any real talent, they would focus their talents to improving existing systems rather than reinventing a wheel just for the sake of reinventing it to forcibly deprecate software and create a huge schism within GNU/Linux that has done more harm than good not just to GNU/Linux, but UNIX on the whole. -Jim Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 11:27:10 +0100 From: l...@diamand.org To: jud...@gmail.com CC: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from? You might want to take a look at uselessd, which I think is an attempt to do something similar. http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ I think even if it turns out to be impossible, it will still be instructive! Good luck! On 7 May 2015 at 08:24, Jude Nelson jud...@gmail.com wrote: Since I have time on my hands, I would like to give a try stripping the bare minimum of necessary functions from systemd. I know the task is complex. If I fail, it will not be the end of the universe. Which systemd source version are you using? I am assuming it should be version: 215-17 from Debian Jessie. I'm basing libudev-compat on libudev 219. Also, some of vdev's helper programs (i.e. the ones that begin with stat_) are derived from code in udev 219. It probably doesn't matter what version you go with unless you need a specific feature or want to avoid a specific bug. Why not just go with the latest? Stable releases of systemd are pretty frequent. -Jude ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
It's a bad thing when no talent idiots refuse to learn even the simplest of standards and do things against the UNIX way, the sane way, the simple way, and nobody cares to question them except the few. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Jaret Cantumailto:ja...@realitysend.com Sent: 5/7/2015 7:46 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from? On 05/07/2015 09:59 PM, James Powell wrote: Etcnet was very involved with scripts which was always a problem for Red Hat. Many Red Hat scripts have been known for being substandard in quality and reliability, possibly a reason why they wanted systemd so bad. However, any daemon can work well if proper scripting is applied and mistakes are corrected properly. Scripts are just the easiest thing to blame since everyone can see them and far more users are capable of reading (and thus critiquing) them. Scripts are no more different than any other piece of code that makes up a system, but they are a lot easier to modify and understand (and thus critique -- wait, I already did that one) to suit to your individual purpose. That is why scripts have been strewn across *NIX since the dawn of time. (Or the Epoch. Close enough. That's the one that matters, anyway.) Scripts are a fundamental building block across many aspects of *NIX, so to focus on just init is a bit tunnel-visioned. If a script is bad, send a patch. And getting rid of scripts altogether won't fix any problems of quality or reliability; it will just put any badness in the binaries where you can't easily understand/modify(/critique!) any issues that an init system who-will-remain-nameless might (read: will and has) caused. I for one like scripts: start, stop, _etc_. Same scripts work for SysVinit or BusyBox or conceptually any arbitrary init system that will have them. I mean, the convention is part of the Linux Standard Base, fer cryin' out loud! http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/LSB_3.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/tocsysinit.html Using some strange new non-script init file format is typically what sours me on many of the alternative init systems. Pretty much every service already has an initscript for itself available, and if not, they are very easy to make. You'd think someone would focus on fixing/streamlining/refactoring the oft-called crufty init executable instead of struggling with an file format when one already exists and is widely available for use. Simple, yes, but when has KISS been a bad thing before? ~jaret ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
On 05/07/2015 09:59 PM, James Powell wrote: Etcnet was very involved with scripts which was always a problem for Red Hat. Many Red Hat scripts have been known for being substandard in quality and reliability, possibly a reason why they wanted systemd so bad. However, any daemon can work well if proper scripting is applied and mistakes are corrected properly. Scripts are just the easiest thing to blame since everyone can see them and far more users are capable of reading (and thus critiquing) them. Scripts are no more different than any other piece of code that makes up a system, but they are a lot easier to modify and understand (and thus critique -- wait, I already did that one) to suit to your individual purpose. That is why scripts have been strewn across *NIX since the dawn of time. (Or the Epoch. Close enough. That's the one that matters, anyway.) Scripts are a fundamental building block across many aspects of *NIX, so to focus on just init is a bit tunnel-visioned. If a script is bad, send a patch. And getting rid of scripts altogether won't fix any problems of quality or reliability; it will just put any badness in the binaries where you can't easily understand/modify(/critique!) any issues that an init system who-will-remain-nameless might (read: will and has) caused. I for one like scripts: start, stop, _etc_. Same scripts work for SysVinit or BusyBox or conceptually any arbitrary init system that will have them. I mean, the convention is part of the Linux Standard Base, fer cryin' out loud! http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/LSB_3.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/tocsysinit.html Using some strange new non-script init file format is typically what sours me on many of the alternative init systems. Pretty much every service already has an initscript for itself available, and if not, they are very easy to make. You'd think someone would focus on fixing/streamlining/refactoring the oft-called crufty init executable instead of struggling with an file format when one already exists and is widely available for use. Simple, yes, but when has KISS been a bad thing before? ~jaret ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
I actually like netplug myself. Although it duplicates ifup/ifdown and acts as a dhcp/static IP client and is fairly autonomous, it's a very sane project that does it's job, does it well, and isn't intrusive. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Isaac Dunhammailto:ibid...@gmail.com Sent: 5/7/2015 8:05 PM To: Alex 'AdUser' Zmailto:ad_u...@runbox.com Cc: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from? On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 11:40:28AM +1000, Alex 'AdUser' Z wrote: Netplug, NetworkManager, inetd, xinetd, dhcpcd, and dhcp(client) to name a few already did the same work. Netplug is possibly the lightest weight of them all and provides connectivity device management as well as net connectivity service. netplug and ifplugd provide essentially the same functionality; ifplugd (written by Lennart several years ago) is the more widely used one as far as I can tell, and there's a small version of it included in Busybox. I'd be unsurprised if Lennart started thinking in terms of all the projects he'd done and decided to roll everything that has some association with initscripts/sysvinit/the minimal boot profile into one package. FYI, there is (was?) another alternative: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=195365 Known problems: * highly relies on initscripts package * almost undocumented, official wiki page is compilation of comments from sources. * used in only one distro (AltLinux) http://git.altlinux.org/people/sbolshakov/packages/?p=etcnet.git;a=summary That's about all I could read of www.altlinux.org/etcnet (said page is Russian). Last changes were the start of this year. Reading the docs/ dir, I see that the READMEs are almost all how to do something you already know how to do, using this package. etcnet.8 seems to be *almost* enough to get started; etcnet-options.5 is almost enough to do something; but the real documentation is in examples/. Unfortunately, there's no example of how to do wireless via WPA. I also see that it's meant to work with the hotplug scripts, and that it amounts to a different way to configure ifup. Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
Etcnet was very involved with scripts which was always a problem for Red Hat. Many Red Hat scripts have been known for being substandard in quality and reliability, possibly a reason why they wanted systemd so bad. However, any daemon can work well if proper scripting is applied and mistakes are corrected properly. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Alex 'AdUser' Zmailto:ad_u...@runbox.com Sent: 5/7/2015 6:40 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from? Netplug, NetworkManager, inetd, xinetd, dhcpcd, and dhcp(client) to name a few already did the same work. Netplug is possibly the lightest weight of them all and provides connectivity device management as well as net connectivity service. FYI, there is (was?) another alternative: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=195365 Known problems: * highly relies on initscripts package * almost undocumented, official wiki page is compilation of comments from sources. * used in only one distro (AltLinux) -- -- Alex ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Which source version fo systemd are you stripping code from?
On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 11:40:28AM +1000, Alex 'AdUser' Z wrote: Netplug, NetworkManager, inetd, xinetd, dhcpcd, and dhcp(client) to name a few already did the same work. Netplug is possibly the lightest weight of them all and provides connectivity device management as well as net connectivity service. netplug and ifplugd provide essentially the same functionality; ifplugd (written by Lennart several years ago) is the more widely used one as far as I can tell, and there's a small version of it included in Busybox. I'd be unsurprised if Lennart started thinking in terms of all the projects he'd done and decided to roll everything that has some association with initscripts/sysvinit/the minimal boot profile into one package. FYI, there is (was?) another alternative: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=195365 Known problems: * highly relies on initscripts package * almost undocumented, official wiki page is compilation of comments from sources. * used in only one distro (AltLinux) http://git.altlinux.org/people/sbolshakov/packages/?p=etcnet.git;a=summary That's about all I could read of www.altlinux.org/etcnet (said page is Russian). Last changes were the start of this year. Reading the docs/ dir, I see that the READMEs are almost all how to do something you already know how to do, using this package. etcnet.8 seems to be *almost* enough to get started; etcnet-options.5 is almost enough to do something; but the real documentation is in examples/. Unfortunately, there's no example of how to do wireless via WPA. I also see that it's meant to work with the hotplug scripts, and that it amounts to a different way to configure ifup. Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
