Re: [Elecraft] [OT] A dumb question about lightning

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

I have the first edition of the ARRL book.  What is significant about the 
second edition that is different from the earlier edition?
Russ, N3CO 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 7:14 PM, Jim Brown wrote: 
  On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> Please don't laugh at me; I'm a transplant from a region of the country with 
> essentially no lightning to a region where you have to worry about it quite a 
> bit.

The answer is, as KK9A said, to follow proper grounding and bonding to 
the letter. N0AX's ARRL Book on the topic, to which I contributed, is 
excellent. You want the Second Edition, published about a year ago. The 
book also references the slide deck for my tutorial talks. Don't let 
"audio" in the link fool you -- it's all about grounding and bonding in 
the shack for lightning protection and to minimize RFI.

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

On 7/28/2023 3:04 PM, Keith Trinity WE6R wrote:
 > Please, PLEASE disconnect your COMPUTER from your radio(s) if lightning
 > is in the area!
 >
 > Almost ALWAYS lightning damaged gear that comes in for repair, was hit
 > _thru the comm port!_
 > (lightning hits Cable/DSL lines).

This is the result of failure to follow proper grounding and bonding, 
and the failure of equipment mfrs to properly bond cable shields to the 
chassis at the point of entry. That failure to common to all ham mfrs, 
including Elecraft. This construction error was first addressed in 1994 
by a ham working in pro audio, Neil Muncy, ex-W3WJE (SK), and he called 
it "The Pin One Problem," because Pin 1 of the XLR connectors used to 
carry balanced audio is the shield contact. I addressed it beginning on 
page 5 of this RFI tutorial, which started out life in 2007.

k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

A major contributor to that lightning damage are the MOV-based surge 
protectors provide power to interconnected equipment. The MOVs short to 
the green wire; the IR drop in the green wire from that current spike 
raises the reference potential for equipment plugged into it, and the 
difference between that and the chassis of interconnected equipment 
that's grounded somewhere else fries the interconnected circuitry. We 
started seeing this in pro audio systems in the early '90s, with no 
antennas involved. The solution was elimination of those MOV protectors, 
replacing them with series-mode units that stored surge in a monster 
inductor, then discharged it slowly as a trickle after the strike had 
passed.

A colleague blew out the Ethernet ports of computers in his small design 
office from exactly this mechanism. Again, no antennas were involved.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Through-hole Replacement for K3 Q5 (2N7002)

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

 Hello Pete:
I have some thru-hole 2N7000 in my junk box.  I can mail a couple to you if you 
want.
Russ, N3CO
On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 09:57:50 AM EDT, Pete Smith N4ZR 
 wrote:  
 
 The original surface-mount part seems to be back in stock in the US, but 
I'm afraid that what I need is a through-hole equivalent, because the PC 
board where the old one was mounted is a wreck (damage from part 
failure, plus my ham-handed efforts to replace it). Google thinks a 
2N7000 will do, but I'd sure like to get an expert opinion.

-- 
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at .
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: [Elecraft] KBPF3A switching frequencies and performance

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

 Just an FYI, I found out what the problem is with my modified KBPF3.  I 
removed the added caps and signal levels returned to somewhat normal levels.  
Adding a cap to C2 didn't make sense and attenuated the signals. But Fig. 14 
shows adding a cap to C4.   Apparently the ham I bought this from used Rev. A1, 
June 24, 2015 instructions which have an error.  Figure 13 shows adding the 
0.1uF caps to C2, C3 and C6.  I downloaded Rev. A2 June 29, 2015 which 
correctly shows in fig. 13 to piggyback caps on C4, C3 and C6.  Problem solved!
Russ, N3CO
On Monday, April 19, 2021, 09:04:58 PM EDT, ab2tc  wrote:  
 
 Hi Russ,

Your response made *very* curious so I checked out my own K3S. I can confirm
the two switchover frequencies you mention (1700 and 3300kHz), but observe
at most a couple of dB change when crossing the boundaries. I use an
external panadapter (LP-PAN/NaP3 connected to IF-OUT) so I can easily see
the same stations and noise while tuning across the boundaries. On the
1700kHz boundary the signals are a couple, maybe 3dB stronger when below
1700kHz. So it sounds to me that the filters in your KBPF3A are not being
switched in when it is supposed to be used. The KBPF3 needs to be enabled
(set to "nor") in the configuration menu. Have you checked that?

Hmm, I neglected to carefully read the last part of your post. It sounds
like your KBPF3A might be working above 4210kHz so may be just the 2 lowest
bands are defective. If you look at the schematic you see that those two
bands use the same filter but with some components switched in and out by
another relay (K2). So that could narrow the problem down to one relay (K1)
not operating. Is this a *new* problem or has it been like this since you
got the K3 or installed the KBPF3A?

Knut - AB2TC


Elecraft mailing list wrote
> Hi Ben:
> You had me curious with your request.  I started to check my KBPF3
> (modified to the "A") and noticed something that now bothers me.  I tried
> going down from 160M and it appears that the switch over to the AM
> broadcast band occurs precisely at 1700,000  Kc.  When I tune to  1.69
> the relays click.  But the anomaly(?) I am seeing at the switchover point
> is a big drop in the signal level.  At my QTH during the daytime the
> nominal noise level at 1700.000 Kc is about S7.  When I switch to 1.69
> the noise level drops to S2.  At the high end the switchover occurs at
> 2109.999+ with a drop in the noise level from S9+10 to S3.  I don't use
> the K3 for listening to AMBCB but only in the case of checking my 160M 
> receiving loops with some stations high in the AM Band.  I checked on 80M
> and got similar results.  At the low side the switch occurred at 3299.999
> with a drop in the noise level from S5 to S2.  On the high side the
> switchover occurred at 4209.999+ but here the noise level increased from
> S4 to S6. I don't know if this helps you any on at least these 2 bands. 
> If I get the time I'll try to check the rest.  Now I'm bothered by the
> changes in signal levels at the switchover points (ignorance is bliss). 
>  I wonder if anyone else has ever noticed this or do I have an issue with
> my KBPF3?
> 
> Russ, N3CO
>    On Friday, April 16, 2021, 12:39:28 PM EDT, w4sc 

> w4sc@

>  wrote:  
>  
>  Looking for details of switch over frequencies and expected performance
> of the KBPF3A in its various bands, 
> 
> There is improvement in the BCB and below 500KHz with the KBPF3A enabled,
> however the other SW BCB bands I have tried are lacking.
> 
> Has anyone measured the performance of the KBPF3A?
> 
> Ben W4SC
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KBPF3A switching frequencies and performance

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

 Thanks Ben, I didn't think of that.  Now when the KBPF3 is not inst There is 
no difference in signal level when transitioning from 1.700 to 1.69.  And 
when I set the KBPF3 to nor (and reboot) there is a definite drop of 5-7 S 
units at the 1.700 transition point and also at the the 2.11 to 2.10999  
transition.  So there is definitely something in the low band signal path that 
is attenuating the signal.   I'll also do some checking at the other freqs.  I 
guess it's time to drag out the scope for some signal tracing which should be 
fun with SMDs and my old eyes.
Russ, N3CO
On Thursday, April 22, 2021, 09:09:47 AM EDT, w4sc  
wrote:  
 
 When setting installed/ NOT installed, make sure you reboot….
Ben

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] KBPF3A switching frequencies and performance

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

 Brian,Thanks for your information which got me thinking again about my 
situation.  I went back and set the config for the KBPF3 to "not inSt"  and 
found no difference at the signal levels at the switchover at 1700 Kc.  
Toggling back and forth between "not inSt" and "nor" I verified that there is 
no change in signal levels.  On the surface it appears that I purchased a 
broken used KBPF3.  Now I really have to take things apart to figure out what's 
wrong.
Russ, N3CO
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021, 07:23:37 PM EDT, Brian Hunt 
 wrote:  
 
 This thread also got my curiosity up.  Several years ago I upgraded my 
K3 #41xx with the KBPF3 including the 'A' mod of the capacitor on the RF 
board.  I never really checked it out except for the 630 meter coverage 
and transmit capability - both were as advertised.

Using a wideband noise generator (QRP Guys K7QO Noise Bridge) I tuned 
from about 500 kHz up to 30 Mhz and was able to identify the filter 
switch-over points (most of them anyway).  I measured the received noise 
level using the P3 dBm scale.  At none of the switch points was the 
noise level more than about 5 dB different from one side to the other.  
By continuously tuning and watching the display, it was apparent that 
the differences were mainly due to roll off of one filter segment or the 
other.  The gain was uniformly consistent across each of the ham bands 
but sometimes rolled off at the KBPF3 switch points.  The area between 
7.41 MHz and 8.4 MHz is kind of no-man's land due to the first IF being 
there.  At the IF frequency the gain was down >50 dB.

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

On 4/20/2021 08:57, w4sc wrote:
> A little back ground,,
>
> The effort started as a result of my using WWV at 15.00 MHz for 
> calibrating the reference oscillator.  Tuning from 14.99 to 15.00 MHz 
> I noticed a 9 to 12 Db drop in signal strength of WWV.
>
> ...
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Re: [Elecraft] KBPF3A switching frequencies and performance

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

 Hi Knut:
I couldn't tell you if this is a new problem as I didn't notice anything amiss 
until I started checking switchover frequencies to answer W4SC's question.  I 
verified that the KBPF3 is enabled in the config menu.   I bought the used 
KBPF3 about 4-5 years ago from another ham and don't remember who it was.  It 
came with the instructions to modify it to the "A" version.  I can't remember 
if it was already modified or if I did it myself.  I do know that I did install 
the 220uF capacitor on the main board of the K3.  Arrrgh, I guess I'll have to 
tear everything apart to check if the mods were done correctly before 
proceeding.  Thanks for your information.
Russ, N3CO
On Monday, April 19, 2021, 09:04:58 PM EDT, ab2tc  wrote:  
 
 Hi Russ,

Your response made *very* curious so I checked out my own K3S. I can confirm
the two switchover frequencies you mention (1700 and 3300kHz), but observe
at most a couple of dB change when crossing the boundaries. I use an
external panadapter (LP-PAN/NaP3 connected to IF-OUT) so I can easily see
the same stations and noise while tuning across the boundaries. On the
1700kHz boundary the signals are a couple, maybe 3dB stronger when below
1700kHz. So it sounds to me that the filters in your KBPF3A are not being
switched in when it is supposed to be used. The KBPF3 needs to be enabled
(set to "nor") in the configuration menu. Have you checked that?

Hmm, I neglected to carefully read the last part of your post. It sounds
like your KBPF3A might be working above 4210kHz so may be just the 2 lowest
bands are defective. If you look at the schematic you see that those two
bands use the same filter but with some components switched in and out by
another relay (K2). So that could narrow the problem down to one relay (K1)
not operating. Is this a *new* problem or has it been like this since you
got the K3 or installed the KBPF3A?

Knut - AB2TC


Elecraft mailing list wrote
> Hi Ben:
> You had me curious with your request.  I started to check my KBPF3
> (modified to the "A") and noticed something that now bothers me.  I tried
> going down from 160M and it appears that the switch over to the AM
> broadcast band occurs precisely at 1700,000  Kc.  When I tune to  1.69
> the relays click.  But the anomaly(?) I am seeing at the switchover point
> is a big drop in the signal level.  At my QTH during the daytime the
> nominal noise level at 1700.000 Kc is about S7.  When I switch to 1.69
> the noise level drops to S2.  At the high end the switchover occurs at
> 2109.999+ with a drop in the noise level from S9+10 to S3.  I don't use
> the K3 for listening to AMBCB but only in the case of checking my 160M 
> receiving loops with some stations high in the AM Band.  I checked on 80M
> and got similar results.  At the low side the switch occurred at 3299.999
> with a drop in the noise level from S5 to S2.  On the high side the
> switchover occurred at 4209.999+ but here the noise level increased from
> S4 to S6. I don't know if this helps you any on at least these 2 bands. 
> If I get the time I'll try to check the rest.  Now I'm bothered by the
> changes in signal levels at the switchover points (ignorance is bliss). 
>  I wonder if anyone else has ever noticed this or do I have an issue with
> my KBPF3?
> 
> Russ, N3CO
>    On Friday, April 16, 2021, 12:39:28 PM EDT, w4sc 

> w4sc@

>  wrote:  
>  
>  Looking for details of switch over frequencies and expected performance
> of the KBPF3A in its various bands, 
> 
> There is improvement in the BCB and below 500KHz with the KBPF3A enabled,
> however the other SW BCB bands I have tried are lacking.
> 
> Has anyone measured the performance of the KBPF3A?
> 
> Ben W4SC
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KBPF3A switching frequencies and performance

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

 Hi Ben:
You had me curious with your request.  I started to check my KBPF3 (modified to 
the "A") and noticed something that now bothers me.  I tried going down from 
160M and it appears that the switch over to the AM broadcast band occurs 
precisely at 1700,000  Kc.  When I tune to  1.69 the relays click.  But the 
anomaly(?) I am seeing at the switchover point is a big drop in the signal 
level.  At my QTH during the daytime the nominal noise level at 1700.000 Kc is 
about S7.  When I switch to 1.69 the noise level drops to S2.  At the high 
end the switchover occurs at 2109.999+ with a drop in the noise level from 
S9+10 to S3.  I don't use the K3 for listening to AMBCB but only in the case of 
checking my 160M  receiving loops with some stations high in the AM Band.  I 
checked on 80M and got similar results.  At the low side the switch occurred at 
3299.999 with a drop in the noise level from S5 to S2.  On the high side the 
switchover occurred at 4209.999+ but here the noise level increased from S4 to 
S6. I don't know if this helps you any on at least these 2 bands.  If I get the 
time I'll try to check the rest.  Now I'm bothered by the changes in signal 
levels at the switchover points (ignorance is bliss).   I wonder if anyone else 
has ever noticed this or do I have an issue with my KBPF3?

Russ, N3CO
On Friday, April 16, 2021, 12:39:28 PM EDT, w4sc  
wrote:  
 
 Looking for details of switch over frequencies and expected performance of the 
KBPF3A in its various bands, 

There is improvement in the BCB and below 500KHz with the KBPF3A enabled, 
however the other SW BCB bands I have tried are lacking.

Has anyone measured the performance of the KBPF3A?

Ben W4SC

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] Current Draw on 20M

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

After reading your numbers here I was curious since my K3 is the same vintage 
as yours, serial 732, Apr'08.  I did a quick check on 20M and I am reading 
15.5A, @13.5V (on my Astron 20M meters) at 100W into a 50 ohm dummy load.  I 
checked other bands and read the following: 160M-15.5A, 75M-14A, 40M-14A, 
15M-13.6A, 10M-13A.  All readings were in the tune position using a LP-100.  I 
don't think the higher reading on 20 (or 160) is really significant.

Russ, N3CO
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 1:55 PM, Mike Maloney wrote:   
FWIW, my old K3 (Nov'08) only pulls 17.8Adc at 12.5V for 100W into 50ohm dummy 
load at 14MHz.  
Seems to follow your PA temp is gonna run hotter also.  WHY such poor 
efficiency Elecraft, (Wayne) ?
73,Mike, AC5P


    On Friday, June 19, 2020, 12:03:45 PM CDT, Randy Farmer 
 wrote:  
 
 Mine does exactly the same thing. I even ran it through factory service 
to be sure there wasn't a problem with the LPF module that might be 
causing trouble. They calibrated it and returned it with a clean bill of 
health. It still draws significantly more current on 20 than on any 
other band.

73...
Randy, W8FN

On 6/19/2020 8:46 AM, Rich wrote:
> I just received my K3S back from repair and all seemed OK. However it 
> appears to draw much more current on 20M than any other band.   22 - 
> 24 amps.  I have tried two different 20m antennas and a dummy load.
>
> All other bands are 20 amps or lower.  Some as low at 17amps.
>
> Power Supply voltage per K3s display 14.0v standby and 13.3 on TX
>
> First off is this actually something of concern?
>
> I hate to do a calibration as it was just done by Elecraft service two 
> weeks ago.
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Re: [Elecraft] Low Power Output on 160 and 6 meters

[Russ Tobolic via Elecraft]

56" for the original cable is quite long. What gauge cable are you using?
Russ, N3CO

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:05 AM, Everett via 
Elecraft wrote:   Hi Jim,
You brought up a good point that I had not thought of and that is the voltage 
drop at the K3S itself. So I set up the voltage reading a the VFO B window and 
noticed that the voltage had dropped down to 12.1V when I keyed down, but the 
power supply said 13.7V at key down. So I shortened the power cable, by 32" and 
now it is 24" long. Now I see 13.1V at VFO B window and 100 watt on 160 meters 
and 105 watts on 6 meters. I increased the power supply voltage to 14V and now 
I see 13.3V at VFO B window, on key down and now 105 watts out on 160 and 110 
out on 6 meters.
So to make a long story short, the K3S will put out over 100 watts on 160 and 6 
meters if your power supply voltage is at 13.8 volts and you keep the power 
cord short. The additional 32" of power cord dropped the voltage by 1 volt on 
key down.
Everett N4CY


In a message dated 6/25/2019 7:50:32 AM Central Standard Time, 
hamsh...@n4st.com writes:

I see the same output powers on my K3S.
Key down voltage is 13.4 volts on the VFO B display at maximum power out.
Elecraft offered to upgrade my PA chain for $100, but I'm not concerned
about ~1dB and is within spec for 6m anyway.
Glad that diode is in there.  I tested its function once.

_ 
73,
Jim - N4ST


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 08:31
To: EVERETT SHARP ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low Power Output on 160 and 6 meters

Everett,

What is your power supply voltage during transmit at 100 watts as measured
with the Alternate VFO B display?

With a solid 13.8 volt power supply voltage, you should see no lower than
12.7 volts (there is a diode drop inside the K3).

If lower, check the connections in the power cable for tightness.
The K3 power cable should run direct from the power supply.  Rigrunner and
other DC power distribution boxes can be reason for excessive voltage drop.

You can increase the power supply voltage up to above 14 volts to help - do
not exceed 15 volts.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/24/2019 6:51 PM, EVERETT SHARP via Elecraft wrote:
> I have three K3S and over the week-end I connected each of them to my Bird
watt meter, with a Dummy load. Each of K3S were updated to the current
Firmware and each had the 5 and 50 watt calibrations run.
> 
> What I found was all 3 showed from 80 to 90 watts output on 160 meters 
> and on 6  meters I saw 75 to 90 watts. All other bands showed 
> typically
> 105 to 110 watts. However, one of the K3S showed exactly 100 watts on all
bands except for the lower power on 160 and 6 meters.
> 
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