[DX-CHAT] QSP from HS
Extensive flooding in and around Bangkok, Thailand appears to have delayed, and in some cases, caused the return-to-sender of all categories of mail addressed to this whole area. If anyone received a piece of mail marked Return To Sender from HS or E2 hams, sending again appears the good thing to do. The flooding is no longer a problem. 73, HS0ZCW --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
[DX-CHAT] Who should pay for a DXpedition?
Hola Teo The Brits seem to have a different attitude ! Quote from G3SXW on some oprs : they just do not understand how to manage their DXpedition within affordable limits. Felice Navidad 73 rag la5he ! Fra: EA6BH Palma ea6b...@gmail.com Til: da...@wcf.com; dx-chat@njdxa.org; c...@ncdxc.org Sendt: Torsdag, 22. desember 2011 1.20 Emne: Re: [DX-CHAT] Who should pay for a DXpedition? IT IS FOR 4W6A QSO 22/9 0725 18 RTTY QSO 24/9 0654 18 RTTY Merry Christmas Teo EA6BH - Original Message - From: Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com To: dx-chat@njdxa.org; c...@ncdxc.org Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:51 PM Subject: [DX-CHAT] Who should pay for a DXpedition? At 11:11 12/21/2011, Ryan Jairam wrote: It is apparent that some don't realize the massive costs of a major DXpedition. It's not simply two guys taking a boat with a rig and a wire antenna. Some of these operations cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or as some have opined for an upcoming attempt, even $1M. Which raises the question: Who should eat the cost? My answer is: The DXers should eat the cost of their personal expenses like food and minimal lodging. Ridiculous lodging like $300 per bed night at Sable is a different matter. The DXers should also contribute something to the general expenses of the trip. But the bulk of the remainder should be born by clubs/foundations and the deserving. If Heard will cost $1M and generates 100K QSOs, that is $10 per QSO. Are the deserving really willing to pay that? And if not, who will? I can't imagine 20 DXers ponying up $50K each. Is the day of the DXpedition to remote rocks over? -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE Programming since 1959 All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
[DX-CHAT] LOTW praise
From another reflector : Meldingstekst Yesterday, having got E51MAN LOTW confirmations, I submitted a LOTW-only DXCC update, the first since Oct 2010. This morning my LOTW totals have been updated. Fantastic, well done to NC1L team. -- 73 Alan 5B4AHJ-5B50J-P3J N7OU is to be commended for his Pacific dxpeditions over the past couple of years ! Excellent operator and timely LOTW update ! Prime example of high standard ! 73 rag la5he --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
On 12/21/2011 5:56 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote: Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points. But let's stick to the important one... I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at some point. I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to find out when they plan to do that. The group has done several other trips in the past, including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in the past... why would they change now? Good morning Ron all: For what it's worth, I'm not sure how the ST0R folks are making the decisions about uploading to LOTW, but I was quite late in requesting a card. I used the method on their web site that sent the minimum $ via Pay Pal. Very quickly I received a paper QSL, and somewhere in the same time frame a confirmation showed up in my LOTW account. Yesterday I sent for it and several other LOTW credits, and zip-pop, it was done. No Sweat, new one confirmed. 73, Mike, W5UC --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
Mike, Some people want LoTW confirmations immediately after DXpedition is over without any contribution. I guess their next move should be requesting free LoTW confirmations at ARRL. 73's Boris E73Y -Original Message- From: kf...@njdxa.org on behalf of Mike(W5UC) Sent: čet 22.12.2011 13:39 To: wn3...@verizon.net Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW On 12/21/2011 5:56 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote: Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points. But let's stick to the important one... I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at some point. I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to find out when they plan to do that. The group has done several other trips in the past, including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in the past... why would they change now? Good morning Ron all: For what it's worth, I'm not sure how the ST0R folks are making the decisions about uploading to LOTW, but I was quite late in requesting a card. I used the method on their web site that sent the minimum $ via Pay Pal. Very quickly I received a paper QSL, and somewhere in the same time frame a confirmation showed up in my LOTW account. Yesterday I sent for it and several other LOTW credits, and zip-pop, it was done. No Sweat, new one confirmed. 73, Mike, W5UC --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
One could argue that LotW is the electronic equivalent of a bureau card but it does not require printing, handling, or shipping. Since LotW requires no processing ... LotW should reasonably be available within six weeks or so after the end of the DXpedition to allow the team to return home and submit the necessary paperwork for approval of the operation and LotW certificate. The extent to which one agrees with the upload quickly camp depends on the degree to which one believes that QSLing is a profit center for the DXpedition. However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of net profit in direct cards after printing and postage. An SASE to/from an in country manager is a net loss to the DXpedition. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 12/22/2011 10:23 AM, Boris Knezović wrote: Mike, Some people want LoTW confirmations immediately after DXpedition is over without any contribution. I guess their next move should be requesting free LoTW confirmations at ARRL. 73's Boris E73Y -Original Message- From: kf...@njdxa.org on behalf of Mike(W5UC) Sent: čet 22.12.2011 13:39 To: wn3...@verizon.net Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW On 12/21/2011 5:56 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote: Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points. But let's stick to the important one... I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at some point. I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to find out when they plan to do that. The group has done several other trips in the past, including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in the past... why would they change now? Good morning Ron all: For what it's worth, I'm not sure how the ST0R folks are making the decisions about uploading to LOTW, but I was quite late in requesting a card. I used the method on their web site that sent the minimum $ via Pay Pal. Very quickly I received a paper QSL, and somewhere in the same time frame a confirmation showed up in my LOTW account. Yesterday I sent for it and several other LOTW credits, and zip-pop, it was done. No Sweat, new one confirmed. 73, Mike, W5UC --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW (Long)
I think a few general comments on use of Logbook of the World are in order.Of course, first and foremost, this is my opinion only, YMMV.And by no means is this a criticism of LotW. I am very much in favor of the entire concept. If I have any gripe at all, it would be more of a lament that more resources are not devoted towards it, not just in terms of maintaining the code, the databases, and the server itself... but towards improving and expanding the capabilities of the system. But that's not my purpose today.I think that this entire discussion, with regards to STØR in particular, has overlooked one very important point:Just because you CAN do something does not always mean you SHOULD.Yes, the capability to upload almost instantly is there, and it's great. But it's one thing for you or I as individuals to do this. We keep our logs, we know our logs, we know right away what's legit and what isn't (or at least I do, I hope you do to!) Things get a mite more complicated when it comes to multi-op logs, especially from a major, multioperator, multi-national DXpedition anywhere near this scope. Station and mode logs have to be merged, some processing and cross checking has to be done, in some cases some issues with language related discrepancies (starting with American English vs. British English!) might need resolved. Problems noted with regards to posted on-line "on demand" logs mayneed addressed as well.This has to be done sooner or later; better to do it first and get it right while things are still "fresh" in everyone's mind. So there's one delay.Second, I think we get a little spoiled. Yes, some groups have their act together better than others. Some plan better or more thoroughly. Or, more lilkely, some groups have different priorities... maybe Logbook (or eQSL or similar services) is not a high priority to them, other things are being taken care of first,before, during and/or after the trip. So there's another reason why there may be a delay between the time a trip ends and the logs get posted.Most importantly... last but certainly not least... appearances to the contrary, most (the vast majority by far) of the DXpedition operators are not professionals. They don't play radio for a living. Yes, I know, many are now retired and have money to burn and time to devote. But many have families and jobs and other obligations. Sure, they just carved out 2 weeks to a month or more to operate from Lower Slobovia for your pleasure... and that includes transport back and forth... now they have to return to real life. No doubt they have things to catch up on. And many are probably a little tired and weary from days or weeks of operating, and need a chance to take a breath, recharge, and do something else. Big deal, then let the QSL manager do it, you think? Sometimes the QSL manager (or the leader of the QSL processing group) is a member of the team that took the trip; see paragraph above. And they still need time to process the logs, get the cards printed, and allthat.So what's the rush? Why the demands to get cards turned around so quickly, or to get the logs posted?In no particular order: Impatience and ego. A combination of "I need it NOW" and "I need to brag about it NOW" Yeah, OK, I know that the ARRL's deadline for the annual status checks is the end of the year. So it's missed. So what? So the end of the year snapshot shows you 1 shy of HR, or 1 shy of the top. So what? You think you're the only one? You think you're being singled out? On the contrary; it's not just you, it's hundreds, maybe thousands, all in the same boat, waiting for the elusive confirmation.Does your ego demand that YOU must be taken care of ahead of everyone else? [If so, you may need professional assistance in dealing with this.]What is the worse case? You get your confirmation next year instead of next week. But you still get it. OK, OK, I know that there have been a few indiviuals, and a few groups, that have stated that theyare holding back on LotW until all of the direct cards are issued (to be "fair"), or are giving their donors a "perk" by uploading them first. I'm not going to defend this as "right", nor am I going to defend anyone (individual or group) who holds up ANY confirmation process (paper or electronic) to help pay the bills. Too many people go on DXpeditions for the sake of their egos. I'm not saying that's a bad thing (after all, otherwise they might not go at all!), but let's keep this in perspective: They're going because they WANT to go. Fine. Just don't expect ME to pay to feed YOUR ego. If you can't afford to go, then don't go.Yes, let me say that again: If you can't afford to go, then don't go. Don't demand "donations" to pay for your trip... or your radio operating while on vacation. And don't hold confirmations up as a hostage until you get the loot. That's called "blackmail" and I do believe it's illegal.Sure. Some places are rare because they are hard to get to, the trip is difficult, and it's
[DX-CHAT] -LOTW
However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of net profit in direct cards after printing and postage. An SASE to/from an in country manager is a net loss to the DXpedition. 73, ... Joe, W4TV What you say makes perfect sense-.Add the cost for the deserving and it becomes obvious that LOTW is a Win-Win situation. So why some people are so reluctant to use right away it escapes me . 73 Rag LA5HE --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
Oh, heck Rag, that's easy. Some people don't have computers in their shack. or even their home. May be hard to believe, but it's true (I know quite a few right here in my town). So Logbook of the World is not an option for them at all. Some people are old fashioned. They just plain like having the physical card. You can put me in that camp. There's something about that physical card that an electronic confirmation just doesn't come anywhere near. Some people just don't like the ARRL. Why is an entirely different matter for another time. For this group, if the League had anything to do with it, it must be bad. Some believe (IMHO quite incorrectly) that LotW is, in one form or another, too hard to use. Even if you help get them set up, they won't upload. unless you (or someone) is willing to do all the work for them. Some people don't want to be bothered with the security. You will read or hear the argument that LotW is more secure than most banks, credit cards, or other financial institutions. Which actually says a lot more about how insecure your money and credit might be, but you'll never convince them of that. Some like the concept of LotW, but are convinced that it's somehow a money-making scheme that will rip off the average amateur. You can open the books and show them otherwise, but they won't believe you. Some believe that LotW is a concept stolen from eQSL. And they've chosen sides. you can tell them all you want about the history behind LotW, and how for decades people (I'm one of these too) at the DX Forum at the Dayton Hamvention amongst other places, long before the advent of the World Wide Web, begging for something like this. They won't believe you. And some people are just ornery, crotchety curmudgeons who don't like change or anything new. If it was good enough for Hiram Percy Maxim, it was good enough for them. (Don't look for these guys on PSK-31. or even SSB) Given time, I'm sure we can come up with more reasons. But most importantly, never forget that Logbook of the World is meant to supplement the traditional QSL process, or serve as an alternative to it. It was never meant to outright replace the traditional QSL card in the short term, if ever. Now given time, to say nothing of postage increases IRC acquisition hassles, I'm certain that you will see more and more people accept and use LotW in place of the traditional card. But the QSL card will always have its place. It will be a sad day when it fades away. 73, ron w3wn _ From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of ragnar otterstad Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:09 PM To: DX-Chat@njdxa.org Subject: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of net profit in direct cards after printing and postage. An SASE to/from an in country manager is a net loss to the DXpedition. 73, ... Joe, W4TV What you say makes perfect sense-.Add the cost for the deserving and it becomes obvious that LOTW is a Win-Win situation. So why some people are so reluctant to use right away it escapes me . 73 Rag LA5HE --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
I have to comment on a couple of these: On 12/22/11, Ron Notarius W3WN wn3...@verizon.net wrote: Oh, heck Rag, that's easy. Some people don't have computers in their shack. or even their home. May be hard to believe, but it's true (I know quite a few right here in my town). So Logbook of the World is not an option for them at all. Some people just don't like the ARRL. Why is an entirely different matter for another time. For this group, if the League had anything to do with it, it must be bad. Are these people likely to be participating in DXCC? I know some ARRL-haters who say they do not and will not participate in ARRL awards programs. Some people don't want to be bothered with the security. You will read or hear the argument that LotW is more secure than most banks, credit cards, or other financial institutions. Which actually says a lot more about how insecure your money and credit might be, but you'll never convince them of that. I've had credit card info hijacked at least once a year for the last 5 years or so (a different card each time). I don't know where the security leaks are but they are obviously there. I just had it happen with a Discover card last week. That one is a puzzler because I haven't even used the card in two years. The only card on that account that exists resides in my wallet which never leaves my sight. And it's not one of those cards that can be read from a distance electronically. I just got my credentials for LOTW; now I need to find the time to organize my logs and upload them! I am also one of the people who still likes paper cards. For some DXpeditions I'll probably want a paper card AND LOTW confirmation. 73, Zack W9SZ --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
