RE: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section
I think that Aaron is on the right track here. Assuming that I've understood your goals correctly, my basic question would be: If you want to output the PI content, why not output the PI content? You don't need to duplicate it as content inside para elements. In fact, doing so is probably going to give you a headache, since you then have to maintain it in two places. From: markus.sticker.e...@zf.com [mailto:markus.sticker.e...@zf.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 08:30 To: aa...@damommio.com Cc: ste...@seefeld.name; docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: AW: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section Hi, the debugging mode is for end-users with less knowledge of docbook or fop. They build there template (or parts) with an wysiwyg-editor. Von: aarondamom...@gmail.commailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com [mailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Aaron DaMommio Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2013 17:22 An: Sticker Markus EXT FRD EPOS Cc: ste...@seefeld.namemailto:ste...@seefeld.name; docbook@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section Okay, so you want to make your processing instructions visible, and you are converting them to paragraphs to do that, but sometimes a para is not valid in the location where the processing instruction is? Are you doing XSLT customizations to help with this at all? I can imagine many template customizations that would help in this situation. Here are some ideas: - Customize titles so that if the topic contains a certain PI, it outputs the text of the PI as part of the title - It's not clear to me precisely how you are converting your PIs to paras, but if you post-processed the result with an XSLT, you could detect when the para is 1st child of a section, and then convert it to a subtitle in that case (since a subtitle is valid at section start) - Instead of trying to output a built-up document, why not write out your source? I assume that there is some reason why it is inconvenient to view the source files so that you want to display your PIs in the output. But maybe there is a convenient intermediate file that you could be looking at when you are debugging. In our system, for example, it is frequently helpful to look at files at the stage in our process where xinclusion has been done and a book has been converted to one big file, but before other transformations have happened. Maybe you could set up a situation where such a file becomes an output, and then inspect it as text to see where the PIs are. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:07 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.commailto:markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: Hi, OK. We use processing-instructions (build by several preprocessors out of our tool-chain) for getting different version of one document (pdf, rtf, html). These documents are generated on the server. If we need to debug the resulting document the processing instruction have to become visible. Because sometimes there are many expressions to hide parts / graphics / ... Sometimes the processing instruction are not in the very best node to add a para. Unfortunately. Currently I build a very dirty hack (using glossary) to get the instructions, but this is not my preferred way to work with documents. Best regards Markus Von: aarondamom...@gmail.commailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com [mailto:aarondamom...@gmail.commailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Aaron DaMommio Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2013 16:53 An: Stefan Seefeld Cc: Sticker Markus EXT FRD EPOS; docbook@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section Marcus, I'm reading what you've sent, and I still don't understand what you are trying to do. Can you try again to describe what you want, perhaps more generally, leaving out the processing instructions, and just describe the results you are trying to get? Then someone may be better able to suggest a solution that works with DocBook. --Aaron DaMommio On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Seefeld ste...@seefeld.namemailto:ste...@seefeld.name wrote: On 04/09/2013 10:25 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.commailto:markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: Hi, thank you, Stefan. This is a good advice but don't meet my problem/question. Also I if use profiling, the issue will remain. Your question reminds me a little of how people who aren't trained to think in terms of structured documents approach styling questions, for example by asking how can I make this text bold, instead of thinking about the semantics of the desired style. You were asking how to add highlighted text that's fully oblivious to the document structure, and my advise was to instead think about the semantics of the annotation you want. My understanding was that in fact the text you want isn't oblivious to the document structure, quite the opposite: it's an annotation of document structure, which you just happen to want to put
AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section
Hi, thank you, Stefan. This is a good advice but don't meet my problem/question. Also I if use profiling, the issue will remain. BR Markus -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Stefan Seefeld [mailto:stefan.seef...@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Stefan Seefeld Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2013 15:03 An: Sticker Markus EXT FRD EPOS Cc: docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section On 04/09/2013 08:45 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: So how to get the content of the pi written after this section? will be the question I have to think of. It might be better to think of your PIs as conceptually being part of the section, and then format them using a template customization. In any case, you are operating outside the DB vocabulary, so should be prepared for the required work to extend the schema and stylesheets. Stefan -- ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section
On 04/09/2013 10:25 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: Hi, thank you, Stefan. This is a good advice but don't meet my problem/question. Also I if use profiling, the issue will remain. Your question reminds me a little of how people who aren't trained to think in terms of structured documents approach styling questions, for example by asking how can I make this text bold, instead of thinking about the semantics of the desired style. You were asking how to add highlighted text that's fully oblivious to the document structure, and my advise was to instead think about the semantics of the annotation you want. My understanding was that in fact the text you want isn't oblivious to the document structure, quite the opposite: it's an annotation of document structure, which you just happen to want to put outside the formatted section instead of inside. I believe that thinking along those lines will make it easier to get to a solution that works with DocBook and not against it. Stefan -- ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
AW: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section
Hi, OK. We use processing-instructions (build by several preprocessors out of our tool-chain) for getting different version of one document (pdf, rtf, html). These documents are generated on the server. If we need to debug the resulting document the processing instruction have to become visible. Because sometimes there are many expressions to hide parts / graphics / ... Sometimes the processing instruction are not in the very best node to add a para. Unfortunately. Currently I build a very dirty hack (using glossary) to get the instructions, but this is not my preferred way to work with documents. Best regards Markus Von: aarondamom...@gmail.com [mailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Aaron DaMommio Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2013 16:53 An: Stefan Seefeld Cc: Sticker Markus EXT FRD EPOS; docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section Marcus, I'm reading what you've sent, and I still don't understand what you are trying to do. Can you try again to describe what you want, perhaps more generally, leaving out the processing instructions, and just describe the results you are trying to get? Then someone may be better able to suggest a solution that works with DocBook. --Aaron DaMommio On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Seefeld ste...@seefeld.namemailto:ste...@seefeld.name wrote: On 04/09/2013 10:25 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.commailto:markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: Hi, thank you, Stefan. This is a good advice but don't meet my problem/question. Also I if use profiling, the issue will remain. Your question reminds me a little of how people who aren't trained to think in terms of structured documents approach styling questions, for example by asking how can I make this text bold, instead of thinking about the semantics of the desired style. You were asking how to add highlighted text that's fully oblivious to the document structure, and my advise was to instead think about the semantics of the annotation you want. My understanding was that in fact the text you want isn't oblivious to the document structure, quite the opposite: it's an annotation of document structure, which you just happen to want to put outside the formatted section instead of inside. I believe that thinking along those lines will make it easier to get to a solution that works with DocBook and not against it. Stefan -- ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-h...@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook-h...@lists.oasis-open.org -- -- Aaron DaMommio: Husband, father, writer, juggler, and expert washer of dishes. - My blog: http://aarondamommio.blogspot.com - Need a juggler? http://amazingaaronjuggler.blogspot.com/ ===
AW: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section
Hi, the debugging mode is for end-users with less knowledge of docbook or fop. They build there template (or parts) with an wysiwyg-editor. Von: aarondamom...@gmail.com [mailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Aaron DaMommio Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2013 17:22 An: Sticker Markus EXT FRD EPOS Cc: ste...@seefeld.name; docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section Okay, so you want to make your processing instructions visible, and you are converting them to paragraphs to do that, but sometimes a para is not valid in the location where the processing instruction is? Are you doing XSLT customizations to help with this at all? I can imagine many template customizations that would help in this situation. Here are some ideas: - Customize titles so that if the topic contains a certain PI, it outputs the text of the PI as part of the title - It's not clear to me precisely how you are converting your PIs to paras, but if you post-processed the result with an XSLT, you could detect when the para is 1st child of a section, and then convert it to a subtitle in that case (since a subtitle is valid at section start) - Instead of trying to output a built-up document, why not write out your source? I assume that there is some reason why it is inconvenient to view the source files so that you want to display your PIs in the output. But maybe there is a convenient intermediate file that you could be looking at when you are debugging. In our system, for example, it is frequently helpful to look at files at the stage in our process where xinclusion has been done and a book has been converted to one big file, but before other transformations have happened. Maybe you could set up a situation where such a file becomes an output, and then inspect it as text to see where the PIs are. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:07 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.commailto:markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: Hi, OK. We use processing-instructions (build by several preprocessors out of our tool-chain) for getting different version of one document (pdf, rtf, html). These documents are generated on the server. If we need to debug the resulting document the processing instruction have to become visible. Because sometimes there are many expressions to hide parts / graphics / ... Sometimes the processing instruction are not in the very best node to add a para. Unfortunately. Currently I build a very dirty hack (using glossary) to get the instructions, but this is not my preferred way to work with documents. Best regards Markus Von: aarondamom...@gmail.commailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com [mailto:aarondamom...@gmail.commailto:aarondamom...@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Aaron DaMommio Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2013 16:53 An: Stefan Seefeld Cc: Sticker Markus EXT FRD EPOS; docbook@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook@lists.oasis-open.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [docbook] Some text after a section Marcus, I'm reading what you've sent, and I still don't understand what you are trying to do. Can you try again to describe what you want, perhaps more generally, leaving out the processing instructions, and just describe the results you are trying to get? Then someone may be better able to suggest a solution that works with DocBook. --Aaron DaMommio On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Seefeld ste...@seefeld.namemailto:ste...@seefeld.name wrote: On 04/09/2013 10:25 AM, markus.sticker.e...@zf.commailto:markus.sticker.e...@zf.com wrote: Hi, thank you, Stefan. This is a good advice but don't meet my problem/question. Also I if use profiling, the issue will remain. Your question reminds me a little of how people who aren't trained to think in terms of structured documents approach styling questions, for example by asking how can I make this text bold, instead of thinking about the semantics of the desired style. You were asking how to add highlighted text that's fully oblivious to the document structure, and my advise was to instead think about the semantics of the annotation you want. My understanding was that in fact the text you want isn't oblivious to the document structure, quite the opposite: it's an annotation of document structure, which you just happen to want to put outside the formatted section instead of inside. I believe that thinking along those lines will make it easier to get to a solution that works with DocBook and not against it. Stefan -- ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-h...@lists.oasis-open.orgmailto:docbook-h...@lists.oasis-open.org -- -- Aaron DaMommio: Husband, father, writer, juggler, and expert washer of dishes. - My blog: http://aarondamommio.blogspot.com - Need
