Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Hi David, Thanks for the suggestions, valuable as usual. Indeed if the target element has some sort of a title it would be useful to show it in the left part. This would make also the quick find work on the title content as well. If you want to test an Oxygen 14.1 beta kit, just contact us directly by email. Regards, Radu Radu Coravu oXygen/ XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger http://www.oxygenxml.com On 8/15/2012 7:56 PM, David Cramer wrote: On 08/15/2012 02:20 AM, Radu Coravu wrote: Bu the way, good new, in Oxygen 14.1 the actions for inserting xrefs and links in the Author page will be more evolved, they will show a dialog which will allow you to quick find a reference ID. Please see the attached image. And yes, if you choose to insert from the master file, all IDs from all xi:includes will be collected and presented for intertion. This looks very cool. So if you pick a section from the list I'm guessing you'll see the title in the window the right? Could it be configured to show in the left pane: elementname - title or info/title (if available) - [id value] Really what people want is the same functionality of the current olink dialog (where you pick from a list of titles) but without the effort of setting up olink support. Of course you're trying to implement this generically so it's useful for arbitrary schemas where the olink dialog can rely on elements used in DocBook. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it. Thanks, David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Hi Robert, I was pleasantly surprised to see that copy from html into an Oxygen docbook file works surprisingly well. Yes, it's useful to quickly import some content (especially tables, lists) while converting some of the styling to Docbook tags. I have more problems when pasting from MSWord directly -- which is odd, because my html comes from MS Word after processing through Wordoff, (an online utility for tidying up Word-generated HTML). What would those problems be? We try to convert the HTML flavor MS Word sets in the clipboard to Docbook but MS Word produces quite complex XHTML structures and maybe improvements are possible in this area. If you have a test document you want to share you could also write us directly at supp...@oxygenxml.com. Regards, Radu Radu Coravu oXygen/ XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger http://www.oxygenxml.com On 8/15/2012 2:47 AM, Robert Nagle wrote: I just wanted to say that as a technical writer using docbook, I find that Oxygen XML Author does 98% of what I need. It's about $150 cheaper than the XML Editor license. XML Editor has a few more debugging features which for me are not terribly important. On the other hand, it has some cool wysiwig features and epub support. I was pleasantly surprised to see that copy from html into an Oxygen docbook file works surprisingly well. I have more problems when pasting from MSWord directly -- which is odd, because my html comes from MS Word after processing through Wordoff, (an online utility for tidying up Word-generated HTML). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Hi Johan, You are using Docbook 5 (as you were mentioning xml:ids). If it is Relax NG or XML Schema based: Basically in order to propose you the entire list of IDREFs Oxygen needs to validate the master document (which xi:includes all modules) instead of the module which is opened. So when working on the module (chapter) you can create a validation scenario which validates the master XML document with the default engine. This should be enough for the content completion to propose you all IDs. But if you are using Docbook 5 DTD-based (and you probably are): Oxygen uses Xerces for validation and when parsing XML files with associated DTD schemas Xerces will parse and validate the XML document before the xi:include's are resolved. Because of this the gathered IDs will also be incomplete, even if the master file is validated instead. So this is probably your case, you had to add validation units for each of the module in order to parse them all and gather IDs. We know about this limitation and we'll try to remove it in a future version. Bu the way, good new, in Oxygen 14.1 the actions for inserting xrefs and links in the Author page will be more evolved, they will show a dialog which will allow you to quick find a reference ID. Please see the attached image. And yes, if you choose to insert from the master file, all IDs from all xi:includes will be collected and presented for intertion. Regards, Radu Radu Coravu oXygen/ XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger http://www.oxygenxml.com On 8/15/2012 8:24 AM, Johan Persson wrote: (This is a bit off-topic but I'm staying in thread since it might be of interest to the docbook community) Now I'm curious :-) If you create a master document which (x)includes a bunch of files, say chapters, in Oxygen it will work in the Author view, i.e. showing the complete document allowing you to navigate around. However, the problem is that if you are in say, Chapter 1 then the auto-completion (in the attribute view) for say xlink:href will not (at least not for me) populate the dropdown list in the attribute view with xml:id that has been defined outside the current file, say in Chapter 2. The only way I found to fix this is to add all files in the project as files in the validation configuration then the autocompletiong will find all defined xml:id's in all files. /J On 2012-08-13 22:38, Ron Catterall wrote: I don't understand this xinclude problem with oxygen. Oxygen has been handling my xincludes, and nested xincludes, seamlessly from versions around 7 or 8 at least. There was a base problem with the earlier versions (back to v.2 in my experience) - see this list about 5 or 6 years ago which gave trouble with xinclude nesting, but as far as I know that has been sorted out. I don't use any 'tricks'. I just loaded v.14 on a new machine and it all worked straight out of the box on nested xincludes. On 13/08/2012 12:42, Johan Persson wrote: Kind of. If you like me use a master file with XInclude:s it takes a trick to get Oxygens to resolve all references and then it works really well. This trick has been available for quite some time/versions - but it is not obvious. You have to add all includes as files in the validation schema. Then assign the validation schema to all included modules. Having done that it will be possible to handle XML includes as expected, all ref:s in all moduels can be resolved by auto-completion. Unfortunately the recenet addition of master file in Oxygen (which I thought would handle this) does not seem to work this way for plain XML files (at least I didn't get it to work). It works fine for XSLT stylesheets though. In regards to the comments about price for Oxygen I would say that it is very reasonable priced given its capabilities and the speed up it will make in the writing of XML (and XSLT stylesheets). It would be very easy to motivate its cost in a business setting. Of course, for a hobbyist it would be harder but I believe Oxygen also has a very cheap hobbyist not-for-profit license that is less than US $100 Just my 2c /J On 2012-08-13 19:11, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 4:41 PM, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. The last time I tried opening one of my DocBook manuals with it (version 9, maybe?) it didn't handle XML Includes gracefully. I like to have a top-level document that simply includes all the chapter files, which lets me edit the chapters individually. This keeps file sizes reasonable and (much more important) localizes VCS comments to the relevant section of the document. As I recall, oXygen sort of kind of attempted to open the top-level document, but didn't give me the seamless WYSIWYG view I expected: an editable version of the final PDF output. If instead I opened an individual chapter file, it got confused by the
RE: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
But if you are using Docbook 5 DTD-based (and you probably are): Oxygen uses Xerces for validation and when parsing XML files with associated DTD schemas Xerces will parse and validate the XML document before the xi:include's are resolved. Because of this the gathered IDs will also be incomplete, even if the master file is validated instead. So this is probably your case, you had to add validation units for each of the module in order to parse them all and gather IDs. Some details of this are also discussed in my 3 years old post: http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic4079.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 08/15/2012 02:20 AM, Radu Coravu wrote: Bu the way, good new, in Oxygen 14.1 the actions for inserting xrefs and links in the Author page will be more evolved, they will show a dialog which will allow you to quick find a reference ID. Please see the attached image. And yes, if you choose to insert from the master file, all IDs from all xi:includes will be collected and presented for intertion. This looks very cool. So if you pick a section from the list I'm guessing you'll see the title in the window the right? Could it be configured to show in the left pane: elementname - title or info/title (if available) - [id value] Really what people want is the same functionality of the current olink dialog (where you pick from a list of titles) but without the effort of setting up olink support. Of course you're trying to implement this generically so it's useful for arbitrary schemas where the olink dialog can rely on elements used in DocBook. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it. Thanks, David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Hi Paul, Usually commercial WYSIWYG XML Editors are in a certain price range. We are at the lower bound of that range. We cannot go lower because we consider the editor is worth the price. For academic organizations (like universities) or for people who want to learn XML our price is very low: $64 for the XML Editor which includes both visual editing and XSLT and schema developing tools. Regards, Radu Radu Coravu oXygen/ XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger http://www.oxygenxml.com On 8/13/2012 10:12 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: On 13/08/2012 18:04, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 5:10 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: On 12/08/2012 23:41, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. Goodness, this product is well overpriced If you're looking at it as a DocBook word processor, sure. But oXygen does quite a bit more than that. Check out the feature matrix: http://www.oxygenxml.com/feature_matrix.html oXygen Author is priced appropriately for what it is: a piece of a high end publication system. Compared to top notch Java IDE (Jetbrains) or top-notch java profiler (YOurkit) I think the price is expensive. It may have a vast feature matrix, but it is essentially an Xml Editor/Processor I doubt many customers use the majority of features. But I guess this discussion is offtopic. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Hi Johan, Just one small remark: Unfortunately the recenet addition of master file in Oxygen (which I thought would handle this) does not seem to work this way for plain XML files (at least I didn't get it to work). It works fine for XSLT stylesheets though. You are right, we will try to make this new master files support also work for XML-type files. Regards, Radu Radu Coravu oXygen/ XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger http://www.oxygenxml.com On 8/13/2012 8:42 PM, Johan Persson wrote: Kind of. If you like me use a master file with XInclude:s it takes a trick to get Oxygens to resolve all references and then it works really well. This trick has been available for quite some time/versions - but it is not obvious. You have to add all includes as files in the validation schema. Then assign the validation schema to all included modules. Having done that it will be possible to handle XML includes as expected, all ref:s in all moduels can be resolved by auto-completion. Unfortunately the recenet addition of master file in Oxygen (which I thought would handle this) does not seem to work this way for plain XML files (at least I didn't get it to work). It works fine for XSLT stylesheets though. In regards to the comments about price for Oxygen I would say that it is very reasonable priced given its capabilities and the speed up it will make in the writing of XML (and XSLT stylesheets). It would be very easy to motivate its cost in a business setting. Of course, for a hobbyist it would be harder but I believe Oxygen also has a very cheap hobbyist not-for-profit license that is less than US $100 Just my 2c /J On 2012-08-13 19:11, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 4:41 PM, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. The last time I tried opening one of my DocBook manuals with it (version 9, maybe?) it didn't handle XML Includes gracefully. I like to have a top-level document that simply includes all the chapter files, which lets me edit the chapters individually. This keeps file sizes reasonable and (much more important) localizes VCS comments to the relevant section of the document. As I recall, oXygen sort of kind of attempted to open the top-level document, but didn't give me the seamless WYSIWYG view I expected: an editable version of the final PDF output. If instead I opened an individual chapter file, it got confused by the cross-references, since it didn't understand that it was looking at a tree in a forest. Have they fixed this limitation, or does it still push you toward putting the entire document in a single file? - To unsubscribe, e-mail:docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org mailto:docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail:docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org mailto:docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
I just wanted to say that as a technical writer using docbook, I find that Oxygen XML Author does 98% of what I need. It's about $150 cheaper than the XML Editor license. XML Editor has a few more debugging features which for me are not terribly important. On the other hand, it has some cool wysiwig features and epub support. I was pleasantly surprised to see that copy from html into an Oxygen docbook file works surprisingly well. I have more problems when pasting from MSWord directly -- which is odd, because my html comes from MS Word after processing through Wordoff, (an online utility for tidying up Word-generated HTML). -- Robert Nagle 6121 Winsome Ln #56C, Houston TX 77057-5581 (H) 713 893 3424/ (W) 832-251-7522 Carbon Neutral Since Jan 2010 http://www.robertnagle.info - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
(This is a bit off-topic but I'm staying in thread since it might be of interest to the docbook community) Now I'm curious :-) If you create a master document which (x)includes a bunch of files, say chapters, in Oxygen it will work in the Author view, i.e. showing the complete document allowing you to navigate around. However, the problem is that if you are in say, Chapter 1 then the auto-completion (in the attribute view) for say xlink:href will not (at least not for me) populate the dropdown list in the attribute view with xml:id that has been defined outside the current file, say in Chapter 2. The only way I found to fix this is to add all files in the project as files in the validation configuration then the autocompletiong will find all defined xml:id's in all files. /J On 2012-08-13 22:38, Ron Catterall wrote: I don't understand this xinclude problem with oxygen. Oxygen has been handling my xincludes, and nested xincludes, seamlessly from versions around 7 or 8 at least. There was a base problem with the earlier versions (back to v.2 in my experience) - see this list about 5 or 6 years ago which gave trouble with xinclude nesting, but as far as I know that has been sorted out. I don't use any 'tricks'. I just loaded v.14 on a new machine and it all worked straight out of the box on nested xincludes. On 13/08/2012 12:42, Johan Persson wrote: Kind of. If you like me use a master file with XInclude:s it takes a trick to get Oxygens to resolve all references and then it works really well. This trick has been available for quite some time/versions - but it is not obvious. You have to add all includes as files in the validation schema. Then assign the validation schema to all included modules. Having done that it will be possible to handle XML includes as expected, all ref:s in all moduels can be resolved by auto-completion. Unfortunately the recenet addition of master file in Oxygen (which I thought would handle this) does not seem to work this way for plain XML files (at least I didn't get it to work). It works fine for XSLT stylesheets though. In regards to the comments about price for Oxygen I would say that it is very reasonable priced given its capabilities and the speed up it will make in the writing of XML (and XSLT stylesheets). It would be very easy to motivate its cost in a business setting. Of course, for a hobbyist it would be harder but I believe Oxygen also has a very cheap hobbyist not-for-profit license that is less than US $100 Just my 2c /J On 2012-08-13 19:11, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 4:41 PM, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/ [1]), which works very well with DocBook. The last time I tried opening one of my DocBook manuals with it (version 9, maybe?) it didn't handle XML Includes gracefully. I like to have a top-level document that simply includes all the chapter files, which lets me edit the chapters individually. This keeps file sizes reasonable and (much more important) localizes VCS comments to the relevant section of the document. As I recall, oXygen sort of kind of attempted to open the top-level document, but didn't give me the seamless WYSIWYG view I expected: an editable version of the final PDF output. If instead I opened an individual chapter file, it got confused by the cross-references, since it didn't understand that it was looking at a tree in a forest. Have they fixed this limitation, or does it still push you toward putting the entire document in a single file? - To unsubscribe, e-mail:docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org [2] docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail:docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org [3]docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org -- r...@catterall.net Links: -- [1] http://www.oxygenxml.com/ [2] mailto:docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org [3] mailto:docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 13/08/2012 02:19, deannel...@aol.com wrote: Paul, I've used oXygenXML before and if you can afford it, it will accelerate your content development. However, if you need a cheap (free) editor with OK XML support, use Eclipse which has XML support and a spell checker. I think youve missed the point here Dean, I want a WYSIWYG editor which can save as docbook format, not an Xml Editor Regards, Dean Nelson In a message dated 8/12/2012 4:09:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, paul_t...@fastmail.fm writes: On 12/08/2012 23:41, Richard Hamilton wrote: Paul, There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. Best Regards, Dick Hamilton --- XML Press XML for Technical Communicators http://xmlpress.net hamil...@xmlpress.net Goodness, this product is well overpriced http://www.oxygenxml.com/buy.html?utm_expid=4313807-0utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxygenxml.com%2Fxml_developer.html Paul On Aug 12, 2012, at 3:05 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 08/13/2012 09:14 AM, Paul Taylor wrote: On 13/08/2012 02:19, deannel...@aol.com wrote: Paul, I've used oXygenXML before and if you can afford it, it will accelerate your content development. However, if you need a cheap (free) editor with OK XML support, use Eclipse which has XML support and a spell checker. I think youve missed the point here Dean, I want a WYSIWYG editor which can save as docbook format, not an Xml Editor oXygen has a true Wysiwyg mode and can use docbook. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 13/08/2012 09:49, DaveP wrote: On 08/13/2012 09:14 AM, Paul Taylor wrote: On 13/08/2012 02:19, deannel...@aol.com wrote: Paul, I've used oXygenXML before and if you can afford it, it will accelerate your content development. However, if you need a cheap (free) editor with OK XML support, use Eclipse which has XML support and a spell checker. I think youve missed the point here Dean, I want a WYSIWYG editor which can save as docbook format, not an Xml Editor oXygen has a true Wysiwyg mode and can use docbook. Yes, but Eclipse doesnt does it ? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Hi Paul, On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 23:05:41 +0100 Paul Taylor paul_t...@fastmail.fm wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. Which editor did you use? Some of your troubles can be cured by activating syntax highlighting. :) So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Oxygen XML was already mentioned. Do you know Serna? It is also an XML editor and has both a normal text mode and a WYSIWYG mode: http://www.syntext.com/products/serna-free/ Actually, it's licensed under GPL. -- Gruß/Regards, Thomas Schraitle - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Besides the ones already mentioned: XMLMind: http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/ Haven't used it myself, though. -Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
AFAIK, OpenOffice 3.3.0 can save your documents in docbook format. On 13 Αυγ 2012, at 1:05 , Paul Taylor paul_t...@fastmail.fm wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Am Mon, 13 Aug 2012, Gregory Papangeles schrieb AFAIK, OpenOffice 3.3.0 can save your documents in docbook format. But it is not valid :-(( Heinz -- Buchsatz für Autoren. Vom Manuskript zum Buch www.pahlke-online.de Bücher abseits des Mainstreams www.buchentdeckungen.de Barrierefreies Webdesignwww.Pahlke-KunstWebDesign.de - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 13/08/2012 12:31, Heinz W. Pahlke wrote: Am Mon, 13 Aug 2012, Gregory Papangeles schrieb AFAIK, OpenOffice 3.3.0 can save your documents in docbook format. But it is not valid :-(( Heinz Just tried it, and its Docbook 4 rather than Docbook 5 :( But not sure its invalid. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
You're correct Paul. However, even the WYSIWYG tools mentioned do not give you true WYSIWYGness like Word will give you. Its more of a rough approximation. It because of the nature of divorcing the content from the style (especially in the FO generation). But if rough approximation is good enough then the tools that folks have suggested will get you there. Eclipse probably won't. In a message dated 8/13/2012 1:14:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, paul_t...@fastmail.fm writes: I think youve missed the point here Dean, I want a WYSIWYG editor which can save as docbook format, not an Xml Editor
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 13/08/2012 14:17, deannel...@aol.com wrote: You're correct Paul. However, even the WYSIWYG tools mentioned do not give you true WYSIWYGness like Word will give you. Its more of a rough approximation. It because of the nature of divorcing the content from the style (especially in the FO generation). But if rough approximation is good enough then the tools that folks have suggested will get you there. Eclipse probably won't. In a message dated 8/13/2012 1:14:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, paul_t...@fastmail.fm writes: I think youve missed the point here Dean, I want a WYSIWYG editor which can save as docbook format, not an Xml Editor Im giving Oxygen a go, found it a bit difficult to use at first but now getting the hang of it. One advantage is does seem to have is not only can you work with docbook xml its also setup to generate html/pdf ecetera form the xml with minium effort. Paul
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:21:55 +0100, Paul Taylor paul_t...@fastmail.fm wrote: Im giving Oxygen a go, found it a bit difficult to use at first but now getting the hang of it. One advantage is does seem to have is not only can you work with docbook xml its also setup to generate html/pdf ecetera form the xml with minium effort. XMLMind (http://www.xmlmind.com) has also been mentioned. We use it in our projects with a slightly modified version of DocBook v5 (we added a couple additional constructs, which was not a hard task). There's a slight initial learning curve--I don't think there's any DocBook editor which is truly wysiwyg--but our writers and editors have adopted well. There is a free version as well as a licensed version; the free version is quite capable, in fact there's very little that the professional version adds. (We do use the pro version, in part because we need its capability to interact with a WebDAV server for purposes of using svn.) Mike Maxwell University of Maryland - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 8/12/2012 5:10 PM, Paul Taylor wrote:
On 12/08/2012 23:41, Richard Hamilton wrote:
There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will
handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen
(http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook.
Goodness, this product is well overpriced
If you're looking at it as a DocBook word processor, sure. But oXygen
does quite a bit more than that. Check out the feature matrix:
http://www.oxygenxml.com/feature_matrix.html
oXygen Author is priced appropriately for what it is: a piece of a high
end publication system.
Not that I'm trying to arm-twist you into buying it. I, too, would be
happy to see a plain word processor for DocBook.
That is, something without a lot of formatting power, which simply
happened to use .dbx to store its data. The main difference between
such a program and a normal word processor would flow from DocBook's
content vs. presentation separation: it would do a lot more to force you
toward styles rather than ad hoc formatting, and you wouldn't have the
option of things like free-floating layout frames. I think to get a low
price like you're looking for, you'd also have to give up on the ability
to edit stylesheets.
There's kind of a slippery slope here, the sort that caused the desktop
databases most PC users had in the 80s to disappear:
o People keep pushing the tool to do vastly more complicated things
than the tool was designed for.
o The developers add features to address the demand.
o The tool becomes too complicated for normals to understand so
demand from that quarter drops off.
o The developer raises the prices and shoots for the high end market.
What you get is a world where people believe Excel is a database, and
{insert favorite text editor here} is a DocBook editor.
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Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
I have been using the free version of Serna. It is the only app which support XInclude AFAIK. I used then the docboox 4.x - docbook 5 converter since serna only support docbook 4.x http://www.syntext.com/products/serna-free/ HTH On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Paul Taylor paul_t...@fastmail.fm wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org -- Mathieu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 8/12/2012 4:41 PM, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. The last time I tried opening one of my DocBook manuals with it (version 9, maybe?) it didn't handle XML Includes gracefully. I like to have a top-level document that simply includes all the chapter files, which lets me edit the chapters individually. This keeps file sizes reasonable and (much more important) localizes VCS comments to the relevant section of the document. As I recall, oXygen sort of kind of attempted to open the top-level document, but didn't give me the seamless WYSIWYG view I expected: an editable version of the final PDF output. If instead I opened an individual chapter file, it got confused by the cross-references, since it didn't understand that it was looking at a tree in a forest. Have they fixed this limitation, or does it still push you toward putting the entire document in a single file? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Kind of. If you like me use a master file with XInclude:s it takes a trick to get Oxygens to resolve all references and then it works really well. This trick has been available for quite some time/versions - but it is not obvious. You have to add all includes as files in the validation schema. Then assign the validation schema to all included modules. Having done that it will be possible to handle XML includes as expected, all ref:s in all moduels can be resolved by auto-completion. Unfortunately the recenet addition of master file in Oxygen (which I thought would handle this) does not seem to work this way for plain XML files (at least I didn't get it to work). It works fine for XSLT stylesheets though. In regards to the comments about price for Oxygen I would say that it is very reasonable priced given its capabilities and the speed up it will make in the writing of XML (and XSLT stylesheets). It would be very easy to motivate its cost in a business setting. Of course, for a hobbyist it would be harder but I believe Oxygen also has a very cheap hobbyist not-for-profit license that is less than US $100 Just my 2c /J On 2012-08-13 19:11, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 4:41 PM, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/ [1]), which works very well with DocBook. The last time I tried opening one of my DocBook manuals with it (version 9, maybe?) it didn't handle XML Includes gracefully. I like to have a top-level document that simply includes all the chapter files, which lets me edit the chapters individually. This keeps file sizes reasonable and (much more important) localizes VCS comments to the relevant section of the document. As I recall, oXygen sort of kind of attempted to open the top-level document, but didn't give me the seamless WYSIWYG view I expected: an editable version of the final PDF output. If instead I opened an individual chapter file, it got confused by the cross-references, since it didn't understand that it was looking at a tree in a forest. Have they fixed this limitation, or does it still push you toward putting the entire document in a single file? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org Links: -- [1] http://www.oxygenxml.com/
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 08/13/2012 12:07 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: I have been using the free version of Serna. It is the only app which support XInclude AFAIK. I used then the docboox 4.x - docbook 5 converter since serna only support docbook 4.x http://www.syntext.com/products/serna-free/ There's a DocBook 5 xsd now, so it should be possible to make Serna support DocBook 5.x if someone had the inclination and time: http://www.docbook.org/xml/5.0/xsd/ David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 8/12/12, Paul Taylor paul_t...@fastmail.fm wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but to hijack the thead - have HTML 5 + CSS3 sufficiently advanced the art that WYSIWYGness can be achieved? Personally, I think the answer is yes, esp. with something like Google Web Toolkit as the development platform. That would deliver a browser-based solution; a web server would still be required to deliver and maintain the document storage. Comments? Brickbats? Cheers, jec - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 13/08/2012 18:04, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 5:10 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: On 12/08/2012 23:41, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. Goodness, this product is well overpriced If you're looking at it as a DocBook word processor, sure. But oXygen does quite a bit more than that. Check out the feature matrix: http://www.oxygenxml.com/feature_matrix.html oXygen Author is priced appropriately for what it is: a piece of a high end publication system. Compared to top notch Java IDE (Jetbrains) or top-notch java profiler (YOurkit) I think the price is expensive. It may have a vast feature matrix, but it is essentially an Xml Editor/Processor I doubt many customers use the majority of features. But I guess this discussion is offtopic. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
I don't understand this xinclude problem with oxygen. Oxygen has been handling my xincludes, and nested xincludes, seamlessly from versions around 7 or 8 at least. There was a base problem with the earlier versions (back to v.2 in my experience) - see this list about 5 or 6 years ago which gave trouble with xinclude nesting, but as far as I know that has been sorted out. I don't use any 'tricks'. I just loaded v.14 on a new machine and it all worked straight out of the box on nested xincludes. On 13/08/2012 12:42, Johan Persson wrote: Kind of. If you like me use a master file with XInclude:s it takes a trick to get Oxygens to resolve all references and then it works really well. This trick has been available for quite some time/versions - but it is not obvious. You have to add all includes as files in the validation schema. Then assign the validation schema to all included modules. Having done that it will be possible to handle XML includes as expected, all ref:s in all moduels can be resolved by auto-completion. Unfortunately the recenet addition of master file in Oxygen (which I thought would handle this) does not seem to work this way for plain XML files (at least I didn't get it to work). It works fine for XSLT stylesheets though. In regards to the comments about price for Oxygen I would say that it is very reasonable priced given its capabilities and the speed up it will make in the writing of XML (and XSLT stylesheets). It would be very easy to motivate its cost in a business setting. Of course, for a hobbyist it would be harder but I believe Oxygen also has a very cheap hobbyist not-for-profit license that is less than US $100 Just my 2c /J On 2012-08-13 19:11, Warren Young wrote: On 8/12/2012 4:41 PM, Richard Hamilton wrote: There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. The last time I tried opening one of my DocBook manuals with it (version 9, maybe?) it didn't handle XML Includes gracefully. I like to have a top-level document that simply includes all the chapter files, which lets me edit the chapters individually. This keeps file sizes reasonable and (much more important) localizes VCS comments to the relevant section of the document. As I recall, oXygen sort of kind of attempted to open the top-level document, but didn't give me the seamless WYSIWYG view I expected: an editable version of the final PDF output. If instead I opened an individual chapter file, it got confused by the cross-references, since it didn't understand that it was looking at a tree in a forest. Have they fixed this limitation, or does it still push you toward putting the entire document in a single file? - To unsubscribe, e-mail:docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org mailto:docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail:docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org mailto:docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org -- r...@catterall.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 13.8.2012 21:00, Jeff Chimene wrote: Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but to hijack the thead - have HTML 5 + CSS3 sufficiently advanced the art that WYSIWYGness can be achieved? Sure, for example http://xopus.com/ -- -- Jirka Kosek e-mail: ji...@kosek.cz http://xmlguru.cz -- Professional XML consulting and training services DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document processing -- OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO JTC1/SC34 member -- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:05:29 +0200, Jirka Kosek ji...@kosek.cz wrote: On 13.8.2012 21:00, Jeff Chimene wrote: Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but to hijack the thead - have HTML 5 + CSS3 sufficiently advanced the art that WYSIWYGness can be achieved? Sure, for example http://xopus.com/ I don't know enough about how these things work, but what happens if you resize your browser window--does the HTML change width to fit, or do you get a scroll bar if the window is narrower than the the anticipated text pane width? (I personally hate websites that do that, I'd much prefer that they wrap, but ymmv.) Mike Maxwell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Paul, There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. Best Regards, Dick Hamilton --- XML Press XML for Technical Communicators http://xmlpress.net hamil...@xmlpress.net On Aug 12, 2012, at 3:05 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
On 12/08/2012 23:41, Richard Hamilton wrote: Paul, There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. Best Regards, Dick Hamilton --- XML Press XML for Technical Communicators http://xmlpress.net hamil...@xmlpress.net Goodness, this product is well overpriced http://www.oxygenxml.com/buy.html?utm_expid=4313807-0utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxygenxml.com%2Fxml_developer.html Paul On Aug 12, 2012, at 3:05 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [docbook-apps] WYSIWYG Editor for docbook
Paul, I've used oXygenXML before and if you can afford it, it will accelerate your content development. However, if you need a cheap (free) editor with OK XML support, use Eclipse which has XML support and a spell checker. Regards, Dean Nelson In a message dated 8/12/2012 4:09:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, paul_t...@fastmail.fm writes: On 12/08/2012 23:41, Richard Hamilton wrote: Paul, There are a bunch of very good visual editors out there that will handle DocBook. The one I know best is Oxygen (http://www.oxygenxml.com/), which works very well with DocBook. Best Regards, Dick Hamilton --- XML Press XML for Technical Communicators http://xmlpress.net hamil...@xmlpress.net Goodness, this product is well overpriced http://www.oxygenxml.com/buy.html?utm_expid=4313807-0utm_referrer=http%3A%2 F%2Fwww.oxygenxml.com%2Fxml_developer.html Paul On Aug 12, 2012, at 3:05 PM, Paul Taylor wrote: In a previous project I used docbook 4 to create help text for an application which I then used it to generate html and Javahelp. The generation worked very well but I found it very difficult writing the help text embedded within the docbook tags, it wasn't until the final output was generated that I could see my typos and generally bad english. So considering using docbook v5 for a new project but is there a WYSIWYG editor/plugin available, i.e create help text in word/open office type program but am able to save it in docbook format ? Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: docbook-apps-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
