Re: email location - files or sql

[Robert Moskowitz]

Wondered about that.  Other reasons not to go with iRedMail.

On 2/23/22 21:01, Lucas Rolff wrote:
iRedMail does not store emails in a database. It stores account 
information in a database. Emails are stored on the filesystem.


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*From:* dovecot  on behalf of Robert 
Moskowitz 

*Sent:* Thursday, February 24, 2022 9:48:11 AM
*To:* dovecot@dovecot.org 
*Subject:* Re: email location - files or sql


On 2/23/22 19:12, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> * Robert Moskowitz:
>
>> What I am seeing is that many of the packages seem to roll the
>> messages into some SQL database.
> Do they?

Packages like iRedMail list email stored in the database of your
choice.  Of course this is just their web blurb, and I have yet to find
one of these that suit my needs.  More and more, I am looking at rolling
my own again.  Challenge has always been integrating the anti-virus.
Clamav has been quite the challenge.

>> My Dovecot setup uses the /home/vmail/doman/../{cur,new,etc} tree
>> structure.
> That's the classic Maildir format. Widely supported, works fine if file
> system nodes are not a scarce commodity. Dovecot supports other formats
> (see https://doc.dovecot.org/admin_manual/mailbox_formats/) as well, but
> I still use Maildir because it is required by Notmuch, which is my
> software of choice for handling all my mailing list subscriptions.

I liked Maildir at the time and still do.  Only a 1,000+ emails a day.
My wife keeps a lot (10K messages) on the server, I keep all of my
various boxes on the server small.  So do my other users.

> Personally, I would not use a relational database as a mail store unless
> specifically required by the mail system of your choice. Email is not
> organised in a way that benefits from a RDB.

I was there for the beginning of RDB.  Almost had NOMAD shoved down my
throat (UNIVAC)  and did work with RIM (BCS) then R:Base. Was gamma
release site of DB2, where we worked out how to do a UNION which was not
supported in the original design.  I have seen email systems that stuff
the messages into RDB and really wonder if the hammer really fits.



>
>> Is there some nice packed mailserver I can drop on a Centos-arm server
>> that has Dovecot under the covers and I can easily rsync my current
>> mail store to it?
> As far as migrating content is concerned, you're better off using some
> form of IMAP synchronisation. This method is not dependent on the
> underlying mail store format, and it preserves the IMAP flags for your
> existing messages.

I did see that mentioned once, and have down to research it.  Thanks for
the pointer.

Re: email location - files or sql

[Lucas Rolff]

iRedMail does not store emails in a database. It stores account information in 
a database. Emails are stored on the filesystem.

Get Outlook for iOS

From: dovecot  on behalf of Robert Moskowitz 

Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 9:48:11 AM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org 
Subject: Re: email location - files or sql



On 2/23/22 19:12, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> * Robert Moskowitz:
>
>> What I am seeing is that many of the packages seem to roll the
>> messages into some SQL database.
> Do they?

Packages like iRedMail list email stored in the database of your
choice.  Of course this is just their web blurb, and I have yet to find
one of these that suit my needs.  More and more, I am looking at rolling
my own again.  Challenge has always been integrating the anti-virus.
Clamav has been quite the challenge.

>> My Dovecot setup uses the /home/vmail/doman/../{cur,new,etc} tree
>> structure.
> That's the classic Maildir format. Widely supported, works fine if file
> system nodes are not a scarce commodity. Dovecot supports other formats
> (see https://doc.dovecot.org/admin_manual/mailbox_formats/) as well, but
> I still use Maildir because it is required by Notmuch, which is my
> software of choice for handling all my mailing list subscriptions.

I liked Maildir at the time and still do.  Only a 1,000+ emails a day.
My wife keeps a lot (10K messages) on the server, I keep all of my
various boxes on the server small.  So do my other users.

> Personally, I would not use a relational database as a mail store unless
> specifically required by the mail system of your choice. Email is not
> organised in a way that benefits from a RDB.

I was there for the beginning of RDB.  Almost had NOMAD shoved down my
throat (UNIVAC)  and did work with RIM (BCS) then R:Base.  Was gamma
release site of DB2, where we worked out how to do a UNION which was not
supported in the original design.  I have seen email systems that stuff
the messages into RDB and really wonder if the hammer really fits.



>
>> Is there some nice packed mailserver I can drop on a Centos-arm server
>> that has Dovecot under the covers and I can easily rsync my current
>> mail store to it?
> As far as migrating content is concerned, you're better off using some
> form of IMAP synchronisation. This method is not dependent on the
> underlying mail store format, and it preserves the IMAP flags for your
> existing messages.

I did see that mentioned once, and have down to research it.  Thanks for
the pointer.

Re: email location - files or sql

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 2/23/22 19:12, Ralph Seichter wrote:

* Robert Moskowitz:


What I am seeing is that many of the packages seem to roll the
messages into some SQL database.

Do they?


Packages like iRedMail list email stored in the database of your 
choice.  Of course this is just their web blurb, and I have yet to find 
one of these that suit my needs.  More and more, I am looking at rolling 
my own again.  Challenge has always been integrating the anti-virus.  
Clamav has been quite the challenge.



My Dovecot setup uses the /home/vmail/doman/../{cur,new,etc} tree
structure.

That's the classic Maildir format. Widely supported, works fine if file
system nodes are not a scarce commodity. Dovecot supports other formats
(see https://doc.dovecot.org/admin_manual/mailbox_formats/) as well, but
I still use Maildir because it is required by Notmuch, which is my
software of choice for handling all my mailing list subscriptions.


I liked Maildir at the time and still do.  Only a 1,000+ emails a day.  
My wife keeps a lot (10K messages) on the server, I keep all of my 
various boxes on the server small.  So do my other users.



Personally, I would not use a relational database as a mail store unless
specifically required by the mail system of your choice. Email is not
organised in a way that benefits from a RDB.


I was there for the beginning of RDB.  Almost had NOMAD shoved down my 
throat (UNIVAC)  and did work with RIM (BCS) then R:Base.  Was gamma 
release site of DB2, where we worked out how to do a UNION which was not 
supported in the original design.  I have seen email systems that stuff 
the messages into RDB and really wonder if the hammer really fits.







Is there some nice packed mailserver I can drop on a Centos-arm server
that has Dovecot under the covers and I can easily rsync my current
mail store to it?

As far as migrating content is concerned, you're better off using some
form of IMAP synchronisation. This method is not dependent on the
underlying mail store format, and it preserves the IMAP flags for your
existing messages.


I did see that mentioned once, and have down to research it.  Thanks for 
the pointer.

Re: email location - files or sql

[Ralph Seichter]

* Robert Moskowitz:

> What I am seeing is that many of the packages seem to roll the
> messages into some SQL database.

Do they?

> My Dovecot setup uses the /home/vmail/doman/../{cur,new,etc} tree
> structure.

That's the classic Maildir format. Widely supported, works fine if file
system nodes are not a scarce commodity. Dovecot supports other formats
(see https://doc.dovecot.org/admin_manual/mailbox_formats/) as well, but
I still use Maildir because it is required by Notmuch, which is my
software of choice for handling all my mailing list subscriptions.

Personally, I would not use a relational database as a mail store unless
specifically required by the mail system of your choice. Email is not
organised in a way that benefits from a RDB.

> Is there some nice packed mailserver I can drop on a Centos-arm server
> that has Dovecot under the covers and I can easily rsync my current
> mail store to it?

As far as migrating content is concerned, you're better off using some
form of IMAP synchronisation. This method is not dependent on the
underlying mail store format, and it preserves the IMAP flags for your
existing messages.

-Ralph