Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Friday, February 18, 2011 07:52:30 am Keith Edmunds wrote: On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 21:59:22 +, andy.pater...@ntlworld.com said: Then Nokia puts a spoke in the works and effectively indicates that continuing learning QT will be a waste of t!me I think you're extrapolating considerably more than was announced. I very much doubt Qt is going to disappear. -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue I hope you are right Keith - I really hope you are right! Andy -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Friday, February 18, 2011 08:43:43 am Ralph Corderoy wrote: Hi Andrew, After spending days(!) fscking and trying to decode all kinds of stuff I stepped back and saw the light - I MUST have a duff disk. `smartctl -a /dev/sda' can be useful to get the drive's own stats on how things are going. (Does fsck(8) still only check a filesystem's metadata?) smartctl(8) can, I think, be used to get the drive to do some non-destructive tests on all sectors. May be something to try now you've nothing to risk losing from them, although I don't know how well the SMART commands work through non-[PS]ATA interfaces. I therefore went out and replaced BOTH disks (which were Hitachi Desktar 200GB IDE units which on extracting them I find are dated 2005 (so fair enough!). Post IBM's Deathstar then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Deathstar ;-) The green credentials of the new disks will mean they will power down after (20? secs) of inactivity and take too long to power up causing linux Raid to fail a disk and detach it. !!! hdparm(8) has options, e.g -S (capital), to control aspects like idle spin-down time; perhaps that can help. I didn't realise any modern drives took too long to spin up though. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue Hi Ralph, I recall I did try probing the disk with smartctl before I replaced it, but the counts it returned said it was all good (i.e. all fail caounts were zero). Interestingly if I now try to run smartctl on the old disk (connected by my external IDE/USB connector) - appearing as /dev/sde, I get : -- smartctl -a /dev/sde smartctl 5.40 2010-10-16 r3189 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net /dev/sde: Unsupported USB bridge [0x04cf:0x8818 (0xb008)] Smartctl: please specify device type with the -d option. Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary -- Which I have to say - is a understandable but a disappointment! You are prob right about spin-up (It could be that the notes I came across on an internet search were not that accurate). I understood that Green drives try to hide the fact that they are spun- down (presumably with huge buffers?) and even (according to what I have read) dont log their spin-downs for things like smartctl to get at - i have seen a few angry comments about that. What kind of spin-up times do you think are normal for a modern hard-drive then? Andy -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
Hi Andrew,
What kind of spin-up times do you think are normal for a modern
hard-drive then?
Second or two? Purely from very limited experience. Have just timed
this very old 20GB PATA drive.
$ foo() { date +%S.%N; }
$ sudo true; foo; sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb $N; foo
31.142709016
35.482519853
$ e 35.482519853 - 31.142709016
4.339810837
$
So that's quite a bit slower.
There are a few SMART stats with spin in their name, including apparent
spin up time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.#Known_ATA_S.M.A.R.T._attributes
Cheers,
Ralph.
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Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Friday, February 18, 2011 12:39:37 pm Ralph Corderoy wrote:
Hi Andrew,
What kind of spin-up times do you think are normal for a modern
hard-drive then?
Second or two? Purely from very limited experience. Have just timed
this very old 20GB PATA drive.
$ foo() { date +%S.%N; }
$ sudo true; foo; sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb $N; foo
31.142709016
35.482519853
$ e 35.482519853 - 31.142709016
4.339810837
$
So that's quite a bit slower.
There are a few SMART stats with spin in their name, including apparent
spin up time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.#Known_ATA_S.M.A.R.T._attributes
Cheers,
Ralph.
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Hi Ralph,
this is what made me raise an eyeborw:
From the Western Digital website:
Western Digital manufactures desktop edition hard drives and RAID Edition hard
drives. Each type of hard drive is designed to work specifically in either a
desktop computer environment or a demanding enterprise environment.
If you install and use a desktop edition hard drive connected to a RAID
controller, the drive may not work correctly unless jointly qualified by an
enterprise OEM. This is caused by the normal error recovery procedure that a
desktop edition hard drive uses.
When an error is found on a desktop edition hard drive, the drive will enter
into a deep recovery cycle to attempt to repair the error, recover the data
from the problematic area, and then reallocate a dedicated area to replace the
problematic area. This process can take up to 2 minutes depending on the
severity of the issue. Most RAID controllers allow a very short amount of time
for a hard drive to recover from an error. If a hard drive takes too long to
complete this process, the drive will be dropped from the RAID array. Most
RAID controllers allow from 7 to 15 seconds for error recovery before dropping
a hard drive from an array. Western Digital does not recommend installing
desktop edition hard drives in an enterprise environment (on a RAID
controller).
Western Digital RAID edition hard drives have a feature called TLER (Time
Limited Error Recovery) which stops the hard drive from entering into a deep
recovery cycle. The hard drive will only spend 7 seconds to attempt to
recover. This means that the hard drive will not be dropped from a RAID array.
Though TLER is designed for RAID environments, it is fully compatible and will
not be detrimental when used in non-RAID environments.
My new drives are labelled Desktop Drives.
However as I say, I have had no problems so far maybe my next electricity
bill will be tiny ;)
Regards
Andy
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Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Friday, February 18, 2011 12:39:37 pm Ralph Corderoy wrote:
Hi Andrew,
What kind of spin-up times do you think are normal for a modern
hard-drive then?
Second or two? Purely from very limited experience. Have just timed
this very old 20GB PATA drive.
$ foo() { date +%S.%N; }
$ sudo true; foo; sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb $N; foo
31.142709016
35.482519853
$ e 35.482519853 - 31.142709016
4.339810837
$
So that's quite a bit slower.
There are a few SMART stats with spin in their name, including apparent
spin up time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.#Known_ATA_S.M.A.R.T._attributes
Cheers,
Ralph.
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Hi again Ralph,
I have found :
http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~greg/projects/erc/
Which talks about a solution (back in 2009 - a patch to smartctl).
I assumed ;) the patch is included in the FC14 smartctl and tried it :
# smartctl -d sat -l scterc /dev/sdb
smartctl 5.40 2010-10-16 r3189 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
SCT Error Recovery Control:
Read: Disabled
Write: Disabled
# smartctl -l scterc,70,70 /dev/sdc
smartctl 5.40 2010-10-16 r3189 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
SCT Error Recovery Control:
Read: 70 (7.0 seconds)
Write: 70 (7.0 seconds)
-
# smartctl -d sat -l scterc /dev/sdb
smartctl 5.40 2010-10-16 r3189 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
SCT Error Recovery Control:
Read: 70 (7.0 seconds)
Write: 70 (7.0 seconds)
-
So, I will now wait see what haappens.
Regards
Andy
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Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On 18 February 2011 14:09, Andrew Reid Paterson andy.pater...@ntlworld.com wrote: So, I will now wait see what haappens. those settings (probably) won't survive a reboot, you might want to add a small script to your system start. -- regards, jr. time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Friday, February 18, 2011 02:27:43 pm jr wrote: On 18 February 2011 14:09, Andrew Reid Paterson andy.pater...@ntlworld.com wrote: So, I will now wait see what haappens. those settings (probably) won't survive a reboot, you might want to add a small script to your system start. Funny you should say that! - I just discovered that and added them to my rc.local Thanks Andy -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:39:37 +, ra...@inputplus.co.uk said:
$ foo() { date +%S.%N; }
$ sudo true; foo; sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb $N; foo
31.142709016
35.482519853
$ e 35.482519853 - 31.142709016
4.339810837
$
Next time:
$ time sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb
Much easier!
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Re: [Dorset] disk problems
Hi Keith, $ sudo true; foo; sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb $N; foo 31.142709016 35.482519853 Next time: $ time sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb Much easier! Easier, true, but I wanted more accuracy that /usr/bin/time or bash's time would give. :-) Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 18:55:27 +, ra...@inputplus.co.uk said: Easier, true, but I wanted more accuracy that /usr/bin/time or bash's time would give. :-) Bash's 'time' command resolves to thousandths of a second. I would imagine that saccadic suppression would make more accurate measurement meaningless! -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
Hi Andrew, The kernel log shows (e.g): [ 7551.160178] ata10.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x6 Is this a bug covering your problem? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=549981 Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 21:59:22 +, andy.pater...@ntlworld.com said: Then Nokia puts a spoke in the works and effectively indicates that continuing learning QT will be a waste of t!me I think you're extrapolating considerably more than was announced. I very much doubt Qt is going to disappear. -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] disk problems
Given that you are getting (apparently) some kind of disk corruption, and given that disk buffers are stored in memory prior to be flushed to disk, I'd start by running (ideally overnight) Memtest86+ and see if that, er, flushes out any errors. Keith -- Next meeting: Blandford Forum, Wednesday 2011-03-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
