Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1 chapter 6: Impress

2016-07-22 Thread Jean Weber
On Friday, July 22, 2016, Hazel Russman  wrote:

> I have just uploaded this to the feedback folder.
>
> --
> Hazel
>
>
Thanks, Hazel. I'll get on this chapter today or tomorrow.

--Jean

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting started 5.1 Chapter 9. Math

2016-06-20 Thread Olivier Hallot
Thanks Hazel!

Em 20/06/2016 11:53, Hazel Russman escreveu:
> This has been proofread and uploaded to the feedback folder. Chapter 10 
> downloaded. No more work today!
> 

-- 
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Comunidade LibreOffice
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil - Local time: UTC-03
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1 Guide

2016-05-17 Thread Olivier Hallot
Hello Jean

Em 17/05/2016 02:02, Jean Weber escreveu:
> I've gone through Chapters 1, 2, 3 and accepted Hazel's edits and
> replaced a figure in Ch1 that I had flagged as containing an error.
> 
> I also replaced an out-of-date figure in Chapter 4. I think all 4
> chapters and the Preface are ready to publish. They are here:
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo-5.1/
> 
> Olivier, shall I continue to act as publisher for chapters when I
> think they are done, especially when no one else is doing any further
> technical reviewing on them or even indicates an interest in doing so?
> 
> --Jean
> 
I'll be glad to have you as publisher.

Our periodic hangouts aims to turn the documentation production into an
exciting activity and increase our team. From last may 4th, I expect new
chapters updates of the 5.1 GS, ad I have just uploaded the Calc chapter
of the same.

Kind regards
-- 
Olivier Hallot
Comunidade LibreOffice
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil - Local time: UTC-03
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-08 Thread Andrew Wetmore
Sylvia, have you logged in?

Everybody, the attached file is a screenshot of what I mean. The existing
text says "You", which is direct and immediate, and is NOT the overuse of
"you" people have been talking about. The proposed change is "Everybody",
which is indirect and distant. It does not catch the reader the same way as
the original does.


​

I am beginning to think somebody heard "we say 'you' too much" and just
decided to get rid of "you" everywhere. The only places that need work are
where the text says something like "You then push the red button...", where
"You" is obviously not needed.

a

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Sylvia Sánchez  wrote:

> Same here.  Folder with no files.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Sylvia
>



-- 
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-08 Thread Sylvia Sánchez
Same here.  Folder with no files.


Cheers,
Sylvia

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-08 Thread Andrew Wetmore
Look at the first page of the preface.
On Apr 8, 2016 6:40 AM, "Lera Goncharuk"  wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> В письме от 7 апреля 2016 11:00:45 пользователь Andrew Wetmore написал:
> > I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
> >
> >  I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> > more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> > documentation.
> I do not think that the excessive use of "you" is good style. But  team
> has to
> decide this.
> In any case, I do not see such much of "you" in popular science journals
> (which have been writing really beautiful and plain language) and technical
> documentation (that does not use "you" never).
>
> PS: I am not native English speaker, of course.
>
> Best regards,
> Lera
>

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-08 Thread Lera Goncharuk
Hi Andrew,

В письме от 7 апреля 2016 11:00:45 пользователь Andrew Wetmore написал:
> I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
> 
>  I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> documentation.
I do not think that the excessive use of "you" is good style. But  team has to 
decide this.
In any case, I do not see such much of "you" in popular science journals 
(which have been writing really beautiful and plain language) and technical 
documentation (that does not use "you" never).

PS: I am not native English speaker, of course.

Best regards,
Lera

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-08 Thread Lera Goncharuk
Hello Olivier,

Can I upload the latest draft Getting Started 5.1 Preface?
I have made a few more change?

Best regards,
Lera

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Andrew Wetmore
No: what I mean by "indirect" is changing "you can do x" to "the user can
do x". This sort of deflective writing reduces the immediacy of this being
information for the person who is reading it right then.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamil...@acm.org>
wrote:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jean Weber [mailto:jeanwe...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:38
> > To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
> >
> > Active voice, direct speech (do this), and use of "you" (but not
> > over-using "you" or the possessive "your") is standard modern
> > technical writing in English. All of the books are written that way,
> > and we should not even consider changing that.
> >
> > However, some writers (Peter Schofield in particular) tended to
> > over-use "you" and "your," so I have been changing "your" to "the" in
> > sentences like "When you have finished editing your image, add it to
> > your document." becomes "When you have finished editing the image, add
> > it to the document." He would also write things like, "To print part
> > of a page, you do [X]" which I have been changing to "To print part of
> > a page, do [X]" -- the "you" there isn't necessary.
> [orcmid]
>
> What about "Complete editing the image and add it to the document" and
> "Print part of a page is by [X]" or is that what you mean by indirect?
> >
> > --Jean
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to:
> > documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> > Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
> > unsubscribe/
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> > deleted
>
>
> --
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>



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Olivier Hallot
Hello

You are right.

You must be talking about the Preface. Track changes accept/reject
filtered by author is your friend to put the text on track.

also for quick communication, we have an IRC channel for documentation:
in freenode, access #libreoffice-doc
https://webchat.freenode.net/

regards

Em 07/04/2016 13:24, Andrew Wetmore escreveu:
> That is good to know. However, in the material I am looking at, the
> edits do not seem to follow the style guide. The edits move from active
> to passive voice and from direct to indirect speech.
> 

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Comunidade LibreOffice
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Andrew Wetmore
That is good to know. However, in the material I am looking at, the edits
do not seem to follow the style guide. The edits move from active to
passive voice and from direct to indirect speech.


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Olivier Hallot <
olivier.hal...@libreoffice.org> wrote:

> Hello Andrew, All
>
> In ODF Authors site, you can get the writing style guide in
>
>  Home / LibreOffice / English / Resources for Contributors / Ch5 Style
> Guide
>
> I think it worth to all authors to follow it.
>
>
> Exerpt:
>
> Writing style
> The following list summarizes our preferred writing style. Some of these
> points are discussed in more detail in the tips for writers, reviews,
> and editors starting on page 6.
>
> * Use short, simple, easy-to-understand words and sentences. Be concise
> and clear.
>
> * Write in active voice, using passive voice only when necessary or
> appropriate. A case of appropriate passive voice is when the focus of
> the sentence is on the receiver of an action whose doer is obvious or is
> not important. For example, The File dialog box is displayed is OK.
>
> * Use the present tense, using future tense only when necessary or
> appropriate. Try to make your descriptions timeless. For example, write
> The File dialog box is displayed, rather than The File dialog box will
> be displayed. Use future tense only when one event is necessarily later
> than another. For example, If you use styles, your documents will be
> easier to maintain.
>
> * Avoid over-using you. For example, instead of saying if you want to
> have table headers repeat on a new page, you need to do yyy, say to have
> table headers repeat..., do yyy.
>
> * When appropriate (as in instructions), use the imperative mood. For
> example, instead of you should not use slang, say do not use slang.
>
> * In circumstances where the only alternative to you is the passive
> voice, use you. For example, instead of in this window xxx can be done,
> say in this window you can do xxx.
>
> * Use gender-neutral language, but don’t use awkward phrases like he or
> she to do so. See page 8 for some examples.
>
> Variations of English
>
> For consistency, when writing the user guides we are following US
> English spelling conventions and UK English punctuation conventions.
>
> See also “Punctuation” on page 6.
> You can use other spelling or punctuation conventions when writing other
> documents.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Olivier
>
>
> Em 07/04/2016 12:43, Andrew Wetmore escreveu:
> > I am also uncomfortable with the change from active to passive voice.
> > Passive voice is harder to read and to understand, expecially for those
> for
> > whom English is not the first language.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Wetmore 
> wrote:
> >
> >> I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
> >>
> >>  I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> >> more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> >> documentation.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman <
> hazeldeb...@googlemail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
> >>> Olivier Hallot  wrote:
> >>>
>  Hello
> 
>  In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
>  Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
>  folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
>  will be easy to see the changes.
> 
>  The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
>  this is a Getting Started book.
> 
>  It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
>  feedbak on the job already done.
> 
>  Thank you in advance
> 
> 
> >>>
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
> 
>  Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
>  issue on permissions I need to fix.
> 
> >>>
> >>> I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
> >>> and style.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> If any members of GCHQ are reading this, shame on you! I fought for
> >>> your right to belong to a trade union and now you are taking away my
> >>> right to privacy?
> >>>
> >>> H Russman
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
> >>> documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> >>> Problems?
> >>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >>> Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >>> List archive:
> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
> >>> All messages sent to this list will be 

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Olivier Hallot
Hello Andrew, All

In ODF Authors site, you can get the writing style guide in

 Home / LibreOffice / English / Resources for Contributors / Ch5 Style
Guide

I think it worth to all authors to follow it.


Exerpt:

Writing style
The following list summarizes our preferred writing style. Some of these
points are discussed in more detail in the tips for writers, reviews,
and editors starting on page 6.

* Use short, simple, easy-to-understand words and sentences. Be concise
and clear.

* Write in active voice, using passive voice only when necessary or
appropriate. A case of appropriate passive voice is when the focus of
the sentence is on the receiver of an action whose doer is obvious or is
not important. For example, The File dialog box is displayed is OK.

* Use the present tense, using future tense only when necessary or
appropriate. Try to make your descriptions timeless. For example, write
The File dialog box is displayed, rather than The File dialog box will
be displayed. Use future tense only when one event is necessarily later
than another. For example, If you use styles, your documents will be
easier to maintain.

* Avoid over-using you. For example, instead of saying if you want to
have table headers repeat on a new page, you need to do yyy, say to have
table headers repeat..., do yyy.

* When appropriate (as in instructions), use the imperative mood. For
example, instead of you should not use slang, say do not use slang.

* In circumstances where the only alternative to you is the passive
voice, use you. For example, instead of in this window xxx can be done,
say in this window you can do xxx.

* Use gender-neutral language, but don’t use awkward phrases like he or
she to do so. See page 8 for some examples.

Variations of English

For consistency, when writing the user guides we are following US
English spelling conventions and UK English punctuation conventions.

See also “Punctuation” on page 6.
You can use other spelling or punctuation conventions when writing other
documents.


Regards

Olivier


Em 07/04/2016 12:43, Andrew Wetmore escreveu:
> I am also uncomfortable with the change from active to passive voice.
> Passive voice is harder to read and to understand, expecially for those for
> whom English is not the first language.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Wetmore  wrote:
> 
>> I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
>>
>>  I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
>> more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
>> documentation.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman >> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
>>> Olivier Hallot  wrote:
>>>
 Hello

 In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
 Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
 folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
 will be easy to see the changes.

 The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
 this is a Getting Started book.

 It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
 feedbak on the job already done.

 Thank you in advance


>>> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1

 Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
 issue on permissions I need to fix.

>>>
>>> I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
>>> and style.
>>>
>>> --
>>> If any members of GCHQ are reading this, shame on you! I fought for
>>> your right to belong to a trade union and now you are taking away my
>>> right to privacy?
>>>
>>> H Russman
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
>>> documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>>> Problems?
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Wetmore
>>
>> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Comunidade LibreOffice
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Andrew Wetmore
I am also uncomfortable with the change from active to passive voice.
Passive voice is harder to read and to understand, expecially for those for
whom English is not the first language.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Wetmore  wrote:

> I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
>
>  I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> documentation.
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman  > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
>> Olivier Hallot  wrote:
>>
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
>> > Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
>> > folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
>> > will be easy to see the changes.
>> >
>> > The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
>> > this is a Getting Started book.
>> >
>> > It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
>> > feedbak on the job already done.
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
>> >
>> > Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
>> > issue on permissions I need to fix.
>> >
>>
>> I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
>> and style.
>>
>> --
>> If any members of GCHQ are reading this, shame on you! I fought for
>> your right to belong to a trade union and now you are taking away my
>> right to privacy?
>>
>> H Russman
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
>> documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
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http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Andrew Wetmore
I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":

 I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
documentation.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman 
wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
> Olivier Hallot  wrote:
>
> > Hello
> >
> > In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
> > Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
> > folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
> > will be easy to see the changes.
> >
> > The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
> > this is a Getting Started book.
> >
> > It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
> > feedbak on the job already done.
> >
> > Thank you in advance
> >
> >
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
> >
> > Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
> > issue on permissions I need to fix.
> >
>
> I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
> and style.
>
> --
> If any members of GCHQ are reading this, shame on you! I fought for
> your right to belong to a trade union and now you are taking away my
> right to privacy?
>
> H Russman
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>


-- 
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Hazel Russman
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
Olivier Hallot  wrote:

> Hello
> 
> In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
> Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
> folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
> will be easy to see the changes.
> 
> The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
> this is a Getting Started book.
> 
> It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
> feedbak on the job already done.
> 
> Thank you in advance
> 
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
> 
> Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
> issue on permissions I need to fix.
> 

I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
and style.

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H Russman

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Olivier Hallot
I just made them "publish internally", which I think will make them
available once logged in...

Em 07/04/2016 11:03, Andrew Wetmore escreveu:
> I see the folder, but no files.

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Comunidade LibreOffice
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1

2016-04-07 Thread Andrew Wetmore
I see the folder, but no files.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Olivier Hallot <
olivier.hal...@libreoffice.org> wrote:

> Hello
>
> In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
> Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft folder
> for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it will be
> easy to see the changes.
>
> The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that this
> is a Getting Started book.
>
> It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
> feedbak on the job already done.
>
> Thank you in advance
>
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
>
> Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
> issue on permissions I need to fix.
>
> --
> Olivier Hallot
> Comunidade LibreOffice
> http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
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>
>


-- 
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

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