Re: [Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Sean Gibbins]

On 29/08/10 19:59, Dan Dart wrote:

Just fri, libdvdcss is region-free. You don't need to set a region
when watching DVDs with it.
If I got the right end of the stick...
   


I thought that commercially produced DVD discs were region set by the 
manufacturer for different markets, and by agreement the hardware 
suppliers restrict hardware to certain regions for those same markets, 
in the case of PC DVD-Rs often allowing 5 changes before the region 
becomes permanent.


However, many (most?) DVD player/recorders are hackable via the remote 
and a 'secret' code, or via a firmware flash in the case of PC 
components. I guess no one wants to manufacture a region-hobbled unit 
when their competitors all 'accidentally' release the code to unlock 
theirs, giving them a competitive advantage, so they all pay lip service 
to the contract they all sign up to and churn out effectively 
region-free sets regardless.


Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that surely there is no need to 
set a region on content /you/ produce unless you want to? You are not 
bound by any code to do so, nor are you presumably interested in 
stopping people from different regions from viewing your DVD. (I say 
'you' and obviously mean the original poster here Dan, not you as such!)


Of course, I am a notorious chump and may have grasped the wrong end of 
the stick, if not the wrong stick entirely!


Sean

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Re: [Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Robert Bronsdon]

This is a tricky one. As such "Konsole" doesn't know anything about the  
programs you have installed. It's the shell that understands what programs  
are there.


I know I often have to wait a few minutes or get the command exactly right  
the first time (without tab completion) if I have recently installed a  
program. I am assuming that the shell (zsh in this case) hasn't looked in  
$PATH to find binaries as yet.


As far as piddling about with regions. This (clearly) has nothing to do  
with Linux. Actually if the politics that drives F/OSS were in more  
general acceptance the whole "region encoding" would likely be a null.


Shame


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Re: [Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Simon O'Riordan]

I was manufacturing some Region 1 Wedding DVDs from a cousin's do
recently, for the USA branch of the family.
I think they would be more likely to be big screen TV people rather than
Linux PC viewers :)
Incidentally, the only other slight trouble I had was shoving the ISO
over the ether to the Mepis box; it timed out, but at the second attempt
with more generous Mepis networking criteria, it went fine.
All these essential tweaks make me wonder just how many Linux distros
give a damn about the consumer-grade user. Ubuntu for one, but who else?
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 19:59 +0100, Dan Dart wrote:
> Just fri, libdvdcss is region-free. You don't need to set a region
> when watching DVDs with it.
> If I got the right end of the stick...
> 
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Re: [Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Dan Dart]

Just fri, libdvdcss is region-free. You don't need to set a region
when watching DVDs with it.
If I got the right end of the stick...

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Re: [Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Hi Ralph,
did
 su ls -l /usr/sbin/ | grep regionset
and this did indeed confirm the existence of regionset in that
directory(as decreed by the regionset project owners).
Then it was a simple matter of running regionset, by ensuring that you
DO NOT go in as root.
All you need is /usr/sbin/regionset
Apparently my drive is still happily set to Region 1(as it should be).
Thanks for the help.
Maybe this reply will go up on the search results and help out eh?
Simono
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 18:48 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> 
> > installed on Mepis regionset application from synaptic.  Konsole
> > doesn't have a clue about it.  How do I actually get it to run?
> 
> Do
> 
> dpkg -L regionset
> 
> and inspect the output for clues.  In particular, man pages and commands
> in
> 
> echo /{,usr/}{s,}bin
> 
> Cheers,
> Ralph.
> 
> 
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Re: [Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Simon,

> installed on Mepis regionset application from synaptic.  Konsole
> doesn't have a clue about it.  How do I actually get it to run?

Do

dpkg -L regionset

and inspect the output for clues.  In particular, man pages and commands
in

echo /{,usr/}{s,}bin

Cheers,
Ralph.


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[Dorset] Simple? MEPIS and Regionset.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Hi all,
installed on Mepis regionset application from synaptic.
Konsole doesn't have a clue about it.
How do I actually get it to run?
Simono


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Sweet.
Pugwash and I were both gifted iPod Shuffles when we worked at Dek.
They were hacked within a couple of hours and now I use mine as a drag
and drop for the car(cassette conversion).
About the only one that simply can't be hacked(AFAIK)is the 'Touch'.
Simono 
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 12:44 +0100, Sean Gibbins wrote:
> On 29/08/10 11:58, Simon O'Riordan wrote:
> > Hey Sean, what's the trick?
> > I'd love to know how she made it work.
> > I'm not using VirtualBox OSE by the way, I'm using proprietary with all
> > the extensions.
> >
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> No trick as I recall, although we had to go with the proprietary release 
> for the USB connectivity. Otherwise, it was a straight install onto 
> regular Ubuntu (specifically Karmic and Lucid) on her Acer 5735z laptop, 
> followed by WinXP (plus a gazillion updates of course) and then iTunes. 
> We have shared her Music folder on Ubuntu, and iTunes uses that to sync 
> the music, IIRC. I am guessing the lack of complaints means that it is 
> still working, but I'll ask and report back when Ellie gets home from 
> work later.
> 
> Me, I won't touch iPods precisely because of all this faffing, 
> preferring the faff that comes with Cowon iAudio devices instead! ;-)
> 
> I currently have an iAudio X5L and its intended replacement, a D2+, both 
> running Rockbox instead of the slightly shoddy Cowon firmware, which, 
> despite its professed support for Linux and Mac OS, struggles to display 
> oggs and flacs in the correct order. As well as the simple drag 'n' drop 
> support I prefer to load up files, I personally think the Cowons sound 
> better too.
> 
> Sean
> 



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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Sean Gibbins]

On 29/08/10 11:58, Simon O'Riordan wrote:

Hey Sean, what's the trick?
I'd love to know how she made it work.
I'm not using VirtualBox OSE by the way, I'm using proprietary with all
the extensions.
   


Hi Simon,

No trick as I recall, although we had to go with the proprietary release 
for the USB connectivity. Otherwise, it was a straight install onto 
regular Ubuntu (specifically Karmic and Lucid) on her Acer 5735z laptop, 
followed by WinXP (plus a gazillion updates of course) and then iTunes. 
We have shared her Music folder on Ubuntu, and iTunes uses that to sync 
the music, IIRC. I am guessing the lack of complaints means that it is 
still working, but I'll ask and report back when Ellie gets home from 
work later.


Me, I won't touch iPods precisely because of all this faffing, 
preferring the faff that comes with Cowon iAudio devices instead! ;-)


I currently have an iAudio X5L and its intended replacement, a D2+, both 
running Rockbox instead of the slightly shoddy Cowon firmware, which, 
despite its professed support for Linux and Mac OS, struggles to display 
oggs and flacs in the correct order. As well as the simple drag 'n' drop 
support I prefer to load up files, I personally think the Cowons sound 
better too.


Sean

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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Just tried again. No. It's definitely not having it. Unhandled Win32
exception on startup(like Apple never heard of exception-safety) and
then the main window finally opens.
You can click around the menu a bit. When you try to connect to the
store, it kills the app, and the machine.
What a load of rubbish.
Simono
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:58 +0100, Simon O'Riordan wrote:
> Hey Sean, what's the trick?
> I'd love to know how she made it work.
> I'm not using VirtualBox OSE by the way, I'm using proprietary with all
> the extensions.
> Simono
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:50 +0100, Sean Gibbins wrote:
> > On 29/08/10 11:40, Simon O'Riordan wrote:
> > > Incidentally, iTunes won't install on a virtual machine, so maybe it is
> > > another example?
> > >
> > 
> > Not true: my daughter runs iTunes in a VirtualBox VM (Windows XP) on Ubuntu.
> > 
> > Sean
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Hey Sean, what's the trick?
I'd love to know how she made it work.
I'm not using VirtualBox OSE by the way, I'm using proprietary with all
the extensions.
Simono
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:50 +0100, Sean Gibbins wrote:
> On 29/08/10 11:40, Simon O'Riordan wrote:
> > Incidentally, iTunes won't install on a virtual machine, so maybe it is
> > another example?
> >
> 
> Not true: my daughter runs iTunes in a VirtualBox VM (Windows XP) on Ubuntu.
> 
> Sean
> 



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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Sean Gibbins]

On 29/08/10 11:40, Simon O'Riordan wrote:

Incidentally, iTunes won't install on a virtual machine, so maybe it is
another example?
   


Not true: my daughter runs iTunes in a VirtualBox VM (Windows XP) on Ubuntu.

Sean

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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Windows XP virtual installed it, but afterwards it just wouldn't start.
Seemed to have a complete breakdown no matter how I tried.
But on a pure XP box it worked; of course, the service itself was so
disappointing I removed it.
If only Ubuntu One did Classical.
Simono
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:43 +0100, Robert Bronsdon wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:40:22 +0100, Simon O'Riordan  
>  wrote:
> 
> > iTunes won't install on a virtual machine
> 
> Are you able to cite that at all?
> 
> I am aware it is not easy to mount the iPod into iTunes within a Virtual  
> Machine but I've never heard of iTunes not installing at all.
> 



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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Simon,

> Incidentally, iTunes won't install on a virtual machine, so maybe it is
> another example?

I don't think so.  I don't run VMs myself, but I assume they think
they've a whole hard disk, MBR and all, so writing between the MBR and
the first partition would still work.

Cheers,
Ralph.


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Robert Bronsdon]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:40:22 +0100, Simon O'Riordan  
 wrote:



iTunes won't install on a virtual machine


Are you able to cite that at all?

I am aware it is not easy to mount the iPod into iTunes within a Virtual  
Machine but I've never heard of iTunes not installing at all.


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:34 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:

> No.  They're just assuming Windows-only systems.
This is one reason I don't do dual boot. I prefer virtualisation.
Incidentally, iTunes won't install on a virtual machine, so maybe it is
another example?
Simono
> 
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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Simon,

> > > > > 
> > > > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2010/08/28
> > > 
> > > Sounds perfectly possible.  Unless, after moving to Grub 2, you
> > > install in Windows one of these errant programs, you'd not see the
> > > problem.
> >
> > Are you seriously suggesting that a Windows Application will install
> > outside the Windows partition, outside the Windows boot partition
> > and over Grub?

Yes.  Reading the article makes that clear, I thought, and also why it
would attempt to do so.

> > It sounds very unlikely.

It's not common.  If it was it wouldn't work well for its intended
purpose because one application would trample the protection of another.
But it appears to be happening.

> > Wouldn't that destroy the boot sector of a pure Windows system
> > anyway?

No, because, as the article makes clear, we're not talking about the the
Master Boot Record, which is the first 512 bytes of the hard disc, we're
talking about the gap between the end of that and the start of the first
partition.  They historically don't butt up.  Grub 1 fitted its
1.5-stage code here, Grub 2 also uses it.

> > Any examples of these applications?

Yes, see the bug reports linked from the article.  Be sure to click the
"view all comments" at the end of the Ubuntu one.

> Ah, now I think I understand. Sloppy engineering. Persistent
> registration information might require storage of information external
> to the partitions.  Still not convinced however. Seems as if there are
> a lot of alternatives to screwing with Grub.

Let's say the application wants to store something the user cannot
readily spot, or revert, so it knows it has been "trialled" before and
cannot be again.  Where else would you suggest?

> Maybe it is deliberate?

No.  They're just assuming Windows-only systems.

Cheers,
Ralph.


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:07 +0100, Robert Bronsdon wrote about the Sony
rootkit.
Sony Rootkit - "This was discovered and publicly revealed by Mark
Russinovich on the Sysinternals blog. Other operating systems were not
affected."
Phew.
The only protected CD I have is the last Duran Duran album. I don't
believe I have an XP installation that old now.
Besides I ripped it and put it away years ago. I'm all-digital now.
Simono
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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Robert Bronsdon]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:20:50 +0100, Simon O'Riordan  
 wrote:



Root kits from DVD? Did they spread to Linux boxes too?


Nope - When you first inseted the CD (autorun enabled) or when you tried  
to play the CD security vulnerabilities in place would install a root-kit  
to the system. Once in place a user is "unable" to rip/copy the CD as the  
root-kit blocks this from happening.


Luckly it wouldn't work on other systems. Not even OS X.


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:07 +0100, Robert Bronsdon wrote:

> It's being suggested that some application developers will go to any  
> lengths to provide "anti-piracy" features. If its a matter of knowing 'x'  
> sector on a disk "should" always be blank/unused. Then do people feel it  
> unnecessary to write to it to protect their program.
> 
> It wouldn't kill the windows boot sector if its known that block is not in  
> use.
Sounds like wonderful Windows world strikes again(Nobody needs nuthin but 
Windows)

> You could argue it would be absurd for a compact disk to install a  
> root-kit just so it can be played on a PC. It's been seen before though  
> 
> 
> > Any examples of these applications?
> 
> Agreed though - this whole story reeks of conspiracy and so without  
> applications its difficult to verify.
> 
Root kits from DVD? Did they spread to Linux boxes too?


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Ah, now I think I understand. Sloppy engineering. Persistent
registration information might require storage of information external
to the partitions.
Still not convinced however. Seems as if there are a lot of alternatives
to screwing with Grub.
Maybe it is deliberate?
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:00 +0100, Simon O'Riordan wrote:
> Are you seriously suggesting that a Windows Application will install
> outside the Windows partition, outside the Windows boot partition and
> over Grub? It sounds very unlikely. Wouldn't that destroy the boot
> sector of a pure Windows system anyway?
> Any examples of these applications?
> Simono
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 10:48 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> > 
> > > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2010/08/28
> > > 
> > > Interesting. I have been dual boot Kubuntu and XP professional from
> > > the start, and upgraded to Grub 2 at 9.10(?). I have never had any
> > > problems.
> > 
> > Sounds perfectly possible.  Unless, after moving to Grub 2, you install
> > in Windows one of these errant programs, you'd not see the problem.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ralph.
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Robert Bronsdon]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:00:48 +0100, Simon O'Riordan  
 wrote:



Are you seriously suggesting that a Windows Application will install
outside the Windows partition, outside the Windows boot partition and
over Grub? It sounds very unlikely. Wouldn't that destroy the boot
sector of a pure Windows system anyway?


It's being suggested that some application developers will go to any  
lengths to provide "anti-piracy" features. If its a matter of knowing 'x'  
sector on a disk "should" always be blank/unused. Then do people feel it  
unnecessary to write to it to protect their program.


It wouldn't kill the windows boot sector if its known that block is not in  
use.


You could argue it would be absurd for a compact disk to install a  
root-kit just so it can be played on a PC. It's been seen before though  




Any examples of these applications?


Agreed though - this whole story reeks of conspiracy and so without  
applications its difficult to verify.


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Simon O'Riordan]

Are you seriously suggesting that a Windows Application will install
outside the Windows partition, outside the Windows boot partition and
over Grub? It sounds very unlikely. Wouldn't that destroy the boot
sector of a pure Windows system anyway?
Any examples of these applications?
Simono
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 10:48 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2010/08/28
> > 
> > Interesting. I have been dual boot Kubuntu and XP professional from
> > the start, and upgraded to Grub 2 at 9.10(?). I have never had any
> > problems.
> 
> Sounds perfectly possible.  Unless, after moving to Grub 2, you install
> in Windows one of these errant programs, you'd not see the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ralph.
> 
> 
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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Peter,

> > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2010/08/28
> 
> Interesting. I have been dual boot Kubuntu and XP professional from
> the start, and upgraded to Grub 2 at 9.10(?). I have never had any
> problems.

Sounds perfectly possible.  Unless, after moving to Grub 2, you install
in Windows one of these errant programs, you'd not see the problem.

Cheers,
Ralph.


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Re: [Dorset] Windows applications making GRUB 2 unbootable.

[Peter Merchant]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 01:18 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Stalwart Colin Watson has a brief article explaining the problem with
> Grub 2 on a dual-boot Windows/Linux system.  It seems some Windows'
> applications assume they can use the first bit of the disk for their
> protection schemes, trampling Grub 2 in the process.  (Grub 1 was
> smaller.)  He's looking for samples where it happens to try and work
> around the issue.  I thought it may be of interest, and would widen his
> search.
> 
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2010/08/28
> 
> Cheers,
> Ralph

Interesting. I have been dual boot Kubuntu and XP professional from the
start, and upgraded to Grub 2 at 9.10(?). I have never had any problems.

Peter


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