Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Le 11 févr. 2013 à 02:16, Timo Sirainen a écrit : [...] I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. Hello Timo, If I've correctly understood, the idea is to accept an additional message provided there is some free space AND the size of that message additional doesn't exceed above last_extra. An additional message, even if over-quota strictly speaking, might thus be tolerated. Or the idea of an absolute quota may thus come with some tolerance. quota_tolerance? Axel
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Mon, 2013-02-11 at 02:43 +0100, Sven Hartge wrote: I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. quota_grace_extra Sounds good signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 2013-02-10 8:43 PM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote: quota_grace_extra Smaller is better... why not just quota_grace -- Best regards, Charles
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 11.2.2013, at 4.38, Daniel Parthey daniel.part...@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de wrote: Sven Hartge wrote: Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. quota_surplus I like this. But my English isn't good enough to know if that word really fits it? The Finnish translation looks pretty close I think.. Of course, if I don't know that word so well, how many other non-English admins will know what it means?.. I guess it's mostly related to some money things.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 2013-02-11 10:38 AM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: On 11.2.2013, at 4.38, Daniel Parthey daniel.part...@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de wrote: Sven Hartge wrote: Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. quota_surplus I like this. But my English isn't good enough to know if that word really fits it? The Finnish translation looks pretty close I think.. Of course, if I don't know that word so well, how many other non-English admins will know what it means?.. I guess it's mostly related to some money things. It does fit it, but I thought of on I like better... quote_trigger -- Best regards, Charles
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 11.02.2013, at 16:38, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: On 11.2.2013, at 4.38, Daniel Parthey daniel.part...@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de wrote: Sven Hartge wrote: Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. quota_surplus I like this. But my English isn't good enough to know if that word really fits it? It does, but what about: quota_final_add_on Regards, Michael
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Monday 11 February 2013 17:19:06 Michael Grimm wrote: Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. quota_surplus I like this. But my English isn't good enough to know if that word really fits it? It does, but what about: quota_final_add_on What means surplus? Why not simplify things and calll it - quota_mailplus - quota_plusmail - quota_oneplus - quota_plusone Tobias Hachmer
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 06:56:43AM -0500, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2013-02-10 8:43 PM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote: quota_grace_extra Smaller is better... why not just quota_grace Sounds good for me. In particular the similarity to the disk quotas grace period is blatant. Dennis
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 02/10/2013 05:16 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 22:39 +0200, Timo Sirainen wrote:
Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that is over 1MB,
Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected probably for days. So user
might not even realize that they didn't receive one of the mails. Also having a user
almost over quota is a rather strange state I think.
So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it
brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as
much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?).
Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could
make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior
there's really no point in adding the option.
How about this, added to hg:
plugin {
# LDA/LMTP allows saving the last mail to bring user from under quota to
# over quota, if the quota doesn't grow too high. Default is to allow as
# long as quota will stay under 10% above the limit. Also allowed e.g. 10M.
#quota_last_extra = 10%%
}
Each quota root has its own limit, so if using multiple quota roots
(pretty rare) you'd have to set also quota2_last_extra, etc.
I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra..
quota_size_elasticity
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Am 2013-02-11 17:44, schrieb Dennis Guhl: On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 06:56:43AM -0500, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2013-02-10 8:43 PM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote: quota_grace Sounds good for me. In particular the similarity to the disk quotas grace period is blatant. Not a native english speaker, but quota_grace is very concise and resonates in a way, that makes it easily rememberable: the quota is not enforced in strictness, but handled gracefully. The server for once turns a blind eye to the quota. Documentation: quota_grace - specify an amount in units that a single incoming message may exceed the quota without being rejected. Useful in situations, where ... *Alternatively* it could also be a binary option: Only start enforcing the quota after the fact, when it is already exceeded. -- peter
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 2013-02-11 5:04 PM, Hungerburg pc...@myzel.net wrote: Am 2013-02-11 17:44, schrieb Dennis Guhl: On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 06:56:43AM -0500, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2013-02-10 8:43 PM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote: quota_grace Sounds good for me. In particular the similarity to the disk quotas grace period is blatant. Not a native english speaker, but quota_grace is very concise and resonates in a way, that makes it easily rememberable: the quota is not enforced in strictness, but handled gracefully. The server for once turns a blind eye to the quota. Documentation: quota_grace - specify an amount in units that a single incoming message may exceed the quota without being rejected. Useful in situations, where ... *Alternatively* it could also be a binary option: Only start enforcing the quota after the fact, when it is already exceeded. True, most systems have limits on the size of an email they will accept, which in and of itself would serve as the 'quota_grace' amount...
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 22:39 +0200, Timo Sirainen wrote:
Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that
is over 1MB, Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected
probably for days. So user might not even realize that they didn't receive
one of the mails. Also having a user almost over quota is a rather strange
state I think.
So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it
brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as
much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?).
Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could
make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior
there's really no point in adding the option.
How about this, added to hg:
plugin {
# LDA/LMTP allows saving the last mail to bring user from under quota to
# over quota, if the quota doesn't grow too high. Default is to allow as
# long as quota will stay under 10% above the limit. Also allowed e.g. 10M.
#quota_last_extra = 10%%
}
Each quota root has its own limit, so if using multiple quota roots
(pretty rare) you'd have to set also quota2_last_extra, etc.
I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra..
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote:
How about this, added to hg:
plugin {
# LDA/LMTP allows saving the last mail to bring user from under quota to
# over quota, if the quota doesn't grow too high. Default is to allow as
# long as quota will stay under 10% above the limit. Also allowed e.g. 10M.
#quota_last_extra = 10%%
}
Each quota root has its own limit, so if using multiple quota roots
(pretty rare) you'd have to set also quota2_last_extra, etc.
I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra..
quota_grace_extra
quota_grace_limit
quota_over_quota
quota_overflow
Grüße,
Sven.
--
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Sven Hartge wrote: Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: I wonder if there's a better name for this than last_extra.. quota_surplus Regards Daniel -- https://plus.google.com/103021802792276734820
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On 29.10.2012 21:39, Timo Sirainen wrote: So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?). Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior there's really no point in adding the option. Great idea. This makes being over quota a stable state and makes it easier for users to understand their problem. Regards Christian
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Timo Sirainen wrote: Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that is over 1MB, Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected probably for days. So user might not even realize that they didn't receive one of the mails. Also having a user almost over quota is a rather strange state I think. So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?). Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior there's really no point in adding the option. This will finally make possible to reject RCPT TO: before the message size is known instead of accepting the message and sending a bounce later (bouncing SPAM is not good). -- Talex Spółka Akcyjna z siedzibą w Poznaniu adres: ul. Karpia 27d, 61-619 Poznań NIP 782-00-21-045 zarejestrowana w Sądzie Rejonowym Poznań – Nowe Miasto i Wilda w Poznaniu VIII Wydział Gospodarczy - KRS pod nr 48779 kapitał zakładowy: 3.000.092,00 PLN (w całości wpłacony) Uwaga: Niniejsza wiadomość, w szczególności jej treść oraz załączniki, może być poufna. W przypadku, gdy nie jest Pan/Pani zamierzonym jej adresatem, informujemy, że wszelkie rozpowszechnianie, dystrybucja lub powielanie powyższej wiadomości jest zabronione. Jednocześnie prosimy o powiadomienie nadawcy oraz niezwłoczne usunięcie powyższej wiadomości wraz z załącznikami. Dziękujemy, Talex S.A. w Poznaniu. Confidentiality Notice: This email, particularly its content and any attached files, may be confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution and reproduction of this message is prohibited. In this case please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message and any attachments. Thank you, Talex S.A., Poznan.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
* Jan-Frode Myklebust janfr...@tanso.net: +1 Better to be lenient, than to confuse users by accepting some but not other messages. Amen to that! +1 -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Sounds like a reasonable idea, but one has to keep in mind that file system quotas never work that way. So that change would make quota=fs behave differently from the rest. So it should at least be configurable, I think.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Oct 30, 2012 5:43 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de wrote: * Jan-Frode Myklebust janfr...@tanso.net: +1 Better to be lenient, than to confuse users by accepting some but not other messages. Amen to that! +1 Surely the answer is that as soon as any mail is rejected an over-quota message is injected? That way, the quota remains as it currently is, but the user will a) be aware that he's over or nearly over quota, b) that a mail was rejected for being too big (if you inject the right over-quota message). Simon
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:39:51PM +0200, Timo Sirainen wrote: Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that is over 1MB, Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected probably for days. So user might not even realize that they didn't receive one of the mails. Also having a user almost over quota is a rather strange state I think. So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?). Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior there's really no point in adding the option. I think the thing to do is to adjust the admin's thinking about it. Yes, if the current mailstore is under quota, by all means, you should accept the next email up to the maximum size the server accepts. No exception, just take it. You control $quota and $maxMsg. Set your quota with that in mind, where $(($quota - 1 + $maxMsg)) total is something you can live with. That said, I have been fortunate to never have to set up a quota. Storage is cheap. An occasional cron job can point out individual users who might be beyond what you'd consider reasonable, and to those users, apply a LART. -- http://rob0.nodns4.us/ -- system administration and consulting Offlist GMX mail is seen only if /dev/rob0 is in the Subject:
[Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that is over 1MB, Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected probably for days. So user might not even realize that they didn't receive one of the mails. Also having a user almost over quota is a rather strange state I think. So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?). Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior there's really no point in adding the option.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
+1 Better to be lenient, than to confuse users by accepting some but not other messages. I believe most larger mail providers has a max message size of around 64MB or less, so allowing the final message to exceed quota by about that sounds reasonable to me. -jf
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
+1 to one last mail, though it would be nice if the over percentage could be configurable... -- Computerisms Bob Miller 867-334-7117 / 867-633-3760 http://computerisms.ca On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 22:39 +0200, Timo Sirainen wrote: Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that is over 1MB, Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected probably for days. So user might not even realize that they didn't receive one of the mails. Also having a user almost over quota is a rather strange state I think. So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?). Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior there's really no point in adding the option.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: Currently if user is 1MB under quota and someone tries to deliver mail that is over 1MB, Dovecot rejects the mail. But smaller mails aren't rejected probably for days. So user might not even realize that they didn't receive one of the mails. Also having a user almost over quota is a rather strange state I think. So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? Except add a limit that if the message size is as much as the user's entire quota limit it wouldn't be added (or 50% or ..?). Also IMAP wouldn't allow this, since user would get an error anyway. I could make this also optional, but if nobody really wants to keep the old behavior there's really no point in adding the option. Yes, please add this new option. If possible with configurable limit. I'd rather have a user go directly over quota with one final mail than have a situation where half the mails get delivered and the other half is rejected. From a 1st level support stand point this new behavior is easier to explain than the way it is now. By looking into my new crytal ball I can see the following happening: A user with 300KBytes under his quota gets a mail with 500KBytes in size. This of course bounces. He is then called by the sender who complains about the full mailbox. The user then sends himself a test mail (Subject: Test, Body: Test) which is delivered, because it is rather small and fits inside the few bytes left. The user then is confused. (And I have to use some of my precious time to explain to the user the inner workings of the mail system. ;)) So I'd very much appreciate such an option. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 22:39 +0200, Timo Sirainen wrote: So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? +1 only if configurable, and with an additional configurable quota percentage value option for those that do enable the function. In 99.9% of cases I could never see a service provider wanting this, but some small private businesses perhaps might see a benefit in it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Dovecot] POLL: v2.2 to allow one mail over quota?
Noel Butler noel.but...@ausics.net wrote: On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 22:39 +0200, Timo Sirainen wrote: So what do you think about v2.2 allowing delivery of one last mail even if it brings the user over quota? +1 only if configurable, and with an additional configurable quota percentage value option for those that do enable the function. In 99.9% of cases I could never see a service provider wanting this, but some small private businesses perhaps might see a benefit in it. If your user quota is 1GiB (which is not big, if you look at todays user quotas even at freemail providers) and the max mail size 30MiB, then a users max mailbox size would then be 1054MiB. Not an unreasonable price to pay for an easier to understand error condition, IMHO. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.
