Re: [DNG] What does Linus do?
El 26/08/17 a les 19:57, Didier Kryn ha escrit: > Le 26/08/2017 à 19:02, Alessandro Selli a écrit : > With my proposed solution, the admin has the choice to refer to nics > by their interface name, as given by the kernel, which is fine when > there is only one, or by their MAC address, if there are several. If you > use MAC you get the same result as with current Devuan's udev renaming > scheme -without the race - and if you use eth0 then you get the same > result as if you disabled renaming. And you can mix things if you like > in /etc/interfaces, eg use wlan0 for wifi and MAC for the Ethernets; it > isn't a decisipon of the distro; it is up to the admin. Just like for > partitions. Simplicity and choice, that's Unix, isn't it :-) > This is exactly what the 'mactoname' service allows. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Naming of network interfaces (was: Re: What does Linus do?)
Narcis Garcia - 27.08.17, 09:59: > El 26/08/17 a les 19:57, Didier Kryn ha escrit: > > Le 26/08/2017 à 19:02, Alessandro Selli a écrit : > > With my proposed solution, the admin has the choice to refer to nics > > > > by their interface name, as given by the kernel, which is fine when > > there is only one, or by their MAC address, if there are several. If you > > use MAC you get the same result as with current Devuan's udev renaming > > scheme -without the race - and if you use eth0 then you get the same > > result as if you disabled renaming. And you can mix things if you like > > in /etc/interfaces, eg use wlan0 for wifi and MAC for the Ethernets; it > > isn't a decisipon of the distro; it is up to the admin. Just like for > > partitions. Simplicity and choice, that's Unix, isn't it :-) > > This is exactly what the 'mactoname' service allows. A maintainer/developer of ifupdown implemented this also there. Its standard in Debian Sid now, that you can use MAC addresses in /e/n/i to address interfaces. There has been a huge and long thread on debian-devel about naming of network interfaces that triggered a maintainer of ifupdown to implement this new feature. See manpage interfaces(5) on Debian Sid under PATTERN MATCHING INTERFACES. For thread see: Debian 9 in a VM with Proxmox 5 system => Naming of network devices https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/07/threads.html#00115 And here is the the mail about the MAC address pattern matching that Guus Sliepen implemented: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/07/msg00265.html But as Adam who replied to this mail then is on this list, it may be that he mentioned all of this already… however how can I know in a thread that goes about everything and the universe. Thanks, -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Naming of network interfaces
El 27/08/17 a les 11:08, Martin Steigerwald ha escrit: > Narcis Garcia - 27.08.17, 09:59: >> El 26/08/17 a les 19:57, Didier Kryn ha escrit: >>> Le 26/08/2017 à 19:02, Alessandro Selli a écrit : >>> With my proposed solution, the admin has the choice to refer to nics >>> >>> by their interface name, as given by the kernel, which is fine when >>> there is only one, or by their MAC address, if there are several. If you >>> use MAC you get the same result as with current Devuan's udev renaming >>> scheme -without the race - and if you use eth0 then you get the same >>> result as if you disabled renaming. And you can mix things if you like >>> in /etc/interfaces, eg use wlan0 for wifi and MAC for the Ethernets; it >>> isn't a decisipon of the distro; it is up to the admin. Just like for >>> partitions. Simplicity and choice, that's Unix, isn't it :-) >> >> This is exactly what the 'mactoname' service allows. > > A maintainer/developer of ifupdown implemented this also there. Its standard > in Debian Sid now, that you can use MAC addresses in /e/n/i to address > interfaces. > > There has been a huge and long thread on debian-devel about naming of network > interfaces that triggered a maintainer of ifupdown to implement this new > feature. > > See manpage interfaces(5) on Debian Sid under PATTERN MATCHING INTERFACES. > > For thread see: > > Debian 9 in a VM with Proxmox 5 system => > Naming of network devices > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/07/threads.html#00115 > > And here is the the mail about the MAC address pattern matching that Guus > Sliepen implemented: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/07/msg00265.html > > But as Adam who replied to this mail then is on this list, it may be that he > mentioned all of this already… however how can I know in a thread that goes > about everything and the universe. > > Thanks, > Thanks for references; then mactoname is really useful for these cases: From Sarge to Stretch/Ascii (not next Debian versions) Hurd FreeBSD + Cases without ifupdown. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What does Linus do?
Adam Borowski wrote: > It would mean changes to every single program that deals with network > interfaces. With renaming, you apply this in a single place. This. If an interface name changes, I don't want to have to find and change every occurrence - network config, firewall/iptables rules, dhcp server, data collection scripts (eg grabbing interface stats), and ... With a quick look, I see that some of my Nagios plugins need the interface specifying. And don't forget that external systems may have visibility/use interface names - eg via SNMP. And as pointed out, this is a very different situation to filesystems/disk drives. With disks, you have a level of abstraction inherent in the filesystems layout. Few things work with disk/partition names - so provided mount and fstab between them can describe what mounts where, then nothing else in normal use needs to know anything about names - they just refer to files. Pretty well everything that refers to disk/partition names is something run manually by the admin. ISTM that there are in fact two distinctly different cases being talked about - and those use cases have different needs which I think may be part of the problem in trying to solve everything in one way. Or, there seems to be a lot of discussion about what size & shape the hammer should be, forgetting that "if the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail". I'd suggest (no I don't have any references) that the vast majority of systems, especially those not managed by a "professional admin", have just one ethernet NIC and/or one WiFi interface. For these systems there is no problem just using the default kernel option that names them eth0/wlan0. Furthermore, for these systems, all the "solutions" to the non-existent problem are actually creating a problem that didn't exist. Then I'd suggest that the majority of systems with multiple NICs are managed by someone "with a clue" - and for these the problem was solved years ago with techniques to rename interfaces (my preference being to use meaning names like ethlan, ethext, etc which don't clash with the defaults). So that doesn't leave many systems with a problem to solve ! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
Hendrik Boom wrote: >> That's PS/2, not RS232. > > True, true. And there seem to be two different sizes of those > round plugs in use. At least, I've seen adapters to connect between > the two sizes. I think you may be thinking of the original PC keyboard connector which was a standard DIN plug most commonly used in audio applications (and MIDI). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector The PS/2 keyboard & mouse connectors are 6 pin mini DIN (aka MCC, Mini Circular Connector) connectors, also made popular by Apple's use of the 8 pin version for the serial ports on the Mac. "Somewhat fiddly" to solder wires into, especially if the wires are a bit on the thick side ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector AFAIK the underlying protocol for the keyboard is the same (or near enough for simple conversion) between the two connector formats to allow for easy conversion between plugs. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 18:03:08 +0100 Simon Hobson wrote: [...] > AFAIK the underlying protocol for the keyboard is the same (or near enough > for simple conversion) between the two connector formats to allow for easy > conversion between plugs. They are, adaptors are purely mechanical. Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk): [PS/2 6-pin mini-DIN vs. old 5-pin DIN] > AFAIK the underlying protocol for the keyboard is the same (or near > enough for simple conversion) between the two connector formats to > allow for easy conversion between plugs. It absolutely is, and therefore the two share the trait that users can (rarely) fry motherboard circuity by assuming the connection supports hotplug operation, which strictly speaking it was not designed to do. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 16:14 +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 at 01:03:10 +0200 > Adam Borowski wrote: > > > Hi! > > I'd like to recommend another improvement: let's make the installer > > default > > to noatime for fstab it creates. > > > I agree. I don't. Adding noatime by default will break some software that relies on atime, in particular mutt and popcon. Keeping relatime is sufficient. https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2009/03/27/relatime-recap/ jf -- John Franklin frank...@tux.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
Alessandro: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 18:03:08 +0100 > Simon Hobson wrote: > [...] > > AFAIK the underlying protocol for the keyboard is the same (or near enough > > for simple conversion) between the two connector formats to allow for easy > > conversion between plugs. > > They are, adaptors are purely mechanical. PC/AT and PS/2 have the same protocol and electrical spec. except they have different connectors. The protocol is bidirectional. PC/XT has the same pinout and connector as PC/AT but not the same protocol and they won't work together. The protocol is keyboard -> pc only. See page 16 of http://kbdbabel.sourceforge.net/doc/kbdbabel-vortrag-vcfe80-20070429.pdf and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard for details. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
Quoting k...@aspodata.se (k...@aspodata.se): > PC/AT and PS/2 have the same protocol and electrical spec. except they > have different connectors. The protocol is bidirectional. > > PC/XT has the same pinout and connector as PC/AT but not the > same protocol and they won't work together. > The protocol is keyboard -> pc only. Around 2000, someone brought a naggingly familiar machine to one of my local LUGs for help doing Linux installation. I poked around it a couple of minutes and finally recognised it with a laugh as an XT clone. I congratulated the owner on the fact that it was still functional even though it was 15 years out of date -- and explained that, no, we'd not be installing a Linux distribution (though the owner could look into ELKS, http://elks.sourceforge.net/, if the better alternative of finding a more-modern giveaway machine somehow did not appeal). Other than that, the only place I've seen a PC/XT keyboard since the 1990s is the Computer History Museum, so thankfully those are long gone. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
On 27-08-17 21:04, k...@aspodata.se wrote: PC/AT and PS/2 have the same protocol and electrical spec. except they have different connectors. The protocol is bidirectional. PC/XT has the same pinout and connector as PC/AT but not the same protocol and they won't work together. The protocol is keyboard -> pc only. See page 16 of http://kbdbabel.sourceforge.net/doc/kbdbabel-vortrag-vcfe80-20070429.pdf and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard for details. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 I can admit that: a friend of mine cannot part of his original IBM AT keyboard. So it has a converter from big DIN to PS2 to usb to connect it to his PC without PS2 ports. Grtz. Nick ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 22:25:45 +0200 info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > I can admit that: a friend of mine cannot part of his original IBM AT > keyboard. So it has a converter from big DIN to PS2 to usb to connect it > to his PC without PS2 ports. I have to plead guilty of still using, with both PC-XT to PS and Serial to USB adapters, an ancient AT keyboard with built-in trackball.. Cheers, Ron. -- Murphy was an optimist. -- O'Toole -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
info at smallinnovations dot nl [2017-08-27 22:25]: > I can admit that: a friend of mine cannot part of his original IBM AT > keyboard. So it has a converter from big DIN to PS2 to usb to connect it > to his PC without PS2 ports. I can understand that, they have a great "feel". However, they need more power than most USB ports (or maybe converters) can supply, so they won't work in many cases. Personally, I prefer the Norwegian Tandberg keyboards, with a PS/2 to USB converter. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
Nick: ... > I can admit that: a friend of mine cannot part of his original IBM AT > keyboard. So it has a converter from big DIN to PS2 to usb to connect it > to his PC without PS2 ports. Yes, there are still a few out there having thoose +10year old stuff. Hälsningar, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sverige 0173 140 57 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
The PC/XT used a clock/data protocol directly into an interrupt driven shift register which could handle 300 Kb+. The AT is microcoded and uses pseudo-RS-232 format but with the bit windows timing relaxed to allow for for microcoding. The keyboard is dominate but the buss direction can be reversed when the adapter pulls the clock line low and holds it. Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device Original message From: k...@aspodata.se Date: 8/27/17 2:04 PM (GMT-06:00) To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports. Alessandro: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 18:03:08 +0100 > Simon Hobson wrote: > [...] > > AFAIK the underlying protocol for the keyboard is the same (or near enough > > for simple conversion) between the two connector formats to allow for easy > > conversion between plugs. > > They are, adaptors are purely mechanical. PC/AT and PS/2 have the same protocol and electrical spec. except they have different connectors. The protocol is bidirectional. PC/XT has the same pinout and connector as PC/AT but not the same protocol and they won't work together. The protocol is keyboard -> pc only. See page 16 of http://kbdbabel.sourceforge.net/doc/kbdbabel-vortrag-vcfe80-20070429.pdf and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard for details. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
Doesn't this affect the expected lifetime for an SSD? Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device Original message From: John Franklin Date: 8/27/17 1:53 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Alessandro Selli , dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [DNG] noatime by default On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 16:14 +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 at 01:03:10 +0200 > Adam Borowski wrote: > > > Hi! > > I'd like to recommend another improvement: let's make the installer > > default > > to noatime for fstab it creates. > > > I agree. I don't. Adding noatime by default will break some software that relies on atime, in particular mutt and popcon. Keeping relatime is sufficient. https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2009/03/27/relatime-recap/ jf -- John Franklin frank...@tux.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What does Linus do?
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 12:05:56AM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > This idea does has some merit, but it cannot always prevent the necessity > to reconfigure a system's networking due to a hardware change and to a > sysadmin's specific needs; sometimes a cars with NIC 0b:45:81:f4:3e:01 is to > be en1, sometimes a never-before-seen card needs to be given the same name. > How is the system supposed to know? It cannot, the sysadmin will still need > to adjust thing by hand according to what it's needed in the specific > circumstances. I'd like a system that was as simple as possible to configure > and maintain that made this renaming as straightforward as possible, not as > complicated ad udev rules are. Do I understand you ccorrectly: that the udev rules are flexible enough to do the right thing, but they are too hard to use? -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
On Sun, 2017-08-27 at 17:18 -0500, d_pridge wrote: > Doesn't this affect the expected lifetime for an SSD? Not significantly. If this is a serious concern, we should consider disabling swap, hibernate, journaling, and syslog by default, too. jf -- John Franklin frank...@tux.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Repo mirrors
The devuan.org site says "Mirroring Devuan packages is being documented…" How far along is the documentation? If we're close to a beta, could someone contact me off-list? jf -- John Franklin frank...@tux.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.
Can confirm. Killed a Packard Bell sometime around 1990 hot plugging the keyboard. Luckily they warrantied it. On August 27, 2017 1:43:41 PM CDT, Rick Moen wrote: ::Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk): :: ::[PS/2 6-pin mini-DIN vs. old 5-pin DIN] :: ::> AFAIK the underlying protocol for the keyboard is the same (or near ::> enough for simple conversion) between the two connector formats to ::> allow for easy conversion between plugs. :: ::It absolutely is, and therefore the two share the trait that users can ::(rarely) fry motherboard circuity by assuming the connection supports ::hotplug operation, which strictly speaking it was not designed to do. :: ::___ ::Dng mailing list ::Dng@lists.dyne.org ::https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Sent from a Mobile device.___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:16:07 +1000 Erik Christiansen wrote: [snip] > > That's good news. If LXQt were merely LXDE with a different grahics > base, that'd be great. We'll see what the Razor-qt has brought with > it. I tried LXQt for awhile. It's good enough, IMHO. I'll keep using LXDE as long as I can, but I'm ready, willing and able to switch to LXQt when necessary, and LXQt becomes more ready for prime time daily. > > On 15.08.17 10:22, Fungi4All wrote: > > Welcome Erik, > > The first thing I did in Devuan was to install lightdm and LXDE and > > remove xfce. LOL, contrastingly, the first thing I did was to uninstall the Display Manager (I think it was called slim) so that I could boot to CLI, and from there, *if I wanted*, startx to GUI. Which illustrates the real beauty of Linux. Fungi4All wants to boot straight to GUI and use lightdm instead of slim to do it. No problem. I want no Display Manager at all, and once again, no problem. > > In most cases I use openbox > > though with some lxde tools. I hear ya Brother, that's pretty much what I do too. Plus, of course, I incorporate dmenu. [snip stuff referring to GUI access to shutdown] > Well, I hark back to the days when we only had "shutdown -h now", so > that's manageable. Yes! Over the years using Redhat, Corel, Caldera, Mandrake, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Debian, Void and Devuan, at least half the time shutting down from the GUI didn't work, especially because I wasn't using a display manager. No sweat off my petunias, I just typed "poweroff" or "reboot" (except in the real old days when we had "shutdown -h now" which sometimes doesn't power the machine off). And at times when I rolled my own init system, sometimes I couldn't get the proper signal to PID1 to shut down the system. No biggy, I just manually ran the shellscript associated with init stage 3 (shutdown). > > On 15.08.17 23:07, aitor wrote: > > You can test the following image announced in the IRC channel (it > > hasn't any desktop environment), but you'll be able to get network > > connection using the backend of simple-netaid. Just run: > > > > /usr/lib/simple-netaid/bin/backend --help > > > > Cheers, > > > > Aitor. > > Thanks aitor, but the little Udoo X86 is used for video streaming ... > though that could probably be wangled on the command line - after a > bit of trial and a lot of error. > > Thanks for all the help. I'll take this one step at the time. > > Erik > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- SteveT Steve Litt July 2017 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 06:51:24 +0100 Dave Turner wrote: > I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no > pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) Very nice! > > I installed eudev Did you install eudev simply by apt-get install udev? Were there any other steps? > and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. This means that udev won't run on boot. Did /etc/init.d/eudev exist, or did you just not have a daemon? [snip] > > For sound I installed flac, alsa-utils, and the ncurses media player > moc. alsa-utils includes alsa-mixer and that let me un-mute the > sound. And it works! I think the docs on alsa and sound on linux have > become divorced from reality over the years, I know how to read and > follow instructions, I should have been able to do this years ago. I > had to do it by trial and error! Dave, a cool move on your part would be to document exactly how you did the setup described in the preceding paragraph. Until Devuan gets their documentation act together, I'd suggest publishing your documentation on a website controlled by you, so that it's permanent. A whole heck of a lot of people want to have a simple, no-nonsense sound setup like you describe. I'm one of them. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ctwm
Hi all, Dave Turner mentioned ctwm in the "devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE" thread, and because I've failed at every attempt to use twm, I tried ctwm. The package manager installs it like a breeze, but in the tradition of Debian packages, it doesn't work out of the box. First problem: The Debian package forgets to install /usr/share/xsessions/ctwm.desktop, so pressing F1 on the slim login screen doesn't find it. You can't get to ctwmrc using normal methods. Oops. So create the following /usr/share/xsessions/ctwm.desktop : == ## /etc/dm/Sessions/ctwm.desktop ## [Desktop Entry] Name=ctwm Comment=ctwm Exec=/usr/bin/ctwm TryExec=/usr/bin/ctwm Terminal=True Type=Application == Don't ask me what all that gibberish means: I just copied it from lxde.desktop and changed the obvious. Now slim sees and delivers ctwm, so you have a fully functional ctwm, which is one of the most configurable WMDEs around (I have a temporary moritorium on the word GOSFUI). Things look up: You can F1 through slim to get to ctwm, but The menus from clicking the desktop don't work. You navigate to the "Debian" selection, release the left mouse button, and nothing happens. Not to worry, this is a ctwm-ism: When navigating to a an item, you must move the mouse pointer to the right in order to sub-navigate. That little tidbit should be in the README, but now you know. You have a great and functional WMDE. Now that you can navigate the menu system, you notice that dragging all the way right on the "Exit" choice gives you the choice of "No, restart ctwm" or "Yes, really quit". Choosing the former updates your running ctwm to the current ~/.ctwmrc, thereby removing the necessity to go all the way back to slim's mandatory F1 every time you try a new config element. From now on I'll use the phrase "restart twm" for the procedure consisting of "leftclick desktop, navigate to Exit, drag right to the little square, choose "No, restart ctwm". So now you can use the menus. But, oops, you have no way to change your ctwm configuration, because you have no ~/.ctwmrc file. You'll soon fix that: cp /etc/X11/ctwm/system.ctwmrc ~/.ctwmrc Restart ctwm, and cool, you have a perfectly running ctwm. If you only use a mouse... Trouble is, as it ships from the factory, ctwm is extremely keyboarder hostile. Try it and see: No matter what you do with your keyboard, you need to grab your mouse to fix the focus. Given that most lightweight WMDE users are keyboardists, this is a problem. Or not. Edit ~/.ctwmrc after copying it elsewhere, and add the following lines below the list of simple settings like "NoGrabServer" or "GrabServer", "DecorateTransients", the font assignments, etc, add the following lines: == UsePPosition "on" # Help kbd instantiated windows get focus RandomPlacement "on"# Help kbd instantiated windows get focus AutoFocusToTransients # Help kbd instantiated windows get focus SaveWorkspaceFocus # Obviously workspace focus should be retained WindowRing # Enable Alt+Tab type window circulation WarpRingOnScreen# Enable Alt+Tab type window circulation == Now go below all the Button assignments as well as any hotkey assignments, and add the following: == # HOTKEY DMENU Ctrl+Shift+; "semicolon" = s | c : all : f.exec "/home/myuid/bin/dmenu_litt.sh" # HOTKEY defops MENU, HIGHEST LEVEL CTWM MENU "comma" = s | c : all : f.menu "defops" # HOTKEY LIST OF ALL MENUS ON ALL WORKSPACES "period" = s | c : all : f.menu "TwmAllWindows" # NOTE! ALT+TAB CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK. # USE Ctrl+Shift+h and Ctrl+Shift+l instead. "h" = s | c : all : f.warpring "prev" # HOTKEY REV THIS WKSPC WINS "l" = s | c : all : f.warpring "next" # HOTKEY FWD THIS WKSPC WINS "u" = s | c : all : f.menu "TwmWindows" # HOTKEY THIS WKSPACE WIN LIST == In the preceding, dmenu_litt.sh is simply a shellscript that calls dmenu_run in a way that menus vertically instead of horizontally, and displays a readable size font in good contrast colors. See the dmenu man page for the proper arguments to dmenu_run, which simply passes command line arguments to dmenu. Restart ctwm and you have a dmenu-enabled, Shift+Ctrl+h and Shift+Ctrl+l cycling productivity machine. There are other things you can do to make it more keyboarder friendly. Find the name of the context for being in a menu, and in that context alone, hotkey vim keys j,k,h and l to go down one choice, up one choice, plunge into a submenu, and return from submenu, respectively. I didn't find a way to do it, but I bet I could. Bigger kudos if you can find a way to make Alt+Tab work the same as in Fvwm or LXDE, although my Shift+Ctrl+h (and l) render that a luxury
[DNG] No more GOSFUI
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 09:14:11PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > which is one of the most configurable WMDEs around (I have a temporary > moritorium on the word GOSFUI). Ah! How obvious! A Window Managing Development Environment! -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
Quoting John Franklin (frank...@tux.org): > Not significantly. If this is a serious concern, we should consider > disabling swap, hibernate, journaling, and syslog by default, too. My understanding is that Linux on SSD still strongly suggests a number of measures that are unlikely to be applied by default by any distro, which is why there are detailed guides for SSD use (in various distros) on the Web, that I recommend consulting. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
