Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Hi Keith, This is very helpful. Thanks. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: Keith Fahlgren abdela...@gmail.com To: Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net Cc: davep da...@dpawson.co.uk; docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data Hi, I'm not trying to be evasive about these questions, I just want to be careful about pointing to the spec itself rather than asserting my own (possibly false) opinions. On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net wrote: I was also wondering about backwards compatibility of the epub 3 files. That is, would an epub3 file work with an epub2 reader? Yes, that is my personal understanding. The Working Group often discussed this goal, and the spec has been modified to facilitate EPUB 3 documents working _at a very basic level_ in an EPUB 2 Reading System. Are there other things that can be done to the epub3 files to make that experience more satisfying? Right, so I think we're currently in a transitional phase, where we want to emit the most EPUB 2-friendly EPUB 3 documents. That said, I'd encourage the stylesheets to parameterize any of these things for future versions (when EPUB 2 is super obsolete). The critical items we know EPUB 2 Reading Systems *really* need: * NCX * Basic metadata (title, identifier, language) EPUB 2 Reading Systems like: * Extended metadata * OPF guide, etc Keith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
davep wrote: On 09/26/2011 08:05 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#confreq-rs-backward-epub2 It should process EPUB version 2 Publications as defined in[OPF2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOPF2,[OPS2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOPS2and[OCF2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOCF2. Very clear! Thanks Keith. But what does should process really mean for a EPUB3 reading system: - does it have to visualize e.g. Dublin Core (EPUB2) metadata? - is it sufficient to only process a subset of EPUB2 metadata? Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
On 09/27/2011 07:38 AM, Michael Wiedmann wrote: davep wrote: On 09/26/2011 08:05 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#confreq-rs-backward-epub2 It should process EPUB version 2 Publications as defined in[OPF2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOPF2,[OPS2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOPS2and[OCF2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOCF2. Very clear! Thanks Keith. But what does should process really mean for a EPUB3 reading system: - does it have to visualize e.g. Dublin Core (EPUB2) metadata? - is it sufficient to only process a subset of EPUB2 metadata? Suggest 'process' as in rev 2 definition? http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#sec-metadata-elem I.e. it is required, though how it is used is player dependent? epub seems to be following Daisy, in *not* saying anything about what action a player must/should execute. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Hi Keith, This description is backwards compatibility of the epub 3 reader, that it should be able to handle epub 2 documents. That is useful, must mostly of interest to creators of epub3 reader software. I was also wondering about backwards compatibility of the epub 3 files. That is, would an epub3 file work with an epub2 reader? Certainly adding the dc:* elements as you suggested is a step in that direction, but of course any new epub3 features would not work on an epub2 reader that knows nothing of them. Since epub 3 readers are still in development (because the epub 3 spec is not finalized), people will be trying to reader their new epub3 docs on epub2 readers. Are there other things that can be done to the epub3 files to make that experience more satisfying? Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: Keith Fahlgren abdela...@gmail.com To: davep da...@dpawson.co.uk Cc: docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#confreq-rs-backward-epub2 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:15 AM, davep da...@dpawson.co.uk wrote: On 09/25/2011 09:47 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: Hi, You can include the (somewhat deprecated) DCMES versions as well: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#sec-opf-dcmes-optional This (duplication) will help older EPUB 2 reading systems (and should probably be controlled with a parameter). Regards, Keith What's the situation wrt backwards compatibility Keith? Is epub 3 'required' to be backwards compatible with 2.0? Any ideas? regards regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
On 09/27/2011 08:25 AM, Bob Stayton wrote: Hi Keith, This description is backwards compatibility of the epub 3 reader, that it should be able to handle epub 2 documents. That is useful, must mostly of interest to creators of epub3 reader software. I don't have that interpretation Bob? I think epub is a 'files on disk' spec, as with Docbook? The word reader only appears with the list of applications? What makes you think it is reader specific? regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Well, the title of that section is 2.2 Reading System Conformance and the intro para says An EPUB Reading System must meet all of the following criteria: So the spec is more than just the file format. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: davep da...@dpawson.co.uk To: Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net Cc: Keith Fahlgren abdela...@gmail.com; docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data On 09/27/2011 08:25 AM, Bob Stayton wrote: Hi Keith, This description is backwards compatibility of the epub 3 reader, that it should be able to handle epub 2 documents. That is useful, must mostly of interest to creators of epub3 reader software. I don't have that interpretation Bob? I think epub is a 'files on disk' spec, as with Docbook? The word reader only appears with the list of applications? What makes you think it is reader specific? regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
On 09/27/2011 09:39 AM, Bob Stayton wrote: Well, the title of that section is 2.2 Reading System Conformance and the intro para says An EPUB Reading System must meet all of the following criteria: So the spec is more than just the file format. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net grin/ Fair enough. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Hi, I'm not trying to be evasive about these questions, I just want to be careful about pointing to the spec itself rather than asserting my own (possibly false) opinions. On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net wrote: I was also wondering about backwards compatibility of the epub 3 files. That is, would an epub3 file work with an epub2 reader? Yes, that is my personal understanding. The Working Group often discussed this goal, and the spec has been modified to facilitate EPUB 3 documents working _at a very basic level_ in an EPUB 2 Reading System. Are there other things that can be done to the epub3 files to make that experience more satisfying? Right, so I think we're currently in a transitional phase, where we want to emit the most EPUB 2-friendly EPUB 3 documents. That said, I'd encourage the stylesheets to parameterize any of these things for future versions (when EPUB 2 is super obsolete). The critical items we know EPUB 2 Reading Systems *really* need: * NCX * Basic metadata (title, identifier, language) EPUB 2 Reading Systems like: * Extended metadata * OPF guide, etc Keith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
On 09/25/2011 09:47 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: Hi, You can include the (somewhat deprecated) DCMES versions as well: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#sec-opf-dcmes-optional This (duplication) will help older EPUB 2 reading systems (and should probably be controlled with a parameter). Regards, Keith What's the situation wrt backwards compatibility Keith? Is epub 3 'required' to be backwards compatible with 2.0? Any ideas? regards regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
On 09/26/2011 08:05 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#confreq-rs-backward-epub2 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:15 AM, davepda...@dpawson.co.uk wrote: What's the situation wrt backwards compatibility Keith? Is epub 3 'required' to be backwards compatible with 2.0? Backward Compatibility › http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#confreq-rs-backward-epub2 It should process EPUB version 2 Publications as defined in[OPF2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOPF2,[OPS2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOPS2and[OCF2] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#refOCF2. Very clear! Thanks Keith. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Hi Bob, working with the latest Beta2 of the EPUB3 extensions I'm missing some metadata in the resulting EPUB file (which are present if working with the original EPUB2 XSL stylesheets): bookinfo id=bookinfo titleSome Title/title subtitleSubtitle/subtitle author firstnameFirstname/firstnamesurnameSurname/surname /author revhistory revision revnumber0.0.1/revnumber date2011-09-25/date revremarkRemark/revremark /revision /revhistory !-- MISSING -- copyright year2001 dash; 2011/year holderJohn Doe/holder /copyright !-- MISSING -- publisherpublishernamePrivate person/publishername/publisher !-- MISSING -- subjectset subject subjecttermNon fiction/subjectterm /subject subject subjecttermTechnical article/subjectterm /subject /subjectset /bookinfo Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Hi Michael, I guess I need some clarification on what you mean by missing. When I process your bookinfo element with the epub3 stylesheets, the package.opf file does contain the following metadata: meta property=dcterms:rightsCopyright © 2001 - 2011 John Doe/meta meta property=dcterms:rightsHolderJohn Doe/meta meta property=dcterms:publisherPrivate person/meta meta property=dcterms:subjectNon fiction/meta meta property=dcterms:subjectTechnical article/meta So I'm not sure what's missing. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: Michael Wiedmann m...@miwie.in-berlin.de To: DocBook Apps ML docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Cc: Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data Hi Bob, working with the latest Beta2 of the EPUB3 extensions I'm missing some metadata in the resulting EPUB file (which are present if working with the original EPUB2 XSL stylesheets): bookinfo id=bookinfo titleSome Title/title subtitleSubtitle/subtitle author firstnameFirstname/firstnamesurnameSurname/surname /author revhistory revision revnumber0.0.1/revnumber date2011-09-25/date revremarkRemark/revremark /revision /revhistory !-- MISSING -- copyright year2001 dash; 2011/year holderJohn Doe/holder /copyright !-- MISSING -- publisherpublishernamePrivate person/publishername/publisher !-- MISSING -- subjectset subject subjecttermNon fiction/subjectterm /subject subject subjecttermTechnical article/subjectterm /subject /subjectset /bookinfo Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Hi, You can include the (somewhat deprecated) DCMES versions as well: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#sec-opf-dcmes-optional This (duplication) will help older EPUB 2 reading systems (and should probably be controlled with a parameter). Regards, Keith On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net wrote: Hi Michael, I guess I need some clarification on what you mean by missing. When I process your bookinfo element with the epub3 stylesheets, the package.opf file does contain the following metadata: meta property=dcterms:rightsCopyright © 2001 - 2011 John Doe/meta meta property=dcterms:rightsHolderJohn Doe/meta meta property=dcterms:publisherPrivate person/meta meta property=dcterms:subjectNon fiction/meta meta property=dcterms:subjectTechnical article/meta So I'm not sure what's missing. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: Michael Wiedmann m...@miwie.in-berlin.de To: DocBook Apps ML docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Cc: Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data Hi Bob, working with the latest Beta2 of the EPUB3 extensions I'm missing some metadata in the resulting EPUB file (which are present if working with the original EPUB2 XSL stylesheets): bookinfo id=bookinfo titleSome Title/title subtitleSubtitle/subtitle author firstnameFirstname/firstnamesurnameSurname/surname /author revhistory revision revnumber0.0.1/revnumber date2011-09-25/date revremarkRemark/revremark /revision /revhistory !-- MISSING -- copyright year2001 dash; 2011/year holderJohn Doe/holder /copyright !-- MISSING -- publisherpublishernamePrivate person/publishername/publisher !-- MISSING -- subjectset subject subjecttermNon fiction/subjectterm /subject subject subjecttermTechnical article/subjectterm /subject /subjectset /bookinfo Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
Keith Fahlgren wrote: You can include the (somewhat deprecated) DCMES versions as well: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#sec-opf-dcmes-optional This (duplication) will help older EPUB 2 reading systems (and should probably be controlled with a parameter). Actually I did use an EPUB2 (ebook-viewer of Calibre) reader to check the resulting EPUB3 file. This might explain why I didn't see the (expected) metadata. Regards Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data
OK, I started development with the May 23 version of the package spec, which did not include those optional DCMES versions: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications-20110523.html They were added in the Sept 8 version of the spec. So I'll update the stylesheet to output the optional DCMES elements too, with a parameter to make them optional. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: Keith Fahlgren abdela...@gmail.com To: Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net Cc: Michael Wiedmann m...@miwie.in-berlin.de; DocBook Apps ML docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data Hi, You can include the (somewhat deprecated) DCMES versions as well: http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-publications.html#sec-opf-dcmes-optional This (duplication) will help older EPUB 2 reading systems (and should probably be controlled with a parameter). Regards, Keith On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net wrote: Hi Michael, I guess I need some clarification on what you mean by missing. When I process your bookinfo element with the epub3 stylesheets, the package.opf file does contain the following metadata: meta property=dcterms:rightsCopyright © 2001 - 2011 John Doe/meta meta property=dcterms:rightsHolderJohn Doe/meta meta property=dcterms:publisherPrivate person/meta meta property=dcterms:subjectNon fiction/meta meta property=dcterms:subjectTechnical article/meta So I'm not sure what's missing. Bob Stayton Sagehill Enterprises b...@sagehill.net - Original Message - From: Michael Wiedmann m...@miwie.in-berlin.de To: DocBook Apps ML docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org Cc: Bob Stayton b...@sagehill.net Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [docbook-apps] EPUB3: missing some meta data Hi Bob, working with the latest Beta2 of the EPUB3 extensions I'm missing some metadata in the resulting EPUB file (which are present if working with the original EPUB2 XSL stylesheets): bookinfo id=bookinfo titleSome Title/title subtitleSubtitle/subtitle author firstnameFirstname/firstnamesurnameSurname/surname /author revhistory revision revnumber0.0.1/revnumber date2011-09-25/date revremarkRemark/revremark /revision /revhistory !-- MISSING -- copyright year2001 dash; 2011/year holderJohn Doe/holder /copyright !-- MISSING -- publisherpublishernamePrivate person/publishername/publisher !-- MISSING -- subjectset subject subjecttermNon fiction/subjectterm /subject subject subjecttermTechnical article/subjectterm /subject /subjectset /bookinfo Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
