Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,3/31/2016 2:13 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

While I never tune while driving, I got rid of the autotuners for the HI-Q 
5-160 antenna and installed a switch to allow me to transfer the antenna to a 
FG-01 analyzer.


Short loaded antennas are, by their nature, pretty narrow band for 
tuning. When I still ran HF mobile, I found that a rig with an 
auto-tuner was a big help in extending the useful bandwidth of an 
antenna. If, for example, the antenna was resonant on 7075, a tuner 
might match it to the rig from 7000 to 7150 or even higher, whereas 
without the tuner I'd be limited to about half that.


Bearing in mind that in a mobile installation, coax is too short to 
introduce enough loss to matter, so it's merely a matter of making the 
rig's output stage happy (and running at full output).


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft]

Interesting comments Mel.  I have purchased  a Little Tarheel and installed it 
on my vehicle, but I have not got around to doing anything with it.  I have a 
MFJ tuner that looks like it will work as well as the one you use.  Are you 
using a Coax switch?  I would be interested in your pictures if you have them 
on line.  I also have a MFJ tuner that I have not installed as yet, but it 
looks like if you installed the tuner so that it is in line with the anslyzer 
or the rig when you have a coax switch installed you could use auto tune and 
then see what you have as well. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke,

  From: Mel Farrer via Elecraft 
 To: Bill Frantz ; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
 
 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 4:13 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"
   
While I never tune while driving, I got rid of the autotuners for the HI-Q 
5-160 antenna and installed a switch to allow me to transfer the antenna to a 
FG-01 analyzer.  So when I need to move frequency, I pull over stop, switch to 
the analyzer and tune the antenna.  Simple and fool proof.  Legal too.  
Pictures on file.

Mel, K6KBE


      From: Bill Frantz 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 1:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"
  
I have a Little Tarheel screwdriver antenna on the 4Runner. It 
works well on 21MHz and higher, and less well as you go down in 
frequency. When parked, I try to add an external counterpose 
clipped to the ground side of the antenna mount, which seems to 
help on 40M. I really think you want your counterpose to be on 
the order of 1/4 wave long, and the 4Runner isn't 10 meters long.

I do remember doing search and pounce in the California QSO 
party on 80M. As I tuned up the band and found a new station, I 
had to re-turn the antenna, which I did while giving my call. 
Everyone who answered said something along the line of, "You're 
down in the noise, but we'll make it work." I thank them.

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

While I never tune while driving, I got rid of the autotuners for the HI-Q 
5-160 antenna and installed a switch to allow me to transfer the antenna to a 
FG-01 analyzer.  So when I need to move frequency, I pull over stop, switch to 
the analyzer and tune the antenna.  Simple and fool proof.  Legal too.  
Pictures on file.

Mel, K6KBE


  From: Bill Frantz 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 1:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"
   
I have a Little Tarheel screwdriver antenna on the 4Runner. It 
works well on 21MHz and higher, and less well as you go down in 
frequency. When parked, I try to add an external counterpose 
clipped to the ground side of the antenna mount, which seems to 
help on 40M. I really think you want your counterpose to be on 
the order of 1/4 wave long, and the 4Runner isn't 10 meters long.

I do remember doing search and pounce in the California QSO 
party on 80M. As I tuned up the band and found a new station, I 
had to re-turn the antenna, which I did while giving my call. 
Everyone who answered said something along the line of, "You're 
down in the noise, but we'll make it work." I thank them.

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[Bill Frantz]

I have a Little Tarheel screwdriver antenna on the 4Runner. It 
works well on 21MHz and higher, and less well as you go down in 
frequency. When parked, I try to add an external counterpose 
clipped to the ground side of the antenna mount, which seems to 
help on 40M. I really think you want your counterpose to be on 
the order of 1/4 wave long, and the 4Runner isn't 10 meters long.


I do remember doing search and pounce in the California QSO 
party on 80M. As I tuned up the band and found a new station, I 
had to re-turn the antenna, which I did while giving my call. 
Everyone who answered said something along the line of, "You're 
down in the noise, but we'll make it work." I thank them.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,3/31/2016 11:29 AM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

K0BG's website is considered by many to be the ultimate source of of
vehicle-related information.


Yes, but some of it is wrong.

73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[Ken G Kopp]

K0BG's website is considered by many to be the ultimate source of of
vehicle-related information.

73

Ken - K0PP
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Re: [Elecraft] Attaching a whip to the KX3, HT-style or table-top (right angle)

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

While I found a DC ground on the bed of my GMC, I had a beautiful match...  
Hint loss..  Put a 2" wide copper strap to the frame after grinding down to 
metal and using Penetrox to seal the connection.  Had to change the match at 
the base, but performance was noticeably better.  Less, loss.. I then went 
around an bonded ever piece of the body to the frame.  I am happy now.

Mel, K6KBE


  From: Jim Brown 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 10:33 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Attaching a whip to the KX3, HT-style or table-top 
(right angle)
   
On Thu,3/31/2016 6:06 AM, km4...@gmail.com wrote:
> When you operate mobile, do you use some sort of magnetic mount to support 
> the whip? Also does the metal of the vehicle take the place of a counter 
> poise?

I'm not Wayne, but I've studied this issue. Yes, the vehicle chassis 
needs to serve as the counterpoise for a mobile antenna, but I have yet 
to see a mag mount that does that effectively. VHF/UHF mag mounts are 
designed to do that by means of capacitance between the mount and the 
roof, but nearly all that I have seen have no contact between the coax 
shield and the enclosure of the mount!

At HF, I see no practical way for any mag mount I've seen to have 
anywhere near enough capacitance to a roof to work as a counterpoise at HF.

If you want to work mobile, you need to make a solid connection to the 
frame, AND it needs to be a part of the frame that is not insulated from 
the rest of the frame by PAINT. That isn't easy in most modern vehicles.

Two examples. With a Volvo S80 I owned about 15 years ago, I used a 
license plate mount for Hamsticks. The license plate holder was 
insulated from the trunk roof, and the trunk roof was insulated from the 
rest of the body by the hinges, so I had to bond around both. That 
worked pretty well, but I suspect there were still pieces of the body 
that were insulated by paint.

Second example. My current vehicle, a 2006 Toyuota Sequoia (big SUV) 
that I bought in Nov to move to CA from IL. It was winter in Chicago, so 
K9IKZ let me bring it into the loading dock of his biz, and we poked 
around to try to find good contact with the body. Lots of paint in the 
way -- I found bolts a few inches from each other with no continuity 
between them. I eventually mounted the antenna socket to the roof rack, 
and found a nearby bolt that did get to the body.

That worked pretty well as an antenna, but the vehicle has really bad 
susceptibility to HF RF -- at 100W on 20M, the main computer that runs 
the vehicle goes into "limp home mode." I've never bothered to try to 
fix it -- I was in the process of moving when I learned that (on an 
isolated stretch of I-80 in the NV desert), so didn't have time to chase 
it down, and because it was RF on the body that was exciting vehicle 
wiring, I figured that it would have been pretty difficult to fix. :) 
And my only interest in HF mobile is for long trips without the XYL, 
which I no longer take after I finished moving. I've heard that other 
big SUVs are far better in this regard.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Attaching a whip to the KX3, HT-style or table-top (right angle)

[Wayne Burdick]

If you use a mag-mount for an HF whip, be sure to use one with three magnets, 
not one. I tried a Hustler 17-m whip with a one-magnet mount, and it tipped 
over at freeway speeds. 

I agree that the capacitance of a mag-mount is insufficient. The coax braid may 
actually be serving as the better part of the counterpoise.

I gave up on the mag-mount and now have a bracket on the spare tire mount. 
Works great. 

On our KX3 web page you'll find a link to an application note about mobile 
installations. There are many subtleties.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Mar 31, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:

> On Thu,3/31/2016 6:06 AM, km4...@gmail.com wrote:
>> When you operate mobile, do you use some sort of magnetic mount to support 
>> the whip? Also does the metal of the vehicle take the place of a counter 
>> poise?
> 
> I'm not Wayne, but I've studied this issue. Yes, the vehicle chassis needs to 
> serve as the counterpoise for a mobile antenna, but I have yet to see a mag 
> mount that does that effectively. VHF/UHF mag mounts are designed to do that 
> by means of capacitance between the mount and the roof, but nearly all that I 
> have seen have no contact between the coax shield and the enclosure of the 
> mount!
> 
> At HF, I see no practical way for any mag mount I've seen to have anywhere 
> near enough capacitance to a roof to work as a counterpoise at HF.
> 
> If you want to work mobile, you need to make a solid connection to the frame, 
> AND it needs to be a part of the frame that is not insulated from the rest of 
> the frame by PAINT. That isn't easy in most modern vehicles.
> 
> Two examples. With a Volvo S80 I owned about 15 years ago, I used a license 
> plate mount for Hamsticks. The license plate holder was insulated from the 
> trunk roof, and the trunk roof was insulated from the rest of the body by the 
> hinges, so I had to bond around both. That worked pretty well, but I suspect 
> there were still pieces of the body that were insulated by paint.
> 
> Second example. My current vehicle, a 2006 Toyuota Sequoia (big SUV) that I 
> bought in Nov to move to CA from IL. It was winter in Chicago, so K9IKZ let 
> me bring it into the loading dock of his biz, and we poked around to try to 
> find good contact with the body. Lots of paint in the way -- I found bolts a 
> few inches from each other with no continuity between them. I eventually 
> mounted the antenna socket to the roof rack, and found a nearby bolt that did 
> get to the body.
> 
> That worked pretty well as an antenna, but the vehicle has really bad 
> susceptibility to HF RF -- at 100W on 20M, the main computer that runs the 
> vehicle goes into "limp home mode." I've never bothered to try to fix it -- I 
> was in the process of moving when I learned that (on an isolated stretch of 
> I-80 in the NV desert), so didn't have time to chase it down, and because it 
> was RF on the body that was exciting vehicle wiring, I figured that it would 
> have been pretty difficult to fix. :) And my only interest in HF mobile is 
> for long trips without the XYL, which I no longer take after I finished 
> moving. I've heard that other big SUVs are far better in this regard.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC



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[Elecraft] For Sale: K3/100watts

[Alfredo Velez WP3C via Elecraft]

Hi everyone

For sale Elecraft K3/100- S/N 5920 Excellent conditions, only one owner. In 
addition it have: 

Filter CW
KFL3A-250 
KFL3A-400
 
Filter SSB
KFL3A-1.8K 
KFL3A-2.1K 
KFL3A-2.8K 

KAT3A Internal ATU with 2nd Ant. Jack, KDVR3 Digital Voice Recorder, MH2 
Microphone, Manual and Power Cord.

I ask $2,600 shipped


Alfredo Velez WP3C/NP4DX
e-mail: mailto:w...@aol.com
Web: http://www.wp3c.comule.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Attaching a whip to the KX3, HT-style or table-top (right angle)

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,3/31/2016 6:06 AM, km4...@gmail.com wrote:

When you operate mobile, do you use some sort of magnetic mount to support the 
whip? Also does the metal of the vehicle take the place of a counter poise?


I'm not Wayne, but I've studied this issue. Yes, the vehicle chassis 
needs to serve as the counterpoise for a mobile antenna, but I have yet 
to see a mag mount that does that effectively. VHF/UHF mag mounts are 
designed to do that by means of capacitance between the mount and the 
roof, but nearly all that I have seen have no contact between the coax 
shield and the enclosure of the mount!


At HF, I see no practical way for any mag mount I've seen to have 
anywhere near enough capacitance to a roof to work as a counterpoise at HF.


If you want to work mobile, you need to make a solid connection to the 
frame, AND it needs to be a part of the frame that is not insulated from 
the rest of the frame by PAINT. That isn't easy in most modern vehicles.


Two examples. With a Volvo S80 I owned about 15 years ago, I used a 
license plate mount for Hamsticks. The license plate holder was 
insulated from the trunk roof, and the trunk roof was insulated from the 
rest of the body by the hinges, so I had to bond around both. That 
worked pretty well, but I suspect there were still pieces of the body 
that were insulated by paint.


Second example. My current vehicle, a 2006 Toyuota Sequoia (big SUV) 
that I bought in Nov to move to CA from IL. It was winter in Chicago, so 
K9IKZ let me bring it into the loading dock of his biz, and we poked 
around to try to find good contact with the body. Lots of paint in the 
way -- I found bolts a few inches from each other with no continuity 
between them. I eventually mounted the antenna socket to the roof rack, 
and found a nearby bolt that did get to the body.


That worked pretty well as an antenna, but the vehicle has really bad 
susceptibility to HF RF -- at 100W on 20M, the main computer that runs 
the vehicle goes into "limp home mode." I've never bothered to try to 
fix it -- I was in the process of moving when I learned that (on an 
isolated stretch of I-80 in the NV desert), so didn't have time to chase 
it down, and because it was RF on the body that was exciting vehicle 
wiring, I figured that it would have been pretty difficult to fix. :) 
And my only interest in HF mobile is for long trips without the XYL, 
which I no longer take after I finished moving. I've heard that other 
big SUVs are far better in this regard.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Attaching a whip to the KX3, HT-style or table-top (right angle)

[km4ltv]

Wayne,

When you operate mobile, do you use some sort of magnetic mount to support the 
whip? Also does the metal of the vehicle take the place of a counter poise?

Kevin
KM4LTV


Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse any spelling or grammar errors.


> On Mar 29, 2016, at 9:44 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Hi Gerry,
> 
> If I'm using the rig HT-style (/PM, or pedestrian mobile), I just connect the 
> whip directly. The KX3's BNC connector is rigidly attached to the right side 
> panel, with a D-shaped bushing so it can't rotate, and a flexible wire from 
> the BNC's hot lead to the PCB. So you won't hurt anything by doing this. Any 
> 48" long telescoping whip with a base loading coil and BNC will work, though 
> as I mentioned, I'm partial to the MFJ 18xxT series.
> 
> For picnic-table-syle operation, I've been using the whip with a tiny 
> home-made tripod. It has two female BNCs: one at the top for the whip, the 
> other at the bottom at a right angle so it can attach directly to the radio. 
> The radio connection can use either a double-male BNC adapter or a length of 
> coax. The height is adjustable to match the height of the BNC on the radio.
> 
> The tripod has three legs that fold up and out of the way, resulting in a 
> unit that's less than 6" long and 1" in diameter. Weights only a few ounces.
> 
> If anyone besides me is interested in the tripod, maybe we'll make it into an 
> Elecraft product :)
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> Gerry leary  wrote:
> 
>> How do you support the whip when you connected to the radio?
> 
> 
> 
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