RE: [drakelist] Microphone question
Ron Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rich, The radio is a 300 watt INPUT radio. At the best linear efficiency you could expect ~60% output on the radio, or 180 watts peak. I know there are those who say they get way more then that reading, but they are either running into an uncalibrated meter, or are putting more the 300 watts into to the rig. And I can see the hate mail coming on this :-) I would do the following: 1) you know you have an improper mic impedence, get that fixed. 2) see how many watts are coming out in CW mode. #2 will get you and idea how good your RF chain is in the TX. I would expect about 150 watts OUTPUT on CW. That should be easy to measure, but don't leave the rig in CW mode key down too long. The sweep tube finals are not made for key down duty. Seems to me that the TR3 did not need a key in the jack to be key down aka the key jack is closed by default. Was easy way to tune the rig as I recall. #1 will get good audio into the radio. Then see what your peak reading watt meter says. BTW, do both the CW and the SSB on peak reading mode of the meter. Peak reading modes are basically a hang amplifier. Charge a cap and use its voltage to driver the meter via a set of internal amps. The peak on CW, is *basically* what you would expect to see on peak of SSB if your meter is working correctly. Also, for CW on peak, you should see you meter go up quickly on keying the rig, and then slowly go back to 0 when you let off the CW carrier. If it does not, then your peak meter is not working as I would expect it to. 73, Ron WD8SBB On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Rich Carter wrote: Rich Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Ron I'm using a Daiwa HF wattmeter on the peak setting. While I realize the meter should show a low reading, I would expect that a I should need to reduce the RF gain from max to prevent overdriving the rig. Since the rig lacks speech compression, I don't know what I should measure, but I would expect a 300W rig to drive at least 10W or or more. What do others see on their meters? It seems to me that the collins mic I have is not matched properly. I have my hands full alignment issues. It may be best for me to replace the mic with something that is known to work with this rig. Rich - KE1EV -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] Microphone question
David Chris Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rich, Forget the mic for the time being. Do this first: Most of the three tube TR's with fresh finals will/should show between 180 and 200 watts out on 40m. Tune it up this way: ..Set the mic gain at 10:00. Set mode to the x-cw position and, watching the wattmeter (any will do), adjust the load and tune for maximum output, as well as the RF tune control (peak all three). Don't leave the rig in x-cw for more than a few seconds at a time. Again, using the wattmeter only, peak all three controls by placing the rig in the x-CW mode. This is the lock down/key down tune up position. Once you have peaked the rig here, key the mike and speak into the microphone in a normal voice and adjust the mic gain up or down from the 10:00 position previously set, until you see a small amount of movement upscale on the rigs meter. This should be about right for SSB work. It aslo means that the agc is in engaged. As an example, a D-104 or a Shure 444d, both high impedance mics, will be at the correct setting at about 10:00 +/-. A low impedance mic just won't work. Most any of the shure mics will work fine with a drake if they are high impedance. The rig does like impedances of upwards of 50k ohms, but generally, anything above 10k or so should work, just not sound as well as the others. Some of the Shure hand mics also work very good. I believe one was the 404?. But in the day of mobil operation with these jewels, that was the mic of choice. Another check to make, if the chosen mic does'nt seem to provide output on a peak reading meter, put the rig is x-cw and move the mic gain back and then advance it. At the point where no further ouput is seen, you are set about right. Normally, you want the gain control back just a tad for SSB to avoid overdriveing the audio. The AGC circuit should be in control, but with older rigs, it may not be up to par, so for best operation look at your rigs meter and adjust as previously stated. Once you have the rig tuned to max output as above and set the mic gain as indicated, you should see the output suggested above. If not you have another problem. If output is ok, move on to solve the mic question. Remember, if you have a rig problem, no mic is going to work right. So check the rig first. Good luck, David Wd9cmd - Original Message - From: Ron Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: RE: [drakelist] Microphone question Ron Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rich, The radio is a 300 watt INPUT radio. At the best linear efficiency you could expect ~60% output on the radio, or 180 watts peak. I know there are those who say they get way more then that reading, but they are either running into an uncalibrated meter, or are putting more the 300 watts into to the rig. And I can see the hate mail coming on this :-) I would do the following: 1) you know you have an improper mic impedence, get that fixed. 2) see how many watts are coming out in CW mode. #2 will get you and idea how good your RF chain is in the TX. I would expect about 150 watts OUTPUT on CW. That should be easy to measure, but don't leave the rig in CW mode key down too long. The sweep tube finals are not made for key down duty. Seems to me that the TR3 did not need a key in the jack to be key down aka the key jack is closed by default. Was easy way to tune the rig as I recall. #1 will get good audio into the radio. Then see what your peak reading watt meter says. BTW, do both the CW and the SSB on peak reading mode of the meter. Peak reading modes are basically a hang amplifier. Charge a cap and use its voltage to driver the meter via a set of internal amps. The peak on CW, is *basically* what you would expect to see on peak of SSB if your meter is working correctly. Also, for CW on peak, you should see you meter go up quickly on keying the rig, and then slowly go back to 0 when you let off the CW carrier. If it does not, then your peak meter is not working as I would expect it to. 73, Ron WD8SBB On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Rich Carter wrote: Rich Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Ron I'm using a Daiwa HF wattmeter on the peak setting. While I realize the meter should show a low reading, I would expect that a I should need to reduce the RF gain from max to prevent overdriving the rig. Since the rig lacks speech compression, I don't know what I should measure, but I would expect a 300W rig to drive at least 10W or or more. What do others see on their meters? It seems to me that the collins mic I have
Re: [drakelist] Microphone question
Jim Shorney [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:44:34 -0500, David Chris Drake wrote: Remember, if you have a rig problem, no mic is going to work right. So check the rig first. Agreed. I didn't see anything in the OP's description of the mic that told me for sure it wasn't high impedance. Ohmmeter readings are simply not reliable as a measure of impedance. Indeed, if the mic was included with the radio and had the proper plug on it, it is a reasonable (although not 100% assured) assumption that it worked correctly at some point. He has alignment issues which should be resolved first, then verify the output and audio chain as you desciribed. Once the radio is verified to be functioning correctly for the most part, then it is time to look at the microphone. An audio generator or known good Hi-Z mic can be used to verify the mic input of the radio. Mics tend to be very reliable, barring abused cord problems or poorly soldered plugs. The simplest part of the system is usually the least likely to fail. (This statement does not apply to mobile operation, where the cord will ALWAYS fail given enough time). 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C TR7/RV7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C, L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] Microphone question
Mike Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Just a suggestion Rich; try a Shure 444 or D104 (without the preamp) on your TR-3. This radio and the 4 line have a High Z mic input. You will get good results with either of these 2 mic's although there are a myriad of others that will fill the bill as well. Good DX! Mike W4DL Ron Wagner wrote: Ron Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rich, It has been a while since I had my TR3, but I do remember that a 600 ohm hand mic I had tried was not good match for the rig. I would guess 2K ohms would be in the ball park. They were made in the days of high impedence mics. As far as getting only a few watts out, how are you measuring that? Most watt meters I have seen (unless they are peak reading) only show a few watts of RF on the Drakes while measuring SSB. Drakes are not using compression, so they have a very large peak to average power ratio. What that means is that unless the meter is designed to read peak power, it will show a very low average power. Average power being what most meters read. My TR7 typically shows about 5 watts on my Drake MN4 watt meter. And I know that on a peak watt meter I have ~200 watts going out. One last thing, on AM it will also show low power. Drakes use controlled carrier AM. That is the carrier changed as you spoke. What that does is lower the heat on the finals. The TV sweep tubes were designed for high peak, low average power. If you ran them any other way, you wore them out very quickly. Ideal for uncompressed SSB service, not so good for other service. Hope this helps. 73, Ron WD8SBB On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Rich Carter wrote: The mic came with the rig. I assume they should work together. The mic seems to work, but it doesn't have enough drive for the radio. I only get a couple of watts out for SSB if I yell into the mic. The problem could be in the rig, but I thought it best to check the mic first. I opened it up. There's a 4 ohm microphone element and a matching transformer that says BT3 001 on it. I can find no specs for the mic. What is more frustrating is there appears to be no information about what the drake transceiver wants for mic impedance. I don't have any matching transformers in my spare parts bin. Before I run out there and buy some parts, I thought it best to see if anyone knows what the heck the rig wants. Thanks for the reply Rich -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
RE: [drakelist] Microphone question
Rich Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Mike I'll take your suggestion and replace the mic. Thanks Rich -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Williams Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:51 A To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [drakelist] Microphone question Mike Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Just a suggestion Rich; try a Shure 444 or D104 (without the preamp) on your TR-3. This radio and the 4 line have a High Z mic input. You will get good results with either of these 2 mic's although there are a myriad of others that will fill the bill as well. Good DX! Mike W4DL Ron Wagner wrote: Ron Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rich, It has been a while since I had my TR3, but I do remember that a 600 ohm hand mic I had tried was not good match for the rig. I would guess 2K ohms would be in the ball park. They were made in the days of high impedence mics. As far as getting only a few watts out, how are you measuring that? Most watt meters I have seen (unless they are peak reading) only show a few watts of RF on the Drakes while measuring SSB. Drakes are not using compression, so they have a very large peak to average power ratio. What that means is that unless the meter is designed to read peak power, it will show a very low average power. Average power being what most meters read. My TR7 typically shows about 5 watts on my Drake MN4 watt meter. And I know that on a peak watt meter I have ~200 watts going out. One last thing, on AM it will also show low power. Drakes use controlled carrier AM. That is the carrier changed as you spoke. What that does is lower the heat on the finals. The TV sweep tubes were designed for high peak, low average power. If you ran them any other way, you wore them out very quickly. Ideal for uncompressed SSB service, not so good for other service. Hope this helps. 73, Ron WD8SBB On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Rich Carter wrote: The mic came with the rig. I assume they should work together. The mic seems to work, but it doesn't have enough drive for the radio. I only get a couple of watts out for SSB if I yell into the mic. The problem could be in the rig, but I thought it best to check the mic first. I opened it up. There's a 4 ohm microphone element and a matching transformer that says BT3 001 on it. I can find no specs for the mic. What is more frustrating is there appears to be no information about what the drake transceiver wants for mic impedance. I don't have any matching transformers in my spare parts bin. Before I run out there and buy some parts, I thought it best to see if anyone knows what the heck the rig wants. Thanks for the reply Rich -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
RE: [drakelist] Microphone question
Rich Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Ron I'm using a Daiwa HF wattmeter on the peak setting. While I realize the meter should show a low reading, I would expect that a I should need to reduce the RF gain from max to prevent overdriving the rig. Since the rig lacks speech compression, I don't know what I should measure, but I would expect a 300W rig to drive at least 10W or or more. What do others see on their meters? It seems to me that the collins mic I have is not matched properly. I have my hands full alignment issues. It may be best for me to replace the mic with something that is known to work with this rig. Rich - KE1EV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wagner Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [drakelist] Microphone question Ron Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Rich, It has been a while since I had my TR3, but I do remember that a 600 ohm hand mic I had tried was not good match for the rig. I would guess 2K ohms would be in the ball park. They were made in the days of high impedence mics. As far as getting only a few watts out, how are you measuring that? Most watt meters I have seen (unless they are peak reading) only show a few watts of RF on the Drakes while measuring SSB. Drakes are not using compression, so they have a very large peak to average power ratio. What that means is that unless the meter is designed to read peak power, it will show a very low average power. Average power being what most meters read. My TR7 typically shows about 5 watts on my Drake MN4 watt meter. And I know that on a peak watt meter I have ~200 watts going out. One last thing, on AM it will also show low power. Drakes use controlled carrier AM. That is the carrier changed as you spoke. What that does is lower the heat on the finals. The TV sweep tubes were designed for high peak, low average power. If you ran them any other way, you wore them out very quickly. Ideal for uncompressed SSB service, not so good for other service. Hope this helps. 73, Ron WD8SBB On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Rich Carter wrote: The mic came with the rig. I assume they should work together. The mic seems to work, but it doesn't have enough drive for the radio. I only get a couple of watts out for SSB if I yell into the mic. The problem could be in the rig, but I thought it best to check the mic first. I opened it up. There's a 4 ohm microphone element and a matching transformer that says BT3 001 on it. I can find no specs for the mic. What is more frustrating is there appears to be no information about what the drake transceiver wants for mic impedance. I don't have any matching transformers in my spare parts bin. Before I run out there and buy some parts, I thought it best to see if anyone knows what the heck the rig wants. Thanks for the reply Rich -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] Microphone question
Richard Arland, W3OSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- I second Mike' suggestion. I have both and the Shure 444 works great. The D-104 is on display but still useable if I need it in a hurry. 73 Rich W3OSS | Just a suggestion Rich; try a Shure 444 or D104 (without the preamp) on | your TR-3. This radio and the 4 line have a High Z mic input. You will | get good results with either of these 2 mic's although there are a | myriad of others that will fill the bill as well. | | Good DX! | | Mike W4DL | -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
Re: [drakelist] Microphone question
Jim Shorney [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:36:19 -0500, Eugene Balinski wrote: Eugene Balinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Definitely replace the mic. Look for something with an impedance of approx 50k ohms (Hi-z). I have seen plenty of hand mics that will do that. From the description, the Collins mic he has already has a transformer in it. I wouldn't toss the Collins mic on the heap just yet, there may be a problem in the mic circuit of the radio. It should also be pointed out that measuring DC resistance with an ohmmeter is not the same as measuring impedance. You are only measuring the DC resistance of the wire. This will not provide an accurate measurement of impedance, it will only tell you (in the case of a transformer) which side is high and which is low. To measure the actual impedance, you need to get a little fancier. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C TR7/RV7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C, L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
RE: [drakelist] Microphone question
Peter Bent [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Hi Sorry I am just getting into this conversation. Pull the mike apart and check all the connections, if you haven't done that. Bought a second hand mike from Ebay and although it did not work as advertised with my Drake Tr-7, soldering a broken wire solved the problem and it works like a charm. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Shorney Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [drakelist] Microphone question Jim Shorney [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:36:19 -0500, Eugene Balinski wrote: Eugene Balinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Definitely replace the mic. Look for something with an impedance of approx 50k ohms (Hi-z). I have seen plenty of hand mics that will do that. From the description, the Collins mic he has already has a transformer in it. I wouldn't toss the Collins mic on the heap just yet, there may be a problem in the mic circuit of the radio. It should also be pointed out that measuring DC resistance with an ohmmeter is not the same as measuring impedance. You are only measuring the DC resistance of the wire. This will not provide an accurate measurement of impedance, it will only tell you (in the case of a transformer) which side is high and which is low. To measure the actual impedance, you need to get a little fancier. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C TR7/RV7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C, L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net -- -- Submissions:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
RE: [drakelist] Microphone question
The mic came with the rig. I assume they should work together. The mic seems to work, but it doesn't have enough drive for the radio. I only get a couple of watts out for SSB if I yell into the mic. The problem could be in the rig, but I thought it best to check the mic first. I opened it up. There's a 4 ohm microphone element and a matching transformer that says BT3 001 on it. I can find no specs for the mic. What is more frustrating is there appears to be no information about what the drake transceiver wants for mic impedance. I don't have any matching transformers in my spare parts bin. Before I run out there and buy some parts, I thought it best to see if anyone knows what the heck the rig wants. Thanks for the reply Rich _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [drakelist] Microphone question [EMAIL PROTECTED] made an utterance to the drakelist gang -- Possibly none depending on the transmitter it is intended for. Or, it might need a step up or step down transformer depending on the impedance of the mic element and the input impedance of the transmitter. ** Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 -- Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body Hopelessly Lost: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message Zerobeat Web Page: www.zerobeat.net - sponsored by www.tlchost.net --
