Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread Jim Brown 

On 12/18/2021 1:09 AM, Ken WA8JXM wrote:

Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.


Yes, AND groundwave weakens drastically with increasing frequency. With 
average soil, a station operating on 550 kHz will be 21 dB stronger at 
100 miles than a station running the same power than one operating on 
1600 kHz, assuming both are using a single quarter wave tower.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread Ken WA8JXM 
--- "In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12
months a year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression
that 40 meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is
true, an Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have
room for an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter
antenna that can radiate up."


I think it depends on time of day, time of year, and what part of the
sunspot cycle.  40m is pretty much the top limit for NVIS though.  But
sometimes 40 works for NVIS.  That's one of the reasons for our 60m
allocation, NVIS when 40 is too  long and 80m is dead.   OTOH  I've seen
160 too long for statewide coverage at times.

FWIW, I agree a vertical is not an NVIS antenna.  Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.  They are totally
different propagation modes.

Ken WA8JXM

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:22 PM David Herring  wrote:

> It is absolutely true that antennas intended for NVIS use do not have to
> be hung low.  But they CAN be.  And there are instances where doing so can
> be desirable.
>
> When I lived in Hawaii, we used NVIS for reliable statewide HF
> communications to very good effect.  When I hung my dipole up about 30 feet
> or so, I would frequently get calls from hams in Japan, Oceana, mainland
> US, Canada and elsewhere. Ordinarily that would be nice, but when one is
> specifically focused on local comms, that can get to be a problem. When I
> hung my NVIS dipole down around 10 feet, I still got excellent statewide
> communications but no longer got calls from afar.
>
> So I kept my dipole low for local, and erected a vertical for DX.  Both
> worked perfectly for their intended use.
>
> In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12 months a
> year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression that 40
> meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is true, an
> Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have room for
> an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter antenna
> that can radiate up.
>
> 73,
> Dave - N5DCH
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Julia Tuttle 
> wrote:
> >
> > Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
> > vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
> > desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown  > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:
> >>> What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> >>> NVIS field day?
> >>
> >> There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
> >> totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
> >> NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
> >> wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
> >> several years ago.
> >>
> >> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>
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Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread David Herring 
It is absolutely true that antennas intended for NVIS use do not have to be 
hung low.  But they CAN be.  And there are instances where doing so can be 
desirable.

When I lived in Hawaii, we used NVIS for reliable statewide HF communications 
to very good effect.  When I hung my dipole up about 30 feet or so, I would 
frequently get calls from hams in Japan, Oceana, mainland US, Canada and 
elsewhere. Ordinarily that would be nice, but when one is specifically focused 
on local comms, that can get to be a problem. When I hung my NVIS dipole down 
around 10 feet, I still got excellent statewide communications but no longer 
got calls from afar.

So I kept my dipole low for local, and erected a vertical for DX.  Both worked 
perfectly for their intended use.

In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12 months a year. 
Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression that 40 meters 
almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is true, an Elecraft 
NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have room for an 80 meter 
dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter antenna that can radiate 
up.

73,
Dave - N5DCH




> On Dec 17, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
> vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
> desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?
> 
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown  > wrote:
> 
>> On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:
>>> What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
>>> NVIS field day?
>> 
>> There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
>> totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
>> NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
>> wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
>> several years ago.
>> 
>> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
>> __
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>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Frequency Calibration

2021-12-17 Thread Fred Jensen 
I find that trying to match two beat notes when I can only hear one at a 
time to be hard, best I can do is maybe 10 - 15 Hz Hz depending on the 
frequency.


FWIW:  The Burdick Calibration Method [BCM] for the K3 is actually much 
easier to perform than has been suggested in this thread,it is 
incredibly accurate, and it works for me every time. A couple of 
possibly helpful hints:


1.  The WWV signal is somewhat complex.  In addition to the carrier and 
AM voice announcements, it transmits tones, 500 Hz and 600 Hz on some 
but not all alternate minutes, and 440 Hz as an hour marker.  
Additionally, a continuous time code in a slightly modified IRIG-H 
format is transmitted on a 100 Hz sub-carrier using both PWM and PM 
modulation.  The 500 and 600 Hz tones produce sidebands and it is very 
easy to attempt to zero beat one of those instead of the carrier, so 
choose the period :43 to :52 in each hour when there are no tones.


2.  Put the K3 into USB [or LSB], either will work fine.  Choose a time 
when at least one of the WWV frequencies is strong at your QTH.  Any WWV 
freq will work ... if you are OCD, 20 MHz may result in tiny 
improvements in calibration accuracy which you'll never notice in normal 
operation.


3.  Generally, wider DSP bandwidths will make the true zero beat more 
discernible so long as other adjacent signals are not present but it 
does depend on your hearing.


4.  Not all WWV frequencies are created equal.  If you have a P3, you 
can look at the spectrum of each of the signals.  For the 5, 10, and 15 
frequencies:  It appears these use 10 KW plate-modulated, transmitters, 
likely with Class C PA's and there is more distortion present than I 
expected from NIST/WWV. You can see the 100 Hz sub-carrier and the very 
close in sidebands from the IRIG-H time code, and the first sidebands of 
the 500/600 Hz tones.  Because of the distortion, the two 1st sidebands 
will be modulated by the 100 Hz sub-carrier and its sidebands.  You will 
also see the two sidebands from the 2nd harmonic of the tones at reduced 
level too, also modulated by the 100 Hz sub-carrier.  On 10 MHz, I can 
also see the 3rd harmonics of the tones clearly, and can sometimes make 
out the 4th.  It's a great demo of how to annoy your fellow hams with 
distortion in your transmitter. 


The 2.5 and 20 MHz signals use 2.5 KW transmitters that are apparently 
much more linear.  They exhibit the carrier, sub-carrier and its 
sidebands, and only the fundamental sideband of the tones.  This will 
help a little in finding exact zero-beat, however a strong overall WWV 
signal with minimal QSB is way more important.


5. Set your K3 for 1 Hz display resolution.  You may want to experiment 
between high and low counts/revolution of the knob, I find lower 
counts/rev works better but YMMV.  Don your headphones, AF gain up 
almost to the point of uncomfortable, set the freq display to exactly 
the WWV freq.  Then, tap MENU->CONFIG and tune VFO B to select the REF 
CAL menu entry.  The display will show a long number. Mine is 49.379682


6.  Now the fun part.  Carefully adjust VFO A to achieve zero beat.  V e 
r y  s l o w l y rock VFO A through zero beat. The tone will get too low 
to hear, and as you go thru ZB, the background noise will begin to 
"pulse", fast at first and then slower, until you can count the 
amplitude pulses, and then begin to speed back up as you move to the 
other side of ZB.  You want the point where the pulses are the furthest 
apart.  In my K3, I can get down to about 1 pulse/2 sec and then 
continuing one encoder step, it goes up to 1 pulse/sec.  True ZB is 
between those two encoder steps, I set mine to 1 pulse every 2 sec. Tap 
MENU, and call CQ on exactly the frequency of your choice.


You can switch between USB and LSB after you've found your ZB spot, it 
just inverts the process.  The whole BCM takes way longer to describe 
than to do.  I've run it a few times over the years and my K3 [S/N 642] 
has never varied more than about 4 Hz in that long Ref Cal number.


Ray wrote on 12/16/2021 11:04 PM:

Gents
Go to a WWV signal, (5.00)  on a Good Strong Frequency.
Place the Mode To Upper SSB, Listen to the Beat note Tone Freq,
Now Move the Mode to Lower SSB. Adjust the  Ref. Cal. Osc. until the Beat Note 
is the Exact Same Freq
On Lower SSB and Upper SSB.   Done
Ray WA6VAB  K3





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[Elecraft] K3 HM2 hand mike hum

2021-12-17 Thread David Hourdequin 
When I key the mike, my friends hear a hum on my signal that is not there when 
I use the Heil Proset K2/K3.  I hear the same thing when I monitor my signal on 
the KX3.

I’ve checked the connections at both ends and do not see anything amiss.  At 
the mike end, the ground wire is ‘floating’ and not attached to any terminal 
like it is at the plug end.  I do not see any severed wire/s anywhere.

Any ideas would be most appreciated.

Thanks so much,

David


NS4V
David R. Hourdequin, PE
P.O. Box 1399
Hayesville, NC. 28904
828-421-6216
d...@dremy.com





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Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread Julia Tuttle 
Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:
> > What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> > NVIS field day?
>
> There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
> totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
> NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
> wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
> several years ago.
>
> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread Jim Brown 

On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:

What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
NVIS field day?


There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is 
totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for 
NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half 
wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal 
several years ago.


http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread Henry Pollock - K4TMC 
Greg,

You might want to consider doing this within the Winter Field Day event.
There are 'indoor', 'outdoor' and 'home' categories.  The next event is Jan
29-30, 2022.  See www.winterfieldday.com for details.

I had fun operating the event in Jan 2021 from a portable beach house site
using a K3/100.  Due to a logging mistake on my part, my score did not get
reported.

73,
Henry - K4TMC


On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:14 AM Greg Herman  wrote:

> This is just a suggestion and forgive me if I’m not aware of something that
> already exists. What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> NVIS field day?
>
> As we all know Elecraft plays well with others, and along that theme
> everybody would be welcome to participate  in such a field day event. I’m
> guessing there would be a lot of KX twos and KX3 Yahoo Group all along with
> several other QRP radios and some 100 watt ones. Who knows Wayne might put
> a battery in a K4 and climb a hill.
>
> I have never made it in VIS contact but for emergency preparedness and just
> knowledge I would love to learn a lot about it and having others to
> participate would make it even easier to perhaps relay a message to across
> America
>
> My understanding brief as it is is it 80 meters is one of the better bands
> for NVIS
>
> Perhaps designate different segments of the band for the 0-9 groups
> depending on where you’re from that way you could listen in for your
> neighboring groups
>
> No stress, just good clean fun and an opportunity to learn.
>
> Comments and suggestions welcome
>
> Greg- KC9NRO
>
>
> --
> Have a Great day!
> Greg
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[Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

2021-12-17 Thread Greg Herman 
This is just a suggestion and forgive me if I’m not aware of something that
already exists. What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
NVIS field day?

As we all know Elecraft plays well with others, and along that theme
everybody would be welcome to participate  in such a field day event. I’m
guessing there would be a lot of KX twos and KX3 Yahoo Group all along with
several other QRP radios and some 100 watt ones. Who knows Wayne might put
a battery in a K4 and climb a hill.

I have never made it in VIS contact but for emergency preparedness and just
knowledge I would love to learn a lot about it and having others to
participate would make it even easier to perhaps relay a message to across
America

My understanding brief as it is is it 80 meters is one of the better bands
for NVIS

Perhaps designate different segments of the band for the 0-9 groups
depending on where you’re from that way you could listen in for your
neighboring groups

No stress, just good clean fun and an opportunity to learn.

Comments and suggestions welcome

Greg- KC9NRO


-- 
Have a Great day!
Greg
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